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That should be up to the people of each state to decide, not the federal government. That's Roe v. Wade is bad law, it removes power from the states and the people.

Marijuana is outlawed, but you wouldn't know if if you've ever been to a Phish show. Laws don't stop people from doing something, it makes them hide their actions. Outlawing abortion won't stop the practice, it will simply take it out of the hands of doctors and give it to criminals in back rooms. No sterilization, no legal protection if the procedure is botched, nothing. It wouldn't save the lives of infants, they would still die and more than likely take the mother with them.

Education and accessible contraceptives is the best solution. Plus it would cost far less educating kids on how to avoid pregnancies and stay safe rather than spending billions trying to enforce a law and punish those who will break it.
Yes, Abortion should be against the law, except in extreme cases when it is necessary to save the life of the mother.

Let me say, i used to think the last part of my statement above was a red herring. But recently i know of a fine Christian family who had to face this. The mother was 4 months pregnant and was diagnosed with leukemia. The treatment she had to undergo would kill the baby.

I can forsee the place when there is a necessity to allow it in extreme cases.


The time to choose is before you have sex, afterward that choice involes the life of an innocent person.
Ironic that a liberal will always take the side of weak and defenseless people except when it come to the weakest and most defenseless. They give a child status "fetus" to justify what they are actually terminating - a human life.

How many Einsteins, e.e. cummings, and yes even Obamas are among the 40,000,000 lives terminated. Obama himself on conception had a greater chance of being aborted than being carried to full term. 12% of the population accounts for 50% of abortions so whether or not it was designed in such as way its a silent genocide of blacks.
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Originally posted by meanasasnake:
I really don't think most people need the Federal and State governments telling individuals how to make private health care decisions. I also don't need the next door neighbor or the fundie down the street telling me how to handle my life. Abortions are reasonably regulated like all health care proceedures.



You say >> [QUOTE]Originally posted by meanasasnake:
I really don't think most people need the Federal and State governments telling individuals how to make private health care decisions.

Would that be true if it was Aids and HIV ?
Outlawed, no. Used as lazy birth control, absolutely no.
I think that an age limit should be in place if it is elective, at least 21, (which may already be in place, I don't know)and before any woman has an abortion she should be counseled and referred to an adoption agency. The baby does not have to die because someone was stupid or lazy.
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Originally posted by Ron Pheixising:
Ironic that a liberal will always take the side of weak and defenseless people except when it come to the weakest and most defenseless. They give a child status "fetus" to justify what they are actually terminating - a human life.

How many Einsteins, e.e. cummings, and yes even Obamas are among the 40,000,000 lives terminated. Obama himself on conception had a greater chance of being aborted than being carried to full term. 12% of the population accounts for 50% of abortions so whether or not it was designed in such as way its a silent genocide of blacks.


It is equally ironic how a "conservative" cares more about a fetus than the children who are already here and in need of everything from healthcare to a place to live. Once the unwanted child is born, the "conservative" really views them as a drag on the capitalist state.
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Originally posted by Cupid:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by meanasasnake:
I really don't think most people need the Federal and State governments telling individuals how to make private health care decisions. I also don't need the next door neighbor or the fundie down the street telling me how to handle my life. Abortions are reasonably regulated like all health care proceedures.



You say >>
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
I really don't think most people need the Federal and State governments telling individuals how to make private health care decisions.

Would that be true if it was Aids and HIV ?


I don't get it. Any adult individual can refuse treatment, or seek it. Same with someone who has cancer. What does this have to do with self determination and the right of the individual to make private healthcare decisions. I currently am working on a case study of an individual in Birmingham dying with AIDS who is refusing treatment. That is that adult individuals right.
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Originally posted by FloTownDown08:
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Abortion should remain legal - and it probably will.

I can't imagine ANYONE who thinks a woman should NOT have the option of abortion in cases of rape, incest and to protect the life of the mother.


I agree meanie! THIS is a WOMANS CHOICE! & No one else's! Bottom Line!


I agree, just allow the woman to live long enough to at least learn to speak so she can make her choice! I guess the little men just have to die.
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Originally posted by DEENALYNNE:
Murder is illegal. Why should it be legal for the convenience of the ignorant and uncaring? If a woman murders her baby before it is born it is abortion. If she waits till after she gets the chair. Makes NO sense.


Do you support the death penalty? Or the war in Iraq? I bet you do. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?
quote:
Murder is illegal. Why should it be legal for the convenience of the ignorant and uncaring?


Excellent. So what shall we do to the women who abort their babies? Make your opinion known by voting in this poll: Link

You know, there is no statue of limitations on murder so all the women who have had abortions in the past are subject to your rule.
A better question would be: Why is abortion needed?

If we are going to have relations, and are not going to consider the possibility of what can happen. Should the created life suffer? Should what we do to get a moment of pleasure justify destroying life? Link

Now you might think the above link is a little extreme. But let's face it. This goes on everyday in our abortion clinics. And as long as we look the other way, because we do not want to face the reality of it. It will continue and get worse.

Question: What if that women who had 8 babies the other day, would have aborted all eight?

1 life vs 8 lives?

Like one preacher said: You know why we will never find cures for the diseases that kill us? We probably keep aborting the people smart enough to have grown up and found such cures.

Example: What if Darwin or Einstein had been aborted? We may not have evolution, or the theories Einstein thought up. How many great minds have we aborted when we abort over 3 million babies a year? Do you think there was only one Einstein?

So through abortion we may never find the answers we need and therefore create or own doom for a moment of pleasure.
Last edited by ikester7579
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Originally posted by George Sand:
quote:
Originally posted by DEENALYNNE:
Murder is illegal. Why should it be legal for the convenience of the ignorant and uncaring? If a woman murders her baby before it is born it is abortion. If she waits till after she gets the chair. Makes NO sense.


Do you support the death penalty? Or the war in Iraq? I bet you do. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?


There is a difference between shedding innocent blood, and punishing those who do it for pleasure or hate.
quote:
Example: What if Darwin or Einstein had been aborted? We may not have evolution, or the theories Einstein thought up. How many great minds have we aborted when we abort over 3 million babies a year? Do you think there was only one Einstein?


Actually, it would not have mattered with Darwin. Darwin kept his findings secret for many years. He kept refining his findings for many years. The only reason he published the book was because Alfred Russle Wallace was about to publish a similar theory ([Source).

This caused Darwin to publish his theory first. Even without those two, Darwin acknowledged that others had smaller threads about evolution. A letter Darwin wrote about the "Theory of Natural Selection" was to show that it did not really matter if he or Wallace had made the discovery. It was a moot point.

So, Darwin is not a good example.

As for Einstein, I don't really know.
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptik:
For the purposes of this question, assume the question addresses "uncomplicated" abortions only.


Yes. I find it barbaric and sick. I don't need one Bible verse to come to this conclusion.

It will more than likely remain legal.


There ya go, Skeptic. That's just two sentences. Did you understand my stance there?
leave it legal. I have yet to hear of ANYONE being FORCED to have an abortion,simply because it is on the books as a legal procedure.

And yet while they were illegal they were being done left and right,under everyones nose. So what does making them illegal ACTUALLY do, help those opposed sleep better at night? Sure does not stop abortions from being done.
quote:
Originally posted by micah_freethinker:
quote:
Example: What if Darwin or Einstein had been aborted? We may not have evolution, or the theories Einstein thought up. How many great minds have we aborted when we abort over 3 million babies a year? Do you think there was only one Einstein?


Actually, it would not have mattered with Darwin. Darwin kept his findings secret for many years. He kept refining his findings for many years. The only reason he published the book was because Alfred Russle Wallace was about to publish a similar theory ([Source).

This caused Darwin to publish his theory first. Even without those two, Darwin acknowledged that others had smaller threads about evolution. A letter Darwin wrote about the "Theory of Natural Selection" was to show that it did not really matter if he or Wallace had made the discovery. It was a moot point.

So, Darwin is not a good example.

As for Einstein, I don't really know.


Actually, Darwin's idea has religious roots. It can be traced all the way back to Egyptian religions. They taught that man came from animals. And that the gods resembled this by being half man half animal. This is why the wall paintings and statues of their gods were always half man half animal.

Even Wiccans teach this and it also can be traced back before Darwin. The higher up witches, with Satanic powers are supposed to be able to do animal morphing. Where they can change their appearance to look like certain animals right before your eyes. Just google witch morphing.

So man coming from animals is nothing new. Darwin just made it famous and sound more viable. It alo explains why out of every theory that exists. Evolution is the only one that competes with religion. Gravity or electricity does not compete with religion because they have no religious roots. Evolution does.

And if you still don't believe that evolution is a religion, I suggest you read this page: Link and the pages that follow.
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
leave it legal. I have yet to hear of ANYONE being FORCED to have an abortion,simply because it is on the books as a legal procedure.

And yet while they were illegal they were being done left and right,under everyones nose. So what does making them illegal ACTUALLY do, help those opposed sleep better at night? Sure does not stop abortions from being done.


Using that logic, maybe we should legalize murder and child molestation as well. It's also being done under everyone's nose.

Do you know why laws need to exist? It's the same reason a lock is used to protect someone's belongings. A thief will break the lock, a honest person will not. But have no lock and everyone steals your stuff. So the lock, like the law, keeps most pople from doing what should not be done.

Did you know that there are people out there that use abortion as birth control? They have unprotected sex all the time, and if they become with child, they abort it. And they do it over and over and over. There are even records of these people getting abortions up to three times a year.

And people wonder how 3 million babies get aborted every year. It's not hard to reach that number when people go abort babies as if they were taking a dump.
have you ever used birth control? better read your Bible
“Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, The fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one’s youth. Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them.” Psalm 127:3-5
and lets not forget Genesis 1:28

you are using statistics(or numbers) which are available because abortion is legal. How many were done when it was illegal?
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
have you ever used birth control? better read your Bible
“Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, The fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one’s youth. Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them.” Psalm 127:3-5
and lets not forget Genesis 1:28

you are using statistics(or numbers) which are available because abortion is legal. How many were done when it was illegal?


Using that logic, let's make murder and child molestation legal. That way we can know the numbers of how many time it happens. and then ask the same question you did about how many times did it happem when it was illegal. Heck, let's do that with all laws and let all prisoners free. Everybody just do what they want because we want to apply the same logic we use for abotion for everything else.
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Originally posted by ikester7579:
And if you still don't believe that evolution is a religion, I suggest you read this page: Link and the pages that follow.


Young Earth Creation Headquarters is a very bias source.

I have never heard the argument that evolution goes all the way back to Egypt. But what you are saying is absurd. Witch Morphing has nothing to do with evolution. It makes a good story, but it does not really exist. Have you ever seen witch morphing?

Witches don't necessarily worship Satan. Even historically, they were just Pagan cults. Pagan does not mean Satanic. They do worship different gods or many gods. For instance, many of them today worship the Goddess.

There are many Biologist who are Christians and they don't have a conflict between Evolution and Christianity.

You make this as an argument that either you have the religion of Christianity or you have the religion of Evolution. Those are not mutually exclusive--both can exist in one person.
quote:
There ya go, Skeptic. That's just two sentences. Did you understand my stance there?


(The sentences were, "Yes. I find (abortion) barbaric and sick. I don't need one Bible verse to come to this conclusion. "

Yup, that's pretty clear. (ignoring for the moment that you also said, that these decision are sometimes "complicated" which kind of muddies the water).

So you obviously (if given the chance) would force a woman to deliver a rapist's or her own father's baby. You must also be against birth control pills and "morning after" treatments. You also must insist that women carry to full term fetuses who have severe mental and physical deformities and, of course, no exceptions for the life of the mother. After all, we can't stop barbarism by inflicting even more barbarism, can we?

I'm glad you clear all that up for us, Joy.
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptik:
For the purposes of this question, assume the question addresses "uncomplicated" abortions only.


Yes. I find it barbaric and sick. I don't need one Bible verse to come to this conclusion.

It will more than likely remain legal.


There ya go, Skeptic. That's just two sentences. Did you understand my stance there?


My bad. I should have said two LINES. I saw the two lines, was in a hurry. Whatever.

I pulled the other thread up where I explained my stance in detail when you asked me about it. Smiler

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