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Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion begun last week by Chick, titled "Why Should Someone Be Banned?" -- the focus began to wander from that original issue and became a discussion basically questioning if Christian believers should evangelize and if believers should refute false teachings brought to the Religion Forum by false and/or cult religion followers.

In an earlier post within that discussion, I wrote, "I will say this -- I wish more conservative Christians would break one habit -- that of being too passive.  That is the one complaint I have long had with conservative Christians -- their reluctance to speak up and defend our faith in public.   To those who do, I offer a big 'Atta boy!' or 'Atta girl!' for your efforts in sharing the Gospel with others -- and for your efforts in refuting false and cult teachings."

And, Frog challenged me on this, "I have met very few 'conservative Christians' (I mean this as what your definition is, apparently, and not Christians in general, since I assume you mean those who feel as you do) who were too passive, or even passive at all.  The ones who "speak up and defend our faith in public" -- "share the Gospel with others" and make "efforts in refuting false and cult teachings" -- often steam roll others' beliefs and turn people off to religion.

My response to Frog was, "You have hit the nail on the head!  That is exactly what I am trying to do -- turn people OFF religions --  and get people turned ON to having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.   If I can do that for even one -- I have been successful as an evangelist."

Then, Chick asks me, "Bill, what about that one person you lead away from eternal life in Christ due to your judgmental ways, and your misinterpretation of scriptures?  You bring it across as (if) your belief is the only correct belief."

No, Chick, the Bible is the only true, infallible source of belief and faith.  I only try to interpret it to the best of my abilities.   And, I consult the teachings of many others who have much more knowledge than me -- to arrive at what I consider to be a good interpretation of any given Scripture passage or verse.

Even though I cannot say that I have a full understanding of all the Bible (in this life, I will never have a full understanding) -- I do believe that my Biblical Christian Doctrines, i.e., my Statement of Faith, is right on target.  And, my Statement of Faith is based 100% on the Bible:

1. The Deity of Jesus Christ -- God incarnate -- fully a man; yet, fully God.
2. The Trinity -- God eternally existing; manifested (revealed) in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
3. The Bible -- Is the inspired Written Word of God and is the sole authority for Christian faith, salvation, and our Christian life.
4. Salvation by Grace -- By the grace of God you are saved, through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus nothing else.
5. The Resurrection of Christ -- He rose from the dead, that we may also be resurrected into eternal life.
6. The Gospel -- The birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ according to Scripture.
7.  Heaven and Hell -- Both are real places and are the only two eternal destinations available to all mankind.

Chick, even though you tell us that you are no longer a believer -- can you tell me that you disagree with any of these?

If so, which ones -- and why?  To just say that you do not believe a statement, has no foundation -- unless you can tell me what you do not believe, why you do not believe it, and what source of information you based that understanding upon.

To say you don't believe any one, or all, of those statements -- just because you do not like me; well, that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.

Chick, you tell me, "Bill, what about that one person you lead away from eternal life in Christ due to your judgmental ways, and your misinterpretation of scriptures?"

Chick, that is a very serious claim, for we are speaking of a person's eternal life.  If you are saying this just as a way to cast a stone at me -- that is fine.  We will just chalk up one point for Chick.

However, if you are serious and honestly know of someone who has been led astray -- you and I both owe this person a chance to know the truth.

So far, I do not know of anyone I have led astray.  If you do, please tell me.  In this request, I am extremely serious.   Now, I am not talking about someone who tells us, "When I was a teenager, I went to church -- but, all those hypocrites drove me away."   I am speaking of someone who is, or was, a serious seeker -- or a true Christian -- who has turned away from God because of my writings.  I cannot express to you how serious this is -- if it is true.

This I can share with you.  Over the years that I have been writing my Friends Ministry eNewsletter, I have had folks tell me that they had begun to pull away from their faith -- but, reading my e-mails helped them get back on track.  I have Friends who tell me they have shared my writings with other friends -- for they feel that my writing can help their friends.

I have had people request my PowerPoint presentations created for Bible studies.  The most recent, a pastor Friend I have not seen in a few years.  He is on my mail list and recently asked to have the presentations e-mailed to him to share with his church fellowship.  That, I will do for anyone who wants these Bible studies:  "Inaugural Study - We Believe" -- "It All Began With Creation"  -- "End Times Bible Study - Week One" -- and "End Times Bible Study - Week Two."

Chick, in the 20 plus years I have been doing Christian writing -- I know of no one that I have led away from or drove away from the church.   But, sincerely, if you do know of such a person -- please tell me.   And, I will request that you Private Message me and I will give you a way that person can contact me -- or you can give me a way to contact that person -- to allow us to clear up any misunderstanding.

Believe me, Chick, a person's eternal life is NOT something either you or I want to play with -- so, if you honestly know such a person, please put me in contact with him/her -- or have that person Private Message me.   I will truly appreciate it.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

1 - Will Work For Jesus_Outline-2

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Bill says:

However, if you are serious and honestly know of someone who has been led astray -- you and I both owe this person a chance to know the truth.

_______________

I believe RoadPuppy claims that you destroyed any possibility of him being a believer, and firmly established him as an atheist.  And as far as that goes, I used to believe all those Baptists I grew up with were okay, but now I understand that they belong to a very misguided cult, at least based on what you write here.

From my initial post:

 

So far, I do not know of anyone I have led astray.   If you do, please tell me.   In this request, I am extremely serious.   Now, I am not talking about someone who tells us, "When I was a teenager, I went to church -- but, all those hypocrites drove me away."   I am speaking of someone who is, or was, a serious seeker -- or a true Christian -- who has turned away from God because of my writings.   I cannot express to you how serious this is -- if it is true.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

From my initial post:

 

So far, I do not know of anyone I have led astray.   If you do, please tell me.   In this request, I am extremely serious.   Now, I am not talking about someone who tells us, "When I was a teenager, I went to church -- but, all those hypocrites drove me away."   I am speaking of someone who is, or was, a serious seeker -- or a true Christian -- who has turned away from God because of my writings.   I cannot express to you how serious this is -- if it is true.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Since Christianity is a false cult, this is a really stupid topic.

quote:    Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

I'll let RP speak for himself if he chooses to even read this stupid thread, but I'm pretty sure he has stated that he came here looking for religion, and you drove him to atheism, Bill.  Go ahead and pretend that it doesn't fit your criteria.


Hi Crusty,

 

I have no doubt that he, and you, came here looking for a religion or two.  But, what we Christian believers speak of is a "relationship" with Jesus Christ.   So, you can keep your "religions" -- and we will stay in our "relationship."

 

But, keep an eye out for those six strong men -- for most likely they will make sure you do visit church at least one more time.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
But, keep an eye out for those six strong men -- for most likely they will make sure you do visit church at least one more time.

 =========

What a wicked, cruel comment.  What kid of **** Christian are you anyway? And who the hell made you the Judge? Off to the Google to find our who this idiot is. 

No, my religion does not teach that we must refute false teachings.  There is much in the bible that can be interpreted. Church of Christers don't think Baptists are going to heaven. Baptists don't think Catholics and Mormon's are certainly going to hell, right?

My question is, Who are we to judge?  One's salvation is a personal matter. If the atheists don't want to be saved then who the hell are we to force it on them? Really, there is some sickening stuff going on here from supposed "Christians." I almost want to apologize to the atheists. We aren't all morons.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
But, keep an eye out for those six strong men -- for most likely they will make sure you do visit church at least one more time.

 =========

Originally Posted by Frankly:

What a wicked, cruel comment.  What kid of **** Christian are you anyway? And who the hell made you the Judge? Off to the Google to find our who this idiot is. 

___________________________

That's Bill's MO. He thinks he's doing it for God, & to earn that crown he thinks he will get someday.

Pitiful, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Frankly:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
But, keep an eye out for those six strong men -- for most likely they will make sure you do visit church at least one more time.

 =========

What a wicked, cruel comment.  What kid of **** Christian are you anyway? And who the hell made you the Judge? Off to the Google to find our who this idiot is. 


I suggest lots of scrolling so you don't end up taking that energy off with you.  Since there is no ignore, scrolling might save you from taking the bait and wanting to say the bolded part after many of Bill's posts.  It is all bait to keep things stirred is all.

Originally Posted by Frankly:

No, my religion does not teach that we must refute false teachings.  There is much in the bible that can be interpreted. Church of Christers don't think Baptists are going to heaven. Baptists don't think Catholics and Mormon's are certainly going to hell, right?

My question is, Who are we to judge?  One's salvation is a personal matter. If the atheists don't want to be saved then who the hell are we to force it on them? Really, there is some sickening stuff going on here from supposed "Christians." I almost want to apologize to the atheists. We aren't all morons.


My view is bolded and you said it well.  If we all aren't trying to force things on each other we might be actually able to discuss topics without nastiness and arguing.  All that does is turn people away from whatever opinion a person might have.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Chick, even though you tell us that you are no longer a believer
Chick, you tell me, "Bill, what about that one person you lead away from eternal life in Christ due to your judgmental ways, and your misinterpretation of scriptures?"
Chick, that is a very serious claim, for we are speaking of a person's eternal life.  If you are saying this just as a way to cast a stone at me
However, if you are serious and honestly know of someone who has been led astray
So far, I do not know of anyone I have led astray. 
Chick, in the 20 plus years I have been doing Christian writing -- I know of no one that I have led away from or drove away from the church. 
Bill

________________________________

There you go again, twisting my words saying that I've told you I'm no longer a believer. What is it with you that you have this need to do that???

 

Do you not think it’s a serious claim when you get on this forum preaching things the way you see it, the way you believe it? The Judgment, the hate, the lies? You speak it as though people are to believe that the Almighty himself handed you those words. If I cast a stone as you call it, it’s the truth as I see it.

 

You run people off, Bill, by using fear. Why would anyone want to be part of something that has fear as it’s basis?  I didn’t say I knew someone personally that you had run off, & I certainly didn’t say from church. See how you twist words? In those 20 plus years you’ve been writing, (I’m not impressed) if you had run someone off, do you really think they would contact you & tell you that? Do you truly come against people in your writing as you do here? Do you use your silly cartoons to try & make those people look stupid? Do you talk down to them like you do here? I really doubt it.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by frog:

Scrolling...scrolling....keep scrolling.  Do not bite the bait.  Scrolling.

___________________________

frog, don't you feel special that Bill dedicated a whole topic to you & I?


Oh sure..special...lol.  But since everyone here can read and this was all in another thread there isn't anything new to say on the same topic, so I am scrolling away and happy about it  

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

From my initial post:

 

So far, I do not know of anyone I have led astray.   If you do, please tell me.   In this request, I am extremely serious.   Now, I am not talking about someone who tells us, "When I was a teenager, I went to church -- but, all those hypocrites drove me away."   I am speaking of someone who is, or was, a serious seeker -- or a true Christian -- who has turned away from God because of my writings.   I cannot express to you how serious this is -- if it is true.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill


Bill, It is not up to you to lead anyone anywhere. God said he has put his word into every heart and every mind. Once they hear the word, God will see that his will is manifest in their lives and it is up to them to accept that Jesus Christ is the only salvation they will ever have. If they choose to accept then the Holy Spirit will dwell inside them and guide them every step of every second of their lives. I personally don't know how I ever functioned without his guidance. 

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

I'll let RP speak for himself if he chooses to even read this stupid thread, but I'm pretty sure he has stated that he came here looking for religion, and you drove him to atheism, Bill.  Go ahead and pretend that it doesn't fit your criteria.

Hmm... Well actually, Crusty...my mind was pretty much made up already before I ever came to this forum.  Heh. Methinks ya give ol' BeeG too much credit.   Don't want his head to swell up too much. I dunno the pressure rating onnat sucker and I'd hate to hafta clean up one helluva mess should it burst.

 

For BeeG to be able to influence me to change any of my beliefs or principles that I stand on-he'd hafta matter to me a great deal.  His thoughts and words would have to hold some significance or importance to me.  Since they don't and he really doesn't matter to me one bit-He cannot affect me in any way, shape, or form.  BeeG is all noise and I've already stated many times why I believe he is constantly making that noise as often and as loudly as he can.

 

I reached my own conclusion regarding the existence of any kind of god-using my own experiences and logic and knowledge of the way things are and the way things work gained through self-education out of sheer curiosity.

 

However-I had never-EVER seen a 'religion' forum at a newspaper site before (Where I'm from there's lots of believers-but nobody gives a s#!&(Not even OTHER BELIEVERS! THE HORRORS!!!!!1) and leaves everybody else alone about it. Lot more atheists, too. Nobody cares one way or the other and we nawthunuhs don't shoot each other because we believe different things. Y'know.... Live and let live and all...)

 

Anyway, Like any good scientist would do-(OK, so I'm a simple scientist but I experiment nonetheless sometimes cause, hey..I could be wrong, but I figure I'm not..) I decided to drop in and ask some questions regarding the belief in a god.  Like I've said before-I figure that if I could figure out WHY people believe in a god-then I could use that information to try and figure out which particular flavor of Kool-Aid (belief) might make some sense.

 

BIIIIIG disappointment on that score. None of it still makes any sense to me-people have proven to me that they believe what they believe because they were taught to-and then they spend the rest of their lives trying to justify believing in what they were taught to believe until it all becomes rote and so 'normal' to them that 'it just IS and always was' and they no longer question it. (People remember best what they hear last and if they hear it ALL THE TIME, (every Sunday!/Wednesday!/Whatever!) relentlessly-it becomes truth because they can't remember anything else anymore. Bless their lil' hearts...)

 

It hasn't been a total loss hanging out here, though.  I've furthered my knowledge of human nature through experiences here.  What makes you people tick and how you keep ticking.

 

I must say that with a few exceptions-the southern version of human nature is very different than the northern version of it I've lived most of my life with.  Reading (listening, and yes...to me, reading posts in a forum is the same as standing in front of someone listening because there's real people behind those screen names who come back often and interact with me.  I'm the exact same way in real life as I am here in this forum. You can b'lee dat s#!t. Ask Jank or A. Rob. They'll tell ya.).

 

Met some cool people in person because of this forum. Good folks-believers and non.  Folks who don't judge me because of who I am or what my views or beliefs are.

 

Then again there are the Bill Grays and other automatons that just spewed at me-and then judged me harshly (and if you think condemning somebody to eternal dangnation (The "first blood" I keep mentioning) isn't harsh-whether ya believe in it or not-it's harsh to those who do it.  Even though I don't believe it-I KNOW what they MEANT.  Those folks just re-affirmed my belief that religion is just another crock of crap designed to control crowds and make money and make people who would otherwise go unnoticed in this world feel validated and powerful and knowledgeable by preaching it.  (Up nawth-I have to actively LOOK for a preacher.....Here I can't turn around without tripping over at least four of them.  When I look at the Shoals on Googley Earth-I hafta turn off all the churches on the map so I can frikkin' see something else besides all the #$%*in' churches.)

 

I've learned a lot here. Probably not what you might think I've learned, but I have learned a lot.

 

I like it here.  I think I'll stick around. (for as long as the mod who probably shoulda banned me a long time ago keeps laughing at what I write. *grins and crosses fingers*)

 

 

Now, having said that-I'm hungry and I have a couple dollars in ma pocket, so I do believe I'm gonna go worship briefly at The Church Of The One True Clown.  (Dollar menu ROCKS!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Last edited by Road Puppy

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