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To any teenagers reading this forum.  There must be one or two of you.

 

You now have independent minds.  Come here and ask (or tell) us of your opinions on religion.  We'd like to discuss religion with you.  We'd like to hear what's on your minds.

 

 

DF

Make time for great justice.  Expect us.

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Hi all,

 

By George, I have long wonder about the real identify of Deep.   Now, he has told us!

 

He is a "Michael Shermer" wannabe!    Deep, at least Shermer offered a reward to those young people who would take his Blasphemy Challenge -- what are you offering them?

 

Oh, I know!  A one way ticket on the Slippery Slope Into Hell.  

 

Deep, my Friend, I know that, for believers, when God brings a soul into our sphere of influence who needs to know about his His "free gift" of eternal life, and we fail to tell that person about Christ -- if that person is lost eternally, his/her lost soul is upon our shoulders.  We will bear that burden. 

 

However, if we tell that person about Christ and His "paid in full" gift of eternal life for all who will believe and receive it -- if that person then refuses, the burden is fully upon his/her shoulders.  For, at that point, the believer has fulfilled his/her Great Commission given to all believers by Christ.

 

Along that same line of thinking -- if you and your hero Michael Shermer lure young people away from God and they are lost eternally -- those souls are then upon your shoulders. 

 

Which leads me to my second thought -- how much hotter can the lake of fire, hell, be made?  Does each soul you have lured away with your atheist teachings -- add some level of heat increase?  As I said, just a thought.

 

Deep, my Friend -- bring lots of water.  Eternity is a very, very long time.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

If You Died Today

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi all,

 

By George, I have long wonder about the real identify of Deep.   Now, he has told us!

 

He is a "Michael Shermer" wannabe!    Deep, at least Shermer offered a reward to those young people who would take his Blasphemy Challenge -- what are you offering them?

 

Oh, I know!  A one way ticket on the Slippery Slope Into Hell.  

 

Deep, my Friend, I know that, for believers, when God brings a soul into our sphere of influence who needs to know about his His "free gift" of eternal life, and we fail to tell that person about Christ -- if that person is lost eternally, his/her lost soul is upon our shoulders.  We will bear that burden. 

 

However, if we tell that person about Christ and His "paid in full" gift of eternal life for all who will believe and receive it -- if that person then refuses, the burden is fully upon his/her shoulders.  For, at that point, the believer has fulfilled his/her Great Commission given to all believers by Christ.

 

Along that same line of thinking -- if you and your hero Michael Shermer lure young people away from God and they are lost eternally -- those souls are then upon your shoulders. 

 

Which leads me to my second thought -- how much hotter can the lake of fire, hell, be made?  Does each soul you have lured away with your atheist teachings -- add some level of heat increase?  As I said, just a thought.

 

Deep, my Friend -- bring lots of water.  Eternity is a very, very long time.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

 

___________________

Starts with #9, meanders around #7, and returns to #9.  You could have finished the football game on TV in the time you would have saved.

Besides, Bill speaks with a forked tongue - he can offer no proof of his god other than some words that the believes to be true, because the words say they are true. how simple minded can you get? even my 14 year old daughter grasps what a stupid idea that is.

the church of the flying spaghetti monster, however, has recent had their deity's existance confirmed though photographic evidence.

Bill, when you can offer concrete proof of the reality of your god, get back to me.
just because you believe something doesn't make it true. 

Behold him, in all of his noodely glory! 

FSM

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The Nagel> "just because you believe something doesn't make it true."

And by the same token, just because you don't believe, doesn't make it false. So that isn't an issue.


DF/NSNS,

I have never understood why any athiest would want to discuss God, His way of Life, and His plans for us. That's kind of like me discussing palm readers. I don't believe in them, and certainly care nothing about their practice. So i have no reason to discuss anything about subjects i don't even acknowledge or identify with.

But keep on fanning the flames of Heavenly fire, because it does give opportunity here for God to be discussed by those who are called for that very purpose. God does take what is meant for evil, and cause it to become good. Sometimes God makes it so easy to play into His hands... 

If you don't understand that's your problem. It's been explained to you plenty of times. What part does palm reading play in your life? It has no part in mine and I don't discuss it or worry about it either. I can't say the same about religion. Discuss religion all you want, if what you do is what you call discussing. All I ever see you do is whine at people for the posts they make to bill, try to run them down, and give bill his "attaboys". So discuss away, and stop worrying about why others are here.

Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone.:

The Nagel> "just because you believe something doesn't make it true."

And by the same token, just because you don't believe, doesn't make it false. So that isn't an issue.


DF/NSNS,

I have never understood why any athiest would want to discuss God, His way of Life, and His plans for us. That's kind of like me discussing palm readers. I don't believe in them, and certainly care nothing about their practice. So i have no reason to discuss anything about subjects i don't even acknowledge or identify with.

But keep on fanning the flames of Heavenly fire, because it does give opportunity here for God to be discussed by those who are called for that very purpose. God does take what is meant for evil, and cause it to become good. Sometimes God makes it so easy to play into His hands... 

 

 

while i have come to believe that you are bill's self appointed lapdog, and think there is little reason trying to talk to you, i'll go out on a limb and explain it.

first - i'm not an atheist.

 

second - no, but when you can prove, time and again, that all of the things attributed to the imaginary friend can be proven to be either purely false, or just plain old every day science, it goes a long way in demonstrating the fiction of the in question.  

however - i'm not the one making a ridiculous assertion  i'm not the one trying to convince people that there is an invisible man in the clouds who loves us sooooo much that he will punish us for eternity if we don't kowtow to him.   

 

you are the one making such a claim - the burden of proof lies on the prosecution, not the defense. i don't have to prove god isn't real anymore than i have to prove that there are no 9 legged moon-men living in my back yard. 

 

finally, the oppression and repression of the fans of jesus's mindset affects me on a nearly daily basis. i like in alabama.. the crotch of the bible belt, and i have religion shoved into my face often. i'm not even safe in my own home - some proselytizing ne'erdowell sycophant will eventually come knowing on my door asking me if i've found jesus. well i tell them ' look, if you lost the guy it's not my fault.. don't come whining to me' they get all offended n stuff.
(my one regret is that i've never dealt with the proverbial 6am doorbell from the real nutjobs in the jehovah's witnesses. those guys i'd leave as a bloody smear on my poarch)

 

my kids were handed one of those mini-bibles by some smarmy old baggage who was acting as the teachers classroom helper that day. ( it was also the last day she was ever allowed to come help out in her daughters school. nice move, dipstick, get yourself banned for placing your fantasy over the law.

 

Jesus and his ol man are shoved into my face so often he must think i'm jenna jamison.
i'll pray for you..... some one pray for my neighbor.... prayer requests going out... i even once saw a facebook post that said ( no kidding at all here...)

"ATTENTION ALL GOD'S CHILDREN! - I'm Activating the prayer network. please pray for our poor binky to get well, he's not doing well and needs all of gods love" 

and i thought... oh.. a sick kid. that's sad. i hope he gets the meds and treatement he needs. odd nickname tho. abotu a week later i see ' binky didn't make it. we had to put him down. thanks for all the love and prayers i'm sure they helped him in his final hours."

yup. binky was a cat. now, i'm cat people. not a big fan of dogs. if thye had said ' hey, our cat is sick, can anyone help out with the meds?" i would have done anything i could to do something to help. i figured it was a dumb nickname for their child, and as such they would have the kid at the hospital, etc, so not much i could do.

but a cat. in fact, what turns out to be an 18 year old cat.

even if god did answer prayers.. do you really think he'd be pleased haveing his day interruped to bless an 18 year old cat, when there are real issues that really need addressing by your so-called god?

people tell me... ' i'll pray for you'. i tell them to not bother.. if they really believe prayer does anything at all, they need to spend all their prayers for the sick, hungry and dying children across the world.. they are a far better cause to spend a prayer on than me.
in fact - i bet lots of people pray for the sick, hungry and dying children all over the world.

so.. if prayer works.. why do we still have sick, hungry and dying children?

either prayer is a useless waste of time. serving no purpose other than to make the unthinking believe they are actually doing something, when donating money or blood or time would have a far greater result.

OR.. god likes kids to get sick, go hungry and die.

 

no 3rd option is possible. deal with it. 

 

after a long ramble, here we are at my final point. i've taken an active position against christianity - i probably would take the same position against most other religions, but i can't because i simply don't know enough about them. i've had evil and bile and discrimination and subjugation fed to me as "god's love" by christers all of my life, and can no longer in good conscious sit idle and quiet while rapists, murders, thieves and slavers are painted as the heros of that book.  

if you gte caught raping an unmarried girl, just give her dad 30 sheckles and you can go on raping her for the rest of your life. she doesn't get a say in the matter.

god of love? the good book? there's never been a more perfect example of what an earth controlled by Satan would look like than the description of the "godfearing and righteous" people in that sick disgusting hate filled book of evil.

 

i am in a religious forum to present the people here the other side of the issue, to help someone find the power to use their own mind and THINK instead of just bleating around after a loudmouth old man who is so blind to his own needs and fantasies he can't even see the hate and evil spewing out of his mouth.

 

until you empty the cup that's filled with what you already believe to be true, you will never be able understand what IS true. until you empty your mind of the useless hate that is "god" you will never be able to understand the deep and complex beauty of the world that's really around you, and will instead see only the shiny surface and be convinced that the tip of the iceberg is the whole.

but i still love you Veep. you've never shoved anythign into my face.

more the pity.  

Well... no response from teenagers yet, except perhaps Roland.  Pity.

 

Ask your kids to visit here.  Show them this site.  I'd like to hear from them.  Send the link to your nieces and nephews, your grandkids.  Ask them to give us their opinion.  I'm not here to argue with them, I want their candid views.  Candid, being the operative word.

 

Bring them in.  Let's all find out what the kids are thinking.

 

DF

Very easy how you come to those conclusions, Nagel. I respect your honestly In your statements. There is so much suffering in this world. I get tired, admittedly,of hearing that "well it's because God gave us free will, and we've screwed it up". I will have a lot of questions and critiques if and when I have the opportunity for a round table discussion with our Lord. I have a legal pad.

Deep I’m curious. Your call to teenagers is a bit more than awkward in my opinion.

Would your curriculum of discussion include Shermer’s link below in a study guide?

Michael Shermer‏@michaelshermer

Moral case for sex before marriage (& health/psych benefits of sex). This is even better than the chocolate studies!http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/24/moral-case-for-sex-before-marriage …

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Funny isn't it, how some "christian" minds always go to the "child molester" insinuation. Has to be  because it's so prevalent in churches.


It calls to mind how a year ago, a certain forum member had an animated forum avatar vaguely reminiscent of the "dancing baby" animation that made its way around the internet back in the '90s, and another forum member said it looked like something "from a pedophile website".   ...And now that same accuser routinely includes an actual photograph of a baby wearing nothing but a ribbon tied into a bow in his posts.

TheNagel> "until you empty the cup that's filled with what you already believe to be true, you will never be able understand what IS true. until you empty your mind of the useless hate that is "god" you will never be able to understand the deep and complex beauty of the world that's really around you, and will instead see only the shiny surface and be convinced that the tip of the iceberg is the whole."


i agree with most of what you've said here, except we disagree on who the one true God is and that He is Love.

You suggest that i empty my cup filled with what i already believe to be true.... (I offer the same suggestion to you.)

You say i can't understand the deep and complex beauty of the world around me. Oh but i do, for my God, the Creator of the universe, created it in all it's splendor and wonder.

Our difference is that you believe in the tangible, the reasonable, and only the possible; while i believe in the God of the invisible, the unexplainable, and the impossible. Were He any less, He would be just a man, and this world is too magnificient for any man to make just 'reasonable' of it.


Seems that you have been badly burned by 'religion'. i was too. So i gave up such religion for a personal relationship with God. He is so much more than an unapproachable dictator high in the sky  using an iron fist against us, as many believe. 

I'm not here to try to change your mind, God only requires me to share my belief in Him and because of His great Love for me. and that i do.

I wish only that you knew His amazing Love for you, and for all who read here.

Blessings to you.

Hi Hippie Girl,

 

You have stated the case for faith very well.  I agree with you.  In this mortal life, truly knowing the splendor of God is beyond our grasp, as you well illustrated with you "tip of the iceberg" illustration. 

 

Thank you, my Friend, for continuing to stand for our Christian faith.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Isaiah 55_8-9 - Iceberg

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Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

To any teenagers reading this forum.  There must be one or two of you.

 

You now have independent minds.  Come here and ask (or tell) us of your opinions on religion.  We'd like to discuss religion with you.  We'd like to hear what's on your minds.

 

 

DF

While I fully admit it may be possible that some teenagers may from time to time visit this forum I'm wondering if you really would expect someone to put themselves out there in dialog knowing or having seen the exchanges of opinions and post on this forum?   On one hand if a new person was to actually come into the forum with a question I'm sure there would be several that would attempt to answer those questions in an engaging manner but you surely know that there would be attacks from many diverse sides and opinions that potentially would lead to more confusion than anything else.  Maybe though that is your point in asking, in the first place. 

 

My addition to this topic is more generic advice in case some wandering person just does happen by and reads the post under this topic.  From the standpoint of a representative representing Christ and Christians I would like to say that answers to life's questions and answers regarding God comes from within and from God Himself.  Human nature is to be curious and questioning as well as doubting and to make decisions based upon information accumulated from a wide ranging and various number of sources.  The seemingly absence of something, physically, doesn't mean that it is not there at all.  A person says God does not exist because I cannot prove to them that God exist is not a valid statement. Or put more generically to say something doesn't exist because it's not apparent to me is not rational or reasonable.

 

Most Christians, although they may disagree on various doctrines, will explain that God's Holy Spirit is their proof or evidence that God exist and that Salvation is real, or their basis of their faith.  God's Holy Spirit is given, by God, unto those who are Saved and have changed their direction and lives and accepted Christ (John chapter 14:19...).   If a person has not done this then they not only don't have God's Holy Spirit as evidence but they don't know God, God is not real nor can be real to them so when they say there is no God, speaking from their sole standpoint that is a valid and true statement.  To them and for them there is no proof or evidence of God.   The problem comes in when they attempt to make a dogmatic statement that there is no God at all because then they are taking their personal experience and extending that to everyone else.  Here is the difficulty though.  There are millions of Christian believers, past and present, who testify that there is a God, die for that statement, and claim evidence sufficient for their own belief, that God exist and that they have an intimate relationship with God and have all assurance of His presence and existence.  This they cannot explain so they attempt to justify it away by claiming that those who claim such are delusional.  

 

Statistically speaking given any number or sample of people in any group there will be those that fall into various classifications or categories and therefore of those that claim they are Christians surely some are delusional just as the same applies to Atheist or other Religions.  Still though that leaves a vast and huge number of individuals who are not insane, not delusional, not stupid, not unintelligent, who very much have reason for their faith and a basis on which to believe.  Our testimony is that God is not only real but personally intimate with each of us by the presence and ministry of His (God's) Holy Spirit.  Now those who do not  believe such is true have to account for that and thus you can make any statement you wish about the reason for that but one thing you cannot do is categorically claim all instances are false based solely upon your own hope or your own prejudices and beliefs yet that is what many try and do.  So this long dissertation is aimed at those who are asking questions, legitimate questions, about is there a God or why am I here.  You alone have to answer those questions based upon your own findings.  Christians will say do not judge God on Physical terms but consider a realm apart from the physical and that God is Spirit and exist in the Spiritual realm where the laws of physics do not apply or cannot be used.  

 

It is my (and many other Christians) belief that within each human exist a living and eternal spirit apart from the flesh and blood.  Within us is that dichotomy, a spirit existing within a physical being of flesh and blood separate in the same way that we say God is Spiritual and separate from the Physical world.   Faith comes from some base or basis and we all make decisions based upon that which is relevant to our own self.  We believe God is Spirit existing and dwelling in the Spiritual realm which is unknown (to us) in size and scope yet God, in His infinite Love, became a part of the Physical Realm came to earth in the form/body of a man, became flesh, in Jesus Christ.  God's Spirit within the flesh of a human (John 14:7-11).   Presented Himself as a perfect living sacrifice for mankind's sins and imperfections and through that sacrifice Mankind can obtain not only forgiveness for our sins and wrongs but Justification allowing us to be saved from Judgment against those sins and our sin nature.  God also presents those who accept Christ with His Holy Spirit as a ministry to dwell alongside and within each saved human person until Christ comes to reclaim those who are His, when he returns again, which we believe He will.

 

If you truly are here seeking answers then ask whatever questions you wish, take each answer as each person's own personal perspective and opinion regarding your question and do not close your mind to any potential possibility or answer.  That's my own personal opinion.  I fully believe the answers are out there and are available for those who legitimately seek them. 

gb, you wound me.

 

My intention is not to confuse.  I'm curious as to the religious thoughts of teens in suburban Alabama.  After all, it's where I'm from.

 

When I was a teen there, it was assumed that I was a Protestant believer.  And I was, sorta.  But these are different times.  Young people all over the country are no longer marching in lockstep with the religions of their parents nearly as often.  You see, belief is not something one chooses.  It's a matter of experience, education, and cultural influences.  It's usually external.  One can't choose to believe.

 

With the internet, kids these days have so much more information at hand.  They are in a position to discover what they believe, based on a wide-ranging spectrum of information I did not have.  Good on 'em.  You should appreciate this, too, as I'm sure you regard the truth above all else.

 

DF

Best, there was a flurry of atheism in the 1950's.  It didn't last long, what with McCarthyism and all.  Ayn Rand and Bertrand Russell are the remaining well-known voices of that era.  Anyway, my parents had a copy of Russell's "Why I Am Not A Christian", to their credit.  I didn't read it until I was about 40.   I could have, I was not forbidden to read it, I just didn't.  No boat-rocker, me.

 

Oh, by the way, they were both confident Christians.

 

Wish I had read it.

 

DF

Originally Posted by Aeneas:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Funny isn't it, how some "christian" minds always go to the "child molester" insinuation. Has to be  because it's so prevalent in churches.

 

Despite the fact that Virgil wrote a long yarn about you, you missed my point.

 

Which is, that a man trying to drag children into perdition is worse than a child molester. 

 

And that is not to say that there are not perverts in churches. 

There is no "perdition" and I don't see anyone trying to "drag" anyone to that mythical place. If there was a god you'd be on the road to perdition yourself for judging people and insinuating things about them like you do. You don't know squat about me except that I'm an atheist. Figures you wouldn't think child molesters are the worse things in the world. 

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

gb, you wound me.

 

My intention is not to confuse.  I'm curious as to the religious thoughts of teens in suburban Alabama.  After all, it's where I'm from.

 

When I was a teen there, it was assumed that I was a Protestant believer.  And I was, sorta.  But these are different times.  Young people all over the country are no longer marching in lockstep with the religions of their parents nearly as often.  You see, belief is not something one chooses.  It's a matter of experience, education, and cultural influences.  It's usually external.  One can't choose to believe.

 

With the internet, kids these days have so much more information at hand.  They are in a position to discover what they believe, based on a wide-ranging spectrum of information I did not have.  Good on 'em.  You should appreciate this, too, as I'm sure you regard the truth above all else.

 

DF

In no way was I attempting to denigrate your question for I assumed and presume it to be legitimate and without ulterior motive, an assumption I hope is true.  The statement I made with regards to maybe it being your point in the beginning was more levity than sincerity.  It's a play on a point, I believe, you made, on a previous day, that basically stated that the arguments between many Christians as well as the Judgmental approach that some take being responsible for running people from Religion rather than drawing them into sincere discussion about it. 


In other words I meant that if a sincere person was to come in and engage some in sincere dialog, asking a sincere question about some aspect of Religion or Christianity, more specifically, that there would be some, all be it with good intentions, that would potentially answer questions or address the individual as if they were already in error and attempt to correct them in the error of their ways.  On the other side (possibly) there would be those that, rather than express their opinions, would denigrate the person asking the question for their beliefs or make a comment about the person's intelligence due to their believing as they do.  Both types of people would have a detrimental effect on someone new being willing to join in and ask any form of sincere question from any religious basis or point of view.

 

I can't speak for others, but for  myself only, and my intent in engaging another person in dialog is to attempt to first represent a Christian perspective but do so in such a way that is generic enough that it recognizes that there are many diverse denominational standings regarding many different topics.  If I were to answer a question or query in such a way to assume to be dogmatic and answer for all Christians in such a restrictive way to deny or reject all other doctrinal opinions then I would also, by doing so, invite possible contentious responses from other professing Christians of certain denominational positions and end up sponsoring a contentious argument rather than fostering a discussion that sincerely was directed at answering the initial inquiry, from a Christian perspective.  Afterwards, after a rapport had been established where mutual respect was achieved and assumed then specific details or doctrinal differences can be examined and expressed if such applied.  

 

If a calculating atheist were to desire to sew confusion and conflict (which I do not feel you are doing) then what better way than to create a dialog in which one Christian contends with and against another and instead of addressing the central question or point ends up more demonstrating confusion and a contentious environment where it seems that no one knows what they are talking about or why.  I though do not believe that was your intent so I apologize if it came across that way. 


My actual assessment of your basis for the question is to see if young Christians actually have some basis for their belief or if their basis resides more in what mom and pop said or what someone else said and they heard but have no actual reason to base their own understanding upon.  Christians should also be just as concerned that those who believe know what they believe and why they believe what they do. 


We all (believers and non-believers) have basis or reason to believe as we do but many are not confident enough to express those reasons and others are uncomfortable expressing their basis for their core beliefs.  Naturally I assume you wish to have opportunity to express your reasons for your personal choice to those you believe are in like or similar situations.  Likewise there are Christians, myself included, that fully believe we also can contribute in positive ways and help elevate potential confusion and misinformation that is often put forth about our respective beliefs and positions and who desire to see new Christians mature in their faith just as I'm sure you feel a reason for your being here is to attempt to persuade people to challenge their beliefs and present your own information which you feel has been beneficial to your own experiences and beliefs.    We do definitely disagree with. each other's positions yet we are both passionate about our own beliefs and basis of our beliefs.  So hopefully you are not so wounded now that hopefully I have clarified my statement or why I said what I did. 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

There is no "perdition" and I don't see anyone trying to "drag" anyone to that mythical place. If there was a god you'd be on the road to perdition yourself for judging people and insinuating things about them like you do. You don't know squat about me except that I'm an atheist. Figures you wouldn't think child molesters are the worse things in the world.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And I really don't want to know squat about you, despite your exalted opinion of yourself. 

 

These are the worst things in the world- "It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble."
 

 

Originally Posted by Winston Niles Rumfoord:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

There is no "perdition" and I don't see anyone trying to "drag" anyone to that mythical place. If there was a god you'd be on the road to perdition yourself for judging people and insinuating things about them like you do. You don't know squat about me except that I'm an atheist. Figures you wouldn't think child molesters are the worse things in the world.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And I really don't want to know squat about you, despite your exalted opinion of yourself. 

 

These are the worst things in the world- "It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble."
 ===============

 

  My "exalted opinion of myself"? What does that even mean?  You think kids should be killed if they don't believe? Sure hope you don't have any.  Sheesh, sick.

Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone.:

 

You suggest that i empty my cup filled with what i already believe to be true.... (I offer the same suggestion to you.)

 

 

 

trust me. my ' cup' is empty. dumped it out myself, and then flushed.
the only thing that goes in it now are things than can be proven.

i said i wasn't an atheist... and i'm not. to carry the silly analogy further, while my cup is 90% empty, it is held up by a saucer. 
as suggested to me on this forum by some guy who alias i can't remember, i've discovered that my beliefs fall most closely  to that of a Deist. not exactly, but close enough. 

i believe there is some superbeing.. whether or not this being is divine is unknown and irrelevant. he set the rules of physics into motion and created the universe, then basically went to take a nap. 
there is no one watching over us, there is no one guiding us, there is no one answering prayers.
i believe we have a reason for being here.. an end goal , if you will, and this god is just chillin' until we get there. 
i do believe in some sort of afterlife, but can't imagine what it would be like.. i do NOT believe in the biblical heaven or hell. eternity of torment and pain because of one moment of weakness, and God Loves Us? what a load of horsefeathers.

another thought... if there is a God, like in the bible, he's done everything in methods indistinguishable from nature, and has remaind so perfectly hidden and undetectable for so long ... why would anyone think that he wants us to worship him? if god is real, it seems to me like he's given us every indication that he wants us to leave him the heck alone.

I have some questions.

 

1. Why is it that all across the world that people claim to have this great God, but they are always the one's fighting with one another. Non believers aren't the one's burning the world to the ground, believers are.

 

2. So your telling me this....If you as a Christian fail to witness to me and I burn in Hell for all of eternity, then your held accountible, but you get to go to Heaven anyways while I burn?

 

3. God is Love. If I live a good life, raise a good family, obey the law, treat others with respect, help the needy and all that, but I simply do not chose not to believe in something that apparently no one can agree on without throwing insults at, condeeming others, or protesting someone else's beliefs......then I'm the one who God will send into a lake of fire and torture forever because he loves me more than anyone else on this earth possibly could? But a man can murder people, rape people and kill babies and as long as he turns from his wicked ways somewhere along the road he is good to go?

 

As a young adult let me tell you people on here a couple things. Alot of you are a bunch of Hypocrites. More of my friends have simply walked away from church simply because of that one fact over anything else. Religion is the problem in this world. All the fighting that is going wouldn't be if it wasn't for religion. Don't expect any young person to read forums like this and expect them to show up in church listening to your ignorance the next Sunday. Stop blaming things like music, video games, internet and ect. for corrupting us. It's you doing it, I promise. Look at yourselves on here. I don't want any part of your lives or religion. Nothing about you people or your views is good. You talk a big game, but in the end it's all a smoke screen. Most of you believe what you do because thats what your parents told you to do. Your Baptist because you were born Baptist. Your Muslim because you were born Muslim. ect. ect. No offense, but I was raised in church for the last 21 yrs. 3 times a week, every week. I've seen what your about and I don't want any more of it. Go on protesting same sex marriage while your preachers and priest keep having affairs and molesting children. Clean out your own closets before your judge mine.

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