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Actually history may just look back on the elections of 2008 as a watershed event. It put the Democrats (and mostly liberals) in complete control of the Government for everyone to see how they do. It also shows just how fragile democracy is and how one election can be very costly. The Democrats ( hard core democrats that is) are continually trying to resurrect President Bush and painting a picture that all republicans will be just as President Bush was. Well in comparison to Obama President Bush might not look so bad after all. President Obama is being shown to be a pretty good actor after all. With Reagan we had an Actor who made a great President and with Obama we have a President that's being a great Actor at being President all the while demonstrating, at our expense, just how inept he is. While the Republicans, when in power, didn't really help matters they didn't do the harm that is being done in the last two years to our country and Constitutional freedoms.

IF Democrats would or could for a moment look at the actions taken by our current leaders and instead of trying to defend them imagine that it was Republicans that did the exact same thing then they could see how dangerous our leaders are. Healthcare legislation and the way it was enacted along with the banking regulations that they have enacted which have led to banks and institutions raising fees and rates on individuals account of that legislation are not making it better and easier but harder on the middle class and families today. Once Healthcare, that was passed, kicks in then the real injustice and damage will be evident and the only reason we don't know about it now and know about the damage that is being done is that we have a National Media group that is so liberal that they stop investigating and reporting on liberal democrats and make everything look good or as good as they can.

The best proof that Democrats (today) are in trouble and messing things up without a clue about how to fix it is their continual reference and blame to President Bush. They have had two years and instead of fixing what they declare is wrong they instead force through un-constitutional legislation (without a true vote) which takes us to socialism rather than democracy.

Maybe the elections of 2008 will be a watershed event showing just how much harm can be done in an election and hopefully 2010 elections (November) will be a time that American's in large numbers show up and vote back some control into sensible peoples hands and allow some of these pending catastrophes to be rolled back or repealed.

Be as the Bereans ( Acts 17:11 )

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While the Republicans, when in power, didn't really help matters they didn't do the harm that is being done in the last two years to our country and Constitutional freedoms.


This is just factually incorrect. You may not like the current President and Congress. I don't either. Still, their abuses of the Constitution have not begun to equal those of the previous administration.
Congress went dem in 2006. Barney Frank was signing the praises of Fannie and Freddie in 2005.

If Bush spent like a drunken sailor, Obama spends like a drunken crew. If Bush spends, it's bad. If Obama spends its good.
If F and F make stupid loans under Bush it's bad, under Obama it's good.
If Bush give a down-payment for a home loan that has to be paid back, it's bad. If Obama gives $8000 in cash, no strings for a home loan, its good.

WHERE IS THE LOGIC IN THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
quote:
While the Republicans, when in power, didn't really help matters they didn't do the harm that is being done in the last two years to our country and Constitutional freedoms.


This is just factually incorrect. You may not like the current President and Congress. I don't either. Still, their abuses of the Constitution have not begun to equal those of the previous administration.



If factually incorrect then please itemize for us the egregious Un-Constitutional actions of the Republicans when they had the Presidency and Congress? Can any compare to deeming the Healthcare bill passed without actually voting on it? Can any approach the Healthcare legislation at all? Where did the republicans fashion such huge legislation in private and then do all the backroom deals that was done and promised in order to force the Healthcare bill passed?

Where did Bush appoint Czars who are operating apart from the check's and balances that are built into the constitution?

When did the justice Department, under Bush or the Republicans, perform such a horrendous act as not only not prosecuting a crime with video evidence but dismissing the case when it was already won as the Obama Justice Department did with Voter intimidation involving the new Black Panther party? This was truly a Racial event and was allowed to happen by the President and his people.

You make a simple statement that it's factually incorrect so list and itemize your facts then so we all may know where the Republicans went against the Constitution?


You hear lots of liberals that want to prosecute Bush for this or that but what's being done by our current group of Politicians (Democrats) is totally unconstitutional and should be prosecuted when possible and people should go to jail for crimes against the Constitution and this Country. It is an attempt to destroy the country and government as we know it. It is failing to observe the election process but rather deeming bills to be passed or worse legislating from the bench as in the Arizona case or recent Marriage case in California where a judge (who was gay) disregarded the votes of 7 million and by his pen declared what is and is not law.
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Can any compare to deeming the Healthcare bill passed without actually voting on it?


I don't like the Healthcare Bill, but a vote of the Congress took place.

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Where did Bush appoint Czars who are operating apart from the check's and balances that are built into the constitution?


Bush's Czars

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You make a simple statement that it's factually incorrect so list and itemize your facts then so we all may know where the Republicans went against the Constitution?


Warrantless wiretaps, the Patriot Act, an unprecendented and still unmatched number of "signing statements" that added provisions to legislation that were not voted on by the Congress.....

I don't like Obama either, but I'm not going to pretend Bush was a good President when he did a demostrably awful job and ignored The Constitution every step of the way.
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
quote:
Can any compare to deeming the Healthcare bill passed without actually voting on it?


I don't like the Healthcare Bill, but a vote of the Congress took place.

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Where did Bush appoint Czars who are operating apart from the check's and balances that are built into the constitution?


Bush's Czars

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You make a simple statement that it's factually incorrect so list and itemize your facts then so we all may know where the Republicans went against the Constitution?


Warrantless wiretaps, the Patriot Act, an unprecendented and still unmatched number of "signing statements" that added provisions to legislation that were not voted on by the Congress.....

I don't like Obama either, but I'm not going to pretend Bush was a good President when he did a demostrably awful job and ignored The Constitution every step of the way.



Bush hated the Constitution, and even once said it was "just a ******med bunch of paper".
After that statement, how can anyone say Obama is less supportive of our Constitution.

gbrk's assertions are so ignorant, they don't even deserve an answer.
If I am not mistaken though, has Obama repealed the Patriot Act? has he ended any and all of the wiretaps and airwaves monitoring? Heck no, he hasn't, yet the liberals still support him. His actions are no different than the previous president, exept he throws it around with a few polished words and things like "hope" and "change".
He continues the war, and has even expanded it. The problem I have is the healthcare bill is a costly venture that will persecute those who do not want to have insurance or refuse to buy it. It should have been voted on more democratically, since over 60% of the people polled did not support the plan nor want it, and that was from every news outlet.
The liberal media fails to address the fact that we are spending much faster than we can even print money, and the debt is already insurmountable. Look for this nation to be filing Chapter 13 soon, the goods will go to the highest bidder. Meanwhile Obama golfs and plays basketball with Lebron while Michelle vacations in the south of France. No wonder he has lost touch.
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If I am not mistaken though, has Obama repealed the Patriot Act? has he ended any and all of the wiretaps and airwaves monitoring? Heck no, he hasn't, yet the liberals still support him. His actions are no different than the previous president, exept he throws it around with a few polished words and things like "hope" and "change".
He continues the war, and has even expanded it.


I fully agree. He has made no progress toward fixing all the problems Bush created, and has added a heap of problems of his own.

Another poster implied that Obama's disregard for the Constitution is without precendent. That isn't true, and I simply pointed it out.

As for Obama continuing bad Bush policy, don't expect a change. Don't expect a change when Republicans get control again (and it looks like they will in 2010). With a majority of Congress, Republicans could pass legislation correcting all the flaws of the Healthcare Bill (or outright get rid of it). They won't. That would open the door to the next Congress to change the laws they snuck through, like the Patriot Act.
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Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
quote:
Can any compare to deeming the Healthcare bill passed without actually voting on it?


I don't like the Healthcare Bill, but a vote of the Congress took place.

quote:
Where did Bush appoint Czars who are operating apart from the check's and balances that are built into the constitution?


Bush's Czars

quote:
You make a simple statement that it's factually incorrect so list and itemize your facts then so we all may know where the Republicans went against the Constitution?


Warrantless wiretaps, the Patriot Act, an unprecendented and still unmatched number of "signing statements" that added provisions to legislation that were not voted on by the Congress.....

I don't like Obama either, but I'm not going to pretend Bush was a good President when he did a demostrably awful job and ignored The Constitution every step of the way.


Bush hated the Constitution, and even once said it was "just a ******med bunch of paper".
After that statement, how can anyone say Obama is less supportive of our Constitution.

gbrk's assertions are so ignorant, they don't even deserve an answer.



Seaweed,

Bush never made that statement about the constitution. There is no person who will attribute the statement to him. Its another Big Lie told again and again. Goebbels would be proud.

As to signing statements, Congress continually passes laws that are subject to interpretation, instead of bright line law. There is shared blame.
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
quote:
Can any compare to deeming the Healthcare bill passed without actually voting on it?


I don't like the Healthcare Bill, but a vote of the Congress took place.

quote:
Where did Bush appoint Czars who are operating apart from the check's and balances that are built into the constitution?


Bush's Czars

quote:
You make a simple statement that it's factually incorrect so list and itemize your facts then so we all may know where the Republicans went against the Constitution?


Warrantless wiretaps, the Patriot Act, an unprecendented and still unmatched number of "signing statements" that added provisions to legislation that were not voted on by the Congress.....

I don't like Obama either, but I'm not going to pretend Bush was a good President when he did a demostrably awful job and ignored The Constitution every step of the way.



Bush hated the Constitution, and even once said it was "just a ******med bunch of paper".
After that statement, how can anyone say Obama is less supportive of our Constitution.

gbrk's assertions are so ignorant, they don't even deserve an answer.



While I disagree totally with your assertions I never once called you ignorant or stooped that low. You should be a shamed of yourself for such forum conduct, and no apology I'm sure.

As for your statement about Bush saying such .. IF that was so with such a hostile media and videos on youtube you would see it posted everywhere and it would be easy to reference. So if he did say it as you suggest then please paste the reference or at least be fair enough to retract that statement. Bush did want to listen in on conversations but those were outside the US, overseas and not of US citizens. Obama wants to do the same and worse here in America and to our citizens who are protected by the Constitution or were.

Both Bush and Obama pledged to uphold and defend the Constitution and I've never seen proof of where Bush did anything that was against the Constitutional powers granted him. As for the "vote" in Congress there were votes alright but because of the likelihood that another house vote would have failed the House DEEMED the bill to be passed and accepted the Senate version rather than have a up/down vote on it and that's not constitutional and is to circumvent the check's and balances that are built into the Constitution. It is the Democrats and not the Republicans who have trampled on the Constitution and it's this President (Obama) and not Bush who seemingly cares not for it. As for the Czars, who are also a way to skirt the Checks and Balances of the Constitution and who are not subject to congressional approval ... you say Bush had them so how about naming Bush's Czars? Obamas are many but I don't remember a one for President Bush but I could be wrong ... there may have been one or two but not the large number that Obama has appointed and certainly not with the communist, Marxist, or socialist leanings that Obama's appointees have.

I didn't like Bush either but compared to Obama he was not only much more Presidential but much more competent at and in the job. The only reason Obama is President today is that our overly biased media did not cover him or do their job and investigate the man and report on the man. It's embarrassing just how little experience he had and the views that he holds with respect to Democracy, America, and our form of Government.

IF that's ignorance then I'll accept the verdict of the forum with respect to your positions.
I didn't post the thing about Bush commenting on the Constitution. I know that is a fabricated quote, so nothing else to say there.

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Bush did want to listen in on conversations but those were outside the US, overseas and not of US citizens. Obama wants to do the same and worse here in America and to our citizens who are protected by the Constitution or were.


You don't know Bush's reasons. You're giving him a pass because you like him. His administration pushed through broad legislation that had no regard for the civil liberties of American citizens. If Obama has done worse on that front, please post an example.

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I've never seen proof of where Bush did anything that was against the Constitutional powers granted him.


Well, we let Presidents do whatever they want these days. He's no better or worse than Obama. I'll let you decide whether either of them are being "unconstitutional," as long as you realize what applies to one has to apply to the other.

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As for the "vote" in Congress there were votes alright but because of the likelihood that another house vote would have failed the House DEEMED the bill to be passed and accepted the Senate version rather than have a up/down vote on it and that's not constitutional and is to circumvent the check's and balances that are built into the Constitution.


Again, that bill is terrible, but its method of passage was/is perfectly in line with the Constitution. Please cite somethint to show otherwise.

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As for the Czars, who are also a way to skirt the Checks and Balances of the Constitution and who are not subject to congressional approval ... you say Bush had them so how about naming Bush's Czars? Obamas are many but I don't remember a one for President Bush but I could be wrong ... there may have been one or two but not the large number that Obama has appointed and certainly not with the communist, Marxist, or socialist leanings that Obama's appointees have.


Click the link in my other post. Bush had more than Obama has.

Look, I'm with you on Obama being a bad President. He has done a terrible job so far. Bush was just as bad if not worse, and there's no sense in pretending otherwise.
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
quote:
While the Republicans, when in power, didn't really help matters they didn't do the harm that is being done in the last two years to our country and Constitutional freedoms.


This is just factually incorrect. You may not like the current President and Congress. I don't either. Still, their abuses of the Constitution have not begun to equal those of the previous administration.


Well dolemitejb...I think you are factually incorrect here...The present administration has not only continued the Constitutional abuses of the previous administration but have gone far beyond...

Everything that they campaigned against...Gitmo, war, torture, big business favors(bailouts), etc...The Big O has continued...so yes they have "equaled" and surpassed the previous administration.
These ARE factually inccorrect:

quote:
Originally posted by gbrk:
...I've never seen proof of where Bush did anything that was against the Constitutional powers granted him...

...It is the Democrats and not the Republicans who have trampled on the Constitution and it's this President (Obama) and not Bush who seemingly cares not for it...

...I didn't like Bush either but compared to Obama he was not only much more Presidential but much more competent at and in the job...


Bush, Obama...and pretty much every president of the last 100 - 130 years has gone far beyond "the Constitutional powers granted him".

Once again...whether they be democrats or republicans...they have equally "trampled on the Constitution".

We do not live under constitutional federalism as the founders envisioned...We have constantly throughout our history had overreaching presidents, congresses, and judges...but "we the people" have allowed it.

Just governments get their authority from the consent of the governed...it's time we peacefully withdraw our consent...
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Well dolemitejb...I think you are factually incorrect here...The present administration has not only continued the Constitutional abuses of the previous administration but have gone far beyond...

Everything that they campaigned against...Gitmo, war, torture, big business favors(bailouts), etc...The Big O has continued...so yes they have "equaled" and surpassed the previous administration.


I agree and disagree.

On one hand, every president is worse than the previous president because they are all reluctant to try and un-do previously unconstitutional legislation. So in that regard, Obama is worse.

On the other hand, taken as a given that president's are unlikely to un-do the mistakes of the previous administrations, we should give greater consideration to the abuses of power initiated by only the current administration. In that regard, I think Bush deserves more blame than Obama for getting the ball rolling towards Constitutional abuse.

The health care bill and auto bailout were horrible, but a huge chunk of this administrations garbage is a continuation of problems created by Bush, Clinton, Daddy Bush, Reagan, Carter, etc...
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
quote:
Well dolemitejb...I think you are factually incorrect here...The present administration has not only continued the Constitutional abuses of the previous administration but have gone far beyond...

Everything that they campaigned against...Gitmo, war, torture, big business favors(bailouts), etc...The Big O has continued...so yes they have "equaled" and surpassed the previous administration.


I agree and disagree.

On one hand, every president is worse than the previous president because they are all reluctant to try and un-do previously unconstitutional legislation. So in that regard, Obama is worse.

On the other hand, taken as a given that president's are unlikely to un-do the mistakes of the previous administrations, we should give greater consideration to the abuses of power initiated by only the current administration. In that regard, I think Bush deserves more blame than Obama for getting the ball rolling towards Constitutional abuse.

The health care bill and auto bailout were horrible, but a huge chunk of this administrations garbage is a continuation of problems created by Bush, Clinton, Daddy Bush, Reagan, Carter, etc...


Well, I agree...and disagree...

He or more correctly this congress had the opportunity to end the Patriot Act. If I have this right...they wouldn't had to even vote on it...just let the built in sunsets happen.

Obama certainly could have been an influence in doing that...seeing how he and every single democrat campaigned against it.

Once again if I'm remembering the details correctly (I'll look them up later)...Not only did they not let the sunsets in the Patroit Act expire...they renewed and then extended the time period of review...
quote:
Well, I agree...and disagree...

He or more correctly this congress had the opportunity to end the Patriot Act. If I have this right...they wouldn't had to even vote on it...just let the built in sunsets happen.

Obama certainly could have been an influence in doing that...seeing how he and every single democrat campaigned against it.

Once again if I'm remembering the details correctly (I'll look them up later)...Not only did they not let the sunsets in the Patroit Act expire...they renewed and then extended the time period of review...


Of course, Obama has made no attempts to correct Bush's mistake. That's not really my point. I guess there's two ways to discuss how bad a president is. The first is to put them in reverse chronological order going back 160 years. That would be pretty accurate, and would unfortunately predict that the next president is going to be really awful.

The other method would be to look at how their administration fundamentally changed the game. The New Deal is nothing compared to what today's politicians do, but I still think FDR was horrible for setting the precedent of expansive government. Politicians have it in their DNA not to give back federal power, so the worst aren't necessarily the ones who maintain big government, but the ones who advance it by the greatest leaps and bounds.
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
Of course, Obama has made no attempts to correct Bush's mistake. That's not really my point. I guess there's two ways to discuss how bad a president is. The first is to put them in reverse chronological order going back 160 years. That would be pretty accurate, and would unfortunately predict that the next president is going to be really awful.

The other method would be to look at how their administration fundamentally changed the game. The New Deal is nothing compared to what today's politicians do, but I still think FDR was horrible for setting the precedent of expansive government. Politicians have it in their DNA not to give back federal power, so the worst aren't necessarily the ones who maintain big government, but the ones who advance it by the greatest leaps and bounds.


Well it really wasn't my point to rank "how bad" either of these guys are...I originally took issue with your statement, "You may not like the current President and Congress. I don't either. Still, their abuses of the Constitution have not begun to equal those of the previous administration."

I contend the abuses of this administration have indeed equaled and surpassed the previous administration.

He has continued and super-sized the Bush bailouts...

He and congress not only extended but strengthened the Patriot Act...

And add to that the health care bill and the so-called finance reform bill...and cap and trade on the table...etc.

And by the way, "so the worst aren't necessarily the ones who maintain big government, but the ones who advance it by the greatest leaps and bounds."

The central government mandating that an individual buy a product is a pretty big "leap".

And just to clarify, surely you are not making the argument that Obama is just "the ones who maintain big government"?
Last edited by Renegade Nation
quote:
Well it really wasn't my point to rank "how bad" either of these guys are...I originally took issue with your statement, "You may not like the current President and Congress. I don't either. Still, their abuses of the Constitution have not begun to equal those of the previous administration."


I could have worded that better. I over-stated the case while addressing another poster who genuinely believes that Bush followed the Constitution, but Obama completely ignores it.

quote:
And just to clarify, surely you are not making the argument that Obama is just "the ones who maintain big government"?


No, he's advancing it pretty quickly. My point in all this is not to defend Obama, or to distract from the mess he's creating. I'm really expressing frustration, and pointing our inaccuracies, to those who just decided big government was bad two years ago. It's better late than never, but given Bush's shameful track record, I just get irked at all of the sudden "OMG?!?!? What's happening to America?!?!?!? What about the Constitution?!?!?!?" Bush was really, really bad, and I maintain the he was, in some ways, still worse than Obama.
Shame on Bush for having an unemployment rate of 4%. Let’s give our current president and the left praise for getting unemployment up to 10%. It wasn’t until the left took over congress until the rate started rising. Maybe the left will get the rate to 15% before they get out of office. If so, we can really bash Bush then.
quote:
Shame on Bush for having an unemployment rate of 4%. Let’s give our current president and the left praise for getting unemployment up to 10%. It wasn’t until the left took over congress until the rate started rising. Maybe the left will get the rate to 15% before they get out of office. If so, we can really bash Bush then.


See, this is what I'm talking about. You are either blindly loyal to the Republican Party or don't understand boom-bust cycles. Unemployement would be this high if Bush could have had a third term. He created a gigantic mess. Obama's not fixing it, and is instead making it worse. Bush wouldn't have been able to fix it, and given his track record, would have also made it worse.
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
quote:
Shame on Bush for having an unemployment rate of 4%. Let’s give our current president and the left praise for getting unemployment up to 10%. It wasn’t until the left took over congress until the rate started rising. Maybe the left will get the rate to 15% before they get out of office. If so, we can really bash Bush then.


See, this is what I'm talking about. You are either blindly loyal to the Republican Party or don't understand boom-bust cycles. Unemployement would be this high if Bush could have had a third term. He created a gigantic mess. Obama's not fixing it, and is instead making it worse. Bush wouldn't have been able to fix it, and given his track record, would have also made it worse.


This mess goes back to Freddy and Fran with the dems pushing for home loans to people that couldn’t afford the homes they were buying. There have been videos post on here showing Republicans warning about the dangers of this practice back before the fallout but the left completely ignored the warnings (namely your buddies Barney Frank and Chris Dodd). So to say Bush caused this mess is completely wrong. There are plenty of other things you can blame Bush with but not the financial problems we face today.

I don’t think unemployment would be this high if Bush had gotten a third term. Employers have more reasons NOT to hire people in this anti-business environment and find themselves better off without more employees.
quote:
So to say Bush caused this mess is completely wrong. There are plenty of other things you can blame Bush with but not the financial problems we face today.


I still don't know if this is ignorance or denial. I'm not trying to give Frank, Dodd, or any Democrat a pass. They deserve much blame in this matter. I'm just trying to shed light on the fact the Bush was right in the middle of this. The guy was a crappy president.

From HUD's website:

quote:
The American Dream Downpayment Initiative (ADDI) was signed into law on December 16, 2003. The American Dream Downpayment Assistance Act authorizes up to $200 million annually for fiscal years 2004 - 2007.


HUD Info

Or here's this clip of Bush from 2002 where he talks about the need to eliminate down payments on homes.

Bush on Home Ownership

Here a USA Today article from '04:

Link

More than enough information exists to show that Bush not only got to ride the wave of the housing bubble, but hand a major part in starting it. He got to brag about the economic numbers it produced. It showed steady GDP growth and low unemployment, which every president wants. But, considering it was fueled by low interest rates and running the printing presses to finance his cowboy fantasy in Iraq, it eventually had to burst. That's where we are now.
Bush wasn’t enough of a fiscal conservative. That was one of his downfalls. His tax policies helped the economy in a big way but he spent way too much. Bush didn’t start Mae and Mac and like I said the Republicans try to warn about what ultimately happened. The war in Iraq, low interest rates, and printing money are indeed hurting us but your current president is keeping us in that predicament.

The democrats are the main culprits.

Shocking Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
I guess I should leave this alone, but your response is a little odd. You said:

quote:
So to say Bush caused this mess is completely wrong. There are plenty of other things you can blame Bush with but not the financial problems we face today.


I showed pretty clear evidence that Bush was directly involved in all the mess that lead us to where we are now. You made a half hearted concession that Bush spent too much, but then felt compelled to praise his tax policy, which has nothing to do with the housing bubbble. Here:

quote:
Bush wasn’t enough of a fiscal conservative. That was one of his downfalls. His tax policies helped the economy in a big way but he spent way too much.


Then there's this:

quote:
Bush didn’t start Mae and Mac


I don't think anyone said he did. Fannie was started in '38 and Freddie in '70 - FDR and Nixon. Does every politician who didn't "start" these organizations get a pass for mishandling them?

quote:
your current president is keeping us in that predicament.


I didn't vote for him, and he's doing a terrible job. This has never been my point. I'm trying to dispel the Republican myth that only Democrats caused the financial crisis.

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The democrats are the main culprits.


You say that after saying this:

quote:
The war in Iraq, low interest rates, and printing money are indeed hurting us


You acknowledge some of the main causes that existed when we had a Republican Congress and President and then in the next breathe blame Democrats. I really don't think you want to understand how the economy works, so I'll stop now.
I am confused as to how anyone can believe in anything Obama says or does. After hearing him lie and say his father was a WWII vet. any US Veteran or family member, or for that matter any of us who enjoy the freedom to express our comments here should be offended. No one is perfect, but he has had several "mis speaks." Obama - He who speaks with forked toung and mouth of two sides.
Do you really think they didn't or after seeing unrestricted liberalism's results are reluctant to admit that they voted for him? Actually the Democrats along with the most of the national media did a bang up job bashing Bush and demonizing Republicans, all Republicans, while eliminating all negative reporting or questions about Obama. That achieved many independents choosing to try Obama and the other votes came from people who cared not what Obama stood for or would do they voted because he called a Democrat and wasn't a Republican or because of his race and they wanted to see a minority achieve that political position. Just the same as Hillary got may votes strictly because she was a woman. That's just a natural thing that many would do and that became the overriding factor in who they would vote for.

Next election there will be similar results. There will be a base that will vote for Obama and Democrats just because they have been sold that Republicans are bad, Republicans are only for the RICH and Greedy, and Republicans are Biased and Racist. The problem for the Democrats is many independents or actual moderate and conservative Democrats have seen what their party has become and who has taken over the leadership of their party and they either will abstain from voting or might even, for once, cast their vote for a Republican just to put in check the liberals that have seized their party from where it was decades ago.

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