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quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
Why do people argue whether or not this is a Christian nation? It is obvious that our country was founded on Christian principals but for anyone who still wants to argue, the U.S. Supreme Court, in the unreversed case of Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 143 U.S. 437 (1892), held that “this is a Christian nation.”
So anyway, with the U.S. Supreme Court decision I think that means it's sort of official.

text of case


BFred07, you should have paid more attention to the link that jennifer posted, which said THIS about the Supreme Court's Holy Trinity opinion:

"In the Supreme Court's 1892 Holy Trinity Church vs. United States, Justice David Brewer wrote that "this is a Christian nation." Many Christians use this as evidence. However, Brewer wrote this in dicta, as a personal opinion only and does not serve as a legal pronouncement. Later Brewer felt obliged to explain himself: "But in what sense can [the United States] be called a Christian nation? Not in the sense that Christianity is the established religion or the people are compelled in any manner to support it. On the contrary, the Constitution specifically provides that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.' Neither is it Christian in the sense that all its citizens are either in fact or in name Christians. On the contrary, all religions have free scope within its borders. Numbers of our people profess other religions, and many reject all."

Here is what "dicta" means:
http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d047.htm

So, you see, one of the most widely-cited references to the "Christian nation" concept does not carry the water that so many Christian nationist theocratics wish it did.

If some prominent judge or politician were today to make the kind of observations that Judge Brewer did in the above-quoted explanation, he would udoubtedly be excoriated by the "religious right" as a traitor to the Constitution
Well Beter, It is much easier to find writings that attempt to discredit Christianity than to find ones in favor of the facts and if it were only the “Christian Nation” quote without all of the supporting language around it then I might not have used it BUT if you read the entire thing you will see many other parts which imply that our country was founded on Christian principles. We should all know that what Brewer was saying and what I am saying too is not meant to imply that our country has any official religion, I am just saying that the fundamentals of Christianity are what our founding fathers used as the backbone of our constitution.


A few other facts that might point to this would be that 24 of the 56 people who signed the Declaration of Independence held degrees from a bible school or seminary.


Patrick Henry once said: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians ... not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".


Samuel Adam’s said this while the Declaration of Independence was being signed: "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come."


John Han**** said: "Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us.”


According to John Quincy Adams, Christmas and the Fourth of July were intrinsically connected. On the Fourth of July, the Founders simply took the precepts of Christ which came into the world through His birth and incorporated those principles into civil government.


Any of the above quotes and statements can be googled and return numerous results so I have not posted any links since a simple copy & paste will return a wealth of information that is not limited to a single source.
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
Well Beter, It is much easier to find writings that attempt to discredit Christianity than to find ones in favor of the facts and if it were only the “Christian Nation” quote without all of the supporting language around it then I might not have used it BUT if you read the entire thing you will see many other parts which imply that our country was founded on Christian principles. We should all know that what Brewer was saying and what I am saying too is not meant to imply that our country has any official religion, I am just saying that the fundamentals of Christianity are what our founding fathers used as the backbone of our constitution.


A few other facts that might point to this would be that 24 of the 56 people who signed the Declaration of Independence held degrees from a bible school or seminary.


Patrick Henry once said: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians ... not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".


Samuel Adam’s said this while the Declaration of Independence was being signed: "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come."


John Han**** said: "Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us.”


According to John Quincy Adams, Christmas and the Fourth of July were intrinsically connected. On the Fourth of July, the Founders simply took the precepts of Christ which came into the world through His birth and incorporated those principles into civil government.


Any of the above quotes and statements can be googled and return numerous results so I have not posted any links since a simple copy & paste will return a wealth of information that is not limited to a single source.


Granted, many of the framers of the Constitution said many favorable things about Christianity, but those anecdotal quotations do not a country or a constitution make. It is what they all agreed to and signed off on--the Constitution--that determines the nature of the relationship between government and religion. And religion is nowhere presented in that document in the perspective that is entertained today by the theocrats who would re-institute government-directed school prayer or the singular posting of the 10 Commandments on public property.

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