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Do you agree or disagree and why?


According to the Scriptures, the "mark of the beast" is received on the right hand or forehead. With modern technology, it is very possible that this mark may be directly linked with a computer chip. But regardless if it is or isn't, everyone who is living immediately before the return of Christ will be forced to take this mark in order to buy or sell anything:



"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
But this mark, which will be universally issued around the entire world, MUST NOT be received under any circumstances, even by Christians! Scripture goes on to say:



"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: 'If ANYONE worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name. This calls for patient endurance on the part of THE SAINTS who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus' " (Rev. 14:9-12).
As the mark will definitely be issued one day, as Scripture declares, the eternal destiny for all who receive that mark will also be in accordance with Scripture! Do not be deceived about this. If you are a Christian, you MUST NOT take this mark or you, too, will miss the kingdom of God and suffer eternal torment over this single act of disobedience, according to Scripture! If the popular teaching of eternal security (also known as the perseverance of the saints) was true, Rev. 14:9-12 would be an impossibility! So don't be deceived by the teaching of eternal security. You must endure to the end to be saved (Matt. 10:22; Heb. 3:14; Rev. 2:10,11).


The people who make the eternal mistake of receiving the mark and worshiping the beast and/or his image will be deceived by accompanying miraculous signs and wonders:

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/markbeas.htm
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my thoughts,its those micro chips implanted under the skin that is very slowly being introduced. Introduced ever so innocently and convincing,,children at birth to help find a child if kidnapped, pedophiles and other criminals, to keep up with them.It will go from there,all of course to "improve" our life and simplify.
quote:
my thoughts,its those micro chips implanted under the skin that is very slowly being introduced. Introduced ever so innocently and convincing,,children at birth to help find a child if kidnapped, pedophiles and other criminals, to keep up with them.It will go from there,all of course to "improve" our life and simplify.



Hunny, paranoia is not fatal. We can get you some medication.
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
Please note its St. John the Devine, not the John of the Gospel. Revelations written 100 to 120 years after Christ. Good to be familiar with it, but remember too literal interpretations have predicted the end tine several times already.



Any relation to Andy divine?
Some predict it is this guy and his church:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,254360,00.html

DORAL, Fla. — Surrounded by a mob of news cameras, a group of smiling, well-dressed church members crowded into a South Beach storefront parlor on a recent muggy evening and got matching tattoos of their prophet's symbol: 666.

Members of Growing in Grace, a controversial religious sect headquartered in Doral, said they were following the example of their leader, Jose Luis De Jesus Miranda, who has claimed to be Jesus and recently declared himself the Antichrist.

Critics have called De Jesus a cult leader who manipulates followers. Church members say he has brought them happiness and spiritual fulfillment.

"This is backing up what I truly believe," said Alvaro Albarracin, 38, who heads a film production company and joined the church more than a decade ago. He showed a bandage that covered the freshly tattooed "666" on his forearm. "It's like a brand. It's like a sign."
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Revelations almost did not make it into the Bible due to questions about its authorship and validity (among other things). This book of the Bible is badly written, vague and purposefully misused by many evangelists, ministers and polititians.


Some think that Revelations or most of it has already happen.
quote:
Originally posted by (aka)PuckerupFrog:
Used for scare tactics, just like the devil.

the book mentions the mark of the beast, but i don't think the Antichrist is mentioned anywhere in that book....



My thinking on the antiChrist is that the antiChrist has always been here. What most people don't understand is that there's more than one antiChrist. And let me tell you how I get that. My definition of antiChrist is a person who does not believe in God, a person who believes in God but does not serve God, anyone who tries to discredit God, hypocrites claiming Christianity when they are not. I think you get the point.
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
my thoughts,its those micro chips implanted under the skin that is very slowly being introduced. Introduced ever so innocently and convincing,,children at birth to help find a child if kidnapped, pedophiles and other criminals, to keep up with them.It will go from there,all of course to "improve" our life and simplify.




Smurff, I always enjoy your replys. They always make me think. So here's what you made me think. You mentioned the microchips and we know it's really happening. Just the thoughts of it is scary. You know, most people don't understand Revelations, especially Bible scholars. Churches I've been to and speakers, preachers, and reverends, when I question them about Revelations, they don't want to talk about it. I asked one Church of Christ preacher why did they just touch on Revelations and not preach Revelations. His reply to me was it scares people away from the church. Anyway, you can decide for yourself on what I've told you but I really feel like most people really do not understand the book of Revelations. There is one thing that I do know. In the Bible it says do not add to or take away from the Book of LIfe and it makes you wonder about the cannot buy, sell, or trade without the mark of the beast. I've often wondered how the government kept up with the American people before the Social Security Card was invented. Anyone know?
quote:
Originally posted by vick13:
quote:
my thoughts,its those micro chips implanted under the skin that is very slowly being introduced. Introduced ever so innocently and convincing,,children at birth to help find a child if kidnapped, pedophiles and other criminals, to keep up with them.It will go from there,all of course to "improve" our life and simplify.



Hunny, paranoia is not fatal. We can get you some medication.



vick13, If you're not keeping up with the news, I can understand your statement. When you have the opportunity, read the Patriot Act, and micro chips are in the process of being tested on humans. They are already implanted in animals, vehicles. Yep, you can buy cars now and if somebody steals it, they can trace it. Not trying to be ugly at all here but it's been in the news for weeks.
quote:
Originally posted by traderconnections:
PBA!
That is like asking is batman real...some say yes...some say no....it depends on what you are incline to believe...
No! Proof! but someone said they saw elvis in the mall last night...I knew if he tried hard enough he would dig his way out...




This is true. It is interesting what people will believe and not believe. it really is interesting that people think our goverment can do no wrong. As the song says give me something to believe in.
Wow! My fiance has a friend who has tried to convince me for three years that he has the "microchip". I pressed on it and rubbed it for a moment. It did feel square and implanted, yet still, I deducted it might be a blackhead that needed popping, and I wanted to pop it. He would not let me pop it, much to my (should of been a dermatologist!) chagrin, and he protects it. In my personal field I would diagnose him as a schizophrenic, but I am a very open-minded person, and I won't completely discount what he says, as I wonder if mental "illness" isn't a segue to the supernatural.

But I really want to pop it.
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
I've often wondered how the government kept up with the American people before the Social Security Card was invented. Anyone know?


Social Security Numbers are for taxation and I believe it’s not a law that a citizen is required to have one. In Colonial America and Post Revolutionary taxes were paid under various tax acts. The tax collector collected taxes, (which were called scribes in ancient Egypt- which was how they did it too-by auditing households).
The tabulation of people from the Federal Government was from lists from churches, landowner list, occupation, freeman, estate, etc…

“In 1787, the founders of the country mandated that a census be taken every 10 years. And In 1790, the year of America’s first census – 3.9 million people were counted. But change occurred slowly. The information that was provided at that time was adequate to help people understand how the nation was growing.” http://www.census.gov


Didn't people in the 70's think the barcode was the mark of the beast? A microchip? If we are all Gods children all over the World, then those in third world countries are not privy to said technology and wouldn't it make sense to think that such a mark would affect all mankind, not just a group of people thinking the federal government is the boogie man?
1) The last book of the Bible is Revelation, not Revelations.

2) The book is mainly alegorical.

3) True, not all US citizens have SS numbers. I have lived realtively near the Amish/Mennonite enclaves in Tennessee and once did a report on them for nursing school. Some have no bank accounts. In fact, some really have no money, but barter for whatever they cannot grow or manufacture themselves.

4) Verichip implants are currently being used in nightclubs, high-tech industry, etc. See link below.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/microchipimplants
quote:
Hunny, paranoia is not fatal. We can get you some medication.


be ~funny~ if you like, try driving thru to Ct and see just how many service stations you will encounter that only deal in plastic,no checks,no cash, just plastic. Who would have thought that just a short 5 yrs ago you could find a business that would turn cash down? The microchips under the skin are presently being hailed in glory to indentification and the ease of location. Do a little reading on what the "future projected uses" are before you are so quick to the draw of sarcasm. I personally am not liking what I am reading about it.
I am not buying into the reasons being fed to the public to ease its way into our society.
I just recently finished a bible study on the book of Daniel by Beth Moore. She encourages everyone to study other theories on this book of the Bible, which is a precurser to the book of Revelation. In both books, the writer refers to the "little horn" as being a horrific leader, deceiver, and one who defies the church, and most bible scholars and theologists believe this to be the antichrist. As I said before, in this study she says this is based on the studies she has done in seminary and from other theologists that she has studied, and one should do further research. I plan to do this, but have not had the time as of yet.

As far as the chip thing is concerned, (this is my OPINION). I believe we are being conditioned to use things such as this. First, they want to put them in our pets in case they are lost or stolen, also our vehicles with the On-Star, the cards to get discounts at certain stores like CVS, RiteAid etc. so they can see all that we are purchasing, debit and credit only lanes at stores and gas stations...if I mentioned them all I would leave some out and the post would take up 10 pages. We are led to believe these are necessary to keep up with the fast pace the world is living in today. That is true, and I do use some of these things. When the government comes out and says that you have to get these chips implanted or else you can't purchase things or receive healthcare..etc, then that's where I have a problem. If you are a believer of the Bible, I do believe it says that we will take "the mark" knowingly. I, for one, believe this and all that is in the Bible, whether I understand its literall meanings or not. I believe that when God wants to reveal to me what certain passages that are beyond my understanding mean, He will do so. Again, these are my opinions and beliefs.
God Bless you all and have a great day!!!
I'm just picking. I know about the microchips. One of my doctors had a cat he hated. They'd put in a microchip in the thing. It was lost,he was thrilled. Till the person that found the cat tracked him down through the microchip stuff.

Basically I think you're all right. The whole homeland security stuff scares crap out of me. And the microchip thing is too "Logan's Run" for me to be complacent about.
quote:
Originally posted by vick13:
I'm just picking. I know about the microchips. One of my doctors had a cat he hated. They'd put in a microchip in the thing. It was lost,he was thrilled. Till the person that found the cat tracked him down through the microchip stuff.

Basically I think you're all right. The whole homeland security stuff scares crap out of me. And the microchip thing is too "Logan's Run" for me to be complacent about.


Here it is folks, the mark of the beast. $
quote:
Originally posted by Skeevers:
Wow! My fiance has a friend who has tried to convince me for three years that he has the "microchip". I pressed on it and rubbed it for a moment. It did feel square and implanted, yet still, I deducted it might be a blackhead that needed popping, and I wanted to pop it. He would not let me pop it, much to my (should of been a dermatologist!) chagrin, and he protects it. In my personal field I would diagnose him as a schizophrenic, but I am a very open-minded person, and I won't completely discount what he says, as I wonder if mental "illness" isn't a segue to the supernatural.

But I really want to pop it.




I have known people like yourself who looks at everything as just another blackhead. By looking at things the way you look at them it is easier to deal with. Some people just cannot and will not except TRUTH! No matter what.
quote:
Originally posted by bnt2001:
I just recently finished a bible study on the book of Daniel by Beth Moore. She encourages everyone to study other theories on this book of the Bible, which is a precurser to the book of Revelation. In both books, the writer refers to the "little horn" as being a horrific leader, deceiver, and one who defies the church, and most bible scholars and theologists believe this to be the antichrist. As I said before, in this study she says this is based on the studies she has done in seminary and from other theologists that she has studied, and one should do further research. I plan to do this, but have not had the time as of yet.

As far as the chip thing is concerned, (this is my OPINION). I believe we are being conditioned to use things such as this. First, they want to put them in our pets in case they are lost or stolen, also our vehicles with the On-Star, the cards to get discounts at certain stores like CVS, RiteAid etc. so they can see all that we are purchasing, debit and credit only lanes at stores and gas stations...if I mentioned them all I would leave some out and the post would take up 10 pages. We are led to believe these are necessary to keep up with the fast pace the world is living in today. That is true, and I do use some of these things. When the government comes out and says that you have to get these chips implanted or else you can't purchase things or receive healthcare..etc, then that's where I have a problem. If you are a believer of the Bible, I do believe it says that we will take "the mark" knowingly. I, for one, believe this and all that is in the Bible, whether I understand its literall meanings or not. I believe that when God wants to reveal to me what certain passages that are beyond my understanding mean, He will do so. Again, these are my opinions and beliefs.
God Bless you all and have a great day!!!


I am currently reading Alice In Wonderland.
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by vick13:
I'm just picking. I know about the microchips. One of my doctors had a cat he hated. They'd put in a microchip in the thing. It was lost,he was thrilled. Till the person that found the cat tracked him down through the microchip stuff.

Basically I think you're all right. The whole homeland security stuff scares crap out of me. And the microchip thing is too "Logan's Run" for me to be complacent about.


Here it is folks, the mark of the beast. $



Yep,I Can see it now $$$$$ FOR RICH on the forehead. .$for middle class on the right hand. .0 none for the poor on forhead and right hand.
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by traderconnections:
PBA!
That is like asking is batman real...some say yes...some say no....it depends on what you are incline to believe...
No! Proof! but someone said they saw elvis in the mall last night...I knew if he tried hard enough he would dig his way out...




This is true. It is interesting what people will believe and not believe. it really is interesting that people think our goverment can do no wrong. As the song says give me something to believe in.


I know batman is real. I have him on DVD. I do wonder about his relationship with Robin tho. One of them needs a girlfriend.
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by bnt2001:
I just recently finished a bible study on the book of Daniel by Beth Moore. She encourages everyone to study other theories on this book of the Bible, which is a precurser to the book of Revelation. In both books, the writer refers to the "little horn" as being a horrific leader, deceiver, and one who defies the church, and most bible scholars and theologists believe this to be the antichrist. As I said before, in this study she says this is based on the studies she has done in seminary and from other theologists that she has studied, and one should do further research. I plan to do this, but have not had the time as of yet.

As far as the chip thing is concerned, (this is my OPINION). I believe we are being conditioned to use things such as this. First, they want to put them in our pets in case they are lost or stolen, also our vehicles with the On-Star, the cards to get discounts at certain stores like CVS, RiteAid etc. so they can see all that we are purchasing, debit and credit only lanes at stores and gas stations...if I mentioned them all I would leave some out and the post would take up 10 pages. We are led to believe these are necessary to keep up with the fast pace the world is living in today. That is true, and I do use some of these things. When the government comes out and says that you have to get these chips implanted or else you can't purchase things or receive healthcare..etc, then that's where I have a problem. If you are a believer of the Bible, I do believe it says that we will take "the mark" knowingly. I, for one, believe this and all that is in the Bible, whether I understand its literall meanings or not. I believe that when God wants to reveal to me what certain passages that are beyond my understanding mean, He will do so. Again, these are my opinions and beliefs.
God Bless you all and have a great day!!!


I am currently reading Alice In Wonderland.



Poor Alice, she always wondered who would get her land.
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by traderconnections:
PBA!
That is like asking is batman real...some say yes...some say no....it depends on what you are incline to believe...
No! Proof! but someone said they saw elvis in the mall last night...I knew if he tried hard enough he would dig his way out...




This is true. It is interesting what people will believe and not believe. it really is interesting that people think our goverment can do no wrong. As the song says give me something to believe in.


I know batman is real. I have him on DVD. I do wonder about his relationship with Robin tho. One of them needs a girlfriend.




You sound like the lady who looks at everything as a blackhead. I guess you look at everything as a fairytale.
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by traderconnections:
PBA!
That is like asking is batman real...some say yes...some say no....it depends on what you are incline to believe...
No! Proof! but someone said they saw elvis in the mall last night...I knew if he tried hard enough he would dig his way out...




This is true. It is interesting what people will believe and not believe. it really is interesting that people think our goverment can do no wrong. As the song says give me something to believe in.


I know batman is real. I have him on DVD. I do wonder about his relationship with Robin tho. One of them needs a girlfriend.




You sound like the lady who looks at everything as a blackhead. I guess you look at everything as a fairytale.


I am not a lady, and I don't worship the Cheshire cat, but you can see him in a cathedral in England.
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by traderconnections:
PBA!
That is like asking is batman real...some say yes...some say no....it depends on what you are incline to believe...
No! Proof! but someone said they saw elvis in the mall last night...I knew if he tried hard enough he would dig his way out...




This is true. It is interesting what people will believe and not believe. it really is interesting that people think our goverment can do no wrong. As the song says give me something to believe in.


I know batman is real. I have him on DVD. I do wonder about his relationship with Robin tho. One of them needs a girlfriend.




You sound like the lady who looks at everything as a blackhead. I guess you look at everything as a fairytale.


I am not a lady, and I don't worship the Cheshire cat, but you can see him in a cathedral in England.



I did not say you were a lady I said you sound like the lady. Hey its a free america for now, and we have that right to worship or not to.
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
Please note its St. John the Devine, not the John of the Gospel. Revelations written 100 to 120 years after Christ. Good to be familiar with it, but remember too literal interpretations have predicted the end tine several times already.


NOPE.

"St. John the Divine" is a human title accorded to the same John the Apostle who wrote the Gospel of John and the epistles of I II and II John--one and the same person. There is no dispute within theological circles on this point. Do some research and you will see that this is so.
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by Teggere:
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by traderconnections:
PBA!
That is like asking is batman real...some say yes...some say no....it depends on what you are incline to believe...
No! Proof! but someone said they saw elvis in the mall last night...I knew if he tried hard enough he would dig his way out...




This is true. It is interesting what people will believe and not believe. it really is interesting that people think our goverment can do no wrong. As the song says give me something to believe in.


I know batman is real. I have him on DVD. I do wonder about his relationship with Robin tho. One of them needs a girlfriend.




You sound like the lady who looks at everything as a blackhead. I guess you look at everything as a fairytale.


I am not a lady, and I don't worship the Cheshire cat, but you can see him in a cathedral in England.



I did not say you were a lady I said you sound like the lady. Hey its a free america for now, and we have that right to worship or not to.


I know what you meant. Do you think I could rake in any dough if I start A Church of the Cheshire cat? I could at least get out of paying any taxes.
beternU,

Sorry, but the time lines and linguistics do not match. BTW, most titles are given by humans.

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/shades/demons/biblic/revelations2.htm
The author of Revelation calls himself John, and ecclesiastical tradition has held Saint John the Evangelist to be the author. However, in view of such evidence as the linguistic differences between Revelation and the Gospel of John, also traditionally ascribed to John the Evangelist, many scholars have been inclined to attribute Revelation to some other prominent early Christian writer. They suggest, for instance, Saint Mark or John the Elder.

http://www.ibiblio.org/Bahai/Texts/EN/Revelations/Revelations-1.html

The Revelation of Saint John the Devine

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