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<<<Tolerance currently occupies a very high place in Western societies: it is considered gauche, even boorish, to question it. In The Intolerance of Tolerance, however, questioning tolerance -- or, at least, contemporary understandings of tolerance -- is exactly what D. A . Carson does.

Carson traces the subtle but enormous shift in the way we have come to understand tolerance over recent years -- from defending the rights of those who hold different beliefs to affirming all beliefs as equally valid and correct. He looks back at the history of this shift and discusses its implications for culture today, especially its bearing on democracy, discussions about good and evil, and Christian truth claims.

Using real-life examples that will sometimes arouse laughter and sometimes make the blood boil, Carson argues not only that the "new tolerance" is socially dangerous and intellectually debilitating but also that it actually leads to genuine intolerance of all who struggle to hold fast to their beliefs.>>>

http://christianreader.com/the...erance-of-tolerance/

 

"[Affirming all beliefs as equally valid and correct" is the perverse version of "tolerance" insisted upon by all too many persons in our "enlightened" era. Examined intelligently, this view is seen for the nonsense that it is and it is about time someone addressed in detail the illogicality of such a view and the absurd and adverse consequences it produces.

 

The very recent dust-up concerning the Duck Commander patriarch's views on homosexuality is an example of the misapplication of "intolerance."   Phil Robertson, in expressing his views about homosexuality as sin, is not being intolerant, as the LGBT (or at least  LG and B elements of that acronym) or the A&E network representatives would assert.  He holds to a viewpoint on that subject that he has developed from his study of the New Testament teaching on homosexuality. He cited scripture to that effect, with a near-verbatim recitation of I Corinthians 6:9.    Those who have knee-jerkedly attacked him as "intolerant" will not be satisfied until their perverse concept of "tolerance" is accepted, namely their demand that any and all persons who address the subject of homosexuality must do so in a manner that accepts it as "natural",  "normal" and of equal merit with homosexuality. Do not expect Phil Robertson to accede to that intolerant demand.   

 

I yam what I yam and that's all I yam--but it is enough!

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The point is he is in a position of admiration (hard as that is for me to believe) and he should keep remarks like he made to himself. Free speech is one thing, using it to demean a group of people is another. This just adds more ammunition for bullying and spreading ignorance. Think about this - Hitler used his "free speech" to brainwash an entire nation into believing that Jewish people should be executed and look what happened.

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No David, he should not be forced to keep his mouth shut.  He did not call for any actions against the gay community, he simply stated that he thought that it was sinful.  Actually he went on to say he loved everyone and did not hold it against anyone, for he himself had been there. Unlike hitler, he never called for anyone to be hanged or burned, don't confuse the issue.

The concept that he should be kept quiet because of who he is is preporosterous.  Would you silence every Hollywood elitist or rock star who wished to express their opinion if it disagreed with him?

Second, A&E is punishing him (likely it won't be too effective, if you know anything about Mr. Phil it is that he could care less) for something he gave an opinion on, not a call to arms.  The backlash against them will be tremendous, since the popularity of Phil and his family is somewhat overwhelming.

I say let people live and do what they wish, because God is the one who should be the judge, but I can have my own beliefs without harming you or any other who believe differently.

Last edited by teyates
Originally Posted by David L.:

The point is he is in a position of admiration (hard as that is for me to believe) and he should keep remarks like he made to himself. Free speech is one thing, using it to demean a group of people is another. This just adds more ammunition for bullying and spreading ignorance. Think about this - Hitler used his "free speech" to brainwash an entire nation into believing that Jewish people should be executed and look what happened.

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You guys certainly don't keep your lifestyles to yourselves but want to silence his religious convictions?  You have the right to tolerance but you don't have the right to make another person accept your lifestyle nor do you have the right to silence him.  You might think he is ignorant, no one is stopping you from making such a statement.  You won't be fired.  No one is suggesting that you as a homosexual are making hateful, "anti-Christian" statements.  Not one is comparing your intolerance at his Christian views as in line with Hitler. 

Last edited by Chuck Farley
Originally Posted by David L.:

Well I'm just saying that what he said is harmful. I read the quotes and the bestiality comments were uncalled for.

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First, David, like Phil, I'm not going to say anyone is or isn't going to hell. I'll let God handle that.

 

But second, while most find bestiality is abhorrent, the U.S. Army just did away with it's prohibition of such. Ostensibly, it was because the bestiality clause was in the same legal prohibition as homosexuality. Of course, even if bestiality isn't a crime in the military, it is on state and local levels, and the military supports those laws. In other words, your Boston Terrier isn't going to be too consenting, so it remains wrong at every level except for the military.

"Human rights?" "Civil rights?" Are we really addressing THESE issues when such novel propositions as "same-sex marriage" have emerged only in the last 50 years or so? Since when, in all prior human history, has same-sex sexual activity been deemed a "right" of any kind by any of the great champions of human rights and civil rights?

Jeff Jacoby intelligently addresses this question:

http://www.jeffjacoby.com/6566...

Maybe because it has been such a taboo subject that people were afraid to discuss it. Are you suggesting we return to the dark ages? I'm sure Phil Robinson probably doesn't have any gay friends or family (that he knows of) or he would not be spewing this talk. More people actually know that some of their friends and family are gay now and news flash - they realize that they are just like other decent law-abiding citizens! That is why the majority of Americans now support gay marriage. I do not consider myself an activist, far from it, but yes, it is a matter of treating fellow human beings with respect.

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Last edited by David L.

I thought this was interesting!

Christians Tired of Being Misrepresented
Our position: We just read some on the brouhaha created by a Duck Dynasty "star's" derogatory comments about gays being on the same level as those who commit bestiality (and a long list of other sinners) and therefore are barred from God's kingdom. After his negative comments and condemnations, he added that he was just expressing his beliefs and that he loves everyone.

In the majority of cases we've encountered, when someone expresses a slam and then concludes with "just say'in" or "it's just my opinion" they are cowardly attempting to get their negative jabs in AND immediately claim immunity -- in effect, "I just called you a f**king *****" but hey, I can't be criticized or held accountable for my words because, after all, "I'm just say'in" "it's just my opinion." No sale! Nonsense. Merely using discounting phrases does not absolve one from responsibility for one's words. If you say it, you own it. Be willing to pay or remain silent.

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Originally Posted by David L.:

Maybe because it has been such a taboo subject that people were afraid to discuss it. Are you suggesting we return to the dark ages? I'm sure Phil Robinson probably doesn't have any gay friends or family (that he knows of) or he would not be spewing this talk. More people actually know that some of their friends and family are gay now and news flash - they realize that they are just like other decent law-abiding citizens! That is why the majority of Americans now support gay marriage. I do not consider myself an activist, far from it, but yes, it is a matter of treating fellow human beings with respect.

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So you speculate that "Maybe because it has been such a taboo subject that people were afraid to discuss it."  Well, David, they discussed it sufficiently that they were able to pass laws against it in many societies.  See this link for a lengthy list of  nations that have outlawed "sodomy" or "buggery".  Someone must have been talking to get all these laws on the books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law

Yes, because we are a minority group that has been silenced, ridiculed and discriminated against for ages. Why? Because so-called "Christians" try to impose their laws and beliefs on everyone else. Thankfully times are changing and people who understand the right thing to do know that discrimination is not good, even if that group only represents a small segment of the population. Everyone is equal!

 

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Last edited by David L.
Originally Posted by David L.:

I thought this was interesting!

Christians Tired of Being Misrepresented
Our position: We just read some on the brouhaha created by a Duck Dynasty "star's" derogatory comments about gays being on the same level as those who commit bestiality (and a long list of other sinners) and therefore are barred from God's kingdom. After his negative comments and condemnations, he added that he was just expressing his beliefs and that he loves everyone.

In the majority of cases we've encountered, when someone expresses a slam and then concludes with "just say'in" or "it's just my opinion" they are cowardly attempting to get their negative jabs in AND immediately claim immunity -- in effect, "I just called you a f**king *****" but hey, I can't be criticized or held accountable for my words because, after all, "I'm just say'in" "it's just my opinion." No sale! Nonsense. Merely using discounting phrases does not absolve one from responsibility for one's words. If you say it, you own it. Be willing to pay or remain silent.

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___

I am saying it and I own it, as follows:

 

Those of us who rely on the Bible as God's word correctly interpret it as condemning homosexuality, irrespective of the various fatuous and distorted interpretations attempted by homosexuals who resent the scriptural denunciation of homosexuality. This does not mean that I am a "hater".  It does mean that I accept the truth as taught in scripture.  I am not "just sayin'" in some peripheral sense of communication.  I sincerely believe what I have written here. Even if it is true that the majority of Americans "support gay marriage", that in no way negates what the Bible has to say about sexual relationships. Truth is not determined by a majority vote of Americans or of any other persons of any other national identity.

You are entitled to your beliefs and your bible. I personally don't believe the bible was written as a lawbook for humankind and it really has caused nothing but trouble and turmoil for decades. One day man will destroy our Earth and it will all be a result of people fighting over their religions.

 

I have complete trust in my heart and mind.

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Last edited by David L.
Originally Posted by David L.:

Yes, because we are a minority group that has been silenced, ridiculed and discriminated against for ages. Why? Because so-called "Christians" try to impose their laws and beliefs on everyone else. Thankfully times are changing and people who understand the right thing to do know that discrimination is not good, even if that group only represents a small segment of the population. Everyone is equal!

 

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___

So in saying that you now admit that you can not support your previous assertion that, "Maybe because it has been such a taboo subject that people were afraid to discuss it."

Originally Posted by David L.:

I intended to say that religious leaders have placed such ridicule on homosexuals that it caused people to be afraid of the topic and not understand it. Maybe I didn't express myself well, Sorry.

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Which shows just how wildly speculative you can get in your unsuccessful attempt to deny the long historicity of societal condemnation of homosexuality.

I don't see how a rational person could have complete trust in his/her heart and mind...at least the heart part. How many times have you read of a child or aged person or the handicapped being abused and thought to yourself that you'd like to make sure the abuser never did that to anyone again? If we followed through on that, we would live in a lawless land.

"[Affirming all beliefs as equally valid and correct" is the perverse version of "tolerance" insisted upon by all too many persons in our "enlightened" era. Examined intelligently, this view is seen for the nonsense that it is and it is about time someone addressed in detail the illogicality of such a view and the absurd and adverse consequences it produces.

 

I agree with this whole heartedly! Phil Robertson and his views should not be tolerated by society. We should challenge all forms of degradation and ignorance. Regardless of whether it hurts a Christians feelings or not. Just because Christians believe homosexuality to be a sin does not mean that the rest of us have to just tolerate their bigotry towards homosexuals without speaking up. I will not be tolerant of those that try and deny the equal rights of homosexuals based on their own personal religious beliefs. Not only should we as society speak out against such hate speech, we should also speak up for those being bullied by the bible thumpers. 

 

 

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