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Originally Posted by jtdavis:

If that were true, you would know better.  It's apparent by your desire to make everything easy and free for all that you don't.  Stealing from responsible citizens who are not a burden on society to pay those don't contribute anything is not a good plan.   No, no, no is not strong enough, HELL NO!

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Straight out of the mouth of Fox (or is it Faux) news. They have trained you well.

I suppose you feel that corporate welfare is a good thing to do?


I've been around longer than Fox News.  Where did receive training?  Al Sharpton's school of gimmethats?  Or did the Union lobotomize you?  Either way, you lost the ability to think for yourself a long time ago.

If that were true, you would know better.  It's apparent by your desire to make everything easy and free for all that you don't.  Stealing from responsible citizens who are not a burden on society to pay those don't contribute anything is not a good plan.   No, no, no is not strong enough, HELL NO!

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Where have I advocated stealing?

Originally Posted by jtdavis:

If that were true, you would know better.  It's apparent by your desire to make everything easy and free for all that you don't.  Stealing from responsible citizens who are not a burden on society to pay those don't contribute anything is not a good plan.   No, no, no is not strong enough, HELL NO!

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Where have I advocated stealing?


You advocate an increase in my taxes to pay for more freebies to the gimmies.  Where do you think the money that pays for these needless programs comes from, the rainbow farting money unicorn?

Where do you think the money that pays for these needless programs comes from, the rainbow farting money unicorn?

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What about corporate welfare? The companies making billions, not owing any tax and getting millions back in some rebate? You don't say anything about that.  What about corporate farm substities? Are they ok? you don't say anything against them. You only care about some poor person eating.

Some people would have you believe that there is no help for someone who wants to better themselves. I know for a fact that Pell Grants have been around since the mid eighties.

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I think the Pell Grants started sometime in the seventy's. Eligibility has changed from time to time. About the year 2000, a woman with three kids and a husband who made about $12 per hour lost her Pell grant and had to borrow money to finish college. Four or five years ago, several billion dollars was taken away from the program.

Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Where do you think the money that pays for these needless programs comes from, the rainbow farting money unicorn?

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What about corporate welfare? The companies making billions, not owing any tax and getting millions back in some rebate? You don't say anything about that.  What about corporate farm substities? Are they ok? you don't say anything against them. You only care about some poor person eating.


There is no such thing as corporate welfare.  It's made up nonsense pushed by libs.  Corporations only get to keep more of THEIR monies.  They cost me nothing.  Can't say the same about democrats, they just take and take and take.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Where do you think the money that pays for these needless programs comes from, the rainbow farting money unicorn?

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What about corporate welfare? The companies making billions, not owing any tax and getting millions back in some rebate? You don't say anything about that.  What about corporate farm substities? Are they ok? you don't say anything against them. You only care about some poor person eating.


There is no such thing as corporate welfare.  It's made up nonsense pushed by libs.  Corporations only get to keep more of THEIR monies.  They cost me nothing.  Can't say the same about democrats, they just take and take and take.

Actually not true.  Corporations get tax breaks and incentives to locate in communities all under a different name but welfare all the same.  There was a recent study about Memphis and their tax freeze programs for businesses Nashville gave out 5 Memphis gave out 415 and complains about low revenues.  So in this case the tax free status cost the tax payers more because we have to pay more because they pay less and this goes on with the federal government also.  Before JT starts I am against both personal government assistance for life and why tax payers had to pay for a stadium so some millionaire could run a business.  Meanwhile Mr small business needs to foot his whole start-up bill.  If Memphis had all the money they have spent on downtown boondoggles they could have made the entire metropolitan area millionaires. This goes on in every city no matter the size and with the federal government.

Actually not true.  Corporations get tax breaks and incentives to locate in communities all under a different name but welfare all the same. 

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If that is true you can say taxpayers actually get something in return for that welfare in the form of jobs and all that comes to that area because people are employed. All you get from 'private citizen' welfare are more welfare recipients and bi***** for more welfare.

Last edited by Bestworking

There is no such thing as corporate welfare.  It's made up nonsense pushed by libs.  Corporations only get to keep more of THEIR monies.  They cost me nothing.  Can't say the same about democrats, they just take and take and take.

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Have you ever saw the old cartoon about the ostrich with his head in the hole in the sand. you have it beat.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Actually not true.  Corporations get tax breaks and incentives to locate in communities all under a different name but welfare all the same. 

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If that is true you can say taxpayers actually get something in return for that welfare in the form of jobs and all that comes to that area because people are employed. All you get from 'private citizen' welfare are more welfare recipients and bi***** for more welfare.

Yea, Colbert County got a lot from the rail car plant   My point is that tax payers should not be footing the bill to build plants and stadiums etc.  if the business model is sound then venture capital would be knocking on the door.  I also disagree with lifetime entitlements!

 

Last edited by HIFLYER2

This? I don't live there so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Not a lot of jobs, but in this dead economy it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

 

Shoals railcar plant announces expansion and new jobs

Posted 4:32 pm, December 8, 2014, by

 

COLBERT COUNTY, Ala. (WHNT) – More jobs are headed to northwest Alabama, as a leading railcar provider announced plans to expand their operations.

Monday afternoon, FreightCar America released plans in Cherokee for a multimillion dollar manufacturing expansion.

Company officials addressed a host of government leaders, including Alabama Governor Robert Bentley.

They made the announcement flanked by the two best selling railcars from the Colbert County FreightCar America plant.

The company started production in the plant in July of 2013, and already needs to expand.

Company leaders say the expansion will help alleviate a rising backlog in railcar production demands.

“Adding jobs anytime in this economy is very positive.  And in this facility, it is very gratifying because of the history and what`s gone on here.  But now it is going in the right direction,” explained Forest Wright, president of the Shoals Economic Development Authority.

FreightCar America officials plan to spend $10-million to add a third production line.

The expansion will lead to an addition of more than 200-jobs, giving FreightCar America a total of 650 workers at the facility.

“This will allow that many people to be able to feed their families, and I’m just so happy for this part of the state when we see new jobs coming into the area,” stated Governor Bentley.

The company will be able to produce up to 8,000 rail cars per year when the third production line is fully operational.

Managers hope to be done with construction by late spring or early summer of 2015.

A job fair for FreightCar America’s expansion will be held on January 6th at the Marriott Shoals Conference Center in Florence.

http://whnt.com/2014/12/08/sho...ansion-and-new-jobs/

 

 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

This? I don't live there so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Not a lot of jobs, but in this dead economy it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

 

Shoals railcar plant announces expansion and new jobs

Posted 4:32 pm, December 8, 2014, by

 

COLBERT COUNTY, Ala. (WHNT) – More jobs are headed to northwest Alabama, as a leading railcar provider announced plans to expand their operations.

Monday afternoon, FreightCar America released plans in Cherokee for a multimillion dollar manufacturing expansion.

Company officials addressed a host of government leaders, including Alabama Governor Robert Bentley.

They made the announcement flanked by the two best selling railcars from the Colbert County FreightCar America plant.

The company started production in the plant in July of 2013, and already needs to expand.

Company leaders say the expansion will help alleviate a rising backlog in railcar production demands.

“Adding jobs anytime in this economy is very positive.  And in this facility, it is very gratifying because of the history and what`s gone on here.  But now it is going in the right direction,” explained Forest Wright, president of the Shoals Economic Development Authority.

FreightCar America officials plan to spend $10-million to add a third production line.

The expansion will lead to an addition of more than 200-jobs, giving FreightCar America a total of 650 workers at the facility.

“This will allow that many people to be able to feed their families, and I’m just so happy for this part of the state when we see new jobs coming into the area,” stated Governor Bentley.

The company will be able to produce up to 8,000 rail cars per year when the third production line is fully operational.

Managers hope to be done with construction by late spring or early summer of 2015.

A job fair for FreightCar America’s expansion will be held on January 6th at the Marriott Shoals Conference Center in Florence.

http://whnt.com/2014/12/08/sho...ansion-and-new-jobs/

 

 

Well I stand corrected about this when I left Colbert County they were talking jail time for the guys who pushed for it.  But the fact remains at least in Memphis we have several albatrosses around our "the tax payers neck" that should have never been built or financed with government money.

http://www.smartcitymemphis.co...ts-in-pilot-request/

Last edited by HIFLYER2
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Hiflyer, you sorta nailed it. If an American company starts another plant in a foreign country, can the expenses be deducted from American taxes?

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In general, a company will expense costs of building the plant in the foreign country in that country, to reduce taxes paid in that nation.  Certain expenses such as travel to the other nation from the US and moving assets to the foreign nation will count against taxes paid in this nation.  The latter are usually minor.    

Again, that 'free' word.  Obama and the rest of his liberal friends are going to run out to the White House lawn and pick the money for this monstrosity off the White House Money tree.  I forgot - there is no White House money tree.  Just Joe tax payer to foot the bill.

 

Seriously, though, this is nothing but a 'get out the vote' event.  Just ask the illegal immigrants what Obama was willing to do for them six years or so ago to get the minority vote.  He had control of government for two years and left the immigrant population hanging.   Democrats see more and more youth leaning republican and need to leave a bad taste in their mouth's.  They know good and well that the Republican-controlled House and Senate will never pass this idiotic plan of his.  So, when the next election comes up, the Democrats will go all out to throw the Republicans under the bus for not supporting college programs.

 

Some people's parents never taught them the idea that nothing is for free. Someone has to pay for it.   I love the way he says it's based on the Tennessee program but he has no mention of a national lottery to financially support it like Tennessee does.

Last edited by Capt James T
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

How much did Alabama pay for that plant in Huntsville that is gonna pay $10 per hour on the line?

 

It makes me laugh when people complain about local government giving tax breaks to businesses to help convince them to locate in their area and bring new jobs.  Some people don't get the fact that there are multiple cities all around the south that are competing for those jobs.  Why not be happy about the fact that the local governments are working hard to convince these businesses to locate here in North Alabama instead of in West Tennessee or south Mississippi or north Georgia?  They are in no way scratching the backs of the business owners.  They are actually looking out for the local citizens by bringing in new jobs.

 

 

Originally Posted by jtdavis:

How much did Alabama pay for that plant in Huntsville that is gonna pay $10 per hour on the line?

____________________________________________________

 

The plant is expected to open in 2015 with 280 employees and reach full production in 2021. Remington's development deal with Huntsville guarantees the company will create a minimum of 1,868 new jobs at an average annual salary of $42,000.

http://www.al.com/business/ind...deal_why_reming.html

 

I think my calculator said that the salary would be about $20.00/hr. Not too shabby for a beginning salary!

Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

How much did Alabama pay for that plant in Huntsville that is gonna pay $10 per hour on the line?

 

It makes me laugh when people complain about local government giving tax breaks to businesses to help convince them to locate in their area and bring new jobs.  Some people don't get the fact that there are multiple cities all around the south that are competing for those jobs.  Why not be happy about the fact that the local governments are working hard to convince these businesses to locate here in North Alabama instead of in West Tennessee or south Mississippi or north Georgia?  They are in no way scratching the backs of the business owners.  They are actually looking out for the local citizens by bringing in new jobs.

 

+++

 

I'm with you there Capt, but compared to what Bass Pro Shops was asking in Lauderdale and Limestone Counties, how much $$ is Cabela's asking to locate in Madison County?

 

Fine dividing line between incentives and bribery.

 

Even Decatur is investing more $$ than Madison County with no guarantee of a 15% employment return.  Why?

Last edited by budsfarm

Remington's development deal with Huntsville guarantees the company will create a minimum of 1,868 new jobs at an average annual salary of $42,000.

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I hope that is correct. I heard that included every employee, but on the actual line it would be $10.  You can't get skilled labor in Huntsville for $10, for $21, you can. 

Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Remington's development deal with Huntsville guarantees the company will create a minimum of 1,868 new jobs at an average annual salary of $42,000.

----------------

I hope that is correct. I heard that included every employee, but on the actual line it would be $10.  You can't get skilled labor in Huntsville for $10, for $21, you can. 

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remington has already stated 'the average salary' includes the pay to 'upper management'. those 42,000 $/year jobs were a farce.

Originally Posted by budsfarm:
Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by jtdavis:
 

I'm with you there Capt, but compared to what Bass Pro Shops was asking in Lauderdale and Limestone Counties, how much $$ is Cabela's asking to locate in Madison County?

 __________________________________________________

 

Then compare any of that to what Florence paid Gander Mountain to locate here.  How much was that? Big fat NOTHING.  Gander Mountain does not traffic in corporate shakedowns like so many other businesses do.

 

Originally Posted by budsfarm:
Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

How much did Alabama pay for that plant in Huntsville that is gonna pay $10 per hour on the line?

 

It makes me laugh when people complain about local government giving tax breaks to businesses to help convince them to locate in their area and bring new jobs.  Some people don't get the fact that there are multiple cities all around the south that are competing for those jobs.  Why not be happy about the fact that the local governments are working hard to convince these businesses to locate here in North Alabama instead of in West Tennessee or south Mississippi or north Georgia?  They are in no way scratching the backs of the business owners.  They are actually looking out for the local citizens by bringing in new jobs.

 

+++

 

I'm with you there Capt, but compared to what Bass Pro Shops was asking in Lauderdale and Limestone Counties, how much $$ is Cabela's asking to locate in Madison County?

 

Fine dividing line between incentives and bribery.

 

Even Decatur is investing more $$ than Madison County with no guarantee of a 15% employment return.  Why?

i dont know the specifics on the amounts, but you cant compare bass pro to remington.  Remington brings jobs which, in turns brings in more disposable income that 'might' mean more is spent in an area and an increase in sales tax revenue generated.  The again, those employees might live in florence or decatur and shop there. 

 

bass pro brings in direct sales tax dollars to the city they locate in, as well as the new jobs.  I would think places like that could possibly demand a higher incentive to locate somewhere.  Just my opinion though.

 

 

Didn't mean to compare Remington to BassPro.  Manufacturing to retail sales.  You're right.  You can't compare the two.

 

My following comments are rhetoric.  Not really asking for an answer, just question I think about. 

 

My comparison was apples to apples.  When they offer basically the same thing, why does BP require incentives while Cabela's [locating in Madison County] does not?  I mean not to the extent BP does like the gift of land, etc, etc.

 

You remember one of the conditions for BP/Sweetwater to locate in Florence was that they wanted Veteran's Park.  Wanted it or they would look elsewhere!  Florence pretty much said KMA. 

 

So then they wanted Decatur/Morgan/Madison to give them land there near 65/565 and oddly enough, the same name Sweetwater.  Failed again with land owners and developers pointing fingers at one another though governmental entities were standing there with blank checks.

 

No telling how much $$ pizzed away so far on BassPro with zero results.

 
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Does Veteran's Park belong to Florence or to TVA?

 

+++

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?h...ans+park+florence+al

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I looked at that site. Didn't find the answer. I thought I remembered that it was TVA  property and Florence had a lease on it.

 

+++

 

Try this one

 

http://news.google.com/newspap...&pg=2890,1933291

 

or others here:

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?h...terans+Park+Florence

 

Or type in "BassPro Veterans Park Florence AL" in your search engine

From TVA's Reservoir Redevelopment Plan Scoping Document:

 

"Wilson Dam Reservation, approximately 400 acres, lies on both sides of the Tennessee
River and Wilson Dam and serves primarily for recreational use and to protect the integrity
of the dam itself. Veterans Park, on the north side of the river and under a permanent
recreation easement to the City of Florence, occupies a portion of this reservation."

 

http://www.tva.gov/environment...s/scoping_report.pdf

  

2005 study: Florence loses $14M on Bass Pro

 

December 5, 2006 5:30 PM


Study: City could lose millions on Bass Pro
http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20...rchID=73265064828712
By Todd Twilley Staff Writer
Last Updatedctober 12. 2005 12:44AM Published: October 12. 2005 3:30AM
Photo caption: This is the Bass Pro Shop in Nashville at Opry Mills. A study suggests that Florence could lose more than $14 million by providing incentives needed to lure Bass Pro Shops to the Shoals. DANIEL GILES/File
A QUICK LOOK
# The issue: The city is examining whether incentives for a Bass Pro Shop would be a beneficial long-term investment.
# What's new: An impact study conducted by UNA professors reveals the city could lose more than $14 million over the next 15 years unless additional development accompanies the project.
# What's next: Mayor Bobby Irons said a new study needs to be conducted that will include potential benefits of other developments near Bass Pro.
(DEAD LINK)http://www.timesdaily.com/html/economic.htm" target="_blank">Click here to read the full economic impact analysis (DEAD LINK)
FLORENCE -- The city could lose more than $14 million by providing incentives needed to lure Bass Pro Shops to the Shoals, based on projections in an economic impact study (Click here to read the full economic impact analysis.). (DEAD LINK)
The study was conducted by three University of North Alabama professors who were asked to review the feasibility of Florence providing incentives of nearly $17.9 million to Bass Pro Shops.
The money would be used to build a 110,000 square-foot facility in Veterans Park. Bass Pro would occupy the building under a lease agreement with the city.
A Veterans Park attraction is part of an economic development project that includes two Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail courses, a four-star quality hotel, and a renovated Renaissance Tower and conference center.
The professors who conducted the feasibility study say factors such as additional retail growth around the Bass Pro facility in Florence or development of other large-scale outdoors stores in the region could affect their projections.
Bass Pro frequently seeks financial support from communities when deciding whether to do business there. Numerous communities have formed partnerships with the business and have reported positive results, in many cases.
The study conducted by the UNA professors implies that the project might not be as productive in the Shoals.
Bass Pro is an upscale outdoors retail store that sells an assortment of merchandise and often comes with a fishing facility, aquarium, waterfalls and other amenities. Bass Pro is considered a tourist attraction in many communities.
"It is unlikely … that sufficient revenue will be generated by the proposed lease arrangement and the increased net sales tax for the city of Florence to adequately service the debt from the incentive package," authors of the study wrote in their final presentation.
UNA professors Jim Couch, Keith Malone and Douglas Barrett conducted the study at the request of the Shoals Economic Development Authority and Florence Mayor Bobby Irons. The study cost $3,000.
SEDA released the study to the TimesDaily on Tuesday in answer to an Alabama public records request.
Irons said he doesn't believe the study covered the scope of the project. He said Bass Pro would not be a stand-alone project.
"We are looking at it from a retail center and retail development," Irons said of the changes in scope.
The study looked only at the chances of Florence recovering its investment from a cash-flow perspective.
If the city paid for Bass Pro's facility, it would have to borrow $17.9 million with an interest rate of 7 percent, according to the study.
After interest and costs associated with securing a bond, the incentive could top $20 million, the study projects.
The study considered the area from which customers could be drawn, the new sales tax revenue the city would receive from the business, and the impact of the 220 potential jobs created by the retailer.
The professors concluded that the potential customer base would be negatively impacted by Bass Pro stores already operating in Nashville and Memphis as well as a facility that is in the works near Birmingham.
They added that another negative involves the limited amount of disposal income available to potential customers in the region.
The study used published sales figures from a Bass Pro Shop that opened in Oklahoma City two years ago. The professors said they adjusted the figures from Oklahoma City to better reflect the market conditions in the Shoals.
The authors said there are several factors that could make the project more or less favorable, especially considering the study period encompasses 15-year projections.
The professors said that additional development spawned by Bass Pro opening in Florence could make the project more feasible economically. They said in an interview Tuesday, however, that the scope of that development would have to result in an additional $14 million in sales tax revenue during the 15-year period.
Irons said that the authors of the study are making a lot of assumptions by saying it would take additional development that creates an additional $14 million in sales tax in order to make the project feasible.
Irons said a private developer had entered the picture since the study was assembled and that the authors of the study didn't have a complete picture of what the developer is planning, if Bass Pro comes to Florence.
The professors said they completed the task they were asked to do by Irons and SEDA Executive Director Forrest Wright. They consider the report complete.
The UNA professors give the tourism marketing of Bass Pro a passing mention in the study, but said in an interview that the tourism impact would not be significant for the Shoals.
"It's the same thing as with the tower. People are not going to come here for a Bass Pro. They may go while they are here but will not come here and stay overnight to go to a Bass Pro," Barrett said.
Todd Twilley can be reached at 740-5728 or todd.twilley@timesdaily.com
 

 

Last edited by budsfarm

 

 

Please note:  the links imbedded within the post no longer work.  But if you're really interested, a search of the TD archives might turn up something.

 

I am certain LOCALS will remember this fiasco well.  Just like LOCALS know the origin of the developers name "Sweetwater."

 

In the second link I posted, politicians were discussing that Florence citizens be given a vote on whether or not to "give" BP the Veterans site.  I note that Condendah's link is some 4 years later.

Last edited by budsfarm

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