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quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
What4 Dear,

Do you speak in such pious and lofty analogies all the time? It is as if you are teaching a class in every post. At times you can be quite kind and approachable. Then you will suddenly begin to spout legalisms and scriptures at every situation. At times you can be very officious and off-putting.

I must ask you, when you say "Don't trust in what man says.", are you speaking about physicians, and psychologists? Are you saying that individuals trained to specific tasks concerning human health both psychological and physical know nothing of the nature of the human condition if it does not embrace a Biblical interpretational view? I have known some brilliant doctors who have been very successful with both physical and mental health. It is hard for me to accept that they know nothing about their field of expertise because someone with a great knowledge of Biblical referencing disagrees.

I have, over the last 25 years, worked with many gays and lesbians who have been abused by well meaning Christians who insist that they can be delivered from their "curse". I have known individuals who even had exorcisms performed on them, complete with being held down, screamed at and terrified. I have known individuals who were led to such guilt by disapproving families, friends and pastors that they tried to commit suicide and in some cases were successful. I think there is a better way to deal with this issue than throwing guilt laden sentences and horrific consequential warnings. If you are really concerned - speak to humans as humans. Don't spout scriptural references and legalisms at every turn. Be approachable, kind and loving. Don't condemn, don't demean, and above all don't assume that you know what is best for an individual who is essentially a stranger. Do NOT assume that someone dealing with their homosexuality is "giving in to the least little thing". You know what the Bible says, no argument there, but you do not know the individual. There is far more to being a Christian than spouting rules and scripture.


Hey mean, maybe I should follow your lead. I believe I see a change in you lately. Maybe it's your new hat or something but you look better. God keeps working on us as long as we will let Him. Give me a little more time. I might find a new hat too.

What I’m trying to say is that God has the final say. Man might say that something is not a sin, but if God calls it a sin in His word, then it is a sin. Sin is sin, no matter how much man desires to justify it. Also, God never said that homosexuality was a sin that was impossible to overcome by His grace. Man doesn't have the final say. God does.

Jesus is not as powerless as so many in His church seem to believe. He can do what man cannot do. Those who are born again are born into a supernatural family of God. God is able to empower the believer to walk godly in Christ. Whatever God asks of us, He will give us the grace and strength to do.

We serve a supernatural God, and not a God limited to man’s limitations. Jesus gave the blind sight and the paralytic rose from their bed and walked. Jesus raised the dead with His word. God is not frightened with our dilemmas, but is more than able to help us and give us victory over our circumstances. He simply requires our faith and commitment. God doesn’t read the medical books in order to know what He can or cannot do. There is no bondage of sin that man can’t be delivered from, as long as he will repent and trust in God. God’s grace is sufficient. God will make a way for all who trust Him. None should look at their circumstances, but always look to God. God is greater than our circumstances.

Mr 4:39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.
Mr 4:40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?
Last edited by what4
quote:
Gee Jetboy...reading this, it sounds like you are the more violent one. Are you trying to justify your anger? Or has someone hurt you and you are looking for validation to retaliate? Or are just wanting to kick some ass? Whats the prob kiddo?



Violent? You should see what I would do to that bad boy Wink
quote:
Originally posted by jetboy:
quote:
Gee Jetboy...reading this, it sounds like you are the more violent one. Are you trying to justify your anger? Or has someone hurt you and you are looking for validation to retaliate? Or are just wanting to kick some ass? Whats the prob kiddo?



Violent? You should see what I would do to that bad boy Wink


Poor Baby....God loves you anyway, doncha know...but He has been known to kick some ass every now and then too so I'd be careful if I were you. Just a little friendly thought sharing.
Hi Mean,

You say to What4, "I have, over the last 25 years, worked with many gays and lesbians who have been abused by well meaning Christians who insist that they can be delivered from their "curse." I have known individuals who even had exorcisms performed on them, complete with being held down, screamed at, and terrified. I have known individuals who were led to such guilt by disapproving families, friends, and pastors that they tried to commit suicide and in some cases were successful."

Those people doing this to the gays and lesbians may or may not have been Christian, for not all who wear the hat are Christians. And, they may have been well meaning -- but, they were completely wrong. God does not call us to exorcise, nor to condemn anyone -- but, to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with everyone.

Then, you say, "I think there is a better way to deal with this issue than throwing guilt laden sentences and horrific consequential warnings. If you are really concerned - speak to humans as humans. Don't spout scriptural references and legalisms at every turn. Be approachable, kind and loving. Don't condemn, don't demean, and above all don't assume that you know what is best for an individual who is essentially a stranger. Do NOT assume that someone dealing with their homosexuality is 'giving in to the least little thing.' You know what the Bible says, no argument there, but you do not know the individual. There is far more to being a Christian than spouting rules and scripture."

When speaking one on one with a homosexual; I agree with you that we should be tactful in the use of Scripture. However, when discussing the issue of homosexuality and the Biblical view of it on the Forum, we are not talking to an individual, but to a large number of readers. Most understand the Biblical view of homosexuality -- while others try to cut/paste the Bible to make it fit and justify not leaving their unBiblical lifestyle. And, there are still many Forum readers who may be new believers, or new seekers, who do not yet have a mature knowledge of the Bible -- and do need to know God's view of this issue.

On the other hand, if I have a homosexual friend or acquaintance, unless he/she asks me -- I will not bring up the issue. Last year a good friend and her son came to join us in a small celebration of our daughter's birthday. We had dinner and a birthday cake and just enjoyed the evening. Our friend's son is homosexual. He is really a very nice person and a successful hairdresser. And, he goes to church and feels he is a Christian.

The subject of homosexuality did not come up and I did not raise it. However, if he or his mom had broached the subject; I would have had to share with them the Biblical view of homosexuality -- not in a demeaning way, not in an abusive way -- but in a truthful, Biblical way. I would have been happy to discuss the issue with him; to hear their side, and to give them God's side. This never happened, so all I could do is pray for him.

Now, do I believe that he is a Christian as he professes? No, for being a Christian means to be a "follower of Christ" -- and when his lifestyle is 180 degrees out of sync with the Bible; how can he truly be a "follower of Christ"? The Bible tells us to turn from our secular, sinful lifestyle and turn to follow Jesus. If we do not do this -- how can we call ourselves Christian. He is wearing the hat -- but, he is not walking the walk.

He and his mom are adjusted to the situation. But, then, she seldom attends church herself. Is this a condemnation of her? No. I am just being factual; that she also does not understand the full implication of his chosen lifestyle -- for she does not have a knowledge of the Bible. We have invited her to church and Bible study; but, just possibly, she does not want to come -- for if she gets a better understanding of God's Word, she may have to admit that her son's lifestyle is wrong. So, you can see how his lifestyle is affecting the eternal life of both he and his mother. Is that lifestyle worth this? Is any lifestyle worth both him and his mother losing their eternal salvation? No.

So, Mean, while I agree with you that we should NEVER, NEVER be abusive nor demeaning to anyone, including homosexuals -- we also have to fit our approach to the audience. One on one -- wait for him/her to ask. Large reader audience -- we must, in love, declare God's Biblical truths.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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