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If you were zapped back in time to, let's say, 100 years before Christ, would you be a Jew or a Christian? Technically, Christianity wouldn't have been invented yet.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie 9tails: If you were zapped back in time to, let's say, 100 years before Christ, would you be a Jew or a Christian? Technically, Christianity wouldn't have been invented yet.

Hi Zombie,

No, most of us would have been Gentiles, unless we were of the Jewish race and culture. Christianity did not exist until Jesus Christ came to earth, was crucified, resurrected, and ascended into heaven.

Forty days after His crucifixion, He ascended into heaven. Ten days later, the Holy Spirit came upon His apostles and disciples (120 of them) who were waiting, as instructed by Jesus, in the Upper Room. This was the beginning of the Christian church -- and the Church Era. After the Holy Spirit came upon those in the Upper Room -- Peter and the apostles went outside and addressed the crowd which had gathered when they heard the commotion.

Peter and the apostles preached to the crowd, and the people, who were from different countries and spoke different languages -- each heard the message in their own native language. Quite a miracle; attributable to the Holy Spirit. That day, 3000 became believers. A few days later, 4000 men (which meant that the the total was much larger because they did not count the women and children) were added to the church, the body of believers.

Later, in Antioch, those trying to defame the new believers gave a name, which they meant to be derogatory, to the new believers. They called them "Christians!" -- meaning "little Christs" or "Christ followers." While the name was meant to defame the believers -- the believers took great pride in being called Christians -- for they were truly Christ Followers. And, today, we take great pride in being called Christians -- for it means we belong to the family of God.

And, from that day, the Day of Pentecost, the Christian church, the body of Christ -- has covered the entire world. Praise God!

The Church Era, begun on the Day of Pentecost, has lasted for over 2000 years -- and will end with the Rapture of the believers to meet Jesus Christ in the clouds -- when we will receive our immortal, glorified bodies and be taken into heaven with Jesus.

Then -- the seven year Tribulation will begin -- the time of Jacob's Trouble, the time for the remnant of Jews to believe in and follow their long awaited Messiah, Jesus Christ.

After seven years of Tribulation; Jesus Christ will return to earth bringing with Him His raptured church, the Old Testament saints, and the martyred Tribulation saints. He will establish His Millennial Kingdom for 1000 years -- then, He will take us into eternity with Him.

Sounds like a great ride, doesn't it? Why don't you get your ticket on the Glory Train and join us? It is not difficult. Just admit you are a sinner, sincerely ask forgiveness, invite Jesus Christ to come into your life and be your personal Lord and Savior -- and, your ticket on the Glory Train has been punched! Why not give Jesus a try? If you don't like Him; Satan will always take you back.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Hi all,

This brought to mind one of my favorite entertainers of past years -- Sammy Davis, Jr.

Sammy lost an eye in a car accident while driving from Las Vegas to Los Angeles; later, through a friendship with Eddie Cantor, he converted to Judaism.

When he decided to play golf; he was asked, "What is your handicap?"

To which Sammy responded, "Are you kidding? I'm one-eyed, black, and a Jew? Any more questions?

Just thought I would share that. Nothing like a wee bit of humor late at night.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Originally posted by Zombie 9tails:
Judaism is a religion. Non-Jews can convert to Judaism.

Hi Zombie,

That is true; Judaism is a religion. However, just as Christians follow Jesus Christ and Christianity -- Jews follow Judaism. Being Jewish can signify your religion, your birth, or both.

So, in the respect, Sammy Davis, Jr. was a "one-eyed, black, Jew" -- just as he stated. And, an entertainer whose talents I greatly admired.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Hi David,

I am truly happy for you; for I, too, admired Einstein -- because of his work; but, feel sad for his being spiritually lost.

David, while you are always welcome on the TimesDaily Religion Forum -- you might be well advised to stay in your local papers. You are out-classed by the folks in the Shoals who do not buy into your atheist religion.

Okay, there are a small handful who buy some of what your write; while the much larger group recognize your religion for what it is -- a desire to be your own god and to be accountable to no one but yourself.

And, you can go on doing this for the remainder of this brief life. But, my Friend, this short breath of life is like spitting into a river which is overflowing from flood waters -- very insignificant. What is important is where, and with whom, you will spend eternity. My Friend, so far, you have definitely made the wrong choice.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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It's actually a very good question. Deep is half right, we would mostly likely be limited to whatever our culture taught. If I were to be zapped to 100 years before Christ, I would most likely have no religion, since that's where I've already been by trying to do things on my own.

However, the majority of the world's population throughout history have lived after Christ. It's impossible to determine the exact number of the entire human population throughout history. What historians do know is that far more people have lived between now and 1 AD than lived prior to that date. Longer life spans, better living conditions, improved health care and declining infant mortality contributes to that. The world population is still growing very quickly.

So Christ came at the perfect time to benefit the most people. This is where I disagree with Deep. Christianity is global, it's practiced in every culture, almost every country, among every race of human. The reason for this is that it's different from other religions. People aren't born into Christianity, even in this country, it's something that is discovered. For a lot of people, including me, they may grow up with Christianity, but leave it because they didn't discover it on their own. Many say they are Christians and go through the motions, but they aren't living as taught by Christ.

Christianity is about discovery and change. No matter what beliefs or disbeliefs one holds, when the decision is made to find Christ, He'll be found. When one finds Him and commits to Him instead of living for oneself, that's when a deep change occurs. It crosses all cultural, racial, and religious lines. That's why I'm glad I was born after Christ instead of before.

Sorry for the long answer, but it was a good question and deserving of an appropriate response.
Nash,

Half-right? You wound me.

Now, consider this. I borrow this from my friend Hitchens, who put into a few words what has been on my mind for years.

Humans have existed for at least 100,000 years, maybe as long as 250,000 years. I'll take 100,000.

For 98,000 years, god watches us suffer through confusion and physical torment with folded arms. Then about 2000 years ago, he sends his son, who is also himself and someone else, to be torn to pieces in an illiterate corner of Palestine, beset with religious freaks of all kinds, to correct his mistakes.

Only those people who understand the "logic" of this action and pay appropriate obeisance are free of god's mistake. Even those people in South America, Africa, Europe, and Asia, not to mention the paleoindians of the good ol' USA, who did not hear of this profound act for hundreds or thousands of years were doomed to everlasting punishment for their ignorance.

Is this fair? Is it reasonable? Is there any shred of righteousness about it?

No.

It's absurd, and no thinking person can accept such a ridiculous story and retain any scrap of self-respect.

The premise of Original Sin, a function of the story of Adam and Eve, is obviously false, since we now know there were no Adam and Eve in the biblical sense.

No Original Sin, no need for salvation. No Salvation, no Jesus. The man might have lived, but the son-of-god business is profoundly and astronomically unlikely, far beyond the possibility that Thor is responsible for thunder.

DF
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For 98,000 years, god watches us suffer through confusion and physical torment with folded arms. Then about 2000 years ago, he sends his son, who is also himself and someone else, to be torn to pieces in an illiterate corner of Palestine, beset with religious freaks of all kinds, to correct his mistakes.


Not true, God did not watch with folded arms. The OT is all about how the Jews were disobedient to God, tried to do things their way, suffered, then came back to God and were forgiven, only to forsake Him again. All of this was long before Christ.

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Only those people who understand the "logic" of this action and pay appropriate obeisance are free of god's mistake. Even those people in South America, Africa, Europe, and Asia, not to mention the paleoindians of the good ol' USA, who did not hear of this profound act for hundreds or thousands of years were doomed to everlasting punishment for their ignorance.

Is this fair? Is it reasonable? Is there any shred of righteousness about it?


That's a good question and not easy to answer. Moses didn't accept Jesus, Moses died long before Jesus was born. So how could Moses be saved? What we know about God is that He is just and we're saved through His grace.

It's a tough question, here is a good explanation that addresses it.

Link
"What we know about God is that He is just and we're saved through His grace."

I do not know that God is just because there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary, e.g., nazi slaughter of Jews, disease, natural disasters, lions ripping apart wildebeasts, and sharks slaughtering sea lions. There is not a single incidence of anyone being saved by God's grace. This mythological being was nothing but cruel, irrational, vindictive an capricious. He has never done one deed that has imporved the human condition.
From your cited article.

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God didn’t leave the world without a proper testimony about himself (Acts 14,17) and doesn’t condemn anybody without first revealing his grace. Although this article may not offer an acceptable answer to the question in the title, nobody’s salvation depends on how convincing such an answer could be. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross is and remains the only ground for human salvation. Rejecting it (by those who have heard about him) cannot be justified by the lack of intellectual satisfaction one gets from polemical debates.


I reject it. I need no such salvation.

You're the bible scholar here. You know the verses wherein Jesus says only those who accept him are saved.

You're dancing. If all righteous people are saved retroactively or by proxy, then the concept of being saved is meaningless.

Nash, it's all BS. There is nothing from which to be saved. We're all human beings, most good, some bad. We are not born sinners. Sin is a victimless crime.

It's time to move on, buddy.


DF
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I reject it. I need no such salvation.

You're the bible scholar here. You know the verses wherein Jesus says only those who accept him are saved.

You're dancing. If all righteous people are saved retroactively or by proxy, then the concept of being saved is meaningless.

Nash, it's all BS. There is nothing from which to be saved. We're all human beings, most good, some bad. We are not born sinners. Sin is a victimless crime.

It's time to move on, buddy.


We all need salvation. Sometimes those who feel they don't need anyone's help are the ones who need it most. When we do things our way, we fail every time.

You're right when you said that Christ's sacrifice is meaningless if we are saved retroactively. That's why I posted the link, it explains things better than I can. I doesn't say that we are saved by proxy or retroactively.

Sin is not a victimless crime if the person committing the sin is the victim.
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I do not know that God is just because there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary, e.g., nazi slaughter of Jews, disease, natural disasters, lions ripping apart wildebeasts, and sharks slaughtering sea lions. There is not a single incidence of anyone being saved by God's grace. This mythological being was nothing but cruel, irrational, vindictive an capricious. He has never done one deed that has imporved the human condition.


Jews were not murdered by God, they were murdered by men. Sharks and lions hunting their prey are doing what they were designed to do. It's part of the natural order, if they did not exist then the population of those animals would explode. The food chain doesn't prove God is unjust.

As for God not doing anything to improve the human condition, that's not true at all. Didn't Jesus teach Christians to help those less fortunate? Didn't he teach us to forgive, to love, and not to hate? Isn't love and forgiveness beneficial to the human condition?

As for your claim that not one person was saved by His grace, I would disagree. I'm one example. Here is another.

Link
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Salvation from what, Nash?

Salvation presupposes some sort of intrinsic flaw. God knows we have those, but are they salvageable?

Salvation from what? Our unworthiness in the eyes of the god who made us?

You're not in the running for this month's Stop Making Sense award, bud.


Salvation from ourselves, from our own flaws. Yes, God knows we're flawed, that's why He's offered us salvation if we're willing to accept it. He's offering us a chance to not only be forgiven of our mistakes, but also learn to forgive ourselves as well as others. He's also offering us a way to live a better life here on Earth.

You're right, we are not worthy of salvation. We don't deserve it. We've all done things that we regret and we are all struggling with our own issues. That's what makes the gift so special. We don't deserve it, but because God loves us it's offered to us. Like any gift, we have to simply choose to accept it.
"Jews were not murdered by God, they were murdered by men."
They were murdered by God's creations, men, as God stood by and did nothing as his "chosen people" were being butchered.

"Sharks and lions hunting their prey are doing what they were designed to do. It's part of the natural order, if they did not exist then the population of those animals would explode. The food chain doesn't prove God is unjust."

The "intelligent designer" designed a preditory system of survival that results in the pain and suffering of both humans and animals. Obviously the wildebeast suffers as it is being torn apart. What kind of a barbaric moron would design a system of survival that involves such horrible suffering. The food chain not only proves that God is unjust, but he is a horrible, horrible fiend who revels in animal suffering. He must have been the principle advisor to the Roman emperors for their butchery of animals with their fun games.

"As for God not doing anything to improve the human condition, that's not true at all. Didn't Jesus teach Christians to help those less fortunate?"

Do you mean like his Republican flunkie who oppose all forms of help for the less fortunate?

"Didn't he teach us to forgive, to love, and not to hate? Isn't love and forgiveness beneficial to the human condition?"

Thanks a lot God for sending us such an inept and worthless teacher. Nobody paid a bit of attention to him from from the fourth century right up until the age of enlightenment. Before secular laws came to their rescue, non-Christians were systemcatically tortured and murdered by Christ's followers. Christians are still acting with intolerance and hate. How about the murder of the abortion doctor? Love and forgiveness would be beneficial to the human condition. Unfortunately, Christians spew forth hate, e.g, non-Christians and homosexuals, and are vindictive against those who don't share their beliefs or follow their practices.

"As for your claim that not one person was saved by His grace, I would disagree. I'm one example. Here is another."

People will tell the most egregious lies in attempts to convince us that their beliefs are rational. Merely claiming that you were saved by his grace does not prove that you or anyone else was saved by his grace. Pure bunko!
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Glad you admit that the 98% (minimum) of humans who have existed are incapable of "salvation".

Your declaration serves to demonstrate the cruel and capricious nature of your loving, just god.


Okay now you've lost me. Where did I say anything close to 98% of humans were incapable of salvation?

How does my statement that God's grace and gift of salvation prove He is cruel? God wants us to be saved, He doesn't want us to be condemned to Hell. That's why we're offered a free pass, forgiveness when we deserve punishment. How is that cruel?
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"Jews were not murdered by God, they were murdered by men."
They were murdered by God's creations, men, as God stood by and did nothing as his "chosen people" were being butchered.


So are you saying that man was created by God?
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The "intelligent designer" designed a preditory system of survival that results in the pain and suffering of both humans and animals. Obviously the wildebeast suffers as it is being torn apart. What kind of a barbaric moron would design a system of survival that involves such horrible suffering. The food chain not only proves that God is unjust, but he is a horrible, horrible fiend who revels in animal suffering. He must have been the principle advisor to the Roman emperors for their butchery of animals with their fun games.


So you're saying God created an imperfect world, am I right?

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Thanks a lot God for sending us such an inept and worthless teacher. Nobody paid a bit of attention to him from from the fourth century right up until the age of enlightenment.


That's not true at all. Constantine converted the Roman Empire in the middle of the 4th century. Christianity existed before that. Christians were persecuted, tortured, and killed for their beliefs under Nero. Obviously, Christ's teachings had to have been pretty important to them to die for their beliefs.

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Before secular laws came to their rescue, non-Christians were systemcatically tortured and murdered by Christ's followers. Christians are still acting with intolerance and hate. How about the murder of the abortion doctor? Love and forgiveness would be beneficial to the human condition. Unfortunately, Christians spew forth hate, e.g, non-Christians and homosexuals, and are vindictive against those who don't share their beliefs or follow their practices.


Are you not also expressing hatred for Christians by saying God is a fiend and Christians are ignorant?

Do you hate Christians?

Did Christ teach to hate others or to torture and kill them?

I have no reason to lie when I say I am saved by His grace. Do you think I'm a liar?

Sorry for so many questions in one post, there are 6 total. I look forward to reading your responses.
"So are you saying that man was created by God?"

No I am not. I am only quoting Judeo-Christian mythology which says man was created by God. Science of course rejects such a notion.

"So you're saying God created an imperfect world, am I right?"

No, you are wrong and you know it. The mythological biblical God created an imperfect word. There is no God to create anything.

"Obviously, Christ's teachings had to have been pretty important to them to die for their beliefs."

People dying for a silly superstition hardly makes the superstition worthwhile. The fact is there was as much hate, violence, intolerance in the world after Christ as during or before Christ's teachings. His "teaching" was of no value. He failed to teach anybody anything other than to spreaed intolerance in his name. Did Christ leave the world a better place than he found it as great people like Thomas Jefferson have?

"Are you not also expressing hatred for Christians by saying God is a fiend and Christians are ignorant?"

The fictious God worshipped by Christians has all the characteristics of a fiend. He is cruel, vindictive, capricious and irrational. The intelligence of people woshipping such a fiend is subject to questioning.

"Do you hate Christians?"
No, I just do not respect their superstitions. However, they are entitled to these beliefs as long as they do not pollute our society with them.

"I have no reason to lie when I say I am saved by His grace. Do you think I'm a liar?"

That was a poor choice or words. Sorry. I do think you are very naive. Why would God save you while he allows 15 million children to die from starvation each year; allows terrible human and animal suffering; doesn't bring our nation's misguided war to a close; fails to prevent or cure disease and many more failures. You must be extremely special for
God to single you out for special favors. Maybe you should ask your invisible pal to make a believer out of me so that I will stop soiling his name.
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No I am not. I am only quoting Judeo-Christian mythology which says man was created by God. Science of course rejects such a notion.


If God does not exist, then how can you blame Him for the Holocaust?

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No, you are wrong and you know it. The mythological biblical God created an imperfect word. There is no God to create anything.


This statement is contradictory. If there is no God, how could God create an imperfect world? If nature is solely responsible for the world's existence, would that make nature imperfect?

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People dying for a silly superstition hardly makes the superstition worthwhile. The fact is there was as much hate, violence, intolerance in the world after Christ as during or before Christ's teachings. His "teaching" was of no value. He failed to teach anybody anything other than to spreaed intolerance in his name. Did Christ leave the world a better place than he found it as great people like Thomas Jefferson have?


Jesus taught that we should love our enemies and forgive those who do us wrong. Is that an example of intolerance? When you say that Christians are ignorant and pathetic, wouldn't that also be an example of intolerance?

I have several friends who have changed their life for the better by following Christ's teachings. They've kicked drug habits, alcoholism, and they're living happy, productive lives. They credit Christ with their change. There are millions of similar stories throughout the world. I would say that is an example of how Christ had a positive impact on the world.

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The fictious God worshipped by Christians has all the characteristics of a fiend. He is cruel, vindictive, capricious and irrational. The intelligence of people woshipping such a fiend is subject to questioning.


Many of the past examples you've used to support this claim comes from the Jewish tradition, the OT. Would you say that Jews worship an evil and vindictive fiend as well?

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No, I just do not respect their superstitions. However, they are entitled to these beliefs as long as they do not pollute our society with them.


So you have every right to spread your message by writing letters to multiple newspapers, but a Christian does not have the right to share his belief? Isn't that a double standard?

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That was a poor choice or words. Sorry. I do think you are very naive. Why would God save you while he allows 15 million children to die from starvation each year; allows terrible human and animal suffering; doesn't bring our nation's misguided war to a close; fails to prevent or cure disease and many more failures. You must be extremely special for
God to single you out for special favors. Maybe you should ask your invisible pal to make a believer out of me so that I will stop soiling his name.


You're confusing spiritual salvation with physical needs. Christians are taught to help those less fortunate, there are quite a few Christian organizations that are doing everything they can to help those children.

You are also using the argument that because evil exists, there can be no God. Do you believe that evil exists?
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
As for your claim that not one person was saved by His grace, I would disagree. I'm one example. Here is another.

Link


Nash, how do you know that it was a God? The Christian God? And what criteria did you use to verify or know this?

BW's story is like all the other's: nothing measurable or quantifiable. Just a supernatural spirit filling him at a moment of weakness.

Isn't anyone curious that out of the thousands of Gods, not one "modern day" miracle or sighting?

The entire world would settle for a visit from any God and one verifiable world wide miracle. Faith would take a back seat to the revealed science of that God and I believe that it would promote a harmonious environment( war, murder rape, pillage, etc. would certainly be curbed)

*sigh*

What we do know is that all ancient cultures couldn't understand the science behind the world around them so they turned to the "unknowable" or "unquestionable" supernatural spirits as an explanation.

I'll grant anyone the power of positive thinking and certain beliefs. However, when it comes to the ancient ignorant manm made stories of our world and how it all got here, many of us prefer to go with what we know.

I'm encouraged by the obvious transformation of people everyday who choose to acknowledge reason over superstition.

Regards
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Nash, how do you know that it was a God? The Christian God? And what criteria did you use to verify or know this?


I never asked any other god to change my life. Those people I know and have seen their lives changed never asked any other god. Not only have I observed my own life change significantly, but I've seen others that I worried about change as well.

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BW's story is like all the other's: nothing measurable or quantifiable. Just a supernatural spirit filling him at a moment of weakness.


It's impossible to measure or quantify your statement in itself, so how can you know it's true?
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Nash, how do you know that it was a God? The Christian God? And what criteria did you use to verify or know this?


I never asked any other god to change my life. Those people I know and have seen their lives changed never asked any other god. Not only have I observed my own life change significantly, but I've seen others that I worried about change as well.

quote:
BW's story is like all the other's: nothing measurable or quantifiable. Just a supernatural spirit filling him at a moment of weakness.


It's impossible to measure or quantify your statement in itself, so how can you know it's true?


Sure it is.

He's making a claim.

Where is his evidence?

He, like any reasonable person would provide it if he had it.

Any person would, regardless of belief.

And what have we got?

Nada, zip, zilch....

Christianity is almost like every other religion in that they've got a story and some sort of perfect document.

The truth is that using your supernatural criteria you can't prove or disprove anything, let alone gods, holy spirits, devils, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by 8I:
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Nash, how do you know that it was a God? The Christian God? And what criteria did you use to verify or know this?


I never asked any other god to change my life. Those people I know and have seen their lives changed never asked any other god. Not only have I observed my own life change significantly, but I've seen others that I worried about change as well.

quote:
BW's story is like all the other's: nothing measurable or quantifiable. Just a supernatural spirit filling him at a moment of weakness.


It's impossible to measure or quantify your statement in itself, so how can you know it's true?


Sure it is.

He's making a claim.

Where is his evidence?

He, like any reasonable person would provide it if he had it.

Any person would, regardless of belief.

And what have we got?

Nada, zip, zilch....

Christianity is almost like every other religion in that they've got a story and some sort of perfect document.

The truth is that using your supernatural criteria you can't prove or disprove anything, let alone gods, holy spirits, devils, etc.


You've also made a claim, where is your evidence?
There was a MLB pitcher some years ago who wore the same socks throughout the season. He had convinced himself that he would pitch well when he had those socks on. If he didn't, his pitching game would go off the rails. As I recall the story, when he wore his "lucky socks" he actually did pitch quite brilliantly.

The question is, then, was the improvement in his pitching directly attributable to the socks?

It could have been that he believed in his abilities just a little bit more and was a little more confident when he wore his lucky socks. In pitching, confidence is everything. So was it the socks, or was it him?

And even if you knew it came from within himself, would you have taken his socks away from him to prove a point?

And, who knows, the socks may have been magical.

The same with faith in God. If you believe that God is with you, perhaps your confidence is increased. Perhaps your mind can effect all sorts of unexplained things, like healing or a change in attitude, or a new perspective. Perhaps you can go forth to a job interview with renewed confidence and impress the hiring manager.

If you likewise believe God is displeased with you, the opposite occurs. Your confidence wanes. One of the reasons I stay very close to my wife (besides the love and the whole "victim of a homicide" thing that goes along with straying) is that I truly believe God would withdraw from me, and my life would collapse into despair, poverty, and living under a bridge.

These things are not scientific or rational; however, to me they are real. I cannot nor will I ever try to scientifically prove them as they are not provable, but they are woven into my very essence. Perhaps God is capricious and arbitrary. Heck, I'll accept the possibility that He doesn't even exist, and that when I close my eyes for the last time, it's "Game Over." But I've accepted and internalized God as a part of my life for so long I couldn't excise Him if I tried. Whether or not He's real, He (or at least the idea of Him) provides me comfort. Just like the ratty old batting glove I carried with me for years when I played. Too worn out to wear, but when it was in my pocket, I could make good contact with the ball. If not, strikeouts and bloop flyouts were the order of the day.
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Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Originally posted by 8I:
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Nash, how do you know that it was a God? The Christian God? And what criteria did you use to verify or know this?


I never asked any other god to change my life. Those people I know and have seen their lives changed never asked any other god. Not only have I observed my own life change significantly, but I've seen others that I worried about change as well.

quote:
BW's story is like all the other's: nothing measurable or quantifiable. Just a supernatural spirit filling him at a moment of weakness.


It's impossible to measure or quantify your statement in itself, so how can you know it's true?


Sure it is.

He's making a claim.

Where is his evidence?

He, like any reasonable person would provide it if he had it.

Any person would, regardless of belief.

And what have we got?

Nada, zip, zilch....

Christianity is almost like every other religion in that they've got a story and some sort of perfect document.

The truth is that using your supernatural criteria you can't prove or disprove anything, let alone gods, holy spirits, devils, etc.


You've also made a claim, where is your evidence?


Are you referring to the bold above? BW, in the story you link says this. God and God's love coming down into him, and then through him.
Changed my life.

OMB, what does not change our lives?

There was a young lady in B'ham named Kathy who changed my life. She's not god. But she was good to me.

My first job out of college. Changed my life. Through suffering and privilege, and all for the better. Made me a man.

For chrissakes, what doesn't change our lives? Having to live through this abominable presidential administration will change all our lives, and hardly for the better.

In my life I've see gasoline at 28 cents/gallon and almost $5/gallon. Did that change my life? You betcha (not to sound Minnesotan).

In a complex environment which we humans have created for ourselves, with the demands of economics and philosophy and such, change is the only constant upon which we can depend. Those external pressures, plus the internal structures we carry forth from thousands of generations before us, demand change, demand stress, demand adaptation.

It's tough. Deal with it. And, after dealing with it, enjoy a glass of Zin over a sunset.

It's your due. Who deserves it more than you?


DF
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
I never asked any other god to change my life. Those people I know and have seen their lives changed never asked any other god.


Nash,

Since I embraced rationalism and shed my belief in invisible men, I believe I am a more moral, more gentle, more humanistic person. I care for others much more that I used to. I am considerably more selfless. The change is subtle on the outside (I never was much of an evil person) but on the inside I think much differently.

How do you explain this transformation?

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