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Wow. Did Jesus say to inculcate infants so young, they can barely put two words together? I guess the goal is to get to them before they ever set foot in a school and learn about anything else. Smells of desperation.

Toddlers Knowing God
"This is a series of Bible lesson designed to help younger children understand the character and nature of God. Each simple lesson in the unit is targeted for children age 18-24 months."
http://ministry-to-children.com/toddlers-knowing-god/

Lesson 1: God is My Shepherd
"With toddlers, you want to keep your lesson simple. If your class is able, get them to sit together on floor in front of you. Show them the picture of a shepherd. Hold up your Bible. SAY: The Bible tells us God is our good Shepherd. The Bible is His Word. SAY: God is our good Shepherd. We are His sheep. He takes care of us. (Repeat three times.)"

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It's impossible to speak with force in a muffled voice from the closet

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From the website:


Leading a Child to Christ
http://ministry-to-children.co...g-a-child-to-christ/

Jesus said, “Let the little children come unto me,” — and he meant it! God is not impressed by our ages and doesn’t require His followers to reach a certain height before they enter His kingdom. As children’s ministry leaders, we need to be comfortable and skillful at leading a child to Jesus. We aren’t to manipulate or put words in our kids’ mouths. Instead, we need to be sensitive to the Spirit and recognize a child that is reaching upwards. Many people love to teach a class but miss the opportunity to bring a child to Jesus. If it’s been a while, buff up on your skills by reviewing these steps. Make leading a child to Jesus a priority and enjoy the harvest God brings you.

This is how you brainwash someone.... and you think its "sweet"?

 

Those poor babies. I wonder when they start teaching them that they were born with sin and that they owe their lives to this God that sent himself to be sacrificed to himself for the forgivness of the sins he created himself....That will really blow their little minds.

 

Then they will repeat (three times or more if needed) "God loves you, but he will burn you alive for eternity if you disobey him".....Awwwww how sweet.

Bible Story Skit & Lesson on Sodom and Gommorah
http://ministry-to-children.co...ommorah-lesson-skit/

Teacher #1:      So, like he had with Adam and Eve, like he had with the people in the time of Noah, like he had with the people building the Tower of Babel, God judged the sins of the people he had created.  God is a just God who cannot allow sin to go unpunishedThe people of Sodom & Gomorrah had sinned, and God was right to judge themThe judgment he pronounced on those cities was that he would destroy them.

Teacher #2:      But, God decided to save some people in that city.  Who did he decide to save?

Allow time for response

Teacher #1:      That’s right; he saved Lot and His family.  He didn’t save them because Lot didn’t sin.  Lot was a sinner just like we all are.  He saved Lot because Lot chose to listen to God and follow Him.  God made a way out for Lot and His family, but He had to listen to God.   That was pretty good news for Lot and his family wasn’t it?

Teacher #2:      That was great news for Lot and his family, and you know what?  We sin too.  We all do.  I do.  Ms. Heather does.  Ms. Darcy does.  Your small group leaders all sin.  Your teachers sin.  Your parents sin.  You sin.  We all sin.  We might not commit the same types of sins that the Sodomites did, but we all sin.  We all do things that are the opposite of God’s will for us, and that is sin.

Teacher #1:      And like the Sodomites, our sin deserves to be punishedGod created everything to be perfect and holy (that means set apart), but God is the only one who is perfect, the only one who does not sin, and because of that he is just and right to punish us for our sins.

Teacher #2:      But, like Lot, God gives us a way out too.  He sent his son, Jesus Christ, to come to earth, lead a sinless life, die on the cross for our sins, and be raised again on third day.  Jesus died for our sins, and when we make Him the Lord of our life and choose to follow Him, we can be reconciled to God and live forever with Him the way He designed us to.  That is really Good News!  We’re going to talk more about why God judges sin in small group.

ISN'T IT MARVELOUS?  Who would not want to start their children on the path to spiritual health at an early age?    Proverbs 22:6, "Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it."

 

That, my Friends, is true love for one's children.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Children Praying

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

ISN'T IT MARVELOUS?  Who would not want to start their children on the path to spiritual health at an early age?    Proverbs 22:6, "Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it."

 

That, my Friends, is true love for one's children.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Children Praying

________________________________

 

That picture makes my heart hurt. Those poor little children. I bet they go to bed at night scared of the boogey man their parents have told them will punish them with torture if they have bad thoughts or do bad things. To me I see them as victims of horrible mental abuse.

 

Their faces look like they are pleading and begging to be spared.

 

 

 

I suppose you think it's brainwashing to teach kids to love their parents/siblings/grandparents. How DARE anyone explain to children that their parents love them and want what's best for them! How DARE anyone slap the hand that is reaching for the hot burner on the stove and then have the NERVE to explain that they were slapped away from that hot burner for their own good because we love them!

 

And why is it OK for you to teach these kids their numbers and colors and indeed, the very language itself? Isn't that brainwashing? We should let the children come up with their own names for colors. We should let them discover numbers on their own. Why do we brainwash children into speaking English when we should let them develop their OWN languages?

 

Why do we brainwash kids by teaching them to be kind to animals? Why do we brainwash them into sharing their toys? Oh, there are SO many ways we brainwash children - we should all be ASHAMED!

 

Now, on a serious, realistic note, I don't even REMEMBER being taught about God. Sure, I went to Sunday school, but long before then, God was part of my life.

 

Yet when I got older, like many people, I questioned His existance and came to the conclusion that He DIDN'T exist. For years I was an atheist. So that "brainwashing" didn't prevent me from thinking for myself at all. And eventually, I came to know that God DOES exist, and that He loves me.

 

And oh, how I love HIM!!

Originally Posted by O No!:
 
This bears repeating:

I suppose you think it's brainwashing to teach kids to love their parents/siblings/grandparents. How DARE anyone explain to children that their parents love them and want what's best for them! How DARE anyone slap the hand that is reaching for the hot burner on the stove and then have the NERVE to explain that they were slapped away from that hot burner for their own good because we love them!

 

And why is it OK for you to teach these kids their numbers and colors and indeed, the very language itself? Isn't that brainwashing? We should let the children come up with their own names for colors. We should let them discover numbers on their own. Why do we brainwash children into speaking English when we should let them develop their OWN languages?

 

Why do we brainwash kids by teaching them to be kind to animals? Why do we brainwash them into sharing their toys? Oh, there are SO many ways we brainwash children - we should all be ASHAMED!

 

Now, on a serious, realistic note, I don't even REMEMBER being taught about God. Sure, I went to Sunday school, but long before then, God was part of my life.

 

Yet when I got older, like many people, I questioned His existance and came to the conclusion that He DIDN'T exist. For years I was an atheist. So that "brainwashing" didn't prevent me from thinking for myself at all. And eventually, I came to know that God DOES exist, and that He loves me.

 

And oh, how I love HIM!!

 

quote:   Originally Posted by yoda:

when the muslims start the same program , in our schools, i wonder if bill will support that, too!?!?!


Hi Yoda,

 

IF America had begun, and continued, as a Muslim nation -- I suppose I would support such teachings in our schools.   However, America's Christian flavor began in the Mayflower Compact with:

 

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, . . . defender of the Faith, . . . Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith,. . ."

 

I believe I will stay with the flavor they gave us -- CHRISTIAN all the way!  After all, the Mayflower Compact does sound very CHRISTIAN to me.  

 

But, do not worry, my Friend -- for, although we Christian believers will never accept or adopt your pagan beliefs -- we will not stop you from wallowing in paganism.   That is the beauty of Christianity.  While we worship our Triune God:  Father, Son, Holy Spirit -- we acknowledge YOUR right to worship in Satan's church, the world.

 

Do I feel joy when I see young children praying and worshiping God?   You bet I do! 

 

For, then, I know they have Christian parents, most likely Christian grandparents, and they are facing heavenward.  How can one not feel joy knowing that those we love and treasure so dearly, our children -- are facing life in the proper direction and with the Best Friend they can ever know, Jesus Christ?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

WHICH IS BETTER?


Baby-Bored

 

OR


Baby-Boy-Praying

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But, do not worry, my Friend -- for, although we Christian believers will never accept or adopt your pagan beliefs -- we will not stop you from wallowing in paganism.   That is the beauty of Christianity.  While we worship our Triune God:  Father, Son, Holy Spirit -- we acknowledge YOUR right to worship in Satan's church, the world.


-----------------------

Link? Re pu table link that puts forth pagans as worshipers of satan? Where has yoda ever said he was a pagan? How did the world become "satan's church"? Do you EVER bother to educate yourself on anything before you start spewing? No wonder you have zero credibility with anyone with good sense. BTW, micheal salman is a fraud.





Pastor Salman revealed as conniving con, not victim

  on Jul. 14, 2012


 

We recently got caught up in the hype over a Phoenix Pastor, Michael Salman, who supposedly was being threatened with jail time and excessive fines for merely hosting Bible studies in his home.

After the initial overreaction, we posted an apology and clarifying update.

Now it turns out there is even more. In this revealing article in the Examiner, Michael Salman is exposed as a convicted felon who was sentenced to six years in the Arizona Department of Corrections in 1993. He was released...

Read the rest of this entry »




What is strikingly obvious is that religious people are insecure in their beliefs to the point that they cannot wait until a child has even the most rudimentary powers of discretion before they indoctrinate them.  A child's mind is malleable and easily indoctrinated.

 

It's cowardly to take advantage of a child that way, and not just about religion. There there are lots of four year old Democrats and Republicans, Alabama football fanatics and Auburn football fanatics, and union or non-union kids out there who should be left alone about all that stuff until they have developed some skepticism.

 

DF

Originally Posted by House of David:
I think it's sweet.

-------------------

Oh and what could be sweeter than one of the little darlings standing up in front of a congregation singing "ain't no homo gonna make it to heaven", while a crowd of (so called) adults cheer and applaud. Yes, so very sweet. And since being a homosexual IS NOT a choice, and there is a chance it could happen, what if that little darling grows up to be one of those "homos" despite his oh so religious father "smacking his limp wrist"? OR the little darling grows into a bully that thinks it's OK to attack those "homos" or others that don't believe, or don't believe like he does, and one day ends up in prison, or worse, maybe even the morgue because he picked on the "wrong" person. Still sweet?

Originally Posted by House of David:

I was referring in general to children praising God.  I wasn't referring to the same sex coitus debate.  

Never saw any of my friend's kids  babbling about " homosexuals in hell". 

-------------------

 I stand by my post. There are dangers to indoctrinating children that are too young, as nsns says, to understand what they're doing. They don't know any better, they can't be sincere, they can't have any idea what "praising god" even means. They're just being "trained" to do "tricks". Do you think that toddler singing "ain't no homo gonna make it to heaven" has the slightest idea what it means? It is ALL for the benefit and amusement of "grown ups". I don't see anything sweet or good about it. 

I think it is harmful to a child to tell them that God loves them and is their creator, but if they step out of line then the punishment is eternal torture or as the lesson above suggest, they will be destroyed. Pretty scary stuff to a 2 year old.

 

Teaching a child about basic knowledge like colors and language is a totally different thing. Also teaching them about REAL dangers such as hot stoves and busy streets is for their safety. It is plain stupid to try and compare that with religious indoctrination.

 

 

It IS no different than teaching them any of the things I mentioned. Is it "indoctrination" to teach a child to share? Is it "indoctrination" to teach them to respect their parents? Is it "indoctrination" to teach them to be an atheist?

 

I'll tell you what - you raise your kids your way, I'll raise mine my way. If you don't like it, well, I don't like your way either, but they're your kids so have at it.

quote:   Originally Posted by Deep Not Shallow Not Slim:

What is strikingly obvious is that religious people are insecure in their beliefs to the point that they cannot wait until a child has even the most rudimentary powers of discretion before they indoctrinate them.  A child's mind is malleable and easily indoctrinated.


Hi Deep,

 

Assuming you have children or grandchildren -- would you teach them to stay out of the street and not talk to strangers -- at a young age?  Or, would you wait until they are teenagers, or older, to teach them such things?

 

If we care that much about the mortal life of our children -- why would we not be even more concerned about their eternal life?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Baby_Cop_Ticket-1_TEXT

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Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

O No, If I could I would delete that last post. I tried and I can't. As a woman I can't imagine not being able to have children. I don't know if you have had children or not, but if you haven't and wanted to then what I said is cruel. I apologize.

I thought you were a danged man dark. Oh well.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by yoda:

when the muslims start the same program , in our schools, i wonder if bill will support that, too!?!?!


Hi Yoda,

 

IF America had begun, and continued, as a Muslim nation -- I suppose I would support such teachings in our schools.   However, America's Christian flavor began in the Mayflower Compact with:

 

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, . . . defender of the Faith, . . . Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith,. . ."

 

I believe I will stay with the flavor they gave us -- CHRISTIAN all the way!  After all, the Mayflower Compact does sound very CHRISTIAN to me.  

 

But, do not worry, my Friend -- for, although we Christian believers will never accept or adopt your pagan beliefs -- we will not stop you from wallowing in paganism.   That is the beauty of Christianity.  While we worship our Triune God:  Father, Son, Holy Spirit -- we acknowledge YOUR right to worship in Satan's church, the world.

 

Do I feel joy when I see young children praying and worshiping God?   You bet I do! 

 

For, then, I know they have Christian parents, most likely Christian grandparents, and they are facing heavenward.  How can one not feel joy knowing that those we love and treasure so dearly, our children -- are facing life in the proper direction and with the Best Friend they can ever know, Jesus Christ?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

i'm so sorry, bill... our country was founded because of "religious persecution". our forefathers were looking for a place to practice their religion any way they wished. now, you're trying to shove one form of religion down the country's throat. i see no resemblance in your agenda and that of our nations firsts settlers. you've mistaken their religious conviction for a "nation founded on christanity". now, christianity may not always be the "dominate" religion in america. the muslim religion is on the rise as well as buddhism. how would you feel if your grandchildren were forced to bow to mecca and pray , three times a day, at school, because we put religion in our school system? would that be acceptable too? after all, they're practicing a religion and worshiping "god". i bet you'd lead the charge to remove the muslim doctrine from our schools. all the while screaming "muslims are going to hell".

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

O No, If I could I would delete that last post. I tried and I can't. As a woman I can't imagine not being able to have children. I don't know if you have had children or not, but if you haven't and wanted to then what I said is cruel. I apologize.

_________________________________

Apology accepted. I never had kids of my own, but my stepchildren are just as beloved to me as I could imagine blood kin would be. Maybe even more so after their Dad passed away. They are the closest thing to HIM that I will ever be able to hold again.

 

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

Wow. Did Jesus say to inculcate infants so young, they can barely put two words together? I guess the goal is to get to them before they ever set foot in a school and learn about anything else. Smells of desperation.

Toddlers Knowing God
"This is a series of Bible lesson designed to help younger children understand the character and nature of God. Each simple lesson in the unit is targeted for children age 18-24 months."
http://ministry-to-children.com/toddlers-knowing-god/

Lesson 1: God is My Shepherd
"With toddlers, you want to keep your lesson simple. If your class is able, get them to sit together on floor in front of you. Show them the picture of a shepherd. Hold up your Bible. SAY: The Bible tells us God is our good Shepherd. The Bible is His Word. SAY: God is our good Shepherd. We are His sheep. He takes care of us. (Repeat three times.)"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are you trying to drag others to oblivion with your ignorant self? 

Originally Posted by Winston Niles Rumfoord:
Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

Wow. Did Jesus say to inculcate infants so young, they can barely put two words together? I guess the goal is to get to them before they ever set foot in a school and learn about anything else. Smells of desperation.

Toddlers Knowing God
"This is a series of Bible lesson designed to help younger children understand the character and nature of God. Each simple lesson in the unit is targeted for children age 18-24 months."
http://ministry-to-children.com/toddlers-knowing-god/

Lesson 1: God is My Shepherd
"With toddlers, you want to keep your lesson simple. If your class is able, get them to sit together on floor in front of you. Show them the picture of a shepherd. Hold up your Bible. SAY: The Bible tells us God is our good Shepherd. The Bible is His Word. SAY: God is our good Shepherd. We are His sheep. He takes care of us. (Repeat three times.)"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are you trying to drag others to oblivion with your ignorant self? 

==
Melodramatic much?

I am going to weigh in on this topic. I hate to come back and start disagreeing with you ONo but, I am going to have to.

 

As I have said many times (in the past) I was raised in a very religious family. We attended church every single time the doors were open and we went to meetings and singings on top of that. I don't remember a time when I was not being told what was a sin or how God would not be happy with me if I did this or that. Anywho, I remember being terrified of dying in my sleep and having maybe sinned that day. I would say my prayers sometime two or three times before I went to sleep just to make sure I was forgiven. I feared God. I was told he loved me but in the same breath I was told these stories of God destroying those that disobeyed him. As a small child I was constantly doing things that were not exactly "right". I would get mad at my sisters and hit them, or not share my candy with my little brother all the normal kid stuff. I would stop sometimes and think "oh no I am going to hell" or "what if God strikes me down right now for being bad" I never felt comfort from the idea of God. I only felt fear.

 

When I had children I began to question my faith. By the time I realized I didn't believe in the bible and God I had 2 very young boys. So, I didn't raise them with any type of religion. They were told that doing wrong hurt others. I had long talks about others feelings and made them think about how they would feel if they were treated wrongly. They have grown into really good people and I didn't use fear of God to make that happen. I remembered all the nights I lay in bed with my eyes squeezed tight praying and praying to be forgiven and hoping I would do better the next day. I didn't want my children having that anxiety. Seeing those pictures above and reading those lessons brought it all back to me. I too feel very sorry for them. I know that my parents loved me and were only doing what they felt was right. They believed so strongly that they were only trying to make sure I was saved. I don't hold it against them at all, but sometimes we can learn from our parents in more ways than one. Soemtimes we learn that they didn't do it the best way, just the best way they knew how.

Jank, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I guess everyone here knows by now that I'm a Yankee, and I can tell you that NOBODY up north did that to their kids. NOBODY. It must be one of those Biblebelt things.

 

Where I was raised, pretty much everybody was raised the way I was, being taught, never threatened. All the kids I went to school with were raised the same way no matter which church they attended. Back then we were allowed to talk about religion at school, and quite often we would be invited to go to church with our friends. I went to quite a few different churches as a child, either after a sleepover, or just by invitation, and there were never, NEVER, any threats of Hell and eternal ****ation. We were ALL taught that sinning hurt God, and we all loved Him so that was enough to keep us from wanting to sin.

 

And as I said, even kids from different churches were told about the book God keeps with our names on them. We all knew that those black marks in our books hurt God, and that was all it took. We behaved out of LOVE for God, not out of fear.

 

Now all of you folks here may dislike me because I'm a Yankee, but I can tell you that for this, if for no other reason, I am SO glad I was raised where it was!

You will find people from all over the country/world that will tell you they were forced to pray, you will find people from all over the country/world that will tell you god was used as a threat to control them, and that made them scared to death of god. If you were allowed to ask kids today, plenty would tell you it scares them. Some parents are concerned and try to comfort kids, others use it and say "yep, god will do that so you better be good". It turns my stomach to see a child do something very mild, just something a child will do, and hear their parent say, "god saw what you did"! Sickening. Reading the bible is one good way for a kid to get scared, so much of it scared me, but my parents would reassure me that, "that is stuff that god didn't do anymore", and I was not bad enough for god to strike down, and I would think I sure hoped they were right, cause that god sure did seem mean, and what if he got all in a snit and started all that smiting stuff again? Sometimes I look back and I think my poor parents would probably have been happier if I hadn't read the bible, cause they sure did have a lot of explaining to do!

Originally Posted by O No!:

Jen, have you actually been to Massachussetts and asked the people there if they were forced to pray and threatened with Hell? Have you been all over the country and the world and asked?

---------------

No, and I didn't make that claim. How about you? Have you been all over the country and the world and talked to everyone and had them say they weren't?  I don't think it would be physically possible to talk to everyone, but if you should say yes you have, I'll have to take your word for it. There are all sorts of articles, books, opinion pieces, blogs, you name it, written, discussed on TV programs, websites all sorts of places, about all sorts of different things. One being religion, and all things pertaining to religion. For that reason it isn't necessary to "go to ma" and all over the rest of the country and the world. If you've spoken to everyone in ma about it that is remarkable. I haven't even spoken to every person in my county, city, immediate area around my neighborhood much less the entire state. There are a lot of people that have done a lot of things that I've never spoken to. Am I supposed to claim they didn't do those things, even if they relate it to others in articles, blogs, newspaper articles, whatever? You say "it must be one of those bible belt things" even though just yesterday I posted that in my church WE were NOT forced to pray. Now how did you come to the conclusion it was a "bible belt" thing? Something you read? Something someone told you? Or have you asked everyone in the so called "bible belt"?

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