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Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion I began titled "Throw It Against The Wall And See If It Sticks!" -- a Roman Catholic Friend keeps repeatedly posting, over and over, what he had already posted, claiming that the Bible teaches the Roman Catholic traditions of purgatory and prayer for the dead.  Since he repeatedly posted the same post over and over, I suggested he is "Throwing it against the wall, hoping something will stick."

And, another Friend comes to his defense, telling me, "The biggest point that he made (again.....) is that the Bible tells us that there is much more than what is written - hold fast to tradition.  Thus refuting sola scriptura.  And anyway, you can't claim things are unbiblical when you fail to use the Bible in its entirety."

Of course, by "the Bible in its entirety" she is referring to the Apocrypha which are extra-biblical history books and not Biblical canon.  Even Jerome, when Pope Leo commissioned him to translate Scripture into Latin for the Roman Catholic church, did not include the Apocrypha.  Later, he was forced, by Pope Leo, to include those books in the Roman Catholic Bible.  Why?  Because most of the Roman Catholic traditions are found ONLY in the Apocrypha.  Pope Leo had to have the Apocrypha in his Bible -- or else, virtually all of their established traditions would be null and void.

She was responding to the comment which my Roman Catholic Friend wrote to me, is his usual civil (?) manner, "You just wish they were unbiblical.  But you know they aren't, and you're too stupid or ignorant to realize sola scriptura isn't biblical.  If you have proof sola scriptura is biblical, show me."

First, let's address her question of "tradition."  What does the Bible say about traditions, especially those created by man, to control or rule man, as was the way of the Pharisees?

In the Old Testament, God tells the Jews through Isaiah:


Isaiah 29:13 (nasb) "Then the Lord said, 'Because this people draw near with their words And honor Me with their lip service, But they remove their hearts far from Me, And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote.' "

 

And, in the New Testament, Jesus had a lot to say about Pharisaical traditions:


Matthew 15:2-3 (nkjv), "'Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?  For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.'   He (Jesus) answered and said to them, 'Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?' "

Matthew 15:6 (nkjv), "'Then he need not honor his father or mother.' Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition."

Mark 7:8 (nkjv), "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men -- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do."

Mark 7:9 (nkjv), "He (Jesus) said to them, 'All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.' "

Mark 7:13 (nkjv), "Making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down.  And many such things you do."

Colossians 2:8 (nkjv), "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ."

1 Peter 1:18 (nkjv), "Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers."


The only Scripture passage which might even possibly come close to her way of thinking regarding "tradition" -- is when Paul is admonishing the church at Thessalonica to avoid those who are not walking by the example of the Christian life which Paul and his co-workers for Christ had taught them.  This had absolutely nothing to do with false doctrines such as purgatory, praying for the dead, Mariology, apostolic succession, etc.:


2 Thessalonians 3:6-7 (nkjv), "But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us.  For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you."

 

Now, regarding the belief in Sola Scriptura, which means "by Scripture alone."


2 Timothy 3:16 (nasb), "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Question:  "What is Sola Scriptura?"    http://www.gotquestions.org/sola-scriptura.html

Answer:  The phrase sola scriptura is from the Latin: sola having the idea of “alone,” “ground,” “base,” and the word scriptura meaning “writings” -- referring to the Scriptures.  Sola Scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian

 

The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true.    “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).

For centuries the Roman Catholic Church had made its traditions superior in authority to the Bible.  This resulted in many practices that were in fact contradictory to the Bible.  Some examples are prayer to saints and/or Mary, the immaculate conception, transubstantiation, infant baptism, indulgences, and papal authority.

The primary (Roman) Catholic argument against sola scriptura is that the Bible does not explicitly teach sola scriptura.  Catholics argue that the Bible nowhere states that it is the only authoritative guide for faith and practice.  While this is true, they fail to recognize a crucially important issue.  We know that the Bible is the Word of God.

The Bible declares itself to be God-breathed, inerrant, and authoritative.  We also know that God does not change His mind or contradict Himself.  So, while the Bible itself may not explicitly argue for sola scriptura, it most definitely does not allow for traditions that contradict its messageSola Scriptura is not as much of an argument against tradition as it is an argument against unbiblical, extra-biblical and/or anti-biblical doctrines.

The only way to know for sure what God expects of us is to stay true to what we know He has revealed -- the Bible.  We can know, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that Scripture is true, authoritative, and reliable.  The same cannot be said of tradition.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

So, my Friends, as I have written a number of times, if you are happy in the Roman Catholic church; God bless you.   But, when you come on the Religion Forum sharing nonBiblical traditions -- and claiming they are from the Bible, I will have to refute those statements.   By the same token, if you feel that what I write is not Biblical, bring it to my attention and let's discuss the issue.

As a matter of fact, that is what we are doing in this discussion.  You claim that Roman Catholic traditions have an equal, or often higher, authority than Scripture.   And, I am showing you, from Scripture, from the words of Jesus Himself -- that is not true.

Use the Apocrypha, and other extra-Biblical books, as good history -- but, do not use them to build a theology to be followed and taught by any church.   You tell me that we should, and must, use the entire Bible.  I agree with you completely.  But, let's assure that we are following the Bible, and not non-canonical history books (the Apocrypha) or commentaries.

Any theology not based upon the entire Bible -- is not a Biblical theology and should be discarded.

A good example of discarding an erroneous theology which is not Biblical could be seen when Herbert W. Armstrong, found and leader of the Worldwide Church of God, died in 1986.  He was replaced as head of that church by Joseph W. Tkach.  Shortly after that, Tkach changed that church's Statement of Beliefs, i.e., what it believes and teaches -- bringing the church into alignment with mainstream, Biblical teaching. 

 

In other words, Tkach took the Worldwide Church of God out the realm of being a cult -- and changed it into a Bible-teaching church.  In April 2009, the Worldwide Church of God changed its name in the United States to Grace Communion International.  I would imagine that was to escape the cloud, or shadow, which is still cast by the name of Herbert W. Armstrong.

The move toward alignment with the mainstream Christian church, of course, resulted in a church split.  Those who were died-in-the-wool Armstrong followers left and formed about six other churches which would continue to teach some forms of Armstrongisms.

But, you can see what happens when a church begins to place more authority in traditions (Armstrongisms is a good example) -- than in the Written Word of God, the Bible.

Yet, if you are happy in the Roman Catholic church, I am not trying to convert you nor change your mind.  My sole purpose in these writings is to challenge and refute teachings, traditions, rituals, etc., which are claimed to be Biblical -- yet, are not.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

2 Timothy 3-16,17 - Canyon

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More reruns from the forum's rerun king. He continues to make a fool of himself by refusing to understand what people here say. I think he's like a robot or something. He has certain data in his banks and anything that isn't there does not compute. And his "gift of writing" is paling more and more with every post.

 

There is nothing to see here folks. We've seen it all before. It didn't make any sense the first time, and it makes no sense now on it's fiftieth (or more) appearance.

Hi O No,

 

Thank you, my "Christian" sister.  It is so gratifying to see Christians in fellowship.  You did tell us you are a Christian believer -- right?

 

In the meantime, I may as well go ahead and say hello to my faithful fan, follower, and Friend -- Chick -- for I know that before the ink is dry on what I am writing -- she will be here, offering her support and love, also.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Gimme A Hug

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion I began titled "Throw It Against The Wall And See If It Sticks!" -- a Roman Catholic Friend keeps repeatedly posting, over and over, what he had already posted, claiming that the Bible teaches the Roman Catholic traditions of purgatory and prayer for the dead.  Since he repeatedly posted the same post over and over, I suggested he is "Throwing it against the wall, hoping something will stick."

And, another Friend comes to his defense, telling me, "The biggest point that he made (again.....) is that the Bible tells us that there is much more than what is written - hold fast to tradition.  Thus refuting sola scriptura.  And anyway, you can't claim things are unbiblical when you fail to use the Bible in its entirety."

Of course, by "the Bible in its entirety" she is referring to the Apocrypha which are extra-biblical history books and not Biblical canon.  Even Jerome, when Pope Leo commissioned him to translate Scripture into Latin for the Roman Catholic church, did not include the Apocrypha.  Later, he was forced, by Pope Leo, to include those books in the Roman Catholic Bible.  Why?  Because most of the Roman Catholic traditions are found ONLY in the Apocrypha.  Pope Leo had to have the Apocrypha in his Bible -- or else, virtually all of their established traditions would be null and void.

She was responding to the comment which my Roman Catholic Friend wrote to me, is his usual civil (?) manner, "You just wish they were unbiblical.  But you know they aren't, and you're too stupid or ignorant to realize sola scriptura isn't biblical.  If you have proof sola scriptura is biblical, show me."

First, let's address her question of "tradition."  What does the Bible say about traditions, especially those created by man, to control or rule man, as was the way of the Pharisees?

In the Old Testament, God tells the Jews through Isaiah:


Isaiah 29:13 (nasb) "Then the Lord said, 'Because this people draw near with their words And honor Me with their lip service, But they remove their hearts far from Me, And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote.' "

 

And, in the New Testament, Jesus had a lot to say about Pharisaical traditions:


Matthew 15:2-3 (nkjv), "'Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?  For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.'   He (Jesus) answered and said to them, 'Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?' "

Matthew 15:6 (nkjv), "'Then he need not honor his father or mother.' Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition."

Mark 7:8 (nkjv), "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men -- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do."

Mark 7:9 (nkjv), "He (Jesus) said to them, 'All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.' "

Mark 7:13 (nkjv), "Making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down.  And many such things you do."

Colossians 2:8 (nkjv), "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ."

1 Peter 1:18 (nkjv), "Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers."


The only Scripture passage which might even possibly come close to her way of thinking regarding "tradition" -- is when Paul is admonishing the church at Thessalonica to avoid those who are not walking by the example of the Christian life which Paul and his co-workers for Christ had taught them.  This had absolutely nothing to do with false doctrines such as purgatory, praying for the dead, Mariology, apostolic succession, etc.:


2 Thessalonians 3:6-7 (nkjv), "But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us.  For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you."

 

Now, regarding the belief in Sola Scriptura, which means "by Scripture alone."


2 Timothy 3:16 (nasb), "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Question:  "What is Sola Scriptura?"    http://www.gotquestions.org/sola-scriptura.html

Answer:  The phrase sola scriptura is from the Latin: sola having the idea of “alone,” “ground,” “base,” and the word scriptura meaning “writings” -- referring to the Scriptures.  Sola Scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian

 

The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true.    “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).

For centuries the Roman Catholic Church had made its traditions superior in authority to the Bible.  This resulted in many practices that were in fact contradictory to the Bible.  Some examples are prayer to saints and/or Mary, the immaculate conception, transubstantiation, infant baptism, indulgences, and papal authority.

The primary (Roman) Catholic argument against sola scriptura is that the Bible does not explicitly teach sola scriptura.  Catholics argue that the Bible nowhere states that it is the only authoritative guide for faith and practice.  While this is true, they fail to recognize a crucially important issue.  We know that the Bible is the Word of God.

The Bible declares itself to be God-breathed, inerrant, and authoritative.  We also know that God does not change His mind or contradict Himself.  So, while the Bible itself may not explicitly argue for sola scriptura, it most definitely does not allow for traditions that contradict its messageSola Scriptura is not as much of an argument against tradition as it is an argument against unbiblical, extra-biblical and/or anti-biblical doctrines.

The only way to know for sure what God expects of us is to stay true to what we know He has revealed -- the Bible.  We can know, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that Scripture is true, authoritative, and reliable.  The same cannot be said of tradition.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

So, my Friends, as I have written a number of times, if you are happy in the Roman Catholic church; God bless you.   But, when you come on the Religion Forum sharing nonBiblical traditions -- and claiming they are from the Bible, I will have to refute those statements.   By the same token, if you feel that what I write is not Biblical, bring it to my attention and let's discuss the issue.

As a matter of fact, that is what we are doing in this discussion.  You claim that Roman Catholic traditions have an equal, or often higher, authority than Scripture.   And, I am showing you, from Scripture, from the words of Jesus Himself -- that is not true.

Use the Apocrypha, and other extra-Biblical books, as good history -- but, do not use them to build a theology to be followed and taught by any church.   You tell me that we should, and must, use the entire Bible.  I agree with you completely.  But, let's assure that we are following the Bible, and not non-canonical history books (the Apocrypha) or commentaries.

Any theology not based upon the entire Bible -- is not a Biblical theology and should be discarded.

A good example of discarding an erroneous theology which is not Biblical could be seen when Herbert W. Armstrong, found and leader of the Worldwide Church of God, died in 1986.  He was replaced as head of that church by Joseph W. Tkach.  Shortly after that, Tkach changed that church's Statement of Beliefs, i.e., what it believes and teaches -- bringing the church into alignment with mainstream, Biblical teaching. 

 

In other words, Tkach took the Worldwide Church of God out the realm of being a cult -- and changed it into a Bible-teaching church.  In April 2009, the Worldwide Church of God changed its name in the United States to Grace Communion International.  I would imagine that was to escape the cloud, or shadow, which is still cast by the name of Herbert W. Armstrong.

The move toward alignment with the mainstream Christian church, of course, resulted in a church split.  Those who were died-in-the-wool Armstrong followers left and formed about six other churches which would continue to teach some forms of Armstrongisms.

But, you can see what happens when a church begins to place more authority in traditions (Armstrongisms is a good example) -- than in the Written Word of God, the Bible.

Yet, if you are happy in the Roman Catholic church, I am not trying to convert you nor change your mind.  My sole purpose in these writings is to challenge and refute teachings, traditions, rituals, etc., which are claimed to be Biblical -- yet, are not.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

 

_________________

#3, #7, #8, #9 and I'm going to have to add one more to the list #11 (Bibliolatry nonsense).

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi O No,

 

Thank you, my "Christian" sister.  It is so gratifying to see Christians in fellowship.  You did tell us you are a Christian believer -- right?

 

In the meantime, I may as well go ahead and say hello to my faithful fan, follower, and Friend -- Chick -- for I know that before the ink is dry on what I am writing -- she will be here, offering her support and love, also.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

_________________

Chick isn't the only predictable one around here - #9.

S-I-G-H.... Billie Boy when are you going to wake up and realize that you have no friends here... Who are these "friends" you speak of? Now before you go off on one of your long but empty of truth diatribes know this: 1) I am not Catholic, 2) I am a Christian (but please not your Christian brother - gag)! I was at one time a Baptist... That out of the way, how can you profess to doing God's work when, in fact, you are doing the work of Satan? You are driving away so many of those you say you are attempting to save. Most of the uninitiated who venture into this forum and read your almost hourly blather think to themselves: "This is Christianity?" and rapidly depart. Not me Billie Boy or BeeGee or whatever alias you are using today. I'll be around for a while. When you post off topic, I'll be here to let you know. When within your diatribes you lie and say you never attack anyone or call people liars, I'll be here to correct you. When you call people "friend" or "brother/sister" I'll be here to remind you that you have no friends here and none of us wish to be your "brother/sister" -- except of course your several alias identies. And so, Billie Boy, why don't you just move on to more fertile grounds such as newcomers to your church who may need your help? If not, get used to having me here. Someone who you cannot claim has a Catholic bias. Nor can you hit me with the atheist hammer... I look forward to reading how you handle that BeeGee  -- Ooops -- Billie Boy...

quote:   Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone.:

Dove of Peace> "Billie Boy when are you going to wake up and realize that you have no friends here..."


Dove, i am a forum friend of Mr Bill, and his sister in the Kingdom, as are all Christians everywhere. An oversight i'm sure, but wanted the facts to be correct. Blessings to you <>< 


Hi Hippie Girl,

 

You are more than just a Forum Friend; why, you are almost family.   That said, let's watch Chick, Crusty, Dove, et al, start trying to dig that out of Facebook!  Oh, well, at times we just have to give our children toys to entertain themselves.

 

And, I thank you, my Christian sister.  One day all we nasty old Christians will be doing a "tip toe through the tulips" in heaven -- while our irascible adversaries are still spitting, fuming, and fussing about how unfair God is (even those who still hide their heads under the blanky and declare He does not exist) -- because they had to make a choice.  Oh, my, how unfair of God.

 

Of course, you do realize, Hippie Girl, that now Chick will be going on a rampage about how badly I have just insulted her and all her Friends. 

 

But, Chick, before I go to do something important -- like eat -- let me just remind you that God is still waiting for YOU to come and be His friend.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Gimme A Hug

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Hippie Girl,

 

You are more than just a Forum Friend; why, you are almost family.   That said, let's watch Chick, Crusty, Dove, et al, start trying to dig that out of Facebook!  Oh, well, at times we just have to give our children toys to entertain themselves.

 

And, I thank you, my Christian sister.  One day all we nasty old Christians will be doing a "tip toe through the tulips" in heaven -- while our irascible adversaries are still spitting, fuming, and fussing about how unfair God is (even those who still hide their heads under the blanky and declare He does not exist) -- because they had to make a choice.  Oh, my, how unfair of God.

 

Of course, you do realize, Hippie Girl, that now Chick will be going on a rampage about how badly I have just insulted her and all her Friends. 

 

But, Chick, before I go to do something important -- like eat -- let me just remind you that God is still waiting for YOU to come and be His friend.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

_____________

What does Facebook have to do with this?  #8, #9

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi O No,

 

Thank you, my "Christian" sister.  It is so gratifying to see Christians in fellowship.  You did tell us you are a Christian believer -- right? 

In the meantime, I may as well go ahead and say hello to my faithful fan, follower, and Friend -- Chick -- for I know that before the ink is dry on what I am writing -- she will be here, offering her support and love, also. 

Bill

 __________

You were wrong weren't you, Billy? Your post is approx. 12 hrs. old so I guess the ink has more than dried on your silly post. You got one thing right & that's my support & love for my friend, O No, whenever she needs it. That's something you don't understand because you don't have any friends. Sad, isn't it, that you have to shout I'm a Chrisian while, at the same time, putting others down & making fun of them, to make yourself feel good.

You're not fooling anyone, Billy. You put it out there for everyone to see the truth.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Hippie Girl, 

You are more than just a Forum Friend; why, you are almost family. That said, let's watch Chick, Crusty, Dove, et al, start trying to dig that out of Facebook! 

Bill

______

Originally Posted by CrustyMac: 

What does Facebook have to do with this?

______

I would like to know the answer to that too, but I seriously doubt we will get one.

Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:

Billie Boy when are you going to wake up and realize that you have no friends here.

_________  

Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone.:

Dove, i am a forum friend of Mr Bill, and his sister in the Kingdom, as are all Christians everywhere. An oversight i'm sure, but wanted the facts to be correct. Blessings to you <><

__________

hippie, I have to ask & it's sincere questions to try & understand those of you that say you're a Christian & claim Bill as your friend. (your answer will tell me if you're one of Bill's ID's)

 

How can you, in good conscience, agree with Bill 's treatment of others? Do you honestly not see his constant condemnation of others? There is such a thing as a healthy debate but can you show me one post where Bill has ever had a healthy debate with anyone on this forum?

 

It's constantly.........you're in a cult, that's not what that scripture means, you're in the wrong church, he makes fun of others, makes nasty remarks with his cartoons because he doesn't want it to come out of his mouth.......should I go on? 

 

You could say he does that because he's attacked by others here. Have you ever thought of why he's attacked? Common sense should tell you it's those reasons I just gave. It's been that way with Bill from the very beginning.

 

If you were an un-believer, would you want to be a part of the kind of Christianity that Bill puts out there? No love, no kindness, no compassion, no understandling of people......just a constant daily rebuke? Can you honestly say you would? No one, not even Bill, is perfect, and no one is ever 100% correct. I'm not condeming or attacking you, I just want your honest opinion.

 

BTW, what, exactly, is the oversight that you mentioned to Dove?

 

 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Hippie Girl, 

You are more than just a Forum Friend; why, you are almost family. That said, let's watch Chick, Crusty, Dove, et al, start trying to dig that out of Facebook! 

Bill

______

Originally Posted by CrustyMac: 

What does Facebook have to do with this?

______

I would like to know the answer to that too, but I seriously doubt we will get one.

____

You forget who you're talking about.  There will be at least five answers, in separate threads.

Each one will include 4000 words of text and a cartoon.


 

Originally Posted by Aeneas:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Hippie Girl, 

You are more than just a Forum Friend; why, you are almost family. That said, let's watch Chick, Crusty, Dove, et al, start trying to dig that out of Facebook! 

Bill

______

Originally Posted by CrustyMac: 

What does Facebook have to do with this?

______

I would like to know the answer to that too, but I seriously doubt we will get one.

____

You forget who you're talking about.  There will be at least five answers, in separate threads.

Each one will include 4000 words of text and a cartoon.

 

********************************************************

And all those threads should be ignored, billie-je thinks he has a

ring in everyone's nose and he can lead everybody around as he pleases.

 

The reason billie tries to keep everyone in a defensive mode is to keep

people answering questions. He does this to hide his inability to prove

his false beliefs. The mark of your typical habitual pathological liar.
 

 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:

Billie Boy when are you going to wake up and realize that you have no friends here.

_________  

Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone.:

Dove, i am a forum friend of Mr Bill, and his sister in the Kingdom, as are all Christians everywhere. An oversight i'm sure, but wanted the facts to be correct. Blessings to you <><

__________

hippie, I have to ask & it's sincere questions to try & understand those of you that say you're a Christian & claim Bill as your friend. (your answer will tell me if you're one of Bill's ID's)

HG> To give you a short answer without lengthy detail, Mr Bill and i believe in the same God and study from the same Bible. i don't answer for his comments, nor he mine. All of us will answer to God on Judgement Day for unfit/idle words spoken. 

To my knowledge, we are of different 'denominations' (as some call it), and i'm sure we believe different on some issues, but none that change eternal destiny. 

 

How can you, in good conscience, agree with Bill 's treatment of others? Do you honestly not see his constant condemnation of others? There is such a thing as a healthy debate but can you show me one post where Bill has ever had a healthy debate with anyone on this forum?

HG> God assigned me here to share Him and His great Love for us. My opinion on any of Mr Bill's personal comments is worthless. Only what God thinks is important. As i said, that's between Mr Bill and His Creator, as it is with all of us.

 

It's constantly.........you're in a cult, that's not what that scripture means, you're in the wrong church, he makes fun of others, makes nasty remarks with his cartoons because he doesn't want it to come out of his mouth.......should I go on? 

 

You could say he does that because he's attacked by others here. Have you ever thought of why he's attacked? Common sense should tell you it's those reasons I just gave. It's been that way with Bill from the very beginning. HG> I am taught to 'do unto others'. i totally believe in sowing and reaping, and have witnessed this phenom many times thru experiences in my own life.

 

If you were an un-believer, would you want to be a part of the kind of Christianity that Bill puts out there? No love, no kindness, no compassion, no understandling of people......just a constant daily rebuke? Can you honestly say you would? 

HG> Mr Bill and I are called to different ways of presenting Truth. God knows how to be effective thru many ways. I don't question His ways, regardless. God's ways are so much higher than mine, and only He knows how one might be drawn to Him.  

No one, not even Bill, is perfect, and no one is ever 100% correct.

HG> Absolutely true, ever since sin entered the world thru man. I don't think Mr Bill would dispute that.

I'm not condeming or attacking you, I just want your honest opinion.

HG> no problem, i am never personally offended. Since Holy Spirit lives within me, i have died to my flesh, therefore offence thru my flesh is impossible. of course it is a discipline i continually work thru, for my flesh must die daily.


i guess the jist of this is that Mr Bill is my brother thru the Blood of Christ, much like my earthly brother is related thru the bloodline of our parents. Regardless of his conduct etc, my earthly brother wasn't mine to choose and not mine to disown. God chose my earthly family, and God designated the particulars of being in His Spiritual family. I cannot add or delete from either. 

 

BTW, what, exactly, is the oversight that you mentioned to Dove?

HG> 

Dove of Peace> "Billie Boy when are you going to wake up and realize that you have no friends here..."

Dove,

i am a forum friend of Mr Bill, and his sister in the Kingdom, as are all Christians every where. An oversight i'm sure, but wanted the facts to be correct. Blessings to you <><


ps. haha, not an ID of Mr Bills, never personally met him, just here on the forum and later thru emails. thru those i found that i've known a brother of his for many years.

Blessings to you Chick, HG<>< 

 

 

Last edited by thehippiegirl is gone.
Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone.:

Dove of Peace> "Billie Boy when are you going to wake up and realize that you have no friends here..."


Dove, i am a forum friend of Mr Bill, and his sister in the Kingdom, as are all Christians everywhere. An oversight i'm sure, but wanted the facts to be correct. Blessings to you <><

 

Yes DoP you are wrong. I am also one of Bill’s friends. Bill is very intelligent and is no lightweight when it comes to expressing himself.  Crusty your number list is infantile. You might as well use profanity. That would be a step up for your contributions to the forum

Originally Posted by Chillin&Grillin:

 Crusty your number list is infantile. You might as well use profanity. That would be a step up for your contributions to the forum

________________

But accurate and to the point, right?  Whether or not it is infantile rests solely on the subject matter and delivery of Bill's posts. 

Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone:

To give you a short answer without lengthy detail, Mr Bill and i believe in the same God and study from the same Bible. i don't answer for his comments, nor he mine. All of us will answer to God on Judgement Day for unfit/idle words spoken.

To my knowledge, we are of different 'denominations' (as some call it), and i'm sure we believe different on some issues, but none that change eternal destiny.

God assigned me here to share Him and His great Love for us. My opinion on any of Mr Bill's personal comments is worthless. Only what God thinks is important. As i said, that's between Mr Bill and His Creator, as it is with all of us.

         

I am taught to 'do unto others'. i totally believe in sowing and reaping, and have witnessed this phenom many times thru experiences in my own life.

Mr Bill and I are called to different ways of presenting Truth. God knows how to be effective thru many ways. I don't question His ways, regardless. God's ways are so much higher than mine, and only He knows how one might be drawn to Him.

Absolutely true, ever since sin entered the world thru man. I don't think Mr Bill would dispute that.

no problem, i am never personally offended. Since Holy Spirit lives within me, i have died to my flesh, therefore offence thru my flesh is impossible. of course it is a discipline i continually work thru, for my flesh must die daily.

i guess the jist of this is that Mr Bill is my brother thru the Blood of Christ, much like my earthly brother is related thru the bloodline of our parents. Regardless of his conduct etc, my earthly brother wasn't mine to choose and not mine to disown. God chose my earthly family, and God designated the particulars of being in His Spiritual family. I cannot add or delete from either.

ps. haha, not an ID of Mr Bills, never personally met him, just here on the forum and later thru emails. thru those i found that i've known a brother of his for many years.

Blessings to you Chick, HG<><

_______

Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:

Billie Boy when are you going to wake up and realize that you have no friends here..

_______

Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone:

Dove,

i am a forum friend of Mr Bill, and his sister in the Kingdom, as are all Christians every where. An oversight i'm sure, but wanted the facts to be correct. Blessings to you <><

_______ 

Originally Posted by Chillin&Grillin:

Yes DoP you are wrong. I am also one of Bill’s friends. Bill is very intelligent and is no lightweight when it comes to expressing himself. Crusty your number list is infantile. You might as well use profanity. That would be a step up for your contributions to the forum.

________

 Hippie, you and C&G are 2 of those peope that see life as all purfume & roses, refusing to see the world accept thru rose colored glasses.

I got news for you both. Just because someone says they believe in God does not make them a Christian. Just because someone says they're a Christian does not make them a Christian. 

 

Hippie, you do answer for Bill's comments. Everytime you cheer him on for his treatment of people, you are letting everyone here know that you agree with what he says & how he says it. Yes, all of us will answer to God (if He exist) on Judgement Day for every word/deed spoken. You & CG should stop & think about the deeds you're going to answer for when you cheer someone like Bill on.   It's clear neithrer of you have the skills of Spiritual Discernment.

 

You believe that God assigned you here to share Him, but no one is listening to you becuase of your support of Bill Gray. There's a couple of Christians on here that you & CG could learn from, just as Bill could, but it'll never happen. BTW, your sowing & reaping isn't working, & you are still a human being, your flesh isn't dead. If it was, you wouldn't be talking to people the way you do. Most people here is not going to take you serious because of your admiration of & your cheering for Bill. 

 

CG, if you think Bill Gray is intelligent all and is here for anyone but his own ego, you are as bad as he is. I feel sorry for you & Hippie.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:



Yet, if you are happy in the Roman Catholic church, I am not trying to convert you nor change your mind.  My sole purpose in these writings is to challenge and refute teachings, traditions, rituals, etc., which are claimed to be Biblical -- yet, are not.

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

This entire thread is full of misconceptions ( if a misconceptions is intended

to deceive, then  it's a lie.

 

Did I say I put the Bible over Tradition? No, you lied.

I have always said Bible plus Tradition. Your (one of them) problem Billie

is you are unaware there is more than one way to use the word Tradition.

 

Here is one way to use the word Tradition when combined with the Bible.

 

1 Cor 11:2---hold fast to traditions I handed on to you

2Thess 2:15--hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter

2Thess 3:6---shun those acting not according to tradition

Jn 21:25--not everything Jesus said recorded in scripture

Acts 20:35--Paul records a saying of Jesus not found in gospels

Rom 10:17--faith comes from what is heard

Mt 23:2-3--chair of Moses;observe whatever they tell you

 

There are many more scriptures supporting tradition in the OT and NT.

Jesus and the apostles taught by way of tradition.

 

  My sole purpose in these writings is to challenge and refute teachings, traditions, rituals, etc., which are claimed to be Biblical -- yet, are not.

 

billie, you say---yet, are not. Prove tradition isn't Biblical.

 

Originally Posted by Chillin&Grillin:

Semi hun give it up. Bill is one of Millions of Baptists who believe in the rapture OSAS and will respond just like Bill about religion. He is not unique.  He is a good dude. You would love him.

_________

Give up what?  I'm entitled to my opinion as well as you or anyone else on this forum. If Bill can get on here & lie, why can't I refute his lies?

Hi Vic,

 

You declare that the Roman Catholic church does not place Tradition in a place of higher authority than the Bible.   Okay.

 

Then, when the Bible and Roman Catholic Tradition disagree, as they often do -- which, in the eyes of the Roman Catholic church, is accepted as being right -- Tradition or the Bible?

 

Which has the higher authority?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

 

You declare that the Roman Catholic church does not place Tradition in a place of higher authority than the Bible.   Okay.

 

Then, when the Bible and Roman Catholic Tradition disagree, as they often do -- which, in the eyes of the Roman Catholic church, is accepted as being right -- Tradition or the Bible?

 

Which has the higher authority?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

#11 and #8 here.  Except for your own misinterpretation of the Bible, I doubt the Catholic Church's doctrine disagrees with it.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

 

You declare that the Roman Catholic church does not place Tradition in a place of higher authority than the Bible.   Okay.

 

Then, when the Bible and Roman Catholic Tradition disagree, as they often do -- which, in the eyes of the Roman Catholic church, is accepted as being right -- Tradition or the Bible?

 

Which has the higher authority?

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

The Bible is Catholic. All the books the Holy Spirit closed within the Bible

are all still there. You might not have heard me, God closed the Bible.

 

The Bible and Tradition work together insofar as the written word and the

teaching of Christ. Every word of the new and old testament were at one

time handed down by way of tradition.

 

There are other means of tradition besides the written word.

 

Still waiting on you to prove tradition isn't Biblical

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

The Bible is Catholic. All the books the Holy Spirit closed within the Bible

are all still there. You might not have heard me, God closed the Bible.

The Bible and Tradition work together insofar as the written word and the teaching of Christ. Every word of the new and old testament were at one time handed down by way of tradition.

There are other means of tradition besides the written word.

_______

So you don't live according to the Bible since you believe God closed it?

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Chillin&Grillin:

Semi hun give it up. Bill is one of Millions of Baptists who believe in the rapture OSAS and will respond just like Bill about religion. He is not unique.  He is a good dude. You would love him.

_________

Give up what?  I'm entitled to my opinion as well as you or anyone else on this forum. If Bill can get on here & lie, why can't I refute his lies?

======================

Semi I offer this for your consideration:

From Salon a Sage according to Thales:

“If ye have suffered sadly through your own wickedness, lay not the blame for this upon the gods. For it is you yourselves who gave pledges to your foes and made them great; this is why you bear the brand of slavery. Every one of you treadeth in the footsteps of the fox, yet in the mass ye have little sense. Ye look to the speech and fair words of a flatterer, paying no regard to any practical result.”

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone:

To give you a short answer without lengthy detail, Mr Bill and i believe in the same God and study from the same Bible. i don't answer for his comments, nor he mine. All of us will answer to God on Judgement Day for unfit/idle words spoken.

To my knowledge, we are of different 'denominations' (as some call it), and i'm sure we believe different on some issues, but none that change eternal destiny.

God assigned me here to share Him and His great Love for us. My opinion on any of Mr Bill's personal comments is worthless. Only what God thinks is important. As i said, that's between Mr Bill and His Creator, as it is with all of us.

         

I am taught to 'do unto others'. i totally believe in sowing and reaping, and have witnessed this phenom many times thru experiences in my own life.

Mr Bill and I are called to different ways of presenting Truth. God knows how to be effective thru many ways. I don't question His ways, regardless. God's ways are so much higher than mine, and only He knows how one might be drawn to Him.

Absolutely true, ever since sin entered the world thru man. I don't think Mr Bill would dispute that.

no problem, i am never personally offended. Since Holy Spirit lives within me, i have died to my flesh, therefore offence thru my flesh is impossible. of course it is a discipline i continually work thru, for my flesh must die daily.

i guess the jist of this is that Mr Bill is my brother thru the Blood of Christ, much like my earthly brother is related thru the bloodline of our parents. Regardless of his conduct etc, my earthly brother wasn't mine to choose and not mine to disown. God chose my earthly family, and God designated the particulars of being in His Spiritual family. I cannot add or delete from either.

ps. haha, not an ID of Mr Bills, never personally met him, just here on the forum and later thru emails. thru those i found that i've known a brother of his for many years.

Blessings to you Chick, HG<><

_______

Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:

Billie Boy when are you going to wake up and realize that you have no friends here..

_______

Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone:

Dove,

i am a forum friend of Mr Bill, and his sister in the Kingdom, as are all Christians every where. An oversight i'm sure, but wanted the facts to be correct. Blessings to you <><

_______ 

Originally Posted by Chillin&Grillin:

Yes DoP you are wrong. I am also one of Bill’s friends. Bill is very intelligent and is no lightweight when it comes to expressing himself. Crusty your number list is infantile. You might as well use profanity. That would be a step up for your contributions to the forum.

________

 Hippie, you and C&G are 2 of those peope that see life as all purfume & roses, refusing to see the world accept thru rose colored glasses.

hg> the devil tries to fill my life with dung and weeds. yet since i've given my life to God, He makes all that turn to perfume and roses for me. if life is good, it's ok to see it as good. so yes, in a way, you are correct.  

 

I got news for you both. Just because someone says they believe in God does not make them a Christian. Just because someone says they're a Christian does not make them a Christian. 

hg> i agree that all who wear the name of Christ aren't Christians. but i certainly don't have the authority to override such a claim. Christ knows who are His.

 

Hippie, you do answer for Bill's comments. Everytime you cheer him on for his treatment of people, you are letting everyone here know that you agree with what he says & how he says it. Yes, all of us will answer to God (if He exist) on Judgement Day for every word/deed spoken. You & CG should stop & think about the deeds you're going to answer for when you cheer someone like Bill on.   It's clear neithrer of you have the skills of Spiritual Discernment.

hg>  i have never 'hoorayed or booed' a personal comment you think derogatory from Mr Bill. His personal comments are his own. i don't comment because my 'opinion' matters not, only God's. i do however, applaud his posts when i feel he has presented a subject well and made it easy to understand. He explains scripture much better than i can, one of his God-gifts no doubt. Anything he posts taken personal from him has nothing to do with me, even if you think it does. 

 

You believe that God assigned you here to share Him, but no one is listening to you becuase of your support of Bill Gray. There's a couple of Christians on here that you & CG could learn from, just as Bill could, but it'll never happen. BTW, your sowing & reaping isn't working, & you are still a human being, your flesh isn't dead. If it was, you wouldn't be talking to people the way you do. Most people here is not going to take you serious because of your admiration of & your cheering for Bill.

hg> my purpose here has nothing to do with whether ANYone reads or listens to my posts, takes me seriously, or considers me laughable. My only purpose is to obey God in speaking as He leads me. Some people put much weight in man's opinion, when actually it holds no weight at all.

Sowing and reaping is alive and well in all of us. As for myself, God is great to bless me beyond my giving, and gracious with His mercy when i fail Him. But you have no idea about my sowing and reaping, so saying that you have knowledge of it is not truthful. indeed i am human, but my flesh does die. the scriptures say that i am to 'die to my flesh daily'. 

 

CG, if you think Bill Gray is intelligent all and is here for anyone but his own ego, you are as bad as he is. I feel sorry for you & Hippie.

hg> Chick, feeling sorry for me is a waste of your time, but to each his own. 

I can see where it would be difficult for someone who denies God's authority to wrap their mind around things they don't understand about God's ways with His children, but that doesn't negate His Truth. He is alive and well in my life, regardless of any belief to the contrary. 

Blessings to you, hg<>< 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Chick,

 

You tell Hippie Girl, "You believe that God assigned you here to share Him, but no one is listening to you becuase (sic) of your support of Bill Gray."

 

If you will visit my new discussion titled "Are Christians Assigned To The Religion Forum?" -- I believe I have answered your question.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Hi Vic,

 

Sorry, my Friend -- but, traditions, when used in religion, are man-made rituals, laws, doctrines, and dogmas.  And, really have nothing to do with God.  This is man's means of trying to make himself a god -- and we all know what happened to Lucifer/Satan when he tried to be equal to God.

 

Religion, as in the Roman Catholic traditions, rituals, doctrines, and dogmas -- are all man-made. 

 

Christianity is not about religion -- it is 100% about relationship.   

 

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

 

That is the Christian faith, that is relationship.   Salvation by grace, through faith -- plus nothing else.  That is a saving relationship with Jesus Christ -- and that is the only WAY into heaven.   Do you have it?

 

Vic, can you tell us today that you KNOW you will go to heaven when you die -- and spend eternity with God?

 

Can your Pope or any of your Roman Catholic leaders say that they KNOW they will go to heaven when they die -- and spend eternity with God?

 

If not, why not?

 

My Friend, that is the difference between a relationship with Jesus Christ -- and religion.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Plus nothing else? Says bill gray. James 2:20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. Sorry- I'm not calling you foolish- that's St James. And I think I would I'd believe him over you. Now, you will go on to say "oh but works are the fruit of salvation". I know plenty of people who are "saved" yet they are selfish, self righteous and do no charity. I think this is what James is warning about. It's not enough to profess Jesus, we have to ACT like him in taking care of our fellow man. And no, that doesn't automatically just happen when we "get saved"

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