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My sister-in-law visiting this week end has a book entitled "Helen Keller - Sketch for a Portrait", by Van Wyck Brooks.

Referring to Ivy Green , it states that ""... across from the Keller homestead , which was called "Ivy Green" stood an old deserted house of Andrew Jackson."

I have never heard of any mention of Andrew Jackson (I am assuming that is referring to "Old Hickory") as ever having owned a house in Tuscumbia, or any where else in the area for that matter.
Has any of you ever heard, or know of that association?

 

 

 

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“Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.”
― Thomas Paine

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Never heard of it, I remember a tennis court across from her house, but no deserted houses or one they claimed was jackson's, but I guess anything is possible. You'd think if it had been there it would have been preserved by the "hysterical society" as some called them.

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Early History

Tuscumbia lies in the area of Alabama originally traversed by French traders. Between 1815 and 1817, permanent non-Indian settlers arrived. They found rich farmland and abundant game. In 1820, Gen. Andrew Jackson oversaw completion of a military road connecting Tennessee with Louisiana, passing through Tuscumbia along the way. It became the area's major overland transportation route. The Tennessee River provided the area with another potential transportation route, but a 43-mile stretch of shoals made the river nearly impassable. Despite this, Tuscumbia's accessible location and fertile soil allowed it to become north Alabama's farming, agriculture, and commercial center.

 

http://www.encyclopediaofalaba...rticle.jsp?id=h-2164

Hi all,

 

I remember when I was about 12 we lived in Keller Court and used to play down by Ivy Green.  Back then it was not a museum and we could walk around the grounds.  The pump was there.  And we even went into the small house where Anne Sullivan took Helen Keller to isolate them. 

 

To the east of the Keller home, across the street, there was a big home where my brother and I used to go and pick up pecans fallen from the trees on the property.   No idea who owned the home; just that it was a large home.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Contendah:

If some Native American had a house in Tuscumbia and Andrew Jackson wanted it, he probably would have had the Native American shot and taken the house for himself. Jackson was a genocidal monster.

 

+++

 

Suggest you do some background reading on the Sioux [Cherokee] alliance with the British Tories in the SC backcountry in the mid 1700's and their atrocities on civilians in the Waxhaws where Jackson was raised pre-teen to give you the proper mindset regarding his attitude toward these savage allies in later in his adult life life.  Secondly, do further research into his alliance with certain other Native Americans which assisted in his victory in New Orleans.  If genocide was his objective, why not kill them all as Hitler rather than displace them?  Why allow them to regroup and fight again against the Federal Government such as Cherokee Chief and Confederate General Stand Watie did during the War for Southern Independence did against Union forces of the Grand and the Indian killers of Custer unless Jackson foresaw a greater future, combined need.

 

 You have demonstrated zero knowledge of the word as applied.

 

Otherwise, in time of military events, it was not at all uncommon for a commander to commander a house for his temporary headquarters.  There's hardly a old house on the east coast that doesn't bear the sign up and down the Kings Highway "Washing slept here."  And like Washington, after business was concluded, moved on.

 

But to give the Cherokees a pass for their part in they took in attempting the thwart the freedom of this county is playing ludicrous.  Would be the same as blaming all those slave trading ships flying flags of the Confederacy.  For those of you who have watched "Unto these Hills," please remember these events take place after their misplaced loyalist to the Brits and after the RexWar when passion ran high to exterminate them all.  In fact the Trial of Tears was their only hope of survival in a land which had rather burned them out as they had done their victims.

 

In fact, it was Jackson who stood between the Cherokee and genocide.    

 

Nice try, Contendah, like a  Hitler-in-drag drama queen.  

 

 

Originally Posted by Contendah:

If some Native American had a house in Tuscumbia and Andrew Jackson wanted it, he probably would have had the Native American shot and taken the house for himself. Jackson was a genocidal monster.

Yep! 

Let's just re-write history.

How 'bout all those Mezicans erased under...The Mexican/American War...Ya' know ...under James Polk...DEMOCRAT?

Then we have those nasty "Indian Wars"..Ya know? 

Maybe, before you went off on Jackson...you should have tossed the "spelling book" and done a little research on "Indian Wars"?

But, then again, you would have had to have squirmed ...or maybe not, seeing what your U.S. Gov'ment had done.

UNDER...your "Progressives" at the time...

Ever heard of the "Navajo Conflicts"? USA vs Native Navajo?

"Red River War"? William T Sherman? Ya'know? HERO of burning down helpless Southern towns?

Under the US Flag...William T. Sherman led a campaign of more than 14 battles against the Arapaho, Comanche, Cheyenne and Kiowa tribes, who eventually surrendered.1874-75.

 

How about THIS one...again...under the US "Stars and Bars"...

The Wounded Knee Massacre...1890...South Dakota...Following the killing of Sitting BullBig Foottook command of the final band of fighting Lakota (Sioux). They were trapped at Wounded Knee Creek and destroyed by the U.S. Army.

 

So, you want to continue to "*****" about Andrew Jackson???

 

Originally Posted by budsfarm:
Originally Posted by Contendah:

If some Native American had a house in Tuscumbia and Andrew Jackson wanted it, he probably would have had the Native American shot and taken the house for himself. Jackson was a genocidal monster.

 

+++

 

Suggest you do some background reading on the Sioux [Cherokee] alliance with the British Tories in the SC backcountry in the mid 1700's and their atrocities on civilians in the Waxhaws where Jackson was raised pre-teen to give you the proper mindset regarding his attitude toward these savage allies in later in his adult life life.  Secondly, do further research into his alliance with certain other Native Americans which assisted in his victory in New Orleans.  If genocide was his objective, why not kill them all as Hitler rather than displace them?  Why allow them to regroup and fight again against the Federal Government such as Cherokee Chief and Confederate General Stand Watie did during the War for Southern Independence did against Union forces of the Grand and the Indian killers of Custer unless Jackson foresaw a greater future, combined need.

 

 You have demonstrated zero knowledge of the word as applied.

 

Otherwise, in time of military events, it was not at all uncommon for a commander to commander a house for his temporary headquarters.  There's hardly a old house on the east coast that doesn't bear the sign up and down the Kings Highway "Washing slept here."  And like Washington, after business was concluded, moved on.

 

But to give the Cherokees a pass for their part in they took in attempting the thwart the freedom of this county is playing ludicrous.  Would be the same as blaming all those slave trading ships flying flags of the Confederacy.  For those of you who have watched "Unto these Hills," please remember these events take place after their misplaced loyalist to the Brits and after the RexWar when passion ran high to exterminate them all.  In fact the Trial of Tears was their only hope of survival in a land which had rather burned them out as they had done their victims.

 

In fact, it was Jackson who stood between the Cherokee and genocide.    

 

Nice try, Contendah, like a  Hitler-in-drag drama queen.  

_____

So by  your reckoning, that benevolent nature outing, the Trail of Tears, with its thousands of deaths en route from exposure, disease and starvation, was the only "hope of survival" for the Cherokees forced from their homelands under the Indian Removal Act?  Was there no more humane alternative available or was that forced march under brutal and inhumane conditions the only option at hand?  I suppose you could crank out some kind of rationale for the Seminoles, Choctaws, and Chickasaw removals as well, since you have such a good start with the Cherokees.  Those tribes also were forcibly removed under the same legislative authority. 

 

Jackson's youthful experience with Native Americans is no excuse for his genocidal disposition.  As to any temporary alliances Jackson formed with "certain other Native Americans," there is nothing particularly relevant other than to confirm that Jackson was a creature of expediency, as were many in the military in his era, a factor continuing to the present.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:
Originally Posted by Contendah:

If some Native American had a house in Tuscumbia and Andrew Jackson wanted it, he probably would have had the Native American shot and taken the house for himself. Jackson was a genocidal monster.

 

+++

 

Suggest you do some background reading on the Sioux [Cherokee] alliance with the British Tories in the SC backcountry in the mid 1700's and their atrocities on civilians in the Waxhaws where Jackson was raised pre-teen to give you the proper mindset regarding his attitude toward these savage allies in later in his adult life life.  Secondly, do further research into his alliance with certain other Native Americans which assisted in his victory in New Orleans.  If genocide was his objective, why not kill them all as Hitler rather than displace them?  Why allow them to regroup and fight again against the Federal Government such as Cherokee Chief and Confederate General Stand Watie did during the War for Southern Independence did against Union forces of the Grand and the Indian killers of Custer unless Jackson foresaw a greater future, combined need.

 

 You have demonstrated zero knowledge of the word as applied.

 

Otherwise, in time of military events, it was not at all uncommon for a commander to commander a house for his temporary headquarters.  There's hardly a old house on the east coast that doesn't bear the sign up and down the Kings Highway "Washing slept here."  And like Washington, after business was concluded, moved on.

 

But to give the Cherokees a pass for their part in they took in attempting the thwart the freedom of this county is playing ludicrous.  Would be the same as blaming all those slave trading ships flying flags of the Confederacy.  For those of you who have watched "Unto these Hills," please remember these events take place after their misplaced loyalist to the Brits and after the RexWar when passion ran high to exterminate them all.  In fact the Trial of Tears was their only hope of survival in a land which had rather burned them out as they had done their victims.

 

In fact, it was Jackson who stood between the Cherokee and genocide.    

 

Nice try, Contendah, like a  Hitler-in-drag drama queen.  

_____

So by  your reckoning, that benevolent nature outing, the Trail of Tears, with its thousands of deaths en route from exposure, disease and starvation, was the only "hope of survival" for the Cherokees forced from their homelands under the Indian Removal Act?  Was there no more humane alternative available or was that forced march under brutal and inhumane conditions the only option at hand?  I suppose you could crank out some kind of rationale for the Seminoles, Choctaws, and Chickasaw removals as well, since you have such a good start with the Cherokees.  Those tribes also were forcibly removed under the same legislative authority. 

 

Jackson's youthful experience with Native Americans is no excuse for his genocidal disposition.  As to any temporary alliances Jackson formed with "certain other Native Americans," there is nothing particularly relevant other than to confirm that Jackson was a creature of expediency, as were many in the military in his era, a factor continuing to the present.

 

 

 

You do realize don't you that we are still officially at war with the Seminoles ?

seeweed:  Yes I "do realize don't you that we are still officially at war with the Seminoles."  I lived in South Florida for a couple of years and met several Seminoles.  I have eaten at restaurants operated by Seminoles and shopped in stores, including "tourist traps" operated by them. Though they are technically still at war with the U.S., I find it interesting that they enjoy all the freedoms, commercial and otherwise,  that you and I enjoy. To my knowledge they  have not been classified as "enemy combatants."  But If I applied  to these aborigines, who consider themselves at war with my country, the same kind of speculative standards that some folks apply to all resident Muslims in this country, then I would be crusading for a second "Indian Removal Act" to get them out of the good old U.S.A. where we all "know" who is a "real American" and who is not.

Originally Posted by Chuck Farley:

Seems odd that the house would have existed in Helen Keller's day and we wouldn't have any records of it.  I'm skeptical. 

I agree. Helen Keller died when I was in college, so she did not live long long ago. However, she was born in 1880, and Andy Jackson died 35 years before she was born, so I am assuming that there is a possibility  that a house could have existed during his lifetime that was still standing when she was born.
Jackson waged war in central Alabama, and I think it is possible that at some point in time he may have had some temporary headquarters somewhere in Alabama, but like you, I'm kinda skeptical .
Maybe it was like someone earlier said about the "Washington slept here" houses , maybe it was a "Jackson slept here" thing. We know he did camp on the bluffs of Sheffield during his march to New Orleans, and one thing he did during his admin was to build the Jackson Military Highway which parts of it still go by that name in the area. It is not out of the range of possibility.

 

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