Want a new and improved Shoals? Let's talk.

I would also love to hear feedback from anyone who would oppose this kind of change. Speak openly and freely. We need to hear both sides of the issue.

hopefully our next savior will bring more than a golf course/over-priced hotel/ and a fictitious attraction to save us.

I'd like to know more, as it sounds interesting. and its always killed me that people think the river is a national border that you have to go thru check points to cross.

Honestly, I don't see how the area can grow without decent paying jobs.

quote:

Originally posted by vick13:
Honestly, I don't see how the area can grow without decent paying jobs.

That's a big part of it. We must have local officials who will act as lobbyists for big business. And in order to accomplish that, I believe the local mayors and councils must work together as a group and not try and improve one city to the demise of another. It's not enough to improve what's already here.

these cities will never grow until the councils can get their collective noses out of the backsides of certain "powerful" families, who wish to keep the standard of living low so to keep their payrolls low also.

Since moving here many years ago, I have always thought that a combined effort by all in this area would have greater impact than the divided smaller communities. That fight has been fought and there are no takers. Unfortunate! It just makes sense to me, but common sense has never been a strong point here.

As stated before in a previous post, the people running the show here have already made their money. They don't care about the rest of us who are in search of a decent living. They like the status quo. We need to get rid of this bunch, first and foremost.

Sometimes you have to wonder if those powers that be don't enjoy being big fish in a small pond.

We need all the elected officials to have good business sence. They need to know how to market the area to the fullest.

Today our 13 year old asked us for an electric guitar with an amp. He’s been using an old (practically toy) acoustic guitar and well, I guess it doesn’t make as much noise. So, I started searching for musical instrument dealers in North Alabama, and you know how one website leads to this and that. Well, I clicked on the wiki site for Muscle Shoals and the first thing I noticed was the sign.


Today’s welcoming sign only boast one little quarter note in the upper-left side. If you read the wiki site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_Shoals, it list all the hits and artist who have recorded in this area. With rich music heritage, why doesn’t this area boast that more? It would be cool if we had an amphitheater attached to a place like The Wharf in Orange Beach. http://www.thewharfal.com/. We were there last week and it has such a cool atmosphere. I know we have the festivals (Keller & Handy) and the concerts at the Hall of Fame that we all mostly go to, but I’m talking about larger concerts.

So, I know I’m not covering the most important, which is jobs/industry. But it just seems, for the entertainment standpoint, that there’d be more to do in this area with all the hit records that have been recorded here. That could be a concert in itself, have all those (alive and still performing) to have a ‘number one hits’ concert.

My husband works in Decatur and we live in Muscle Shoals. I was born and raised here in Colbert County and while family is part of the reason we decided to stay, the main reason was our kids schooling. We looked at houses in Decatur before we built here and it came down to the choice of sending our kids to Decatur or Austin High as opposed to Muscle Shoals High School. He’s worked there for almost ten years at a place that utilizes the federal waterway. When the product that they make is complete, it comes past our area on a barge on the way to the gulf. I wish we had more types of that industry here. If there were a candidate running who proved that they’d go above and beyond lobbying those big industries here, I’d be glad to vote for them.

We do not have unified Shoals, and probably never will. As long as there is dissension, and jealousy among the leaders of both government and economic development, they will always have someone to point the finger at. A prime example of the resistance to change is Sheffield; with Tuscumbia is a close second, followed by Florence and Muscle Shoals.

It the late 70’s and early 80’s, it was said the Unions were the salvation of the Shoals. Those days have since passed and will never return.

The leaders of Florence and Muscle Shoals talk a good talk, but words alone do not support progress. The cost of doing business in the Shoals increases daily while the quantity and quality of services decreases.

Unless there is a change, the future is dim. No one wants to invest money into a poorly developed, illiterate, disorganized, drug infested community.

There is a reason for the workforce being what it is in the Shoals/Florence area. There is a business that thrives on low paying/temp help. As long as they can keep industry out of the area, they can continue to offer these $6/hr jobs to temp workers. You see if good paying jobs came here, they would have to up their pay or lose the temp help they have now. Oh yes a few go fulltime, but just a few. But good post Lawgirl..... thanks.....

Aint that the truth!

Lawgrl, if you moved from Birmingham you know what the property values are here. We moved here 8 years ago and started looking for a house in the 80-90K range. Found nothing livable in a decent area. They all looked like crime scenes.

Finally moved to the McCalla area and luckily the property values have been on the rise ever since. But if we sold this one and tried to stay in this area we'd blow all the equity on other houses that have appreciated too.

I think many of you are missing the point of this forum that LAWGRL has created here. Rather than the usual and typical complaining about how bad things are (no jobs, dumb politicians, etc.), this should be used as a space where we can come up with SOLID ideas that will lead to solutions. We're all very well aware that many are not happy, however, complaining never solved any problems. Only solutions solve problems. I think that is one major hurdle the people of the Shoals are going to have to overcome.



Anyway, I'm a firm believer that first and foremost the solution begins with job opportunities. If they are available, no one will want to leave in the first place. I think that just focusing primarily on a revitalization of the downtown (which I would love to see happen) will be similar to what the local politicians have been trying to do for years. Their way of thinking has been to make the place attractive through beautification to attract tourists, and jobs will follow. I don't agree with that strategy. I feel that industry should come first, and when that begins to grow, there will be revenue and a need to beautify the area, making it more attractive.

First and foremost: jobs, and not restaurant jobs, or retail jobs. Real ones that will actually keep the younger generations from leaving once they've gotten their degrees.

quote:

Originally posted by LAWGRL:

quote:

Originally posted by vick13:
Honestly, I don't see how the area can grow without decent paying jobs.

That's a big part of it. We must have local officials who will act as lobbyists for big business. And in order to accomplish that, I believe the local mayors and councils must work together as a group and not try and improve one city to the demise of another. It's not enough to improve what's already here.

Even though I doubt this will ever happen, I sometimes think that some sort of metro government would best suit the Shoals area. Think of this: between the four cities and two county governments, how many boards of education do you have? How many different local government agencies could be reduced if everything was consolidated into one? Utilities, law enforcement, schools, etc, etc.

Many will say, "But what about those who would lose their jobs in a consolidation like that?" While their immediate job title may change, I doubt it would be that much of a reduction in the number of people employed by the local governments right now. The only difference is that you reduce redundancy and waste. You also have one solid government working toward one common goal for the whole area. I think having that river between us, and dividing us has been something that has held us back for years.

Thanks Lawgirl, great post.
Here are a couple of things I would like to see happen.
1. Improve transportation infastructure around the area.
A: either re-route the train tracks thru
the three cities in Colbert, or have a
cut for the train tracks to run in
leaving an un-restricted roadway for car
traffic between Sheffield and Tuscumbia,
and at Avalon .
B: We would probably not need an interstate
highway if we had traffic engineers with
DOT that knew what an overpass, and on-
off ramps are. Take Hwy 72 /20 thru the
area without stop lights. Including Town
Creek.
C: I don't know how successful this would be
but some form of public transportation
between the 4 cities. Something I
particularly like is an electric bus like
they use in downtown Chattanooga.

2. Allow a business with a lounge license to
operate in downtown Florence. This would
nulify the stupid 49/51 rule.
3. Offer some kind of business incenitives
for retail businesses to go somewhere
besides Cox Creek. Just how much more can
this over crowded area accomodate? The
obvious place to push with these is
downtown in all 3 cities.
4. Build a marinia at the Sheffield River
Park, with protected launch ramp, and
some rental slips. Also some slips that
can be rented or at least used overnight.
5. Partnet with some local company that
is headquartered IE Andersons) to build
an enertainment arena, like Bancorp South
in Tupelo. The quansit hut ain't too
impressive.

It's getting late, maybe I can think of some more tomorrow, and in the meantime y'all can get a chance to give some feedback on these.

FoshaBen, thanks for keeping us on track.

As far as a metro-government is concerned, I am all for it; however, this has been discussed and bantered about for years without success. The points you brought up are valid and have all been rejected in the past. Maybe someone with a fresh approach can be successful with this. I certainly hope so and do not count it out yet, just the optimist in me I guess.

Yes, jobs first! But, how do we get industry to come here when our town is in such a mess? What company wants to bring their business here when our leadership is living in the dark ages? We need to turn things around and get progressive and energetic. We need to make ourselves more attractive (not pretty KS) to investors. This is a difficult task when there is no money and with our "leadership" making sure they are not going anywhere.

Excellent feedback. I think everyone is on the same page pretty much.

Here's my suggestion. Don't laugh. But we need to find enough people to run for mayor and city council of our local municipalities who can get elected TOGETHER. Similar to the president/vice president running mate situation. We need to find progressive candidates for mayor who can WIN; and they need to have running mates for the various city council districts so that once elections are had, we have a full mayor and council who support change and who will support one another.

This will take SO much work and commitment among those of us who support progress; but together, we can make this happen! Think about how many people think the way we do but who do not even know about a TD forum? I honestly don't think we are that much of a minority -- we just need to vocalize our ideas.

LAWGRL, you are so right and we have been silent for too long!

A successful city starts in the core... which is our downtown area... once it's intact, the rest follows. I've seen it happen myself.

I'd like to suggest a volunteer organization to set up regular meetings to discuss these things. Similar to a PTO meeting of sorts, if you will...

People can comment all day on a forum, but to form an organization of people who actually reside and participate and show up to make themselves heard for the future of the Shoals area... well that takes some initiative. That's 'get off your arse and do something people'.

We can get our ideas together, let the Manhattan investor take a look at them, hopefully get to discuss things with him, and have a concise plan to take to our local officials.

I would be happy to coordinate such events... with enough interest, then we can approach our council. They wouldn't be able to ignore the masses.

What do you think? LAWGRL, others?

I can think of a few local investors, if they would just let their dollars go to the area as a whole and not just "their" city or town. Hmmmm, let's see...a few last names that come to mind are Anderson, Robbins, Love. Those are just a few that jump out there at me.
I too agree that we need some higher paying, better benefit, jobs in this area. My husband, like many other's spouses, travels over 50 miles one way to work and back everyday. With the gas prices, it almost makes it seem better for him to stay here and work for $9 or $10 an hour, but with almost 20 years invested in a job, and the benefits, that is the only thing that keeps him going back.
I would be interested in being in on a meeting like you are talking about. Keep the good ideas coming Shoals area!!!

quote:

Originally posted by MonicaParis:
A successful city starts in the core... which is our downtown area... once it's intact, the rest follows. I've seen it happen myself.

I'd like to suggest a volunteer organization to set up regular meetings to discuss these things. Similar to a PTO meeting of sorts, if you will...

People can comment all day on a forum, but to form an organization of people who actually reside and participate and show up to make themselves heard for the future of the Shoals area... well that takes some initiative. That's 'get off your arse and do something people'.

We can get our ideas together, let the Manhattan investor take a look at them, hopefully get to discuss things with him, and have a concise plan to take to our local officials.

I would be happy to coordinate such events... with enough interest, then we can approach our council. They wouldn't be able to ignore the masses.

What do you think? LAWGRL, others?

That's what it took to save the TVA nature trail from our lord David Bronner.

An organization is exactly what I had in mind, too. I have some media connections and will gladly use them to help promote interest in the group. I could also handle the paperwork if we wanted to set it up as nonprofit organization and make it legal. I would just ask for others to pitch in to help a little with the filing fees.

We need a name. The first one that came to my mind was "Citizens for a Better Shoals" or CBS. Any other suggestions?

I'd gladly offer up the conference room at my law office for the first meeting, with the hopes that by the time we met a second time, the conference room would be way too small.

Actually with the right PR, we should have way too many people to fit in my conference room for the first meeting.

http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20070715/NEWS/707150344/1011

Excellent news. Let's pray that this comes to fruition and that the jobs pay well. And congrats to the leaders who are helping to make this happen.

One place to start with new industry in the shoals is the waterways. Instead of TVA having so much control of the waterfront them or someone should offer up some free property for any industry that is willing to provide high paying jobs for the locals. The hollow on Wilson Lake where Union Carbide had waterfront that is now owned by Wise looks like a great place to put something. Down river on Pickwick there seems to be alot of available property for industrial growth, even around seven mile island. I think some of the things that stand in the way are the old folks that don't want change, realtors that are tied into politics that would rather see the properties developed into residential so they can sell some lots to all ready wealthy retirees, and the environmentalists that don't want to see nature disturbed. What does finally stop any proposed development along the waterfront is all of these folks getting together to hire someone to come in to say that any industrial development would pose too great an impact on the environment. But, there are standards and regulations that control discharge and runoff so why not enforce that and let them come and build? Someone mentioned the Tenn-Tom waterway before. That was built for commercial traffic such as barges as a way to transport goods. What good is it to the shoals if we have no goods to transport? With all the water that flows through Wheeler and Wison dam I'm sure there is probably some industry that could even make use of the excess discharge through some sort of pipeline. Its not all used for power you know.

Yes, I am all for a unified Shoals! The biggest problem I see making that happen is too many folks worried about losing the name of the city they live in. They could keep the names and still unite. Just look at Atlanta or Houston. If you have ever been to either have you been able to tell exactly where the city limits stop off without seeing some other name in there somewhere?

Then again, who am I?

quote:

Originally posted by LAWGRL:

Let's start brainstorming. What would you like to see, specifically, happen?

Okay, here is my idea:

The Tennessee River is incredibly under-utilized in this town. WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL RIVER RUNNING RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF OUR TOWN and no one uses it as the beautiful advantage that it should be.

The Florence Harbor is a good start. We need a nice place for folks to float in from all over the country and enjoy our town. The proposed walkway from the harbor to downtown Florence is a great idea that will help the floaters spend money here but it is not enough.

The current proposal for waterfront development (the "Riverwalk") includes a small amphitheater and walkway stretching from the Marriott to Florence Harbor. Great idea but I imagine it will be used by perhaps 20 people per day. It will be no more important than any other public park in the Shoals. What a waste.

My idea is modeled after the Charleston, SC "slave market" (as it was known in my youth - now it's politically-correctly called "The Market"). The Market is where slaves were brought in from Africa to be sold. It is now a long (3 to 4 city blocks) row of covered shelters (see http://tinyurl.com/2m5wja) that vendors use to hawk art, basket weaving, food, tee shirts, spices and more.

No visit to Charleston is complete without visiting the Market.

Florence Riverwalk needs a "draw" to get people to visit there and foster commerce and further development. My "Shoals Market" is a good start. I envision vendors selling artwork, antiques, trinkets, food and souvenoiers in our little market.

Perhaps we could honor our Indian ancestors by naming this market in honor of their sacrifice since my market would be located very close to where many of them were detained before being shipped to Waterloo and beyond (near Indian Mound). I don't know what that name would be but I'm sure we can think of something. Perhaps a naming contest?

The cost of the market shelters would be fairly minimal but much of the cost of building the Market to our city would be offset by license fees for each vendor. Artists and produce farmers would have a small license fee (we want to encourage them to be there) and perhaps "flea market" type vendors would pay a little more.

Some within the city will be concerned our market would become a little Uncle Charlie's Flea Market. That is not necessarily a bad thing but the "quality" of the vendors could be controlled by the price of the license fees.

That said, I would rally against any kind of restrictive fees and allow the free market to determine what is and is not successful down there.

The market could be situated on either side of the river (Florence or Sheffield near the entrance to Old Rail Road bridge) but one of the coolest locations would be on Patton Island. How cool would that be? It might be a little expensive to develop Patton Island for retail/market business since a bridge that could carry supplies and customers from Florence would have to be built but that ain't mothin' but money.

Once a bustling market is in place, Florence and Sheffield need to develop their properties further by encouraging retail and office development. I envision a long strip of upscale shops, restaurants and bars (YES, BARS!) and businesses along our Riverwalk.

Some good planning will have to take place. Aesthetic beauty is of utmost concern. A hodgepodge of cheap and expensive buildings simply will not do. The planning commission will have to develop a comprehensive plan that will strictly govern what kinds of buildings can be built and how they will appear.

Condominium development must also be included in the plan. I've hiked the proposed walk from the harbor all the way to the Marriott and there is ample room for Condominium development, too.

Florence will have to go to war on TVA to get this property conveyed to us citizens. This war may last for years and millions will die but we citizens must have development access to Florence's waterfront.

Having people actually live amongst the shops and bars will be an incredible boon to developers and yet another "draw" to our Riverwalk.

The bottom line is that a good, intelligently planned, retail-friendly Riverwalk will be an incredible boon to this area. As it is now, it's just another nice city park. Yawn.

I've got lot's of other thoughts on this but that will do for now. I presented this to the previous council long ago but received a great big yawn. If this strikes you as a good idea, take my idea and run with it, PLEASE. Forward this posting to your city council person. Plagiarize it to your heart's content and even call it your own. But let's do it.

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:
That's what it took to save the TVA nature trail from our lord David Bronner.

And got a world-class golf course moved from the middle of the Shoals to way the heck out in Ford City. Yeah, way to go, tree hugger.

I hike that trail regularly and it is used by perhaps 10 people a day. What a waste. A trail could have been re-built just about anywhere.

What we need is a new political group to take this in a new direction. Like Lawgirl says, if enough leaders would have a common goal, then we may be able to do something. Too many leaders are interested in their own districts and not pulling together. A unified government would be good, but as it is, I'm afraid Florence and Muscle Shoals is not going to be willing to put resources in the faltering citys of Tuscumbia and Sheffield.

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:
That's what it took to save the TVA nature trail from our lord David Bronner.

And got a world-class golf course moved from the middle of the Shoals to way the heck out in Ford City. Yeah, way to go, tree hugger.

I hike that trail regularly and it is used by perhaps 10 people a day. What a waste. A trail could have been re-built just about anywhere.

I can tell from this one statement what your politics are. You believe that it is perfectely ok to take land from we the people and give it (as in for free) to private individual(s) for their profit. Only one political phylosophy believes that the good of corporate fat-cats is more important than than the legacy of public parks and land.
I am not in that group. If you want to call me a tree hugger, I wear the label proudly. I will fight to preserve the environment, In the voting booth always, and when necessary, on the streets as I did in this case. End result, we now have both a golf course, and a beautiful nature trail.

A lot of people on these forums have complained about gasoline prices. I have not checked back, but I hope you are not one who has. We will be paying more for our gasoline for years and years to pay the bonds we took out in order to build the Marriott, upgrade the cafe on a stick, and then give (well , for ond dollar a year) both of them, plus the convention center to Bronner. He gets the profits, we got the shaft. Don't get me wrong, I was not against the vision , but I did not want a golf corse for private profit on land that is owned by ME and given away. I also think it was a very bad decision for us to not get any of the profits from the hotel/convention center. only the taxes.

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:
I can tell from this one statement what your politics are. You believe that it is perfectely ok to take land from we the people and give it (as in for free) to private individual(s) for their profit.

There are not a lot of people more "out doorsey" than me. I love trails and public spaces and make much use of them.

However, I believe that TVA owns far too much vast stretches of prime development public land in the Shoals area. If they have their wish, we will never see any sort of development in any of those areas.

If you are talking about taking away Diebert park, I'd raise cain. Take away Rock Pile boat landing and I'd raise cain. Take away any public park that is actually used by the people and I'd raise caine. But the TVA trail isn't used by hardly anyone and a prime trail could have been built elsewhere on the reservation.

We are going to run into the same whackos when Florence's riverfront is developed and it already makes me sick.

Development and green spaces can live in harmony.

If you truly loved the outdoors you would understand that not every square inch of land needs to be developed for human use. Leave some wild spaces! There were bird habitats (and I'm sure other habitats as well) that would have been destroyed if the golf course had been built there.

quote:

Originally posted by OriginalBama:
There is a reason for the workforce being what it is in the Shoals/Florence area. There is a business that thrives on low paying/temp help. As long as they can keep industry out of the area, they can continue to offer these $6/hr jobs to temp workers. You see if good paying jobs came here, they would have to up their pay or lose the temp help they have now. Oh yes a few go fulltime, but just a few. But good post Lawgirl..... thanks.....

You just described the entire Nation. The "once" good companies to work for, that paid a decent wage, with benefits, NOW found out they can hire twice as many people with LESS hourly wages, and LESS hours per week (part timers) and NO benefits... and our Nation is crumbling the entire middle class with this mindset... this has been in the works for a while now, it is just now getting to the forefront of most Americans to SEE....

UNITED we stand, divided we FALL... and we ARE not only falling,... we, as a Nation are teaching our kids how it is okay to be ruthless individuals, or either learn to be poor...

That is just a sas mind-set that I thought we AMERICANs would never have to see... we were suposed to be the BEST... now we rank way down the list of the best..

The Shoals area is just following what Big Business says to follow...

GOOD, REAL Factories, offering full time employment with decent wages and benefits is exactly what we need in this area, the more the merrier!!!

Kindred,

You really need to get away from ths Shoals more, I see homes from $200,000 to $400,000 going up everywhere and selling. No temp jobs pay for those.

Interventor, I get away from the Shoals all the time. What difference does that make? You must be part of the have's and not the have-not's. You really need to stay in the Shoals and look around your own backyard more! There is a lot more to see than $200,000 and $400,000 homes.

Nothing will ever please all the people at the same time. However, I think a bit of improvement and revitalization to the area would be welcome by all.

I like a lot of the ideas I've seen in this thread and many others like it here on these forums. I recently visited the Charleston Area and know exactly what GoFish is referring to there... it was cozy and inviting. It would fit here for sure. I liked it alot when in Charleston the end of June. That's one idea of many..... so much we could consider, but first we must form together in an organized manner... or we can just sit and wait, bicker about it, and nothing will get done until someone else does it.

I'm all for setting up a time and place, spreading the word and see what 'we the people' can do to help our town. Prioritize, then action, we can do it.

Citizens for Improvement and Revitalization of the Shoals, or CIRS.... (pronounced sirs) one suggestion, since CBS is a tv station.

Again, homes are an indicator of economic prosperity. AS, are the strip malls, banks and other developments that provide the dwellers goods and services. Unemployment rates in those areas are 1 to 1.5 percent. And, homes are zoned for mixed development, so lower income persons can find decent housing, as well.

Charleston, is one of my favorite cities. I have visited since it was an economically depressed area to its now more prosperous times. In other postings, I mentioned it as an example of a city that could bring itself back and used a mixed economy of tourism, industry, and services providers to achieve that success.

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:
I can tell from this one statement what your politics are. You believe that it is perfectely ok to take land from we the people and give it (as in for free) to private individual(s) for their profit.

There are not a lot of people more "out doorsey" than me. I love trails and public spaces and make much use of them.

However, I believe that TVA owns far too much vast stretches of prime development public land in the Shoals area. If they have their wish, we will never see any sort of development in any of those areas.

If you are talking about taking away Diebert park, I'd raise cain. Take away Rock Pile boat landing and I'd raise cain. Take away any public park that is actually used by the people and I'd raise caine. But the TVA trail isn't used by hardly anyone and a prime trail could have been built elsewhere on the reservation.

We are going to run into the same whackos when Florence's riverfront is developed and it already makes me sick.

Development and green spaces can live in harmony.

Now on the Trail, I beg to differ... we go there a few times a week and there is no lax in people walking it, sometimes ya cannot even find a parking place

Besides, WHO is going to foreclose on what TVA owns?????? They are the government for goodness sake, they can and have owned the Tennessee River and surrounding properties for more years than most of us are old!!!

Reading the TVA website, they created the Tennessee River, so why SHOULDN'T they own it?

quote:

Originally posted by MarianLibrarian:
If you truly loved the outdoors you would understand that not every square inch of land needs to be developed for human use. Leave some wild spaces! There were bird habitats (and I'm sure other habitats as well) that would have been destroyed if the golf course had been built there.

AMEN to this!!!! Leave SOME of it wild and open, if not for us, then for our future generations!!!

When all the trees are gone, all the land is developed, what are we going to be left with??? That would be a most interesting discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by interventor:
Kindred,

You really need to get away from ths Shoals more, I see homes from $200,000 to $400,000 going up everywhere and selling. No temp jobs pay for those.

You don't know how often I do get out of the Shoals, or just how many places I have LIVED in my lifetime... I guess you don't remember me saying my Dad was Military as well as I married Military... so yes, I HAVE been out of the Shoals so much it is unreal.. and for now, I LIKE just being able to stay put for a month at a time.... business takes me away sometimes too.

I also used to spend all my summers, growing up in Virginia, as my grandparents lived there. I have a cousin who lives in Rhode Island, and she is totally amazed EVERY TIME she comes down here and sees a nice modest sized 3 bedroom brick home going at 80,000 ... she said if she could literally MOVE houses, she could sell every one of them in our area up there where she is a real estate agent!!!! She said that the modest homes we have here would sell for 250K up there... so I think we are talking COST OF LIVING prices, not actual living conditions.

Kindred,

Again, by obfuscation or failure to understand, you did not get to the point. You actually reinforced my statement that much of the country in not in the economic stagnation you seem to believe its in.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Reading the TVA website, they created the Tennessee River, so why SHOULDN'T they own it?"

LOL! good joke. TVA does seem to think they built the river. Some of the dams, like Wilson, were inherited from past projects. TVA has done a magnificent job of developing the southern riverine resources, obviously they didn't make the river.

quote:

Originally posted by interventor:
Kindred,

Again, by obfuscation or failure to understand, you did not get to the point. You actually reinforced my statement that much of the country in not in the economic stagnation you seem to believe its in.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Reading the TVA website, they created the Tennessee River, so why SHOULDN'T they own it?"

LOL! good joke. TVA does seem to think they built the river. Some of the dams, like Wilson, were inherited from past projects. TVA has done a magnificent job of developing the southern riverine resources, obviously they didn't make the river.

Wilson was ceeded to TVA, and I believe the only thing TVA got from tax dollars for the river. As far as I know, Wilson lake is the only lake in the TVA system where anyone can own lake front property that touches the water.
On most other lakes, TVA owns the land that touches the water back to a point that would allow a given lake to rise (I believe, but not sure) 12 feet. This is considered flood plane.

As far as "development" along the river front, I consider the TVA trail area completely developed. I consider most of the banks of the river "developed" (by God).
I remember Pickwick in the Bear Creek to Tenn state line area back in the old days. Now there are "cabins" everywhere. If that is development, it sure lacks the beauty I used to enjoy.
If we allow the entire area to be "developed" by industry, or private homes, or whatever, then we will ultimately loose the beauty of the river, and those of us who are not fortunate enough to be able to afford "lake front property" will be excluded from it's use.

quote:

Originally posted by interventor:
Kindred,

Again, by obfuscation or failure to understand, you did not get to the point. You actually reinforced my statement that much of the country in not in the economic stagnation you seem to believe its in.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Reading the TVA website, they created the Tennessee River, so why SHOULDN'T they own it?"

LOL! good joke. TVA does seem to think they built the river. Some of the dams, like Wilson, were inherited from past projects. TVA has done a magnificent job of developing the southern riverine resources, obviously they didn't make the river.

When your insults start, I usually stop... I think YOU are the one trying to confuse the issues here... You don't even LIVE in the Shoals, so how in the world can you tell us how to improve on what is OURS???

And TVA DID build WILSON... Henry Ford HAD a design, but no one would go for it, so TVA took his idea and ran with it... Read HISTORY, it is very important. Especially to the people who actually LIVE here and PAYS THEIR TAXES here, and WORKS here... otherwise, no one knows exactly what is going on, except by reading an online newspaper, which doesn't even tell all the stories that is in the printed one....

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:

quote:

Originally posted by interventor:
Kindred,

Again, by obfuscation or failure to understand, you did not get to the point. You actually reinforced my statement that much of the country in not in the economic stagnation you seem to believe its in.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Reading the TVA website, they created the Tennessee River, so why SHOULDN'T they own it?"

LOL! good joke. TVA does seem to think they built the river. Some of the dams, like Wilson, were inherited from past projects. TVA has done a magnificent job of developing the southern riverine resources, obviously they didn't make the river.

Wilson was ceeded to TVA, and I believe the only thing TVA got from tax dollars for the river. As far as I know, Wilson lake is the only lake in the TVA system where anyone can own lake front property that touches the water.
On most other lakes, TVA owns the land that touches the water back to a point that would allow a given lake to rise (I believe, but not sure) 12 feet. This is considered flood plane.

As far as "development" along the river front, I consider the TVA trail area completely developed. I consider most of the banks of the river "developed" (by God).
I remember Pickwick in the Bear Creek to Tenn state line area back in the old days. Now there are "cabins" everywhere. If that is development, it sure lacks the beauty I used to enjoy.
If we allow the entire area to be "developed" by industry, or private homes, or whatever, then we will ultimately loose the beauty of the river, and those of us who are not fortunate enough to be able to afford "lake front property" will be excluded from it's use.

Love your signature!!!

quote:

Originally posted by vick13:
Sometimes you have to wonder if those powers that be don't enjoy being big fish in a small pond.

That is exactly some of the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:
I can tell from this one statement what your politics are. You believe that it is perfectely ok to take land from we the people and give it (as in for free) to private individual(s) for their profit.

There are not a lot of people more "out doorsey" than me. I love trails and public spaces and make much use of them.

However, I believe that TVA owns far too much vast stretches of prime development public land in the Shoals area. If they have their wish, we will never see any sort of development in any of those areas.

If you are talking about taking away Diebert park, I'd raise cain. Take away Rock Pile boat landing and I'd raise cain. Take away any public park that is actually used by the people and I'd raise caine. But the TVA trail isn't used by hardly anyone and a prime trail could have been built elsewhere on the reservation.

We are going to run into the same whackos when Florence's riverfront is developed and it already makes me sick.

Development and green spaces can live in harmony.

My goodness GoFish, I agree with you again.

quote:

Originally posted by outspokenjerk:

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:
I can tell from this one statement what your politics are. You believe that it is perfectely ok to take land from we the people and give it (as in for free) to private individual(s) for their profit.

There are not a lot of people more "out doorsey" than me. I love trails and public spaces and make much use of them.

However, I believe that TVA owns far too much vast stretches of prime development public land in the Shoals area. If they have their wish, we will never see any sort of development in any of those areas.

If you are talking about taking away Diebert park, I'd raise cain. Take away Rock Pile boat landing and I'd raise cain. Take away any public park that is actually used by the people and I'd raise caine. But the TVA trail isn't used by hardly anyone and a prime trail could have been built elsewhere on the reservation.

We are going to run into the same whackos when Florence's riverfront is developed and it already makes me sick.

Development and green spaces can live in harmony.

My goodness GoFish, I agree with you again.

By the way, I have no problem with the river-front trail development.
My problem was taking public land, and giving it to a private company or individual for their profit.
I opposed this here, but I would also oppose it if it were happening in Idaho, Fla, Wyoming, or anywhere.
If taken to the extreme, giving away public land for the financial gain of a few, will eventually ammount to "We the people" never having any place to go for recreation that does not cost much money goint to the fat-cat pockets.
When this RTJ project was going on, I was using the trail daily (arthritis in my left foot has caused me to slow down on that some), but it is used by my family. I can pretty much assure you I know way more than 10 people who use those trails on a regular basis. In addition, there are a lot of people who use the CCC pavillion area, which is a very beautiful place, but would have been a golf green had Bronner had his way. This area is also part of the North Alabama Birding trail. I don't know how it fares here, but believe it or not, I read an article where more people spend more money bird watching than they spend on golf. Read that in a bird watching mag.
Keep public land for future generations to enjoy, not for the greed of a few money grubbing people.

I also like the idea of a riverwalk of some sort. I don't see why the city couldn't take on that project and keep it out of the hands of a private investor. And no, I don't see it happening with the current council in place. That's why we need progressive candidates next year and the support of progressive voters.

The investor I spoke with is more interested in purchasing existing buildings and renovating them. There is also a great interest (one which I share) in purchasing property on Wilson Lake to develop a nice restaurant/bar on the Colbert County side (Lauderdale Co. is dry). A fine dining side and also a casual side -- something for everyone (think Bottega in Birmingham), with boat slips so people can access it by boat or by land.

quote:

Originally posted by outspokenjerk:

quote:

Originally posted by vick13:
Sometimes you have to wonder if those powers that be don't enjoy being big fish in a small pond.

That is exactly some of the problem.

Indeed it is. Until we get people into office who sincerely care about this area and the people of this area above their own selfish desires and the desires of their cronies, we will not see major progress. That is why I think it is SO incredibly important to organize a group of people who may not necessarily agree on the HOW, but agree that change and growth is a must.

There is strength in numbers, and we here represent only a tiny minority of those in the Shoals who share our concerns and goals. I talk to them in restaurants, bars, and the courthouse regularly. We are not alone in this by any means.

quote:

Originally posted by LAWGRL:
I also like the idea of a riverwalk of some sort. I don't see why the city couldn't take on that project and keep it out of the hands of a private investor. And no, I don't see it happening with the current council in place. That's why we need progressive candidates next year and the support of progressive voters.

The investor I spoke with is more interested in purchasing existing buildings and renovating them. There is also a great interest (one which I share) in purchasing property on Wilson Lake to develop a nice restaurant/bar on the Colbert County side (Lauderdale Co. is dry). A fine dining side and also a casual side -- something for everyone (think Bottega in Birmingham), with boat slips so people can access it by boat or by land.

We got a lot of places around here to picnic by the river, or just sit and meditate by it... you should check out the river park in Sheffield, I love going there, it is much more serene and calm compared to McFarland...

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:

quote:

Originally posted by LAWGRL:
I also like the idea of a riverwalk of some sort. I don't see why the city couldn't take on that project and keep it out of the hands of a private investor. And no, I don't see it happening with the current council in place. That's why we need progressive candidates next year and the support of progressive voters.

The investor I spoke with is more interested in purchasing existing buildings and renovating them. There is also a great interest (one which I share) in purchasing property on Wilson Lake to develop a nice restaurant/bar on the Colbert County side (Lauderdale Co. is dry). A fine dining side and also a casual side -- something for everyone (think Bottega in Birmingham), with boat slips so people can access it by boat or by land.

We got a lot of places around here to picnic by the river, or just sit and meditate by it... you should check out the river park in Sheffield, I love going there, it is much more serene and calm compared to McFarland...

I go to the park in Sheffield too! Love to watch the sunsets there.
I have made several suggestions that that park would be a fine place for a marina with a resturant, the whole nine yards. Not only have I suggested that on these forums, but also to the (past) mayor or Sheffield. Sof far, no alcohol on Sun, but other than that, a great place for such as you suggested Lawgirl.
EVERYTHING DOSN'T HAVE TO BE IN FLORENCE.

When I moved to the area, I had always considered it more like one big town with 3 cities - hence- the Tri cities. (Muscle Shoals grew up after I left the area)
I was supprised to find when I came back that most people around here did not look at it in the same way. They were all about Sheffield, Florence, Tuscumbia, Muscle Shoals , and viewed each as a distinct place all opposed to the others.
I think we would be better served if we considered the area as 1 city with "burroughs" not 4 distinct places.
PS: Hey Lawgirl, another place would be excellent for that resturant/marina is Veterens Park. They are looking for something to put there, and I think that would be a helluva lot better than a Bass Pro Shop.

Kindred,

"And TVA DID build WILSON... Henry Ford HAD a design, but no one would go for it, so TVA took his idea and ran with it... Read HISTORY, it is very important."
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I do read history and, yes, it is important for it to be correct. Construction of Wilson Dam was started in 1918 and completed in 1924 to provide power to a munitions plant for WWI. With the ending of the war, the Corps of Engineers built and ran the dam. Henry Ford offered to buy the dam and surrounding site for a nitrates plant. TVA was not founded until 1933. The dam was transferred to TVA (Corps of Engineers still runs the locks).

excelman,

There were marinas in Sheffield, as a kid, my father, brother and I would buy bait and take out the boat (docked at the marina) for a day of fishing. A storm took out the marina and for years, it was not replaced. A second marina did not make it for economic reasons. The Florence marina is better protected from storms than the Sheffield site, ufortunately, and can berth more and larger boats.

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:
By the way, I have no problem with the river-front trail development.
My problem was taking public land, and giving it to a private company or individual for their profit.

Well, hey, you got your wish. the beautiful trail meanders though some beautiful woods and only part of it is slightly radioactive. It shall forever remain that way for people like you to enjoy it.

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:

quote:

Originally posted by LAWGRL:
I also like the idea of a riverwalk of some sort. I don't see why the city couldn't take on that project and keep it out of the hands of a private investor. And no, I don't see it happening with the current council in place. That's why we need progressive candidates next year and the support of progressive voters.

The investor I spoke with is more interested in purchasing existing buildings and renovating them. There is also a great interest (one which I share) in purchasing property on Wilson Lake to develop a nice restaurant/bar on the Colbert County side (Lauderdale Co. is dry). A fine dining side and also a casual side -- something for everyone (think Bottega in Birmingham), with boat slips so people can access it by boat or by land.

We got a lot of places around here to picnic by the river, or just sit and meditate by it... you should check out the river park in Sheffield, I love going there, it is much more serene and calm compared to McFarland...

I go to the park in Sheffield too! Love to watch the sunsets there.
I have made several suggestions that that park would be a fine place for a marina with a resturant, the whole nine yards. Not only have I suggested that on these forums, but also to the (past) mayor or Sheffield. Sof far, no alcohol on Sun, but other than that, a great place for such as you suggested Lawgirl.
EVERYTHING DOSN'T HAVE TO BE IN FLORENCE.

When I moved to the area, I had always considered it more like one big town with 3 cities - hence- the Tri cities. (Muscle Shoals grew up after I left the area)
I was supprised to find when I came back that most people around here did not look at it in the same way. They were all about Sheffield, Florence, Tuscumbia, Muscle Shoals , and viewed each as a distinct place all opposed to the others.
I think we would be better served if we considered the area as 1 city with "burroughs" not 4 distinct places.
PS: Hey Lawgirl, another place would be excellent for that resturant/marina is Veterens Park. They are looking for something to put there, and I think that would be a helluva lot better than a Bass Pro Shop.

Yes, I guess it would be a good place for a nice restuarant, .... much better than the Point was... but I almost would hate to see that happen, because, like you, I love the 'serenity' of just sitting there, watching the water flow, the boats go, and the sun rise, or set... depending on when I am there...

Plus, I think they still have a flooding problem there too, at certain times, and that wouldn't go over at all with a business located there... just my take.

quote:

Originally posted by interventor:
excelman,

There were marinas in Sheffield, as a kid, my father, brother and I would buy bait and take out the boat (docked at the marina) for a day of fishing. A storm took out the marina and for years, it was not replaced. A second marina did not make it for economic reasons. The Florence marina is better protected from storms than the Sheffield site, ufortunately, and can berth more and larger boats.

If Sheffield spent as much money on a Marina as Florence did for theirs, it would be far better than the one in Florence... It is very nice on the Sheffield side... VERY nice... But as far as Marina's go, I prefer Shoal Creek to McFarland any day of the week.

I think it would be cool if Florence made a senic river view trolly from the new hotel to downtown (also an hourly stop at UNA). Block of Court St. Like they do Beale in Memphis after hours. Then downtown would be like Branson is to country Music, but offer some of our past recorders incentives to open a venue here. Would be like the Branson Ms. of classic R&B and rock. Can you imagine the draw that clubs that regularly headlines these artists every weekend would be?

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
And TVA DID build WILSON... Henry Ford HAD a design, but no one would go for it, so TVA took his idea and ran with it... Read HISTORY, it is very important.

KS, you are awful sweet but gosh you . . . Never mind.

Here's how it all got here:

Tennessee River Existed for a few million years but it flooded a lot.

The army CORPS OF ENGINEERS built the dam (and named the lake after Woodrow Wilson), built some dams and controlled the flooding and generated electricity for the area. TVA was formed and took possession of the dam 20 years after it was constructed.

Wartime came and some plants were needed to manufacture nitrates for bombs.

War ended and TVA had lot's of facilities but no use for them.

Henry Ford seriously considered building the "Detroit of the South" in what is now Muscle Shoals. The federal government was going to, in effect, give wilson **** to Henry Ford for electricity for his plant (can you believe that jerk, Ford, wanted us to give up PUBLIC LAND for PRIVATE INDUSTRY? Who would ever be for that?)

Some senator from another state raised cain and the project fell through.

So, no, TVA did not create the Tennessee river. TVA DIDN'T create Wilson lake. The Corp of engineers did. TVA now owns it.

Now you know the rest . . . . of the story.

quote:

Originally posted by MentalFloss:
I think it would be cool if Florence made a senic river view trolly from the new hotel to downtown (also an hourly stop at UNA). Block of Court St. Like they do Beale in Memphis after hours. Then downtown would be like Branson is to country Music, but offer some of our past recorders incentives to open a venue here. Would be like the Branson Ms. of classic R&B and rock. Can you imagine the draw that clubs that regularly headlines these artists every weekend would be?

Now THAT is a GREAT idea!!!

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
And TVA DID build WILSON... Henry Ford HAD a design, but no one would go for it, so TVA took his idea and ran with it... Read HISTORY, it is very important.

KS, you are awful sweet but gosh you . . . Never mind.

Here's how it all got here:

Tennessee River Existed for a few million years but it flooded a lot.

The army CORPS OF ENGINEERS built the dam (and named the lake after Woodrow Wilson), built some dams and controlled the flooding and generated electricity for the area. TVA was formed and took possession of the dam 20 years after it was constructed.

Wartime came and some plants were needed to manufacture nitrates for bombs.

War ended and TVA had lot's of facilities but no use for them.

Henry Ford seriously considered building the "Detroit of the South" in what is now Muscle Shoals. The federal government was going to, in effect, give wilson **** to Henry Ford for electricity for his plant (can you believe that jerk, Ford, wanted us to give up PUBLIC LAND for PRIVATE INDUSTRY? Who would ever be for that?)

Some senator from another state raised cain and the project fell through.

So, no, TVA did not create the Tennessee river. TVA DIDN'T create Wilson lake. The Corp of engineers did. TVA now owns it.

Now you know the rest . . . . of the story.

GoFish... The Tennessee River DID exist for many many many years BEFORE TVA... BUT here is the kicker... TVA re-routed it to make the drought ridden farmers and the poorest of poor people have little things, like running water, electricity, and whatever...

And Henry did NOT build here because TVA wouldn't give him the free ride he wanted... he wanted land, he wanted free electricity... now we get into HOW the FAT CAT stays fat... just as said in other posts... The RICH want things for FREE, while the poor can work 24/7 and always end up on the end of the Rich man's skewer.... you just gave the perfect example. If that were the Norm, then YOU, a business owner shouldn't have to pay a dime for your building, nor should you get any electricity or water bill... because you OWN a business...

TVA DID create the Tennessee River as we know it NOW... with all the Dams they built from South Holstam all the way down to Wilson back up to Pickwick and ending virtually at Kentucky Dam...

Most of the Dams, and Steam plants for that matter was named after SOMEONE... I will have to go back to their archives, I closed out of it for this reply.... but it is all there, ... even HOW the river WAS routed to the WAY it IS routed today.... TVA did that... and if not for TVA, we would all be dirt farmers... still, or else Northerners, lol.

Every year I visit Jacksonville, Florida and every year we go to the river walk and have a blast! Their city is much larger than ours, but why can't we have a scaled down version? They have restaurants, bars, entertainment complexes, outside stages and great vendors.

Every time we go there is a dance company or musical group performing and making the scene more lively. It would be a perfect place for a farmer's market and a special place for local artists to sell their art. I like this suggestion more than any other I've seen so far.

quote:

Originally posted by bluesman *:
wrong site on the first one, sorry, http://www.alamhof.org/concertpamtillis

As much as I would love to see Pam Tillis, I am a devoted girlfriend and will be watching my boyfriend's band that night. And what's with Ronnie McDowell? Can you say elective surgery???

quote:

Originally posted by LAWGRL:
I also like the idea of a riverwalk of some sort. I don't see why the city couldn't take on that project and keep it out of the hands of a private investor. And no, I don't see it happening with the current council in place. That's why we need progressive candidates next year and the support of progressive voters.

The investor I spoke with is more interested in purchasing existing buildings and renovating them. There is also a great interest (one which I share) in purchasing property on Wilson Lake to develop a nice restaurant/bar on the Colbert County side (Lauderdale Co. is dry). A fine dining side and also a casual side -- something for everyone (think Bottega in Birmingham), with boat slips so people can access it by boat or by land.

I am all for both of these ideas, however, I know I probably speak for all on this board when I say that I would also like for the historical integrity of the buidings and the downtown area be preserved. That's one thing that disturbs me deeply about The Shoals. There are many historical sites that sit vacant and are falling in on themselves, because the leaders/citizens do not take the intiative to save them (Think Sweetwater plantation, Forks of Cypress ruins, John Coffee's plantation Hickory Hill, etc.). When I drive around Brentwood, TN, it's like going back in time, seeing the beautiful antebellum homes that have been preserved. Has anyone ever been to downtown Franklin, TN? That's how I would like to see downtown Florence.....I know it could happen. And I know you all will say that it can happen in Franklin, because of all the money in Franklin, etc....believe me...the types of businesses that are in downtown Franklin, TN can thrive in downtown Florence as well. I would be happy to join any group of "Concerned Citizens." Please, let's get this started......

quote:

Originally posted by johnhaeger:

I am all for both of these ideas, however, I know I probably speak for all on this board when I say that I would also like for the historical integrity of the buidings and the downtown area be preserved. That's one thing that disturbs me deeply about The Shoals. There are many historical sites that sit vacant and are falling in on themselves, because the leaders/citizens do not take the intiative to save them (Think Sweetwater plantation, Forks of Cypress ruins, John Coffee's plantation Hickory Hill, etc.). When I drive around Brentwood, TN, it's like going back in time, seeing the beautiful antebellum homes that have been preserved. Has anyone ever been to downtown Franklin, TN? That's how I would like to see downtown Florence.....I know it could happen. And I know you all will say that it can happen in Franklin, because of all the money in Franklin, etc....believe me...the types of businesses that are in downtown Franklin, TN can thrive in downtown Florence as well. I would be happy to join any group of "Concerned Citizens." Please, let's get this started......

I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I think that would be a goal of this particular investor as well. And I LOVE downtown Franklin, Tennessee. The housing in Franklin wasn't always through the roof, either. That is a booming city now.

quote:

Originally posted by LAWGRL:
http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20070715/NEWS/707150344/1011

Excellent news. Let's pray that this comes to fruition and that the jobs pay well. And congrats to the leaders who are helping to make this happen.

Who's big idea was it to destroy the footing for the old railroad bringe on the Florence side?? They could be used today as transportation infrastructure.

The Florence marina is protected from storm and rushing flood waters, Sheffield riverside is not. Add, the problem with parking.

quote:

Who's big idea was it to destroy the footing for the old railroad bringe on the Florence side?? They could be used today as transportation infrastructure.

What type of transportation infrastructure? A railroad line from Chuck E Cheese to Ricatoni's? That rail bridge was long dead when I was a kid. Be thankful the walking bridge modifications are there. It's surprising that worked out as well as it did.

Area improvements

1. The towns need to work together instead of trying to shoot each other in the foot. This may include consolidating the governments into one entity.

2. Work on getting resources focused on the Cherokee area since that is the likely area the Memphis to Atlanta highway will take (if this is not eclipsed by Corridor X) Since its pretty impossible to make a stop free way to I65 make one from Florence to Cherokee to meet up with the highway to make a bypass on both sides of the area.

3. Stop the rumor mill culture immediately. Look at whats common with restaurants right now. you don't go to place because your friend told you so and so had a bad meal. Or so and so is racist or they are not as good as they used to be an on and on... People talk and they know how people can be around here. Shoot to be like Huntsville and be known as a place with culture, not a place where people will turn on you in a minute like the area is starting to be known as.

Sheffield inprovements.

1. Get a overpass built for the train tracks by any means necessary. Since Muscle Shoals does not have a proper downtown district turn Downtown into a older entertainment district. It doesn't have to be bars and clubs (although they can exist if its more for a 25+ crowd) but work to get theater, higher end restaurants and things that would attract the older crowd.

2. Work on getting bigger industry by exploiting the train tracks.


Florence Improvements

1. Continue turning east Florence into a entertainment district except aim it more towards the college crowd since the older crowd will go to Sheffield.

2. Make Downtown more of a art like district. I'm not talking about art shops everywhere, but coffee shops, bookstores, dress shops etc.

3. Long term plans: Develop the other side of Cox Creek, maybe with a bigger mall, but only if the area starts to grow again. Regardless that part of town should be grown more.


Muscle Shoals Improvements

1. Actually for the most part they are doing it right. Exploit the golf course. If it takes off and actually brings in affluent retirees attract stores that appeal to them, and go after business professionals.

Tuscumbia Improvements

1. Exploit the family point that they have gained and work on attracting industry to build on 72

quote:

Originally posted by ryokurin:
Area improvements

1. The towns need to work together instead of trying to shoot each other in the foot. This may include consolidating the governments into one entity.

2. Work on getting resources focused on the Cherokee area since that is the likely area the Memphis to Atlanta highway will take (if this is not eclipsed by Corridor X) Since its pretty impossible to make a stop free way to I65 make one from Florence to Cherokee to meet up with the highway to make a bypass on both sides of the area.

3. Stop the rumor mill culture immediately. Look at whats common with restaurants right now. you don't go to place because your friend told you so and so had a bad meal. Or so and so is racist or they are not as good as they used to be an on and on... People talk and they know how people can be around here. Shoot to be like Huntsville and be known as a place with culture, not a place where people will turn on you in a minute like the area is starting to be known as.

Sheffield inprovements.

1. Get a overpass built for the train tracks by any means necessary. Since Muscle Shoals does not have a proper downtown district turn Downtown into a older entertainment district. It doesn't have to be bars and clubs (although they can exist if its more for a 25+ crowd) but work to get theater, higher end restaurants and things that would attract the older crowd.

2. Work on getting bigger industry by exploiting the train tracks.


Florence Improvements

1. Continue turning east Florence into a entertainment district except aim it more towards the college crowd since the older crowd will go to Sheffield.

2. Make Downtown more of a art like district. I'm not talking about art shops everywhere, but coffee shops, bookstores, dress shops etc.

3. Long term plans: Develop the other side of Cox Creek, maybe with a bigger mall, but only if the area starts to grow again. Regardless that part of town should be grown more.


Muscle Shoals Improvements

1. Actually for the most part they are doing it right. Exploit the golf course. If it takes off and actually brings in affluent retirees attract stores that appeal to them, and go after business professionals.

Tuscumbia Improvements

1. Exploit the family point that they have gained and work on attracting industry to build on 72

Thank you for your well-thought out ideas. I think you have some good ones.

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
And TVA DID build WILSON... Henry Ford HAD a design, but no one would go for it, so TVA took his idea and ran with it... Read HISTORY, it is very important.

KS, you are awful sweet but gosh you . . . Never mind.

Here's how it all got here:

Tennessee River Existed for a few million years but it flooded a lot.

The army CORPS OF ENGINEERS built the dam (and named the lake after Woodrow Wilson), built some dams and controlled the flooding and generated electricity for the area. TVA was formed and took possession of the dam 20 years after it was constructed.

Wartime came and some plants were needed to manufacture nitrates for bombs.

War ended and TVA had lot's of facilities but no use for them.

Henry Ford seriously considered building the "Detroit of the South" in what is now Muscle Shoals. The federal government was going to, in effect, give wilson **** to Henry Ford for electricity for his plant (can you believe that jerk, Ford, wanted us to give up PUBLIC LAND for PRIVATE INDUSTRY? Who would ever be for that?)

Some senator from another state raised cain and the project fell through.

So, no, TVA did not create the Tennessee river. TVA DIDN'T create Wilson lake. The Corp of engineers did. TVA now owns it.

Now you know the rest . . . . of the story.

GoFish... The Tennessee River DID exist for many many many years BEFORE TVA... BUT here is the kicker... TVA re-routed it to make the drought ridden farmers and the poorest of poor people have little things, like running water, electricity, and whatever...

And Henry did NOT build here because TVA wouldn't give him the free ride he wanted... he wanted land, he wanted free electricity... now we get into HOW the FAT CAT stays fat... just as said in other posts... The RICH want things for FREE, while the poor can work 24/7 and always end up on the end of the Rich man's skewer.... you just gave the perfect example. If that were the Norm, then YOU, a business owner shouldn't have to pay a dime for your building, nor should you get any electricity or water bill... because you OWN a business...

TVA DID create the Tennessee River as we know it NOW... with all the Dams they built from South Holstam all the way down to Wilson back up to Pickwick and ending virtually at Kentucky Dam...

Most of the Dams, and Steam plants for that matter was named after SOMEONE... I will have to go back to their archives, I closed out of it for this reply.... but it is all there, ... even HOW the river WAS routed to the WAY it IS routed today.... TVA did that... and if not for TVA, we would all be dirt farmers... still, or else Northerners, lol.

Kindred, you know I love ya girl, but Wilson Dam was built during WW1 to provide power for the nitrite munitions plants here. Part of the reason it was put where it was , was to forever cover the shoals which prevented boat traffic any futher up river.
In 1921 Congress put the entire facilities up for sale. Henry Ford bid $5million for the properties that had cost $130 million to build. Because Congress had intended that Muscle Shoals would produce fertilizers during pecetime, the purchase bids came before the Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry headed by Senator George Norris (R) of Nebraska. Norris said that if Ford's low bid were accepted, it would amount to "the greatest gift ever bestowed upon mortal man since salvation was made free to the human race."

In 1929 the Great Depression .

FDR was elected president in 1933.

Senator Norris had bought into the idea of a man named Gifford Pinchot, who was the chief forester under President Theodore Roosevelt. He was the first prominant conservationist to recognize the inherent balance in nature. He proposed the concept that "A river is a unit from it's source to the sea",and should be developed for full use of water for all purposes. On his 7th attempt to get someone to listen to him , Norris found FDR to be receptive to his idea which fit into his own idea of a New Deal. As a result , TVA was born.

So, TVA did change the river , especilly the part covered by Wilson lake, but TVA did not even exist when Henry Ford tried to buy Wilson Dam, therefore, TVA could not have objected to him getting any land.

This information was somewhat plagerized and paraphrased from a book entitled "A History Of The TENNESSEE VALLEY AUTHORITY" Published 1983 by Tennessee Valley Authority.
(it has a lot of pictures)

so, now we know the rest of the rest of the story.

And meanwhile back at the discussion at hand...
When may we have this mtg.? I have always liked the idea of a riverwalk, but had never considered the trolly idea--very feasible.

As for downtown, I welcome the private investor, but after the Jimmy Neese debacle, will the city be amenable to helping anyone? We need, as I stated in a previous post, continuity in local govt., and lawgrl's plan for an articulated ticket is a step toward that.

I didn't quite get why more mature citizens would prefer Sheffield. Fill me in...

quote:

Originally posted by FirenzeVeritas:
And meanwhile back at the discussion at hand...
When may we have this mtg.? I have always liked the idea of a riverwalk, but had never considered the trolly idea--very feasible.

As for downtown, I welcome the private investor, but after the Jimmy Neese debacle, will the city be amenable to helping anyone? We need, as I stated in a previous post, continuity in local govt., and lawgrl's plan for an articulated ticket is a step toward that.

I didn't quite get why more mature citizens would prefer Sheffield. Fill me in...

I assume that evenings are better for most people to meet? We can meet at my law office, or we can find a more public venue if people prefer. As for the Jimmy Neese fiasco, I think the difference here is that these investors wouldn't need any financial help from the City.

How many people would be willing to meet to discuss changes we would like to see? Please indicate your interest here so we will know exactly how serious everyone is! Thanks.

I assume that evenings are better for most people to meet? We can meet at my law office, or we can find a more public venue if people prefer. As for the Jimmy Neese fiasco, I think the difference here is that these investors wouldn't need any financial help from the City.

How many people would be willing to meet to discuss changes we would like to see? Please indicate your interest here so we will know exactly how serious everyone is! Thanks. [/QUOTE]



Interested. Even if I have to drive down from Nashville.

Count me in...

I look forward to meeting you, John & Bamagurl.

I'll see how many people reply and get an idea of a headcount; then we can decide on a definite place and time. I'll set it far enough out so that those who want to come from out of town can make advance arrangements.

I am interested!

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:
I am interested!

Me too!

Normally, I just sit back and read! But I have thoroughly enjoyed this topic. Everyone has great ideas. I am a life long Shoals resident, and have always wondered why we did not play up more of our musical past. Why hasn't Sheffield/ Florence and Tuscumbia played up their downtown areas. We need to push our historical downtown. Have bars, pubs, and restaurants that will be conducive to live bands, but keep the integrity of the buildings.

We are a college town, yet most of our college students go to other cities for their downtown with live music, good food and fun atmosphere.

I have always thought Sheffield downtown would be great place to incorporate these ideas. Especially now with all of their money woes. Why worry about financing another walking trail when your tax base doesn't even allow you to put money into your schools!!

I am getting excited and looking forward to meeting everyone and hearing more great ideas! Please encourage others who you know feel the same way you do, but who may not come here to read, to attend and voice their opinions.

I am so proud of you guys. You're actually doing something about all this. Good for you! I wish I could be at the meeting to just watch you go!

quote:

Originally posted by vick13:
I am so proud of you guys. You're actually doing something about all this. Good for you! I wish I could be at the meeting to just watch you go!

What did I overlook, why can't you be there?

I may or not be able to attend depending on what week it happens as I am home every 5th week.(I weak every 5th too)

I'm sorry but I have to post this url. I was looking around om the City of Florence's website and this is what I found as their "strategic plan": http://www.florenceal.org/City_Resources/Strategic_Plan/index.html

explains so much

LMAO! Let's just take their blank slate and start scribbling.

I'm definitely interested!

I'll adjust my schedule as necessary to make this meeting once I get a definite time and place...

I wonder how our strategic plan will compare with the city's? LOL!

I would like to see everyone get on the same page in our cities and counties. Seems like we get a lot of money appropriated for studies, etc., but nothing ever comes of it. I'm sure if everyone worked towards a common goal instead of working in several different directions.

I would like to attend this meeting, count me in.

Great topic. I have had many of these same ideas and many discussions/*****fests with whomever would listen.

There are so many examples of other cities that have capitalized on their resources to attract people and business. People are starting to move here from all over, but it may be in spite of anything that is being done rather than because of it. One big draw is our cost of living, which is also one of the factors that has kept me here.

It still all comes back to jobs in one way or another. We have to have the jobs that will attract more people to the area, and more importantly, keep us from losing all of our children to the cities. I have 4 and none of them live here.

We can build all of the cute shops, music venues and ethnic restaurants, but you have to have the numbers that will support them. Look at the places that have opened and closed over the years- some were exactly the types of businesses that we are talking about here. But unless they have the financial support, they cannot survive. We are still an area where the majority is very content to shop at WalMart, eat at Olive Garden or whatever the newest chain is in town, and stay home and watch t.v. rather than go outside. Right now, I am afraid that the market supports exactly what we have. So, we have to recruit a different group that will force a change in the market.

Just my thoughts.

I agree with you, sjr..

There seem to be a lot of people in Florence that think what the city needs is a new mall and a Publix..and a waterpark..and a trolley system. There's only so much money to go around, and while I think a Hooters would actually do incredibly well (attracting college students buying a pitcher of beer and people who just want some good food)..something would probably close. Seems like many people in Florence think weekend night 'gettin outta the house' entertainment is going to the Wal Mart Supercenter, where the lights are always on..

How does the second week of August look for everyone? I'm thinking about a Monday or Tuesday evening, say 6:30.

I'm interested, will have to wait on work schedule to commit though.

Looks good for me...

http://www.villageofprovidence.com/index.php?mainID=4
Has anyone been here?
I'd like to see something like this in downtown Florence. The atmosphere is great. Rent the lofts above the businesses as appts. Or maybe down along the proposed riverwalk.

As a Florence Jaycee, I am very interested in coming to this meeting. In fact, you might consider getting in touch with other civic organizations as well as the Jaycees about this meeting. Just let me know when and where....

I'm coming into this discussion late, but I would like to touch on just a few things.

I like the "village shopping" idea that imax71 posted a link to. I have visited an entire subdivision based on this concept in Birmingham. There is also an example in Huntsville called Providence. I agree that it would be a great idea for this type of development around the conference center and new River Walk park. I really think the south side of Veterans Drive has tremendous potential being along the river. I would love to see the River Walk develop into an actual tourist attraction that people come to town to see. I think it would be much better than any proposed plan for redeveloping Veterans Park, sans an actual civic center.

Also, I think it was brought up by LAWGRL a few pages back, an idea to build a connecting freeway to the Cherokee area. Ideally, I think a bypass that would start at the end of Cox Creek and swing southwest to Cherokee would be great. Unfortunately, I think the cost of a new bridge would keep it from ever happening. I think the Shoals' best shot at an interstate connection is to either lobby for an extension of I-565 down Highway 20, or a southern connection to future I-22 (Corridor X). I think a toll road option should be explored to pay for these, if neccessary.

Smoothcat, I can't take credit for that idea. It must have been someone else.

Techno, we'd love to have you and any other Jaycees who want to attend. We are looking at Sunday afternoon, August 11th. I will finalize everything and be sure it's posted here frequently for everyone to see. I will also call the Jaycees, Rotary Club, and other organizations to let them know.

Ideally, we will walk away from the first meeting with some great ideas and a unified voice to take to council meetings in the area. After all, isn't a city councilperson there to represent his/her constituents?

I went back and checked, LAWGRL, and you had actually quoted part of the original post. My apologies to ryokurin, who actually came up with the idea. I think it was a good one.

quote:

like the "village shopping" idea that imax71 posted a link to. I have visited an entire subdivision based on this concept in Birmingham. T

Would that be Mt. Laurel?

quote:

Originally posted by vick13:
Would that be Mt. Laurel?

Yep. We took a tour of the place last fall. I know that nothing being proposed for Florence is quite like it, and I'm not even sure that I would want to live in a place like that. I like the concept however. I think something on a smaller scale, using mostly apartments instead of housing, might work in the Shoals.

I lived a street over from Mt. Laurel when I was in B'ham the last time. It's a great concept.

I left an email for the Alabama Jaycee State President, who lives in Florence also. She was very interested in checking out this meeting. She also said that maybe we (Jaycees) can help you, in other ways.

quote:

Originally posted by Techno62:
I left an email for the Alabama Jaycee State President, who lives in Florence also. She was very interested in checking out this meeting. She also said that maybe we (Jaycees) can help you, in other ways.

Thank you, Techno. Unfortunately there are three different threads going about this meeting, so it's hard for people to keep up with it. But we are looking at Sunday afternoon on August 11th at Veterans' Park in Florence.

I think you mean August 12th, not the 11th.

You're right! Thanks for pointing that out.

Check with Hounddogblues for the official plans. He's in charge now. Hope everyone has some good ideas.

Is it too late for me to attend? My honey and I will actually be relocated by then (we close on our house next week).

Thanks!

okay, being as North as i am... what can i do to help? these are the kinds of things that this area so desperately needs!
i don't have any ideas that have not previously been stated and i agree with everything.
but seriously, if i had the kind of disposable income to fly down for the meeting i would, but i dont, so what can i do from 1000 miles away?

When will this meeting be held on Sunday? I have many people who are also interested in attending.

Thanks!

How will you sell this to the people that don't want change? After all,Most of your right wing conservatives cannot and will not be for a change.Changes scare conservatives.

quote:

Originally posted by FoshaBen:
I think many of you are missing the point of this forum that LAWGRL has created here. Rather than the usual and typical complaining about how bad things are (no jobs, dumb politicians, etc.), this should be used as a space where we can come up with SOLID ideas that will lead to solutions. We're all very well aware that many are not happy, however, complaining never solved any problems. Only solutions solve problems. I think that is one major hurdle the people of the Shoals are going to have to overcome.



Anyway, I'm a firm believer that first and foremost the solution begins with job opportunities. If they are available, no one will want to leave in the first place. I think that just focusing primarily on a revitalization of the downtown (which I would love to see happen) will be similar to what the local politicians have been trying to do for years. Their way of thinking has been to make the place attractive through beautification to attract tourists, and jobs will follow. I don't agree with that strategy. I feel that industry should come first, and when that begins to grow, there will be revenue and a need to beautify the area, making it more attractive.

First and foremost: jobs, and not restaurant jobs, or retail jobs. Real ones that will actually keep the younger generations from leaving once they've gotten their degrees.

AMEN!

I think that we could have success if the city leaders would become unified. That would be a great first step and I believe that it can be done.

so what happened was there a meeting?

I don't know!!! Did it happen????

I think it could STILL be a plan, just maybe in September when it cools down???

I am still very much all for putting something together. However, I hope that the next try will not be so cumbersome with people freaking out over when and where. You can't please everyone. If it is going to be left to me to organize it, I hope everyone will be respectful of the location and time.

I was really disappointed that it didn't happen. Lawgrl, just let me know if I can help with anything. I think this really needs to happen. I think it will prove to the city leaders that we do have a voice & we can get things done with out them. After all they are the reason I moved out of Florence & work in Huntsville!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!