now, whether or not hitler was actually a christian is really beside the point. he used the faith to his own ends just as any other man of the cloth -- and in much the same way the billfer uses it here on this forum. hitler is a glaring example of how religion was and still is used to control the minds of the ignorant.
quote:Originally posted by Jack Hammer:
Hitler needed the backing of the church. His friendship with Mussolini
didn't sit well with them. When Pius Xll was elected pope ,who hitler didn't
like a all, strained the feeling even further. The church had to protect
itself against a mad man.
K
and your point is?
Yes he blamed them for many things. He thought them to be inferior in every way. But why? Where would that kind of hatred come from?
He was antisemitic.
I can give you many quotes from the leaders of the Roman Catholic church going wayyyyy back that fueled the hatred of the jews.
Here is a nice timeline.
I am not going to put to much work into this so if you don't want to know the truth then you want. If you seriously want to understand how this kind of hatred can start and breed evil men like Hitler then you will do some studying for yourself.
I am in no way saying that the Catholic church were alone. Protestants were just as guilty. There is a long history of christian hatred of jews. It was too little too late by the time the church realized what their hatred had created. They tried to reign it in but you can't change the mind of people you have brainwashed that quickly. It still exist today. Christianity is the root of antisemitism.
Before some of you jump on me, I am not saying that anyone on this forum is antisemitic. I am only trying to point out the origins of the hatred for the Jewish people.
Regardless of whether or not Hitler truly believed any of this or he just used the church to further his agenda is beside the point. Either way it was the belief in the christian bible that gave him the power to control so many minds.
He was antisemitic.
I can give you many quotes from the leaders of the Roman Catholic church going wayyyyy back that fueled the hatred of the jews.
Here is a nice timeline.
I am not going to put to much work into this so if you don't want to know the truth then you want. If you seriously want to understand how this kind of hatred can start and breed evil men like Hitler then you will do some studying for yourself.
I am in no way saying that the Catholic church were alone. Protestants were just as guilty. There is a long history of christian hatred of jews. It was too little too late by the time the church realized what their hatred had created. They tried to reign it in but you can't change the mind of people you have brainwashed that quickly. It still exist today. Christianity is the root of antisemitism.
Before some of you jump on me, I am not saying that anyone on this forum is antisemitic. I am only trying to point out the origins of the hatred for the Jewish people.
Regardless of whether or not Hitler truly believed any of this or he just used the church to further his agenda is beside the point. Either way it was the belief in the christian bible that gave him the power to control so many minds.
quote:Originally posted by Unobtanium:
now, whether or not hitler was actually a christian is really beside the point. he used the faith to his own ends just as any other man of the cloth -- and in much the same way the billfer uses it here on this forum. hitler is a glaring example of how religion was and still is used to control the minds of the ignorant.
Dangit Uno, now you are posting my thoughts before I can get them out there. I was apparently typing too slow.
quote:Dangit Uno, now you are posting my thoughts before I can get them out there. I was apparently typing too slow.
hmm. would you care to elaborate on this Matthew McConaughey stream of thought i'm receiving right now? ewwww.
and what, praytell, is this thing about a naked bill gray???
... oh, wait, that's in the "things i never ever want to imagine again" part of your brain. with you there.
... oh, wait, that's in the "things i never ever want to imagine again" part of your brain. with you there.
Join me over in the "I'm in Jamaica, laying on a beach, sipping a fruity drink, listening to some local sing a Bob Marley classic, and feeling irie mon"
That is the best section, if you haven't already found it.
Stay out of my Matthew section. Some pretty weird stuff goes on there.
That is the best section, if you haven't already found it.
Stay out of my Matthew section. Some pretty weird stuff goes on there.
Hi Jan,
You ask me, "Bill, if we can't see the good fruits of your work then how are we to believe YOU are a christian?"
The problem could be that you are looking for worldly "fruit" and judging people based upon those. In the world's view, being a nice guy, doing nice things for people -- sometimes, being a good party-hearty buddy means a lot to worldly people -- letting a buddy crash at your place to sleep off a drunk, letting a buddy use your pad for an extramarital romp, and other such things are considered good "fruit" -- good buddy things.
Yet, with God -- the "fruit" of our salvation begins with Jesus' instruction in Matthew 28:18-20, "And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
And, it is found in Acts 1:8 where Jesus tells us, ". . .and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
And, again, in Mark 16:15 He tells us, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation."
Jan, a Christian believer's first responsibility is to share the Word of God with those who do not know Him. But, while doing this we are also to love, nurture, care for, and lift up those in need. Yes, we are to do good works -- as a result of the "free gift" of salvation He has given to us. This is the "fruit" of salvation all Christian believers should display -- and, if you are judging me for telling you about Jesus Christ -- Praise the Lord! I would rather have you mad at me for telling you about Jesus Christ -- than, to have Him mad at me for not telling you.
Then, you, either through oversight or through purposeful misinformation, tell me, "Also, I thought you said works didn't matter. I thought it was all about believing. Plus nothing else."
I have never said that "works" are not important. I have said, and will say it once again -- no one is saved through their works -- period! Works cannot save anyone (Romans 3:20, Ephesians 2:8-9)!
However, good works which are the result of a person's salvation should definitely be apparent. But, as I said earlier -- the works applauded by the world -- are not necessarily the works applauded by God.
How do we gain salvation? Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Simple, straightforward, and it always works!
This video may help you better understand: http://vimeo.com/15206311
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
You ask me, "Bill, if we can't see the good fruits of your work then how are we to believe YOU are a christian?"
The problem could be that you are looking for worldly "fruit" and judging people based upon those. In the world's view, being a nice guy, doing nice things for people -- sometimes, being a good party-hearty buddy means a lot to worldly people -- letting a buddy crash at your place to sleep off a drunk, letting a buddy use your pad for an extramarital romp, and other such things are considered good "fruit" -- good buddy things.
Yet, with God -- the "fruit" of our salvation begins with Jesus' instruction in Matthew 28:18-20, "And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
And, it is found in Acts 1:8 where Jesus tells us, ". . .and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
And, again, in Mark 16:15 He tells us, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation."
Jan, a Christian believer's first responsibility is to share the Word of God with those who do not know Him. But, while doing this we are also to love, nurture, care for, and lift up those in need. Yes, we are to do good works -- as a result of the "free gift" of salvation He has given to us. This is the "fruit" of salvation all Christian believers should display -- and, if you are judging me for telling you about Jesus Christ -- Praise the Lord! I would rather have you mad at me for telling you about Jesus Christ -- than, to have Him mad at me for not telling you.
Then, you, either through oversight or through purposeful misinformation, tell me, "Also, I thought you said works didn't matter. I thought it was all about believing. Plus nothing else."
I have never said that "works" are not important. I have said, and will say it once again -- no one is saved through their works -- period! Works cannot save anyone (Romans 3:20, Ephesians 2:8-9)!
However, good works which are the result of a person's salvation should definitely be apparent. But, as I said earlier -- the works applauded by the world -- are not necessarily the works applauded by God.
How do we gain salvation? Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Simple, straightforward, and it always works!
This video may help you better understand: http://vimeo.com/15206311
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Attachments
Images (1)
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Jan,
You ask me, "Bill, if we can't see the good fruits of your work then how are we to believe YOU are a christian?"
The problem could be that you are looking for worldly "fruit" and judging people based upon those. In the world's view, being a nice guy, doing nice things for people -- sometimes, being a good party-hearty buddy means a lot to worldly people -- letting a buddy crash at your place to sleep off a drunk, letting a buddy use your pad for an extramarital romp, and other such things are considered good "fruit" -- good buddy things.
Yet, with God -- the "fruit" of our salvation begins wi
we are also to love, nurture, care for, and lift up those in need.
and, if you are judging me for telling you about Jesus Christ -- Praise the Lord! I would rather have you mad at me for telling you about Jesus Christ -- than, to have Him mad at me for not telling you.
Bill
Good grief, Bill! Do you really think she was referring to fruit in the worldly sense? We were, after all, discussing the fruits of a Christian.
I’ve never seen you treat anyone here with love, care, nurturing, or even try to lift anyone up. You are constantly putting people down, telling them they’re in the wrong church, a cult, or some negative junk.
My bet would be that He will be mad at you.....for doing it with such mean condemnation. You have no idea what love is.
quote:Originally posted by semiannualchick:
Good grief, Bill! Do you really think she was referring to fruit in the worldly sense? We were, after all, discussing the fruits of a Christian.
I’ve never seen you treat anyone here with love, care, nurturing, or even try to lift anyone up. You are constantly putting people down, telling them they’re in the wrong church, a cult, or some negative junk.
My bet would be that He will be mad at you.....for doing it with such mean condemnation. You have no idea what love is.
Hi Chick,
I sincerely pray that you sincerely seek a saving relationship with Jesus Christ. That way, you can be at the Believer's Judgment to see Him get mad at me. To know YOU are there is worth having Him get mad at me.
Give it some thought. I would much rather see you at the Believer's Judgment than not see you there and realize that you will be at the Great White Throne Judgment.
So, Chick, get even with me -- and become a Christian believer so that you can be there to witness me getting chewed out by Christ. PLEASE!
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Attachments
Images (1)
The French carmelite
Jacques de Jesus
Fr Jacques de Jesus was a French Carmelite and headmaster of the Petit Collège Sainte-Thérèse de l’Enfant-Jésus. Born in Bunel in 1900 he died, emaciated and broken by tuberculosis, in Linz, Austria, in 1944 shortly after he was liberated from Mauthausen death camp, having been sent there for sheltering Jewish boys in his school. The priest’s story is recounted in Au revoir les enfants, Louis Malle’s classic movie of 1987.
The priest had turned the boys’ school into a refuge both for young men seeking to avoid forced labour in Germany and for Jews trying to escape the Holocaust. He enrolled three Jewish boys – Hans-Helmut Michel, Jacques-France Halpern and Maurice Schlosser – under false names, and helped to hide three other Jews – including two adults.
He did this by creating jobs for two them at the school and gave sanctuary to the third by arranging shelter for him with a local villager.
He was arrested by the Gestapo on January 15 1944 and the Jewish boys were transported to Auschwitz where they perished. Fr Jacques was honoured by as a Righteous Gentile by Yad Vashem in 1985.
Jacques de Jesus
Fr Jacques de Jesus was a French Carmelite and headmaster of the Petit Collège Sainte-Thérèse de l’Enfant-Jésus. Born in Bunel in 1900 he died, emaciated and broken by tuberculosis, in Linz, Austria, in 1944 shortly after he was liberated from Mauthausen death camp, having been sent there for sheltering Jewish boys in his school. The priest’s story is recounted in Au revoir les enfants, Louis Malle’s classic movie of 1987.
The priest had turned the boys’ school into a refuge both for young men seeking to avoid forced labour in Germany and for Jews trying to escape the Holocaust. He enrolled three Jewish boys – Hans-Helmut Michel, Jacques-France Halpern and Maurice Schlosser – under false names, and helped to hide three other Jews – including two adults.
He did this by creating jobs for two them at the school and gave sanctuary to the third by arranging shelter for him with a local villager.
He was arrested by the Gestapo on January 15 1944 and the Jewish boys were transported to Auschwitz where they perished. Fr Jacques was honoured by as a Righteous Gentile by Yad Vashem in 1985.
Józef and Wiktoria Ulma were among those heroic Polish Catholics who paid with their lives for attempting to save Jews from the Holocaust.
From 1942 they sheltered the Szalls, a Jewish family of six, in the attic of their home in Markowa, in the south-east of the country, along with the two daughters of a Jewish neighbour. Their home was raided on March 24 1944 after the Nazis were tipped off by Włodzimierz Leś, a Ukrainian policeman who had taken over the Szalls’ property. As an example to Poles of the penalty for hiding Jews, the Nazis killed Wiktoria, who was heavily pregnant, and Jozef. Their six children screamed at the sight of their parents’ bodies and they too were butchered.
The Polish Catholic Church opened the cause for canonisation of Józef and Wiktoria in 2003. On the 60th anniversary of the massacre a stone memorial was erected in Markowa to honour the memory of the Ulma family.
The inscription on the monument reads: “Saving the lives of others they laid down their own lives. Hiding eight elder brothers in faith, they were killed with them. May their sacrifice be a call for respect and love to every human being. They were the sons and daughters of this land; they will remain in our hearts.”
The nun
Agnes Walsh
Sister Agnes Walsh is one of just 13 British men and women to be honoured as a Righteous Among Nations, or Righteous Gentile, by Yad Vashem.
The Catholic nun was born Clare Walsh in Hull in 1896 and entered the Daughters of Charity in 1916, working first in Ireland and then in Palestine.
Following a fall she was sent to St Vincent de Paul convent in Cadouin in Dordogne, France, to recuperate and when war broke out she found herself in occupied territory.
In December 1943, during manhunts for Jews in the area, Pierre Cremieux, a French Jew, asked the nuns to hide his wife, seven-year-old son and four-month-old twins.
Sister Agnes, in spite of risks to herself if the Germans found out that she was English, pleaded with her superior, Sister Granier, to shelter the family until liberation.
The family stayed in touch with the nun after the war and their testimony led to her recognition by Yad Vashem in 1990 at 94. She died in 1993.
Curiously, in 2009 her name was the only one of the 13 to be omitted from a list of the rescuers, put together by the Holocaust Education Trust, who may be posthumously honoured by the British Government for their actions in saving Jewish lives. It was later included after The Catholic Herald alerted the trust to its error.
Agnes Walsh
Sister Agnes Walsh is one of just 13 British men and women to be honoured as a Righteous Among Nations, or Righteous Gentile, by Yad Vashem.
The Catholic nun was born Clare Walsh in Hull in 1896 and entered the Daughters of Charity in 1916, working first in Ireland and then in Palestine.
Following a fall she was sent to St Vincent de Paul convent in Cadouin in Dordogne, France, to recuperate and when war broke out she found herself in occupied territory.
In December 1943, during manhunts for Jews in the area, Pierre Cremieux, a French Jew, asked the nuns to hide his wife, seven-year-old son and four-month-old twins.
Sister Agnes, in spite of risks to herself if the Germans found out that she was English, pleaded with her superior, Sister Granier, to shelter the family until liberation.
The family stayed in touch with the nun after the war and their testimony led to her recognition by Yad Vashem in 1990 at 94. She died in 1993.
Curiously, in 2009 her name was the only one of the 13 to be omitted from a list of the rescuers, put together by the Holocaust Education Trust, who may be posthumously honoured by the British Government for their actions in saving Jewish lives. It was later included after The Catholic Herald alerted the trust to its error.
quote:Originally posted by House of David:
The nun
Agnes Walsh
Sister Agnes Walsh is one of just 13 British men and women to be honoured as a Righteous Among Nations, or Righteous Gentile, by Yad Vashem.
The Catholic nun was born Clare Walsh in Hull in 1896 and entered the Daughters of Charity in 1916, working first in Ireland and then in Palestine.
Following a fall she was sent to St Vincent de Paul convent in Cadouin in Dordogne, France, to recuperate and when war broke out she found herself in occupied territory.
In December 1943, during manhunts for Jews in the area, Pierre Cremieux, a French Jew, asked the nuns to hide his wife, seven-year-old son and four-month-old twins.
Sister Agnes, in spite of risks to herself if the Germans found out that she was English, pleaded with her superior, Sister Granier, to shelter the family until liberation.
The family stayed in touch with the nun after the war and their testimony led to her recognition by Yad Vashem in 1990 at 94. She died in 1993.
Curiously, in 2009 her name was the only one of the 13 to be omitted from a list of the rescuers, put together by the Holocaust Education Trust, who may be posthumously honoured by the British Government for their actions in saving Jewish lives. It was later included after The Catholic Herald alerted the trust to its error.
--------------------------------
I just wanted to say this before jennifer does
"SO"
.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Chick,
I sincerely pray that you sincerely seek a saving relationship with Jesus Christ. That way, you can be at the Believer's Judgment to see Him get mad at me. To know YOU are there is worth having Him get mad at me.
Give it some thought. I would much rather see you at the Believer's Judgment than not see you there and realize that you will be at the Great White Throne Judgment.
So, Chick, get even with me -- and become a Christian believer so that you can be there to witness me getting chewed out by Christ. PLEASE!
Bill
According to your Once Saved, Always Saved theory, I will be there.
