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Hi to my Forum Friends,

In another discussion I began titled "LGBT Groups Call For Boycott Of Salvation Army's Red Kettles" -- I asked several questions of my Christian Forum Friend, O No, and would like to take a moment to discuss her answers:

First, I asked, "Do you agree that we as Christians should believe and teach the same way (i.e., thing) that God teaches?"

And, she replied, "Bill, the way that God teaches is both through the Bible, and through the Holy Spirit.  I believe in God's teachings, but I feel that I can only apply those teachings to myselfWhile you are concentrating on the passages about homosexuality, I am concentrating on the passages that tell us not to judge.  The Bible is there for anyone to read, and the Holy Spirit doesn't need my help, so I don't feel the need to teach anyone unless they ask for my advice."

Let me begin by saying that, to truly understand God's Word, we must look at the entire Bible.  There are no passages only for Bill Gray regarding homosexuality -- and other passages only for O No which teach "do not judge."  To have a balanced theology, a balanced understanding of God's Word -- we must take into account the entire Bible.  Where the Bible agrees, we teach.  Where the Bible contradicts, we must look for additional clarification and understanding.

True, God the Father and the Holy Spirit do not need our help to teach, or to do anything in this world.  Yet, for Their own reasons, They have chosen to use our "feet on the street" to do many things They could do with only a spoken word.  Why?  Well, I suppose it is like the way we teach our children -- by letting them do tasks we could do much more efficiently.  But, we ask them to do these tasks so that they might grow more mature.

When my children were young teens, each had cho-r-e-s to do every week.  One cho-r-e for my daughter was to wash and dry the cloths -- a task I could have done if a few hours, yet, it took her all weekend because of procrastination.  Yes, it would have been easier to just do it myself -- but, that would not have helped her to grow into the responsible woman she is today.  God teaches us in the same way -- by allowing us to do, in our human ways, what He could do in one divine moment.

My Friend, you say,  "I am concentrating on the passages that tell us not to judge."

Yet, what does the Bible really say about judging?   Rather than rely upon what I believe, let's look at what at what the folks at God Questions Ministries have to say on the subject.  But, first, who is Got Questions Ministries?


Mission Statement of Got Questions Ministries:  Got Questions Ministries seeks to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ by  providing biblical, applicable, and timely answers to spiritually related questions through an internet presence.   GotQuestions.org is a volunteer ministry of dedicated and trained servants who have a desire to assist others in their understanding of God, Scripture, salvation, and other spiritual topics.  We will do our best to prayerfully and thoroughly research your question and answer it in a biblically-based manner.  It is not our purpose to make you agree with us, but rather to point you to what the Bible says concerning your question.  All of our answers are reviewed for biblical  and theological accuracy by our staff.  May God richly bless you as you seek to study His Word and grow in your walk with Him! (Romans 11:36).

Their web site is found at:  http://www.gotquestions.org

 

Looking on the Got Questions Ministries web site, we find:

 

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What Does The Bible Mean That We Are Not to Judge Others?

http://www.gotquestions.org/do-not-judge.html

 

Question:  "What does the Bible mean that we are not to judge others?"

Answer:  This is an issue that has confused many people.  On one hand, we are commanded by the Lord Jesus, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1).  On the other hand, the Bible also exhorts us to beware of evildoers and false prophets and to avoid those who practice all kinds of evil.  How are we to discern who these people are if we do not make some kind of judgment  about them?

Christians are often accused of "judging" whenever they speak out against a sinful activity.  However, that is not the meaning of the Scripture verses that state, "Do not judge."

There is a righteous kind of judgment we are supposed to exercise -- with careful discernment (John 7:24).  When Jesus told us not to judge (Matthew 7:1), He was telling us not to judge hypocritically.  Matthew 7:2-5 declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.  Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?  How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?  You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."   What Jesus was condemning here was hypocritical, self-righteous judgments of others.

Bill Gray comment:  This tells me that if a person is a closet thief, adulterer, liar, or even homosexual -- how can this person tell another he/she is wrong for doing this act -- if the accuser is doing the same?  This is the hypocritical judging Jesus tells us to avoid.

In Matthew 7:2-5, Jesus warns against judging someone else for his sin when you yourself are sinning even worse.  That is the kind of judging Jesus commanded us not to do.  (However) if a believer sees another believer sinning, it is his Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with his sin (Matthew 18:15-17).

This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope -- and with the ultimate goal -- of bringing repentance in the other person (James 5:20) and restoration to the fellowship.  We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15).  We are to proclaim what God's Word says about sin.  2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and  encourage -- with great patience and careful instruction."  We are to "judge" sin -- but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences -- the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6).

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Second, I asked O No, "Based upon that, should Christians accept the homosexual lifestyle as an acceptable, alternate lifestyle?"

And, O No responds, "I wouldn't so much say that ANY lifestyle is to be accepted or NOT accepted.  It is not my place to accept ANYONE'S lifestyle.  I mean, who am I to tell anyone else how to live?  All I can do is give advice or an opinion IF ASKED.  Anything beyond that is putting my nose in someone else's business, and that's not where it belongs.  The way I see it, God will deal with each person's lifestyle choices, whether they be homosexual, drug addicts, television addicts, or whatever else."

What does the Bible say about the homosexual lifestyle?


It is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22); it is a detestable act (Leviticus 20:13); it is a degrading passion (Romans 1:26); it is unnatural (Romans 1:26); it is committing indecent acts (Romans 1:27); it is contrary to sound teaching (1 Timothy 1:10); and, those who live this lifestyle are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

 

God said it!  Which part of these Scripture verses can you or I say is wrong?  So, how can we say that the homosexual lifestyle is not displeasing to God?  And, if it it is displeasing to God, should not Christians be trying to bring our erring Friends, who are in this lifestyle, into the Light of God's Word?

Third, I asked O No,"And, based upon that, should Christian churches allow homosexuals to be pastors, bishops, and leaders within their Christian church family?"

My Friend, O No, tells me, "The third question, I believe I dealt with in my previous post.  Whether a pastor or other church leader is a homosexual or if he sins in another way, we are all sinners, and I believe it is what is in our hearts that matter.   I knew a man once who had a VERY foul mouth. He grew up around parents whose language was, shall we say 'colorful' -- and then he joined the  Navy.  He could barely speak without several of those words coming out. . .

So you could say that foul language was part of HIS lifestyle.  Does that mean he WASN'T a Christian?  NO!  He loved the Lord with all his heart and prayed for forgiveness every day.  It is my belief that he GOT that forgiveness.  And it is my belief that if a homosexual loves the Lord but can't seem to change his  lifestyle, God will judge him on what is in his heart.  So, yeah, if a homosexual feels the call to become a pastor, that's OK with me."

Briefly, let me state that while I am certain that profane language is not pleasing to God -- He has not declared, in the Bible, that it is an abomination, a detestable act, a degrading passion, or unnatural -- as He has homosexuality.

O No, based upon the underlined portion of your answer above, it is clear that you believe it is okay for a pastor, elder, bishop, etc., of a Christian church to be living an active homosexual lifestyle -- and still teaching God's Word.  Let's talk about that.

A church leader, be he pastor, elder, or a bishop, has the task of teaching the full Written Word of God.  How can this person teach the full Word of God if he has to skip portions of the Bible which condemns his chosen lifestyle?   Can he teach, "God and the Bible teach that this lifestyle if wrong for you -- but, it is okay for me"?   No, he cannot.  The teachings of the Bible apply equally to all believers.  As a matter of fact, we might say that they apply even more to the one who is shepherding the flock -- for it is he, the  pastor/teacher/leader, who has been chosen to be the role model for the flock.

No, a person cannot teach the Word of God -- if he is living an active lifestyle which spits in the face of God.

Regarding your Friend who frequently used profane language; that is a different story.  You imply that this man could not stop himself from using profanities.  Personally, I believe he could, if not stop the profanity -- greatly curtail his profanities.

Before I was a Christian, I, too, was rather adept at using what you call "colorful language."   When my wife and I married, our children (technically my step-children) were in their young teen years.  And, I recall an incident in the early days of our marriage when, during dinner, I used the "S" word.  Lana, our daughter, told me in very firm words, "We don't talk like that in this house!"  Out  of the mouth of babes!  But, I got her point.

Once I became a Christian believer "colorful language" and off-color humor had to be curtailed.  And, that is what is meant in 2 Corinthians 5:17 (NLT), "This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!"  Here, I have used the paraphrase NLT version for it states the intent very clearly -- when we become a child of God, we are transformed, we are a new person.  Part of working toward maturity in Christ is to work toward controlling those worldly urges,  desires, and habits which were second nature to us before.

Was I able to accomplish this immediately?  No.  For the most part, I did curtail it.  But, like your Friend, there are still times of great frustration, or times I bang my finger with a hammer -- when, I will let slip a word or phrase which is not appropriate.

And, I recall once, in the early years of my Christian walk, I entered a man's office and laying on his desk was an object which in earlier years would have produced an inappropriate joke.  My immediate response to was to tell the joke -- but, then I caught myself and refrained.  It can be done.  And, the longer we walk with the Lord, the easier it becomes.

Fourth, I asked O No, "How would you apply Jesus' admonition in Matthew 28:19-20 (go, make disciples, baptize, teach) and Acts 1:8 and Mark 16:15 (be My witnesses) to that situation?"

O No answers, "As for Jesus' instructions to go teach and baptize, he was talking to the apostles.  And they did exactly as He instructed them so that by now, the whole world, or just about, has heard about Him.  I believe that was just the first step in bringing God's children home to Him.  But I think it would be silly to just keep taking that FIRST step over and over again.  Now that that step has been taken, it is our job to CONTINUE the journey, by loving one another, helping the poor and the sick and the old, and being a good influence on children and the lost."

In that last teaching with His apostles in Matthew 28, was Jesus giving only to them what we call the Great Commission -- or was He, while directly speaking to them -- also addressing all Christian believers down through the ages?   Personally, I believe all of His teachings and admonitions, throughout the Bible, were addressed to all believers, including us today.

But, once again, let me yield the floor to the answer given in GotQuestions.Org, for their answer is very complete:

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What is the Great Commission?

http://www.gotquestions.org/great-commission.html

 

Question:  "What is the Great Commission?"

Answer:   Matthew 28:19-20 contains what has come to be called the Great Commission: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”  Jesus gave this command to the apostles shortly before He ascended into heaven, and it essentially outlines what Jesus expected the apostles, and those who followed them, to  do in His absence.

It is interesting that in the original Greek, the only specific command in Matthew 28:19-20 is “make disciples.”   The Great Commission instructs us to make disciples while we are going throughout the world and while we are going about our daily activities.  How are we to make disciples?  By baptizing them and teaching them all that Jesus commanded.  “Make disciples” is the command of the Great Commission.  “As you are going,” “baptizing,” and “teaching” are the means by which we fulfill the command to “make disciples.”

Many understand Acts 1:8 as part of the Great Commission as well, “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”  The Great Commission is enabled by the power of the Holy Spirit.  We are to be Christ's witnesses, fulfilling the Great Commission in our cities (Jerusalem), in our states and countries (Judea and Samaria), and anywhere else God sends us (to the ends of the earth).

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O No, you tell me, ". . . it is our job to CONTINUE the journey, by loving one another, helping the poor and the sick and the old, and being a good influence on children and the lost."

Apparently, you see this as the end goal of your Christian walk.  I see this as the fruit of my Christian walk -- as I Go, Make Disciples, Baptize, Teach -- as I walk with Christ "as His witness to all the world."  While sharing His Gospel, I am to also be helping the poor, the sick, the old, the children, the lost -- and loving them all.  But, my love must be shown in pointing them toward a life in Christ.  If we do not point them toward a life in Christ -- regardless of how much we love them, feed them, care for their physical needs -- we have failed them, and our God.

My Friend, do you see the difference?  What you see as the final goal of your Christian walk -- I believe Christ sees as only the collateral fruit of our walk -- as we continue the Great Commission journey He has set before us to bring more people to life in and with God.

The fruit you strive to express -- loving, caring for, providing for -- should be the effect of your sharing the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, with all you meet in your daily walk as a Christian believer.  It should not be the end goal of your Christian walk; but, only a sign, a manifestation, a revealing of your Christian life -- as you, in Christian love, share your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, with those you meet.

Finally, O No, you tell me, "But mainly, for myself, I think MY job is to put my life and all of my actions into His hands so that I can be ready to do His will at the drop of a hat, no matter what His will is, and no matter where it takes me."

That is so true.  But, are you really doing His will -- if you are not actively making disciples, actively pointing people toward a life in Christ?  Are you really doing His will -- if you see a person living a lifestyle which you know God condemns -- and, you just turn your back and walk away?  Or, if you just meekly view his/her condemned lifestyle as acceptable -- and declare that you will leave this person to God? 

 

Have you ever wondered if God did not bring this opportunity, this person, to you -- because He wants you to "be His witness" to this person?  Do you really believe you are doing His will if you do not at least make an attempt to share the Word of God with this person?

Before you became a Christian believer, the seed of salvation had been sown for you, pointing you toward Jesus Christ.  Are you really doing God's will now -- if you do not actively sow seeds to point others toward Him?

O No, you tell me, "All I can do is give advice or an opinion IF ASKED."   What is this person never asks?

My Friend, I would never call you a "couch potato" Christian.  However, the method of witnessing you suggest, i.e., "I will just wait  here and if anyone wants to ask me, I will tell them about my Lord" -- would tend to suggest a "couch potato" approach to being His witness.

But, regardless of how we each choose to be His witness, you are my Christian sister and I thank God for you.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi to my Forum Friends,

I asked several questions of my Christian Forum Friend, O No, and would like to take a moment to discuss her answers:

 

Bill, I thought you & O No were now friends? You refer to her as your “Christian sister” but you chastise her here & in a topic meant just for her? Why do you feel the need to do that? Just because she may believe differently than you do, you feel the need to “set her straight”? Why not carry it to her privately?

 

a balanced understanding of God's Word -- we must take into account the entire Bible

 

You believe you are to take in account the ENTIRE Bible? Then why don’t you? I have given you many scriptures that goes against your theory of OSAS but you ignore any kind of conversation about them.


Where the Bible contradicts

 

The Bible contradicts?? You didn’t say “seems” to contradict. You told me once that the Bible may seem to contradict but does not. It has to be either one or the other, it can’t be both.

 

Yet, what does the Bible really say about judging?   Rather than rely upon what I believe, let's look at what at what the folks at God Questions Ministries have to say on the subject

 

Why would you have to rely on what the folks at God Questions Ministries have to say on the subject of judging?  If you have all that faith in God & His word that you claim to have, why not just go to the Bible?

 

I see this as the fruit of my Christian walk -- as I Go, Make Disciples, Baptize, Teach -- as I walk with Christ "as His witness to all the world."  While sharing His Gospel, I am to also be helping the poor, the sick, the old, the children, the lost -- and loving them all.  But, my love must be shown in pointing them toward a life in Christ.  If we do not point them toward a life in Christ -- regardless of how much we love them, feed them, care for their physical needs -- we have failed them, and our God.

are you really doing His will -- if you are not actively making disciples, actively pointing people toward a life in Christ? 

 

YOU go, YOU make disciples, YOU baptize, YOU teach? Your love must be shown in pointing people toward Christ?  Are you for real? All I’ve ever seen out of you is mocking, criticizing, & making fun of everyone on this forum, with the exception of a couple of people that think you’re Jesus in drag. I’ve never read anything you have posted that indicated any kind of love or compassion for anyone on this forum.

 

You may fool those people that read your writings on the internet but I just bet you don’t show them the contempt that you do the people here.   

 

Have you ever wondered if God did not bring this opportunity, this person, to you -- because He wants you to "be His witness" to this person?

 

You need to get over yourself & realize that most of the people on this forum is not going to come to you for any kind of advice or give you any kind of opportunity to witness to them. You may think you are witnessing to people by being on this forum or to those that “read but don’t post”. Those & most of us do not take you seriously because of the way you come across.

 

Ok, you can come back now & accuse me of being one of your admirers, accuse me of starting a “spitting contest”, post one of your silly cartoons, or the many other things you come up with when someone doesn’t agree with or questions something you say. I know, as many here do, that’s your way of not having to answer any questions put to you. 

O No can be blunt in her way of dealing with people  on this forum that she hates. I'm very outspoken myself, & though I can't think of anyone I hate, I dislike you very much. I hope she puts you in your place since you felt such a need to ridicule her & tell her what kind of Christian she needs to be.

You have a good day now, ye heah?

Whew! Bill, that was a LONG post. I hope you don't mind if I respond in small segments. It might take a while to address it all because it is getting pretty busy here at the shop.

 

But the first thing I'd say off the top of my head is - and this is hard to explain - but the way I know I am doing God's will and not my own, in everything, every day, is, well, when what I do isn't self-directed. Sometimes, no, a lot of times, I will find myself saying or doing something I had no idea I was going to say or do. It wasn't something I thought about first. I know the atheists among us will jump on that and make fun of me, but it's true. I'm not talking about the little mindless things we all do every day, like go pour another cup of coffee without thinking about it, but the things one says during interactions with others, or the places one goes.

 

I know I've talked about how I ended up moving to where I did. The first I knew about it was when I told my boss I needed to give my notice because I was moving. I HAD NO IDEA THAT WAS GOING TO COME OUT OF MY MOUTH!!! My friends called me crazy for moving alone to a place where I didn't know a soul. I told them I wasn't DOING it, God was.

 

And of course, it WAS His will that I come here. I have been able to do what He obviously wants me to do, and I pride myself that He has been able to do a lot of good in this area, simply because I asked Him to make me a tool in His hands.

 

By the way, that pride is NOT because I take credit for any possible good my being here has brought about. The pride is in knowing I am doing something for my Lord, whom I love so much. If I may, I feel a sense of pride in making HIM happy, who has given me so much.

 

Another example: I give a LOT of guitar lessons every week, a good portion of them to kids. I'm told I am a good teacher, and if I am, it's not just because I know my stuff, it's because I am patient and caring. I LOVE kids, and I love helping them. Quite a few of the kids call me "Mom", or "Music Mom".

 

But there is one kid who started recently to whom I took an immediate dislike. He is difficult to talk to. It seems he has a chip on his shoulder a mile wide. When I correct a mistake, he is apt to say something like, "I failed." When he comes into the shop, he'll even respond, "Why do you ask?" when I say "Hi, how are you?" He doesn't practice, he doesn't even pay attention half the time.

 

There is something in me that wants to tell this kid it isn't working out. There is something in me that wants to tell this kid to stop being such a whiner. There is something in me that wants to tell this kid to grow up. (He's 13, but he acts like a nine year old.)

 

But every time this kid comes for a lesson, every word that comes out of my mouth is patient and encouraging. I even try to make small talk with him so he will relax and learn to trust me. I think he has a bad home life, and if he can find an adult he can trust, maybe he will feel a bit more secure. It is not ME who is saying kind things to this kid. I truly can't stand him, and a few times after he left I have asked myself why I was so nice instead of telling him he should take up a different instrument.

 

I KNOW why though. Because I start every day with a prayer that God will use me today, to do His will. And it must be His will that I help this kid.

 

So, as I think we have talked about before, each of us has a PERSONAL commission from God. Yours is different from mine, and mine is different from somebody else's. There is a LOT of work to go around, and I think He uses each of us according to the talents he has given us for that purpose.

 

I'll get back to the other points you raised later, OK?

What does the Bible say about the homosexual lifestyle?


It is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22); it is a detestable act (Leviticus 20:13); it is a degrading passion (Romans 1:26); it is unnatural (Romans 1:26); it is committing indecent acts (Romans 1:27); it is contrary to sound teaching (1 Timothy 1:10); and, those who live this lifestyle are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

 

God said it!  Which part of these Scripture verses can you or I say is wrong?  So, how can we say that the homosexual lifestyle is not displeasing to God?  And, if it it is displeasing to God, should not Christians be trying to bring our erring Friends, who are in this lifestyle, into the Light of God's Word?

 

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Bill, do you each pork and shellfish?  Yes or no.  God said it, which part of those scriptures can you say is wrong?   How can you still eat pork? 

Hi O No,

First, let me say that what Chick has implied, that my post was to attack or to chastise you -- is totally wrong and off mark.  You and I both know that I share our dialogues on the Religion Forum because these are issues which are pertinent to all believers and to all seekers.  It is often good to lay out the issues, both pro and con, so that we all have a clearer understanding.  I am sure that you are aware that this is, in no way, an attack against you.  You are my Christian sister and I praise God for you.

You tell me, "Whew! Bill, that was a LONG post. I hope you don't mind if I respond in small segments.  It might take a while to address it all because it is getting pretty busy here at the shop."

Yes, unfortunately, it was longer than I would have liked.  But, I felt that the issues you raised were worthy of a complete answer.  A  few years ago, a Roman Catholic Friend sent me e-mails with many questions and comments.  If I tried to answer each question -- my response would have been in book form.  So, I chose to answer only those I felt were most important.  And, my Friend complained that I would not answer all his questions.  Even my pastor asked why I did not answer them all.  I told him that it was because my Friends Ministry is a Christian eNewsletter -- not a Christian book.

You share with me, "But the first thing I'd say off the top of my head is - and this is hard to explain - but the way I know I am doing God's will and not my own, in everything, every day, is, well, when what I do isn't self directed.  Sometimes, no, a lot of times, I will find myself saying or doing something I had no idea I was going to say or do.  It wasn't something I thought about first.  I know the atheists among us will jump on that and make fun of me, but it's true.  I'm not talking about the little mindless things we all do every day, like go pour another cup of coffee without thinking about it, but the things one says during interactions with others, or the places one goes."

For many of us, it is often hard to know when what we are doing is in the will of God.  Years ago, I had just finished writing an tract about knowing if our decision is the will of God -- and, I received an e-mail from a Christian Friend.  She had gone through marital problems and was considering sending her oldest daughter to the Philippines to live with her family until she got everything back in order.  I e-mailed her my tract about God's will -- and she, on her own, chose not to send her daughter to the Philippines.  I  applauded her decision -- but, made no effort to influence her one way or the other.

Basically, what I believe and what my tract had said was -- when one is in a situation which calls for an important decision -- first, pray about it.  Then, consider the choices.  Settle on the choice which feels right to you.  If this choice is in the will of God, you will feel peace in making that decision.  If it is not the right choice, you will feel an unrest, a discomfort -- you will not be comfortable with that decision.   

When you have made the decision which you feel is in God's will and you are at peace with it -- go for it.   As you travel on that journey of faith, you need to pray about it daily.  Today, the direction you have taken may be in the will of God -- but, tomorrow, for reasons of His own, He may want you to detour.  Always listen to that voice inside, which is the Holy Spirit, and be willing to follow as He leads.  Will we always make the right decision?  No, but, our batting average will be amazingly improved -- if we determine to  stay on the path of God's will.

Then, you tell me, "I know I've talked about how I ended up moving to where I did.  The first I knew about it was when I told my boss I needed to give my notice because I was moving.  I HAD NO IDEA THAT WAS GOING TO COME OUT OF MY MOUTH!!!  My friends called me crazy for moving alone to a place where I didn't know a soul.  I told them I wasn't DOING it, God was.

And of course, it WAS His will that I come here.  I have been able to do what He obviously wants me to do, and I pride myself that He has been able to do a lot of good in this area, simply because I asked Him to make me a tool in His hands.  By the way, that pride is NOT because I take credit for any possible good my being here has brought about. The pride is in knowing I am doing something for my Lord, whom I love so much.  If I may, I feel a sense of pride in making HIM happy, who has given me so much."

Once again, I can relate to what you have done.   About 15 years ago, while we were still living in beautiful Orange County, we visited friends living in Corona, in Riverside County.  At that time, homes were very inexpensive in the Corona area.  Dory suggested that we could buy a much larger and much nicer home there.  My immediate response was, "Lady, are you kidding?  I would rather live in a three room house in Orange County -- than in a mansion here in this wilderness!"   And, I thought that was the end of that  idea.

Fast forward a few years -- and God had changed our situation and had brought us to live in Riverside County.  Our prayers and our dream had been to move to North San Diego County (beautiful horse country) and start a Bible Study/Music Ministry.  But, for some reason God had brought us to Riverside County.  I could only surmise that He wanted us working in the relatively new church plant in Corona.  And, I told our pastor, "My heart is in North San Diego County.  But, I believe that God wants us working in this church.   So, this is where we will stay -- for a while."    So far, that while has lasted twelve years.  But, I still have that North San Diego County dream in my prayers -- and, one day, God just may give us the go ahead.

We helped get the Bible study and the Sunday School started in that church.  And, we have helped start or grow two other churches in Riverside County.  But, we are still in the wilderness -- looking over the horizon toward North San Diego County -- with longing eyes and heart.

Next, you share, "Another example: I give a LOT of guitar lessons every week, a good portion of them to kids.  I'm told I am a good teacher, and if I am, it's not just because I know my stuff, it's because I am patient and caring.  I LOVE kids, and I love helping them.  Quite a few of the kids call me 'Mom,' or 'Music Mom.' "

Wow!  We do have a lot of parallels.  About a year ago, Dory began to give piano and voice lessons to young people in our church.   And, she has expanded it to include other young people outside our church family.   Those whose family cannot afford to pay, it is not a problem.  They get the same lessons and the same love-based teaching as those who can afford the small fee of $20 a lesson.  The main reason Dory does this is that she loves music, she loves young people, she loves God, and she wants to share  the gift of music God has given her, with others.

Our home is configured so that my office is in a bedroom off of the living room -- but, with an accordion wall which can be opened or closed for privacy.  In twelve years the wall has never been closed because I love the open feeling it gives me while I work.   And, when Dory has the young people in for music and voice lessons, they often will end by breaking out the guitars and having a singing praise session.  So, while I am working on my writings -- I have a praise and worship session going on right beside me.  God is good!

You share, "But there is one kid who started recently to whom I took an immediate dislike.  He is difficult to talk to.  It seems he has a chip on his shoulder a mile wide.  When I correct a mistake, he is apt to say something like, "I failed."  When he comes into the  shop, he'll even respond, "Why do you ask?" when I say "Hi, how are you?"  He doesn't practice, he doesn't even pay attention half the time.  There is something in me that wants to tell this kid it isn't working out.  There is something in me that wants to tell this kid  to stop being such a whiner.  There is something in me that wants to tell this kid to grow up.  He's 13, but he acts like a nine year  old."

With all my heart, I love children and young people.  Only one time have I ever met children and taken an immediate dislike to them.   About 40 years ago, I was single and dating, and met a young lady who seemed in every respect to be just right.  When I went to pick her up for our first date, I met her two young boys.  The boys did nothing to make me feel this way; but, I felt a strong dislike for those two boys.  And, to this day, I cannot explain it.  Dory and I have talked about it and cannot understand.  I love young people --  but, my negative feelings about her two boys made me never date her again.  As I said, to this day I do not understand.  At that time I was not a Christian.  Maybe if I had been, I could have worked through the problem.

You tell me, "But every time this kid comes for a lesson, every word that comes out of my mouth is patient and encouraging.  I even try to make small talk with him so he will relax and learn to trust me.  I think he has a bad home life, and if he can find an adult he can trust, maybe he will feel a bit more secure.  It is not ME who is saying kind things to this kid.  I truly can't stand him, and a few times after he left I have asked myself why I was so nice instead of telling him he should take up a different instrument.  I KNOW why though.  Because I start every day with a prayer that God will use me today, to do His will.  And it must be His will that I help this kid."

I agree with you completely.  God knows all about that boy -- and it seems to me that God has brought this child who needs a strong, loving person in his life, to such a person.  That person obviously is you.  Your approach is right on track -- pray daily about the boy and leave the results to God.  I believe that, by keeping this boy in prayer, God's will can be done -- and you will know when it is right to keep teaching the boy -- and when it is right to cut him loose.

And, in closing, you are right on, "So, as I think we have talked about before, each of us has a PERSONAL commission from God.   Yours is different from mine, and mine is different from somebody else's.  There is a LOT of work to go around, and I think He uses each of us according to the talents he has given us for that purpose.  I'll get back to the other points you raised later, OK?"

So true, as we are told in 1 Corinthians 12:12-27, "For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of  the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. . . Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it."

As this passage explains, we are many and diverse members of the body of Christ, each with its own function -- and, together, all making up the body of Christ, the Christian church.

You are my Christian sister and I praise God for you and for the work you are doing in His name.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Ok, Bill. You chastised O No, called her your “Christian sister”, you question if she’s even doing God’s will, you let her know how wrong she is to believe that it’s ok for a homosexual to become a pastor. Then after that & much more, you call her your Christian sister again, then you do a complete 360 degree turn & believe she’s doing work in God’s name.

Gosh, Bill, I hope you don’t confuse yourself like this very often. Have you seen a doctor about possibly having dementia?

quote:   Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

So either a hunger induced hallucination or God changed his mind.  Which?


Hi Crusty,

 

You tell us that you are on speaking terms with God.  You tell us. What does that Scripture passage mean?

 

But, I might suggest that you either go out and buy or borrow a Bible -- or dig out the old one you have buried in some box -- and study this passage first.

 

Crusty, I will admit that before I became a believer and spent 24 years studying the Bible -- I knew very little of the Bible.  Are you honest enough to admit that you have that same problem today?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

What does the Bible say about the homosexual lifestyle?


It is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22); it is a detestable act (Leviticus 20:13); it is a degrading passion (Romans 1:26); it is unnatural (Romans 1:26); it is committing indecent acts (Romans 1:27); it is contrary to sound teaching (1 Timothy 1:10); and, those who live this lifestyle are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

 

God said it!  Which part of these Scripture verses can you or I say is wrong?  So, how can we say that the homosexual lifestyle is not displeasing to God?  And, if it it is displeasing to God, should not Christians be trying to bring our erring Friends, who are in this lifestyle, into the Light of God's Word?

 

__________________

Bill, do you each pork and shellfish?  Yes or no.  God said it, which part of those scriptures can you say is wrong?   How can you still eat pork? 

____

Your old, silly,shallow, ignorant argument about pork and shellfish just does not cut it, Crusty, and every time you or others invoke those old provisions from the Levitical law, you disclose your abysmally incompetent understanding of scripture.  It is as plain as day from the Bible itself that those dietary laws and many other provisions of the Levitical law do not apply to Christians.  Any competent--and perhaps even some incompetent--Bible scholar understands this, since it has been made profoundly plain in numerous places in the new Testament. See, for example, Acts 10:9-16 and Acts 11:1-10.

 

This matter has been discussed many times on this forum, but you and other scoffers keep dishonestly ignoring it, reflecting your lack of integrity in argumentation.  It makes you look  intellectually sloppy every time you submit that old, wrongheaded, irrational, discredited kind of "argument." Now go stand in the corner for 15 minutes and go to bed without your supper.

Last edited by Contendah
Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

What does the Bible say about the homosexual lifestyle?


It is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22); it is a detestable act (Leviticus 20:13); it is a degrading passion (Romans 1:26); it is unnatural (Romans 1:26); it is committing indecent acts (Romans 1:27); it is contrary to sound teaching (1 Timothy 1:10); and, those who live this lifestyle are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

 

God said it!  Which part of these Scripture verses can you or I say is wrong?  So, how can we say that the homosexual lifestyle is not displeasing to God?  And, if it it is displeasing to God, should not Christians be trying to bring our erring Friends, who are in this lifestyle, into the Light of God's Word?

 

__________________

Bill, do you each pork and shellfish?  Yes or no.  God said it, which part of those scriptures can you say is wrong?   How can you still eat pork? 

____

Your old, silly,shallow, ignorant argument about pork and shellfish just does not cut it, Crusty, and every time you or others invoke those old provisions from the Levitical law, you disclose your abysmally incompetent understanding of scripture.  It is as plain as day from the Bible itself that those dietary laws and many other provisions of the Levitical law do not apply to Christians.  Any competent--and perhaps even some incompetent--Bible scholar understands this, since it has been made profoundly plain in numerous places in the new Testament. See, for example, Acts 10:9-16 and Acts 11:1-10.

 

This matter has been discussed many times on this forum, but you and other scoffers keep dishonestly ignoring it, reflecting your lack of integrity in argumentation.  It makes you look  intellectually sloppy every time you submit that old, wrongheaded, irrational, discredited kind of "argument." Now go stand in the corner for 15 minutes and go to bed without your supper.

_____________

Good, I'm glad you agree that Leviticus is generally full of crap, and that includes everything he says.  So, either embrace it, stop quoting it, or admit that the Bible has contradictions.  Bill can't use it for his "I hate homosexuals" arguments any longer. 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

So either a hunger induced hallucination or God changed his mind.  Which?


Hi Crusty,

 

You tell us that you are on speaking terms with God.  You tell us. What does that Scripture passage mean?

 

But, I might suggest that you either go out and buy or borrow a Bible -- or dig out the old one you have buried in some box -- and study this passage first.

 

Crusty, I will admit that before I became a believer and spent 24 years studying the Bible -- I knew very little of the Bible.  Are you honest enough to admit that you have that same problem today?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

____________

I admit that I don't read and reread the Bible until I have dreamed up convoluted explanations to fit a twisted world view as you have, Bill.  So, once again, Bill - is this a hunger induced hallucination or God changing his mind?  I'll let you pick.  And you still haven't answered my pork question - still eat pork, or is Leviticus irrelevant? 

 

You say you have a relationship with God, but what you worship, and hold above God's message, is the Bible and your distorted take on it.

Last edited by CrustyMac

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