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Hi to all my Forum Friends,

In the Religion Forum discussion I began titled "Creation/Evolution In Schools? -- Should We Let The Kids Decide?" -- I seem to have drawn the ire of a few of my atheist Friends.

My new Forum Friend who has recently evolved (no pun intended) into Frog tells me, "The point is since I haven't been here long and I have read your point of view many times (really?), don't you think everyone else (has) got what you mean by now and can choose what they want for their own lives?"

Now, that is interesting.  Frog tells me she has not been on the Religion Forum long -- yet, is already a Hall Of Famer!  Wow, she must have stayed up day and night, writing, to have attained the level of Hall Of Famer so quickly.  Or, could this claim to be a new Religion Forum member just be more atheist misinformation?

For Friends not familiar with the TimesDaily Forum rating scheme; we all began as the "New Kid On The Block" and, over several years, move up the scale to higher ratings -- "Hall Of Famer" being the second highest.  Since I have been writing on the Religion Forum for five years -- I, like my Friend, Joy, and a couple of others -- have moved to the highest level, "Old Faithful."  Not really sure I like  being called "Old" -- but, I guess I can live with it.

And, Frog asks, "Has anyone here actually become closer to God or converted, accepted, been saved, or anything similar after reading all the insults and demands, cajoling, and dismissals of their choices?  Just curious...anyone?"

Of course, she is referring to my writings.

Then, my reliable, very dependable Friend, Chick, jumps into the arena telling Frog, "Bill has always stated that his mission here is to reach those that read this forum, not the ones that post.
Since you haven't been here long (really?), are you possibly one of those he was trying to reach?   I've often asked Bill if his art of persuasion has reached anyone yet, but he refuses to  answer.  My guess is that those that "just read" this forum, find him as foolish as the majority of us do."

Many years ago, when I was younger and not yet a Christian; it would have boosted my ego to have two ladies who call themselves Frog and Chick pay such close attention to me -- even though the names do remind us of Hell's Angels biker chicks.   But, now I get even more excited over their attention -- for, they give me opportunities to share the Word of God with our Forum Friends.

So, my Lady Friends, the beauty of working for God is that one doesn't have to keep an eye on the scoreboard -- just keep playing the game to the best of one's God-given abilities.   That is what I do.  I just keep sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- and leave the results to the Holy Spirit.

You see, Chick/Frog, neither Bill Gray nor any other Christian can save a person -- only the Holy Spirit can do that.  However, our task is to help prepare folks for the work the Holy Spirit will do in them,   In other words, we point them toward Jesus Christ and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

It is very similar to preparing a garden site.  We till the soil, work to remove all the debris and rocks, and when it is ready, we begin to plant seeds.   After that, we may do some weeding and watering -- but, we cannot make that seed grow into a beautiful plant; only God can do that.  And, that is where God, the Holy Spirit, comes into the picture.  He takes the work we Christians have begun -- and nurtures it with divine love and guidance.  Gradually, He brings that plant to life, spiritual life in Jesus Christ.  Don't you just love the teamwork?

We Christians who share the Gospel are very much like the a missionary to the Kiowa Indians in the 1800s, a woman named Miss Reside.  Living with the Indians long enough for them to know what it meant to be a Christian, they began calling her "Aim Day Co."

Explaining the significance of this name, Chief Bigtree said, "When we Kiowas see anyone on the wrong trail, we call out, 'Aim day co,' which means 'Turn this way.'   Our sister came to us from a far land and found us on the wrong path and in great danger.  She stood and called to us and said, 'Turn this way.'   Then she showed us the Jesus road.  God bless Miss Aim Day Co."

No story better explains Christian evangelism that the one written by Ralph L. Woods in The Guideposts Treasury of Faith:


A GENUINE CHRISTIAN

One evening during the latter part of his life in the late 1800s, John Ruskin, an artist, scientist, poet, and philosopher -- sat at a window in his home watching a lamplighter, with torch in hand, ignite the street lamps on a distant hill.  Since it was dark the lamplighter himself could not be seen, but his progress up the hill could be observed as successive lamps were lighted.

After a few minutes Ruskin turned to a friend and said, “That illustrates what I mean by a genuine Christian.  You may not know him or ever see him, but his way has been marked by the lights he leaves burning.”

 

And, that, my Friends, is my goal in life -- to leave as many lights as possible burning for the Lord.  Have I been successful?  I don't know, for at this time I cannot see the scoreboard.  Would I want to know if my work has led some folks closer to the Lord?  Yes, I suppose that would be encouraging to me.

I will admit that sitting alone in my office, writing, without knowing if I have reached at least one person in a positive way for the Lord can, at times, be discouraging.  Like anyone who continually does a task, I do sometimes experience burnout.  And, in my weak, frail human tent, an occasional "Atta boy!" or a pat on the back -- does feel good.  Yet, that is only satisfying my weak human  nature; not my spiritual nature.  At times like that, I have to remind myself that I am not doing this for me -- I am doing it for my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

In the mid-1990s, I was writing and mailing my snail-mail Christian newsletter "The Good News."   At that time I was working for a computer integration company, doing telephone sales.  One Friday, I was talking on the phone with a client in Houston.  Since it was getting late, I told him that I could help him for a while longer; but, then I had to leave to go to Bible study.  He was excited that I am a Christian and this led to me telling him about my Christian newsletter.

He asked to be on my mail list for the newsletter and a week later, I mailed it out.  The next week, he and I were talking and he told me, "Bill, your newsletter came -- just in time."  Since others were in my office, I could not ask what he meant by, "just in time" --  and, because I never had a chance to talk with him again before leaving the company, I never did find out.  I can only assume that he had a need, obviously a strong need, and something I had written addressed that need.  That is God working!

Would I have liked to have known more?  Sure, my human ego was saying, "Oh boy, what did I do right?"   But, God was telling me,  "You have no need to know.  Just be encouraged that your writing did help this man."

Last year, a Mississippi Friend in my Friend Ministry mailing sent me an e-mail telling me that, even though he had been a Christian for a long time -- he had drifted away.  He told me that my Friends Ministry writings helped him draw close to the Lord once more.   My Friends, even if I write for another thirty years and never have another positive feedback -- that one man made it all worthwhile.   At least I can know that I have helped just one person.

And, my Christian Friends, that should always be our goal in evangelism -- to help just one more soul draw closer to our Lord.   Praise God I have reached that plateau!   But, I am not stopping!  That just makes me want to write more.

So, Chick/Frog, when you ask, "Has anyone here actually become closer to God" because of my writings -- I cannot answer that for you.  It is not my job to know that statistic.  My job is to just keep sowing seeds of salvation and pray that some fall into fertile soil.  Possibly, I have not found the fertile soil within your souls yet; but, I can keep sowing and pray that even one little seed will find that small patch of fertile soil within you, which I know is in every person.

How do I know that everyone, you included, have at least a small patch of fertile soil within your souls?

"For when Gentiles who do not have the law do instinctively the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing  or else defending them, on the day when, according to my Gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus" (Romans 2:14-16).

So, no one has an excuse for denying God.  Those who deny God have made a purposeful, deliberate choice to deny Him -- and, therefore, have made a deliberate choice to spend eternity away from the presence of God.  The only eternal home away from the presence of God -- is hell.

Yet, because I know that you, and everyone, has His Word written in your hearts -- I will keep sowing seeds of salvation and continue sending them toward my atheist and other non-believing Friends.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Friends Chrisian Fish

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quote:    Originally Posted by unclegus:

 Does this mean you believe in evolution? 


Hi Gus,

 

Absolutely, I believe in evolution -- Micro Evolution, i.e., adaptation to environmental and dietary changes which occurred over many thousands of years -- but, not millions or billions of years.

 

However, I have never seen a single iota of evidence for Macro Evolution, i.e. Darwinian Evolution.

 

I keep searching and searching for that elusive old "missing link" fossil -- and can only assume that old Charley Darwin hid it somewhere and, now that he has died, no one can find it.   They have found millions of fossils, available in museums around the world.  But, that darn old "missing link" fossil just keeps eluding us.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi to all my Forum Friends,
How do I know that everyone, you included, have at least a small patch of fertile soil within your souls?
Bill


          *****************************************************

Bill, when are you going to get that small patch of fertile soil within your own soul?

 

Matthew says you're to heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, & cast out demons. Tell us how that's working for you.

 

A Christian is not called to argue or debate anyone into heaven but, of course, you're not a Christian.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
 
I keep searching and searching for that elusive old "missing link" fossil -- and can only assume that old Charley Darwin hid it somewhere and, now that he has died, no one can find it.   They have found millions of fossils, available in museums around the world.  But, that darn old "missing link" fossil just keeps eluding us.
 
===

 

Where are you searching??

 

Again with the tired, old "no missing link" canard from Bill. I guess I'll keep bringing these links out as long as Bill keeps lying for Jesus.

As poor as was the known fossil record at the time of Darwin's The Origin Of Species, the "no missing link" (aka transitional fossils) claim was legitimate for ONLY two years after publication. The discovery of Archaeopteryx lithographica in 1861 (I believe 9 other Archeopteryx have been discovered since) alone put the questions about common descent to bed.

"Missing links" haven't been an issue for anyone (except liars for Jesus/Allah, etc.) for 150 years! Also note that since this is not still 1859, the common descent of biological species doesn't rest on fossil evidence alone. Genetics, geology, developmental biology, paleoanthropology, biogeography, etc. also provide independent and supporting evidence for common ancestors. As they say, 'the answers are out there'. One would have to be blind not to see them.

Below is a select and partial list of "missing links":

Taxonomy, Transitional Forms, and the Fossil Record by Keith B. Miller
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Miller.html

Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ by Kathleen Hunt
(a partial list of known transitions from the vertebrate fossil record. Concentrating exclusively on groups that left living descendants & ignoring the hundreds of other groups and side-branches that died out. Also skipping entire groups of vertebrates [most notably the dinosaurs and modern fish] in order to emphasize mammals)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

PART 1 has FISHES to FIRST MAMMALS & BIRDS:
Transitions from primitive fish to sharks, skates, rays
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...nal/part1a.html#fish
Transitions from primitive fish to bony fish
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...nal/part1a.html#bony
Transition from fishes to first amphibians
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...al/part1a.html#amph1
Transitions among amphibians
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...al/part1a.html#amph2
Transition from amphibians to first reptiles
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...al/part1b.html#rept1
Transitions among reptiles
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...al/part1b.html#rept2
Transition from reptiles to first mammals (long)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...nal/part1b.html#mamm
Transition from reptiles to first birds
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...nal/part1b.html#bird

PART 2 has TRANSITIONS AMONG MAMMALS:
Primates
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq.../part2a.html#primate
Bats
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...onal/part2a.html#bat
Carnivores
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...nal/part2a.html#carn
Rodents
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...onal/part2a.html#rod
Lagomorphs (rabbits & hares)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...onal/part2b.html#lag
Condylarths (first hoofed animals)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...nal/part2b.html#cond
Cetaceans (whales & dolphins)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...nal/part2b.html#ceta
Perissodactyls (horses, rhinos, tapirs)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...nal/part2b.html#peri
Elephants
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...al/part2b.html#eleph
Sirenians (dugongs & manatees)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...al/part2b.html#siren
Artiodactyls (pigs, hippos, deer, giraffes, cows, etc.)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...nal/part2c.html#arti
Species transitions from other miscellaneous mammal groups
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...nal/part2c.html#misc

As is always demonstrated on this forum, those who reject the scientific fact of Evolution always reference either a severe misunderstanding of, or purposeful misinformation about what Evolution actually is. The Bill Gray's of the world can't really deny something that is actually explainable, demonstrable, testable and readily available, so instead they rely on and hope for the audience's ignorance to get away with their lies or otherwise just use unscientific straw-man caricatures to "attack" a problem that doesn't actually exist. This is all that theists in denial of Evolution have in their ****nal. It's an embarrassment that any of this is still in doubt to anyone a century and a half after the fact.

Explaining the significance of this name, Chief Bigtree said, "When we Kiowas see anyone on the wrong trail, we call out, 'Aim day co,' which means 'Turn this way.'   Our sister came to us from a far land and found us on the wrong path and in great danger.  She stood and called to us and said, 'Turn this way.'   Then she showed us the Jesus road.  God bless Miss Aim Day Co."

No story better explains Christian evangelism that the one written by Ralph L. Woods in The Guideposts Treasury of Faith:


_______________________

Bill, and this writer, seem to forget the rest of the history of Native Americans.  I wonder how many are still following the white man's god.

This image released by the journal Science shows the right hand skeleton of the adult female Australopithecus sediba against a modern human hand. A detailed analysis of 2 million-year-old bones found

 

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/b...photo-142254635.html

 

 

This image released by the journal Science shows Lee R. Berger of the University of Witwatersrand in South Africa holding the cranium of Australopithecus sediba. A detailed analysis of 2 million-year-old bones found in South Africa offers the most powerful case so far in identifying the transitional figure that came before modern humans, findings some are calling a potential game-changer in understanding evolution.

Related article:

http://news.yahoo.com/game-cha...bones-140125430.html

 

 This image released by the journal Science shows Lee R. Berger of the University of Witwatersrand in South Africa holding the cranium of Australopithecus sediba. A detailed analysis of 2 million-year-old bones found in South Africa offers the most powerful case so far in identifying the transitional figure that came before modern humans, findings some are calling a potential game-changer in understanding evolution. [AP Photo/Courtesy of Lee Berger and the University of Witwatersrand)

Last edited by Bestworking

Wul best, it looks jus like you. The missing link has been found. It’s so beautiful.

I’ll bet you are bawling like deep when ada showed up a while back.

He was out in the streets flailing himself with a scourge in sackcloth and ashes.

He was somewhat taken aback though when I showed him she was fabricated twenty something years earlier but hey, deep had already bought a ring and invitations sent out.

What do you know about anthropology? I’ll just bet nothing.

A, I don't think you can reach people like Ok/Ramm or Bill. No matter how much information they have they will never believe anything but a magic man poofed humans into existence just as we are today. Every animal, tree, flower, fish. Just Poof!

 

Thanks for the links. Maybe there are some here that will actually take the time to educate themselves on the subject. Not Bill or Ramm of course. They love to wallow in their ignorance and seem quite proud of it.

 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Not only are they proud of it they want it taught to children. All the stuff their god made, where is it? Where are the cavemen? Dinosaurs? Why did he make things only to let them go extinct? He's supposed to be so perfect, his creations so perfect, where are they?

__________________

Do you really want them to explain their convoluted thoughts on the subject?   The steps they go through leave them dizzy and incapable of logical thought.  Just look at the AiG website. 

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Not only are they proud of it they want it taught to children. All the stuff their god made, where is it? Where are the cavemen? Dinosaurs? Why did he make things only to let them go extinct? He's supposed to be so perfect, his creations so perfect, where are they?

__________________

Do you really want them to explain their convoluted thoughts on the subject?   The steps they go through leave them dizzy and incapable of logical thought.  Just look at the AiG website. 

---------------------------------------

Crust, what exactly are you saying? Explain what you mean not definable in under 32 words.

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Maggie, for someone who spends time listening to Robert Sapolsky, you sure haven't soaked any of it up.  If that doesn't answer your question, please rephrase it in understandable English.

---------------------------

O contraire I hang on every word he says. He is one of my heroes and one of the greatest scientists the world has ever known. He knows I don’t agree with his atheism but that doesn’t interfere with his research. I’m glad you listened to him. Keep up the good work. When all is said and done if I have done nothing else on this forum I have at least encouraged the majority of you otherwise idiots that there are sources of intellect other than corrupted magazine articles and TV. I suggest you listen to every word he says or writes, even his silly speech denying a belief in God. Crust I have always thought of you as a cut above some of these crackpots on but here lately you have disappointed me and that should be of concern for you.

My only defense is that Bill and his ilk keep trying to drag me into the third century.  That you have associated yourself with the young-earthers  is of concern to me.  Having listened to as much of Saplosky as you say, how do you continue as an anti-evolutionary, young-earther?  Talk about disappointing, it makes all your previous satire crumble into insanity.

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

A, I don't think you can reach people like Ok/Ramm or Bill. No matter how much information they have they will never believe anything but a magic man poofed humans into existence just as we are today. Every animal, tree, flower, fish. Just Poof!

 

Thanks for the links. Maybe there are some here that will actually take the time to educate themselves on the subject. Not Bill or Ramm of course. They love to wallow in their ignorance and seem quite proud of it.

 

DA,

Yeah. I don't respond to reach the Bill Grays of the world because they are too far gone or "lost/blind" as they like to call us. I try to respond to their cowardly and outright lies whenever I can to counter the blatant untruths and purposeful ignorance about science. There are people on the sidelines of the arguments that haven't been exposed to information, will not seek it out and will base their conclusions on what is or isn't presented to them. I guess it's to them that I (and others) write. Since the Bill Grays of the world are cowards who shamelessly run away from discussion and instead try to ply the same tripe over and over in newer places with the hope that no one will finally call them on it, I guess it's up to us to make sure that the repeated lies and ignorance are met with a response every time, everywhere they go.

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

My only defense is that Bill and his ilk keep trying to drag me into the third century.  That you have associated yourself with the young-earthers  is of concern to me.  Having listened to as much of Saplosky as you say, how do you continue as an anti-evolutionary, young-earther?  Talk about disappointing, it makes all your previous satire crumble into insanity.

Bingo.

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

A, I don't think you can reach people like Ok/Ramm or Bill. No matter how much information they have they will never believe anything but a magic man poofed humans into existence just as we are today. Every animal, tree, flower, fish. Just Poof!

 

Thanks for the links. Maybe there are some here that will actually take the time to educate themselves on the subject. Not Bill or Ramm of course. They love to wallow in their ignorance and seem quite proud of it.

 

DA,

Yeah. I don't respond to reach the Bill Grays of the world because they are too far gone or "lost/blind" as they like to call us. I try to respond to their cowardly and outright lies whenever I can to counter the blatant untruths and purposeful ignorance about science. There are people on the sidelines of the arguments that haven't been exposed to information, will not seek it out and will base their conclusions on what is or isn't presented to them. I guess it's to them that I (and others) write. Since the Bill Grays of the world are cowards who shamelessly run away from discussion and instead try to ply the same tripe over and over in newer places with the hope that no one will finally call them on it, I guess it's up to us to make sure that the repeated lies and ignorance are met with a response every time, everywhere they go.

------------------------------------

shorty what is an atheist on a waiting list as referred to on your "meetup" site.

.

64 Atheists on Atheists waiting list

… near Florence, AL (Not near Florence?)

Get an alert email when new Meetup Groups like this start near you.

Hold on just a second…

Ole younoi don’t have much of a Christmas list on the meetup site . But then again he doesn’t believe in Santy Clause.

 

Now yall be honest, would y'all leave your kids with anybody who would get on a publick website and post such a wishlist as some of those screwballs have? huh? really!! These people are for real now i tell you and Adot is the head ghoul. I never. and ole jen is at the top of the heap. Pup I better not catch yo mug on there. I'll have you deported to Sheffield or somewhere. I wish I could capture a few of them primates, I wouldput them in the Nawth AlaBAMA State Fair.

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