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Well, Heck!

b50mb50mOld Faithful
Bill,
Can you disprove his interpretation of the scriptures or are you just going to bypass that and condemn the source?

I would be willing to guess that Satan has a very good understanding of the Bible as well. Perhaps even an authority on it. Would you deny his knowledge because he is Satan?
leoleoHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
quote:
Ok so to get all this all I have to do is just keep trying my best to be a good human being and help my fellow man, AND believe in god.....................for the guitars I might just do it! Smiler


Wait just a minute.... in heaven, are we issued a 1957 Les Paul in bird's eye maple with humbucker pickups and super slinky strings?

I might have been wrong.


Yes my son and a 1965 Fender vibrolux to play it through. So stay nice.
thenagelthenagelPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
quote:
BJBG, Jank, others.. please.....

What did I do? I haven't said a word to riggs.

I will now, though.

Riggs, welcome to the forum. We disagree. I hope you'll excuse me if I still regard you as human.


you didn't do anyhting Smiler
i just wanted to point this guy out and ask you to read first, before you reacted is tho he were bill grey spouting the bible at people.

not that i assumed you would, but if you';d come from a post with bill being typical bill, i was afraid they'd get lumped together.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
you didn't do anyhting (sic) i just wanted to point this guy out and ask you to read first, before you reacted is tho (sic) he were bill grey (sic) spouting the bible at people.

not that i assumed you would, but if you';d (sic) come from a post with bill being typical bill, i was afraid they'd get lumped together.

Hi Nagel,

No worry about that. Our new Friend, GD, and I worship in totally different kinds of church. To the best I can ascertain, he must worship in a Herbert W. Armstrong church, a Unitarian Universalist church, or a Jehovah's Witnesses church. And, those, I would definitely not visit. So, you and he can rest in peace.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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ButtercupButtercupPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
Crap! I get thru all 4 pages, and forget what the thread was about...so I don't have a comment!

Oh well...LEGALIZE MARIJUANA!


I think I inadvertantly high-jacked this thread. But I think in my heaven it is already legal.


You want heaven? It's the Allman Brothers and my favorite song from them:

Link

(I'm now guilty too, leo.) Big Grin
leoleoHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
Crap! I get thru all 4 pages, and forget what the thread was about...so I don't have a comment!

Oh well...LEGALIZE MARIJUANA!


I think I inadvertantly high-jacked this thread. But I think in my heaven it is already legal.


You want heaven? It's the Allman Brothers and my favorite song from them:

Link

(I'm now guilty too, leo.) Big Grin


The only thing you're guilty of is having EXCELLENT taste in music. I suggest we move this conversation to a more appropiate place in misc. and get out of the religeous forum. I'm not sure God shares the same enthusiasm for guitars as we do..............Nah, sure he does, he's God isn't he?
ButtercupButtercupPost Master
You're right, leo. Just having a little fun. But I don't want to be responsible for giving someone a heart attack in Religion.

Why don't you start a music discussion thread in Misc. and I'll jump in? Or if you'd like to post something, there's an "It's Saturday Night" thread over there.

(And I'm certain God has great taste in music AND a sense of humor...if I'm made in His image he does.)
leoleoHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
You're right, leo. Just having a little fun. But I don't want to be responsible for giving someone a heart attack in Religion.

Why don't you start a music discussion thread in Misc. and I'll jump in? Or if you'd like to post something, there's an "It's Saturday Night" thread over there.

(And I'm certain God has great taste in music AND a sense of humor...if I'm made in His image he does.)


I have started it in misc. Check out guitar lovers.
gdriggsgdriggsHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
Gdriggs, you are like a breath of fresh air. I think what will probably happen with Bill is that he will just ignore this thread. He won't EVER admit he is wrong about anything, so he'll just pretend you and your posts don't exist. I think he will also be jealous that someone else can write these long posts, using scripture to back what you say. And although you posted such a long one, I read every word, and I agree with what you said. Looks like a lot of others did too, and Bill will HATE that! Maybe he can learn something from you, not only about the Bible, but also how to get your point across without seeming like a holier-than-thou, pedantic, and POLITICAL person.

Thank you. I look forward to more of your posts.


Thanks O No!, I appreciate it, but all the glory is God's and God's alone. It was not my intent to try to offend Mr.Gray if I did, I simply wanted to bring good news, which in itself has a tendency to offend.

quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn
Gdriggs,

You have made the atheist dream come true. lol Big Grin

Pre and extramarital sex don’t count Smiler and pouring whiskey into one’s head while smoking pot Eeker can be done with assurance that “ Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience”. Muhahaha No punishment involved.

I wonder if you are right???? hmmmm? Roll Eyes

Is this possibly a precursor to a no punishment society.


The means by which the salvation of all will be accomplished is judgment, and because God is a fair and righteous Judge, He will assuredly make sure the punishment fits the crime, and it wont be no walk in the park.

quote:
Posted by b50m

Welcome gdriggs.

You have proved the point so well of reading the scriptures for yourself in many different versions of the Bible to actually get the meaning.

I do hope the ones turned off by the 'Bible thumping' Christians will at least give it one more look.

Thank you.


Your very welcome.

There was a time when I thought the King James Version was the only translation I could trust, and that it was perfect and without error, never realizing it was an idol of my heart to believe such a thing about a book. It was like a god to me, until it was revealed to me that it has undergone tens of thousands of corrections since the first KJV of 1611, most of them small errors, but a few really big ones. What was even more of shocker was what the very translators themselves said in that first KJV, which was something to the effect like that they had to guess at times the meaning of what was written, and they even admit it wasn't perfect and that they advise we use more than one translation. Anyone with an original 1611 KJV can read this "disclaimer" immediately after the preface of that version. They no longer put that "disclaimer" in the later versions, now claiming they are "perfect". You really cannot blame the translators too much, because it is impossible to get word for word translation from one language to another, and they have the added difficulty of translating something written thousands of years ago. Anyway I still prefer the KJV, but I definitely supplement it with other translations, as that really helps. It's not really that bad of a translation, as long as you know words like "hell" and "for ever and ever" were never ever part of the original Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. To make things worse the translators have given three different definitions to the word "hell". So when you come across that word you really need to look up which one it is talking about using a Greek or Hebrew dictionary.

I could be wrong, but I think the reason people get turned off by "bible thumping" Christians is because the Christian leaders have grossly misrepresented, and horribly characterized God as a monster that is just too weak to save all humanity, so He has no choice but to send them to hell "for ever and ever" and they (most Christians) self righteously call that fair. I think Jesus said it best about them.

Mat 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. For you do not go in yourselves, and when others are going in, you stop them.
Mat 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cross sea and land to make a single convert, and you make the new convert twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

Mat 23:28 So you also on the outside look righteous to others, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

The scribes and pharisees of Jesus' day are the equivalents to our modern day pastors, preachers and priests. As teachers of the law they will be held highly accountable and receive more stripes than most.

quote:
Posted by thenagel
gdriggs has said several things i wish i had the knowdledge to say. i don't "know" that he's right, but look upon him, for now, the light side of the (biblical) force.

he's said several of the things i feel, but don't have the words and scripture to express fully.


There is nothing I have that I did not obtain through the Spirit. Do not look upon me for anything, as I'm liable to start charging ten percent! Big Grin Haha just kidding. Seriously though, I'm just a human man with human imperfections just like everyone else. So look upon Jesus, the way the life and the Truth. Wink

Knowledge and wisdom are nothing without love, you can know the Scriptures inside and out, but without love it's worthless.

1Co 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

If you are genuinely willing to learn the deep things of God, you must be willing to really study, dig deep, and search for that hidden treasure and you will be rewarded.

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

When I say study, I dont mean just causally read over the words, but pay very close attention to all the words, look up definitions, compare or match Scriptures, but most importantly ask for understanding, repent and believe what you are reading. Repentance is a major door to understanding. Dont believe everything people tell you, test the spirits by earnest studying to see if they are true. The Scriptures do not say in vain to study...

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

'Study'
G4704
σπουδάζω
spoudazō
spoo-dad'-zo
From G4710; to use speed, that is, to make effort, be prompt or earnest: - do (give) diligence, be diligent (forward), endeavour, labour, study.

...if all it took was a casual reading.

quote:
Posted by Bill Gray
HI GD,

I am going to take a wild guess -- and say that you are with one of the Herbert W. Armstrong churches -- or you are with the Universalist Unitarian church -- or, possibly, with the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Regardless, following a man like Smith is a losing proposition.

Personally, I would not listen to ANY Bible teacher who will not tell us WHAT he believes, WHERE he goes to church -- or if he EVEN GOES to church.


You seem to put a lot of emphasis on following men, made evident by the importance you place on their interpretation of Scripture. Were any of those commentators crucified for you? Did any of these people you say I follow die for me on the cross? You should know better. There is only one church we need to be concerned with, the church of the living God, and not out of any church building made by hands.

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

Going to a church building does not make you a Christian any more than going to a garage makes you a car. God does not live in any church building, but He can and He does dwell in us.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Jesus never went to a temple to worship, so why should I? Whenever He went to a temple or synagogue to teach, those listening almost always ran Him off, and even tried to throw Him down a cliff headlong. I cant imagine what they would try to do to Him nowadays if He were to go to a church building to teach. Whenever Jesus wanted to worship and pray, He almost always went somewhere alone, like in a mountain.

Since you are so interested WHERE Mr. Smith goes to church, I'll let him tell you. Here is a short excerpt from one of Mr. Smiths papers.

The Depth of Satan - Who is Antipas?
[The depth of Satan and the church of God]

TO WHICH CHURCH DO I BELONG?

When asked, "Ray, which church do you attend, what denomination do you belong to?" I always give them the same answer as I will now give you. I tell them that I am not a member of, neither do I attend any institutionalized church of men and that includes all the Churches of Christendom.

I am a member of: "The Body of Christ—The Church of the Living God."

Yet if I were invited to any church to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I would gladly go! I do not, however, hold my breath waiting for such invitations. How I would love to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ right behind these televangelists after they have delivered their Sunday message.

The Church is an assembly of "called out" people. Within the Church there are then, the ‘called’ and the ‘chosen’—the ‘invited’ and the ‘selected.’ Remember my analogy of a screen test—many are called to try out, but only the few are chosen to actually perform.

The giant difference between the physically called of God and the spiritually Chosen of God is that the first are immature babes, and the second are spiritually mature sons—having the mind of Christ. The physical Church knows Christ only "after the flesh." The carnal believe that Jesus Christ was "crucified" for them—which is true. But the mature know by experience that, "I am crucified WITH Christ." The carnal-minded Christians "will be saved," but they will not be in the first resurrection, nor will they reign with Jesus Christ as the manifest sons and daughters of God in the Kingdom of God throughout the oncoming ages.

Our Apostle Paul did not teach in vain that,

"For if we would JUDGE OURSELVES, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (I Cor. 11:31-32).

This is the reality of the "overcomer." Anyone going through very severe trials, problems, tribulation, judgment, chastening, and scourging is considered by the Church to be a gross sinner under a curse. Yet what does God’s Word tell us:

"For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS, and SCOURGES every son whom He receives" (Heb. 12:6).

Do we think this Scripture lies? If God calls you to be a son, then He will SCOURGE you. There are absolutely no exceptions and there is absolutely no way around these Scriptures. I have heard professing Christians of 70 years confess that they never suffered persecution a day in their life. One remarked how lucky we are to live at this time and in this country where people no longer persecute Christians. Unbelievable.

quote:
Posted by Bill Gray
Personally, I would not listen to ANY Bible teacher who will not tell us WHAT he believes, WHERE he goes to church -- or if he EVEN GOES to church.


Now will you listen?

quote:
Posted by Bill Gray
You know absolutely nothing about this man except what he has written on the internet -- yet, you declare him right and all other Bible teachers wrong. Now, that makes sense.


Actually I know him personally, through emails we have sent each other, and through phone conversation, and through the papers he has written, but most importantly through the unity of the same Spirit that we share. I know of no other teacher that loves the Lord Jesus as much as he does, and it is made evident by the incredible amount and quality of work he has done in exposing the un-scriptural doctrines of the Church while expounding the salvation of all mankind through the gospel (the good news) of our Lord Jesus Christ as it is written. There is no doubt in my mind he is one of the Elect of God, but you would never hear him say he is, because he also one of the most humble men I know, who gives all the glory to God. But just like Jesus he is not afraid to call the pharisees and scribes of our day hypocrites. If it wasn't for God working through this retired roofer named Ray Smith, I would have never understood the love God truly has for all His creation, and that He would never ever burn anyone for all eternity in a fiery pagan of a hole called hell. It was because of "all other bible teachers" that I used to believe in eternal torment, I mean I believed them all, but not no more, I can never be deceived by them again.

quote:
Posted by Jilly Boe Dob Gene
Riggs, welcome to the forum. We disagree. I hope you'll excuse me if I still regard you as human.


Err thanks for the welcome, I think?

Peace

gdriggs
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
Hi all,

Well, from the recent post by GD, one which, by the way, made even my posts look short -- I would say that we may have our old Friend, Al Williams, back with us. If you recall, Al came on the Forum last year copy/pasting long diatribes from his New Age bible, the Urantia Book.

When no one would listen to him; he started creating other posting names and dialoguing with himself. Over a short period - he had at least six posting names. And, he kept pushing his Universalist New Age religion.

When no one would buy it, he left. But, now, I have to wonder if our old Friend is not back again. He is not pushing the Urantia Book -- for that would be too obvious. But, now he is pushing the writings of a new leader, L. Ray Smith, a retired roofer who has put himself above all fellowship with Christians -- and declared that he wants nothing to do with Christianity. In other words, he is a religion unto himself.

But, he is still trying to sell the same old New Age Universalism -- hell does not exist, all will be saved, never listen to any Bible teacher except himself -- the retired roofer.

My Friends, the religion that GD is pushing, the religion his L. Ray Smith is pushing -- is not Christianity-- as he has declared. It is a mixture of New Age, Unitarian Universalist, Herbert W. Armstrong, and Jehovah's Witnesses. All I can say is -- beware! This is a dangerous mixture!

GD and his retired roofer are so above all Christians -- that they refuse to attend any church fellowship. Yet the Bible tells us we should be in Christian fellowship with like minded believers. L. Ray Smith tells us, and I have to assume this applies to our Friend, GD, aka, Al Williams, also,"Neither do I attend any institutionalized church of men and that includes all the Churches of Christendom."

I realize that our secular, atheist, agnostic, and vanilla-flavored non-believers will be standing on their chairs -- cheering!! For, this fits right in with the message they have tried to push on the Forum for a long time: No Bible, No God, No Jesus Christ -- only Darwin, Dawkins, Hitchens, et al. Yes, I am sure they are very pleased and have a hand full of rocks ready to throw at me for posting this.

But, my Christian Friends -- beware the teachings of this GD, aka, Al Williams. Yes, I know that he will deny this identity -- just as he vehemently denied all the other six posting names before -- until finally he broke down and for once was honest enough to admit what he had been doing. If Al Williams is not back with us -- he has been perfectly cloned.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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b50mb50mOld Faithful
Bill,
I believe you are completely wrong. Gdr has a completely differently writing style and approach from Al.
Why would Al change his belief? He was quite happy with his Urantia Book.

Gdr has only used Biblical scriptures.

I see the sin of envy rearing it's ugly head.

Bill, you are a bigger man than this to try to discount this man's beliefs because they don't follow your version. (And for the record, I have a dear friend who belongs to the JW faith and I consider a Christian).

I don't attend church every Sunday in a fellowship with 50 or more either. I don't have too. God will hear me just fine even if it's only me or me and a few friends.

Bill you are so hung up on being the only 'right' way, that you forgot that while narrow is the path, there are still different ways to get to it.
SK Sofa KingHall of Famer
quote:
Well, from the recent post by GD, one which, by the way, made even my posts look short -- I would say that we may have our old Friend, (somebody's real name), back with us.



What the hell is this obsession of yours with revealing true identities? Don't you think people have some right to privacy, Bill? You are the only one stupid enough to post your own name. You might regret that one day.

People can be violent. You may actually be physically hurting someone by "outing" them.

This has been reported to the mods. I hope they will do something about it.
b50mb50mOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Well, from the recent post by GD, one which, by the way, made even my posts look short -- I would say that we may have our old Friend, (somebody's real name), back with us.



What the hell is this obsession of yours with revealing true identities? Don't you think people have some right to privacy, Bill? You are the only one stupid enough to post your own name. You might regret that one day.

People can be violent. You may actually be physically hurting someone by "outing" them.

This has been reported to the mods. I hope they will do something about it.


Sofa,
That was his posting name.

Member Profile for alwilliams767
b50mb50mOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
gdr,
Don't worry about Billy Joe, he is a confirmed atheist who loves to torment Christians with questions of why and how and show me.
The only proof he will accept of God is Him appearing before BJ with a guitar, beer and naked women and telling him to have fun. Smiler



That might help.


Only help? Smiler
O No!O No!Old Faithful
Bill, I don't care WHO he is, he is backing every proposal he makes with scripture. And *I* don't attend any church regularly either. I DO however gather with Christian friends almost every day and share my joy in His love. Most churches nowadays are full of people jumping up and down, foaming at the mouth, and "Speaking in tongues". Even though the Bible clearly tells us that if someone in the crowd speaks in tongues, there will ALWAYS be someone there who can translate. And Jesus tells us it is better to pray all alone in a closet than to make a show of praying in front of others. I consider so many people who attend church as fakes, who pretend to speak in tongues, pray for show, and don't even consider the REAL reason they are there. You can accuse me of anything you want to, Bill. I KNOW where I stand with my Lord, and I love Him with all my heart. I don't have to prove anything to anybody. But I DO want to share my joy in Him with others. I believe the way I do that is non-offensive. I just bring Him up in conversation. For example, if someone asks how I came to live where I do, I tell them God brought me here, and I am SO happy. And if you're around me for any length of time it becomes very obvious that I am. And I ALWAYS give the credit to God. People then wonder if THEY can find this kind of happiness, and they start thinking about God. I have told so many people that it was when I stopped doing anything, and just let God do it, that my life turned around. In other words, it is by example that I share God's word. I even keep some extra Bibles with me so I can share scripture. I really WANT everyone to know Him, and to have this kind of joy.
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