well.....

quote:

It's Saturday night. Why are we doing this?

Well, we got home after being gone all day, watched the last of the Auburn game, now watching Alabama, checking e-mails, downloading pictures, putting up with dogs, unwinding a bit, and looking at the news and telling myself that I don't need a snack.

quote:

Sez Slim:
Your experiment with the dark room is much less certain. I have some evidence, your word, that someone is in the room. I have a lack of evidence in that I can't see or hear or smell him. It's a 50/50 proposition, nothing to bet one's life on. Either someone is there or not, and there's no way of knowing.

But god is not like that. The infinitesimal possibility of his existence does not give him 50/50 status. To say it does leads to the denial of all human reason and observation, and hence the stifling rejection of human knowledge that is nihilism.

But that is the gist of the arguements that go on here. Evidence for or against, there is simply no way for anyone to say they know.
I watch these with interest.
I think me telling you someone was in the room would be like the Christians bible. They would only have my word to go on. No proof that I was telling the truth. That would be what they call faith...I think.
On the other hand, if you didn't see, or hear anyone in the room, you might be of mind to doubt there was, but you would not know for certain...I could be lying.

quote:

It's Saturday night. Why are we doing this?

Because when I sat down here...there was a full bottle. Now there is half. I have doubts about standing up!

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

me, i don't care. religion or not.. you call it what you like. i'll call it what i like
sine we are no longer worrying about being polite and respectful, this could get interesting

Here's the "rub". A "christian" will tell you there is NO doubt, no questioning, they know with all their heart there IS a god. An atheist says the same about knowing there ISN'T a god and that's when a "christian" starts the doubletalk, and trying to "trick" an atheist into saying there is or "could be" a god. So get as impolite and disrespectful as you wish, and I will respond in kind. But understand, it does not make you look clever or smart, or make me inclined to believe in a god. It just shows how low a so called "christian" will go. You aren't interested in knowing an atheist as a person, you just want to insult and try to scare them with hell, and you can't for the life of you believe that we just don't believe in hell. You might as well tell us the "boogeyman" will get us.

where did i say i was a christian?

Yo.. People who have been here a while... when have i ever told some one they were going to hell?

have i ever told any one of the athiestic variety that they were wrong, or heathen or hellbound or ... or anything strong than "well, i disagree with that" or 'i believe in something different'?
Jank? Puppy? Billy Joe?
have i ever treated you badly, because your beliefs aren't the same as mine?


and yes, i do believe in God with all of my heart, and i admit easily that i could be 100% wrong. i could have suffered a physchotic event and hallucinated horribly. however, i rememeber the events and feelings from that moment easily enough, and i have to wonder if i did have a hallucination would i remember everything else that was happening at the time as well as i do? wouldn't the hallucination and the cause for it have resulted in me not remembering much except the hallucination?

maybe there is something in your first point tho....
maybe the problem is standards.

*I* try to be polite and respectful whenever possible, if i'm allowed to be.
*I* admit i could be wrong, and maybe there isn't a God, regardless what i believe.
*I* don't judge people and tell them they are wrong and stupid because they don't share my own beliefs.

and i've been expecting people to behave the same way.

Jennifer, i am not most people.
i can't help and i can't change the way most believers behave and act.
a huge portion of the things that annoy you the most annoy me as well.
i can't and i won't try to apologize for those people. to apologize indicates remorse, and i'm pretty sure they have none.
i know several athiests. quite a few, really. i prefer their company to that of fundies or even most regular church goers. there's only so many times in a day i need to hear the name of Jesus. i know who he was and what he did. i don't need reminding every 30 minutes.
i can easily understand that you don't believe in hell. i'm not sure i believe in it myself, or at least not the literal firey hell of lava and sulpher. that's great to scare a 5 year old with, but it falls apart a little once your older than 15.
a idea i have, on the subject of hell is pretty simple - the root idea of beliving in god and behing godly is to get to heaven to be with god, right?
so, maybe hell is simply being away from his physical presense - ? anyway.. irrelevent to this topic, but anyway.

i don't judge people by the group they belong to.
i won't assume you're like every other person in (group a) or even like the ones in (group b)i've ever met.
until you show me who or what you are all about, i won't assume anything.

please grant me the same courtesy.

oh.. wait.. that's right. that's been canceled.

quote:

Originally posted by Brick:
Don't tell me you don't believe in the booegyman

Brick

i was married to her once.

It's not a hard question to answer, but it's hard to answer without writing a book. Ok here goes. We are human beings, alive at this moment in time. Depending on how well I knew you I would either believe there was no one in the room, or think you were messing with me and there was. I'd have to know YOU very well to make that call. Now, if you told me there might be the "spirit" of a man in that room that he lived thousands of years ago, died for my sins on a cross, rose, and so on and so forth, I'd walk into the room with full knowledge that it was empty. Make sense?

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

For a dime/dozen guy, you deconstructed my post pretty thoroughly. Well done.

[/QUOTE]
i never said you weren't interesting.

quote:

Did I call believers idiots? Sure, I can think of a couple, but in general? I don't think so.


you've said things that imply, clearly, that only idiots could possibly belief in a sky fairy.
[QUOTE]

Oh, Dawkins is entirely relevant to the Pope. Popey is scared to death of him. That's why he had to go to Britain and call atheists "Nazis". Of all people, he should know better.

sorry.. but.. what? he went to england and called athiests nazis, because he's afraid of dawkins?

out of curiosity... just wondering... exactly what can dawkins actually DO the His Popeyness? the man is a world head and head of a soverign state. dawkins writes books and gets paid to talk.
no matter how much Tom Clancy hates mahmoud ahamadinijad, there just isn't much he can do about him.

[QUOTE]
You were never me. Sorry. You weren't.

nsns

Pff. was too. i still am on thursday afternoons, just after tea.

heh. truth is, most people really aren't all that different as far as life experiances go. we all pretty much go through the same stuff. there are a few exceptions, but not all that many. the exceptions worth noting typically involve live news coverage.

so yeah.. for the most part i was you and you were me.
and we were both christine o'donnell.

what makes people different is how we left those experiances change us inside.

quote:

Originally posted by CageTheElephant:

quote:

OK, Cagey,

I would not bet my life on the proposition.

But your story is not in the least analogous to anything having to do with the gods.

That is correct, in a manner of speaking. When one says they KNOW that there is or isn't, they are wrong. It may seem trivial, but I am a stickler for words. You believe there is no god. I believe you are honest in your conviction. You believe there is a god. You are honest in your conviction. Anyone that states that they KNOW either is , well, wrong.

Bingo.

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

quote:

so lack of proof is lack of existance?

Lack of evidence indicates lack of existence, yes. Saying god is not real is not speculation, but a reasoned response to the evidence for his existence. God is a scientific question, after all.

Oh, I think if god appears tomorrow morning, he'll have more of a beef with BG than Dawkins. Dawkins is on record as saying he'd like to meet god. He has questions, you see.

( so do i. many. )

quote:

BillGray, on the other hand, would have to explain all his lies.

Wouldn't you love to be there, with a hot dog and a cold drink?

nsns

and a camera, OH it would be awsome.

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

It's Saturday night. Why are we doing this?

nsns

because i'm old and married, and my wife and our roomie are watching the alabama game, and before that, the auburn game, and i have no use for football, so there's nothign better to do at this time.

least, that's why *I* am here on a saturday night.

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
It's Saturday night. Why are we doing this?nsns

because i'm old and married, and my wife and our roomie are watching the alabama game, and before that, the auburn game, and i have no use for football, so there's nothign better to do at this time.

least, that's why *I* am here on a saturday night.

Wow, Nagel,

Now you have done it! It is one thing to defame me, my beliefs, and sweet tea -- but, now you have defamed the Alabama Religion -- FOOTBALL!!

If you still live in Alabama -- don't show your face. The people of Alabama know a "football heretic" when they see one!

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

However, we must draw certain conclusions from evidence. Try as we might, there is no evidence that dogs give birth to cats. We can say with certainty that it does not happen.

i realize this is a little old now, and that i have already responded to it, i think... but the more and more rum i drank, the more and more this idea made me giggle.

ok.. so lets run with this concept, shall we?

there is no evidence that dogs give birth to cats.
stipulated.

there is also no evidence that elephants explode when poked with a 3 tine fork. nor is there evidence that wombats fly backwards at night, on the 3rd tuesday of months with an " R " in them

and none of the above has the least bit to do with the existance, or the non esistance, of god.

it's misleading bupkis, trying to approximate something that is outlandish and untrue, with something that merely has no solid proof.

how many people laughed at Mr. Pasteur about the invisible goblins hs suggested, until people stopped getting sick as much, simply by the act of washing their hands more often?

he had no proof, just speculation. he saw a result, and took a guess at why, and proposed a soloution. and so now we have milk. i'm not sure about the details of this discovery.

well, i look at flowers.. and i look at bees.... and i think.. wow.. two vastly different things so intimately and essentally conected for no reason that presents itself acedemically.

and i take a guess at why, and i think of a soloution - because it was INTENDED to be that way.

( pease note: before you start, bees and flowers are the least of examples.... but i'm toasted and couldn't come up with anything moer complicated)

now... with that said: bees and flowers and their intereaction do NOT automatically indicated, for me, the existance of an all powerful creator, any more than a toy car indicates a 12 year old worker in a chinese plant, carving molds for tiny plastic wheels and prepping them for lead based paint.

i'll say this for you, tho i've said it before... and if b50m is right, you've already read it.
i don't believe in the God you are probably fighting against.
if the fundies likle TheBill are correct, i'm just as screwed as you are.
i believe in a God who created it all. you don't even have to call him god if you don't want. i used the word for a lack of anything else. call him Doug for all i care.
Doug came along, from where i know not. Doug saw a void, and he filled it. ( how, i know not)
Doug designed all that is and all that will ever be. Designed, mind you... not 'created' as in " POOF" and it was there. Doug worked in the extreme long term scale.
Doug set his plans and designs in motion... and watched as the energy cooled and coalesed into the planets, galaxies, etc etc that we have now.
and he waits.
or acctually, perhaps he doesn't. maybe he's off doing the same thing in another universe we cna only dream about in science fiction novels.
and in the mean time, we .. it.. us.. them.. everything.. evolves... piece by piece... until we finally meet Doug's grand design.
he looks in from time to time.
he DOES care when is happeneing to us.... we are the whole point of it all, after all....
but doug cannot interfere.. cannot stop things or change things, because if he does, it *might* alter the plan he set about in the begining.

call him doug. call him God. call him whatever you like. i believe in a creator, and i don't much care what his name tag says.
and eventually, we'll evolve... spiritually.. intellectually... emotionally... into what he planned from the begining.

all i have to base this on is one phrase. one line.

" this is how much i love you. i exist, but i am not as you have been told"

well... i was told that god watches every little step, sees the fall of every sparrow, guides our hearts and our desires.... etc etc.. all the things your typical 'christian' child is taught growing up.

well, when i hear ' i am not as you have been told' it pretty much blows all of the rest out of the water, doesn't it? so i have to think... what makes sense now... what cna be real, if everything i had been told is false?
what do i believe in, if the whole of the bible is a lie?
if He isn't watching over us, wtf is He doing?

and i realized.... his eye is on the sparrow. he marks the fall of every sparrow.
but he doesn't do anything about it, does he?
that didn't mean that he wasn't real... it meant what we thought about him was wrong.

anyway. that's where i am.

you hop up and down ranting that god is false.... and when we are discussing the Christian God, the God of the bible, i admit i believe you are probably correct. i don't believe in that god either - i don't certainly believe in bill grays god, or in the god of the old and new testament either.
but i am pretty certain, in my own heart and mind, there IS a force out there, a conciousness - one responsible for our origin.. the origin of the universe.. and i am equally certain he has a pretty straightforward but complicated and detailed plan that explains the reason for... all of this.

but i could be wrong.
what's the phrase? i read it in a book once.....

"while i might be mistaken, i am not uncertain".

it means i have no doubt, but i admit that i am merely human and don't know everything.

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:


Pup,

Are you sure you are up to this task of living here in the South?

Whaddayakiddinme?? LOL.

I dunno. I can only handle so much "stupid-on-purpose" at once.

I wonder how you southerners manage it. I mean, from where I stand and look around, I can see nobody's got a job-Nobody seems to want one. Everybody I've met is either on disability or welfare or like me-just trying to eke out a very modest living in a place where blue-collar workers are paid less than high-school students in other states...
I see dilapidated houses-still inhabited with missing windows and garbage flowing out the front doors, yards full of decades worth of junk.
The fat girl behind the counter at McDonalds looks like she hasn't bathed since she was a toddler. There's greasy dirt in the creases of her (I'm guessing) 20-odd year old neck and her teeth that she has left are a lovely shade of gray-green. Her breakfast (probably from four days ago) still adorns her uniform. It is beginning to mildew.
I see old, smoke belching pickup trucks weaving and rattling down the roads-oil drizzling out of poorly-gasketed crankcases, driven by haggard, older-than-dirt-looking men that probsbly aren't all that old and I wonder if they've actually got working brakes-nevermind the reflexes left to use them properly.
I see dirty, disheveled children that actually believe in "haints"-some of whom show obvious signs of abuse.
I see long lines of haggard looking people at places like the Salvation Army and Loaves and Fishes-Some of whom are arriving in pretty SUVs with booming stereos and oversized wheels.
I see reports in the paper of people robbing each other and killing each other and burglarizing places for scrap metal!
I see the reports of official corruption...

Don't even get me started on the meth tweakers....

I'm almost ashamed to claim that I once lived here at all. The place is still frozen in time-30 years ago-except the society has apparently gone down the crapper. But they are righteous christians, by cracky.

Ya betcha bippy the "Old times here are not forgotten."

Sheesh. And I thought Florida was god's waiting room....

Ya sure ya meant that question like that, buffy?
Kinda sounds as if ya basically said "We're a whole, SPECIAL kinda stupid F-ed up and WE LIKE IT THAT WAY."

Bubba YOU said a mouthful.

quote:

call him doug. call him God. call him whatever you like. i believe in a creator, and i don't much care what his name tag says.

then you are a deist. noth9gn wrong with that. an atheist on training wheels. we both pay homage to the samge "god." yours is some great unifying force in the universe that does not interact with humans - just lit the match and stood back to watch the fire.

my beliefs are not so dissimilar. i simply accept the notion that the "god" is named "nature" and perfectly explains why the flowers and bees interact with such seeming perfection.

quote:

you hop up and down ranting that god is false.... and when we are discussing the Christian God, the God of the bible, i admit i believe you are probably correct. i don't believe in that god either - i don't certainly believe in bill grays god, or in the god of the old and new testament either.
but i am pretty certain, in my own heart and mind, there IS a force out there, a conciousness -

seriously, this perfectly describes a deist. you oughta educate yourself on the term so you will know what to call yourself.

http://www.deism.com/

Road Puppy did a search on "southern stereotypes" and posted it. Only problem there puppy is you know it's not true, we know it isn't true, so do you really want us to give any of your posts credibility? You could be describing towns and cities in any Northern state. I ran across one little town you described when I visited Michigan. My example: Limestone flea market, fat assed woman in tiedye t-shirt, it's so rotten it has holes from the wear, she's in cotton shorts, cut off from sweatpants, home bleach job on her orange hair, she probaly has five teeth left, and is standing outside smoking. I'm clean, well groomed, have all my teeth and you can ask my dentist, they're in good shape. I walk by her and then in that awful screeching "yankee" accent she starts telling me to visit her booth inside. UGH! Yeah right, like that's going to happen, cause lady I think you might actually have fleas. She's not even up to "fleamarket" standards. The difference in our stories? Mine is true. Don't you think Southerners travel? I've been to most states in this country (not to every state yet, working on that), not to mention other countries, and I have never found the one state or country that has the market cornered when it comes to "rednecks" and "whitetrash". Any restaurant around here, with workers like you described, wouldn't have customers. They might be the norm where you came from, but not here. And lastly I'll ask, if what you posted had been true, why would you be here?

quote:

The fat girl behind the counter at McDonalds looks like she hasn't bathed since she was a toddler. There's greasy dirt in the creases of her (I'm guessing) 20-odd year old neck and her teeth that she has left are a lovely shade of gray-green. Her breakfast (probably from four days ago) still adorns her uniform. It is beginning to mildew.

Did you still eat there? LOL

quote:

never found the one state or country that has the market cornered when it comes to "rednecks" and "whitetrash".

LOL, well said Jennifer.

The stereotypical 'redneck' is just that, a stereotype. I have seen a few that I am sure DID marry their sister and have the mutant kids to prove it.

Those are few and far between. The 'backward' south is a myth just like California is full of fruitcakes, oh wait, I think that one is true.

Every one I know has at least one college grad in the family, and most have generations of them.

As for the hard working farmer who has earned his 'redneck', I would be glad to shake his hand.

quote:

Sez Jennifer:
Road Puppy did a search on "southern stereotypes" and posted it. Only problem there puppy is you know it's not true, we know it isn't true, so do you really want us to give any of your posts credibility? You could be describing towns and cities in any Northern state. I ran across one little town you described when I visited Michigan. My example: Limestone flea market, fat assed woman in tiedye t-shirt, it's so rotten it has holes from the wear, she's in cotton shorts, cut off from sweatpants, home bleach job on her orange hair, she probaly has five teeth left, and is standing outside smoking. I'm clean, well groomed, have all my teeth and you can ask my dentist, they're in good shape. I walk by her and then in that awful screeching "yankee" accent she starts telling me to visit her booth inside. UGH! Yeah right, like that's going to happen, cause lady I think you might actually have fleas. She's not even up to "fleamarket" standards. The difference in our stories? Mine is true. Don't you think Southerners travel? I've been to most states in this country (not to every state yet, working on that), not to mention other countries, and I have never found the one state or country that has the market cornered when it comes to "rednecks" and "whitetrash". Any restaurant around here, with workers like you described, wouldn't have customers. They might be the norm where you came from, but not here. And lastly I'll ask, if what you posted had been true, why would you be here?

Yep, Pup just about covered every "Nawthun" city I've HAD to travel to.
But may I include:
Entire "hoods" that are ruled by thugs.
Cardboard "houses", making up entire cardboard "cities"...on inner city sidewalks.
Godawful, rundown "projects" surrounded by nasty, rundown, abandoned factories...ruled by thugs.
Security bars required for any business.
Junky assed abandoned vehicles on city streets.
E.R.'s packed with OD's, gunshots, etc. 24 hrs a day.
Killings barely investigated...much less solved.

Yeah, a virtual "Utopia".

quote:

I see dilapidated houses-still inhabited with missing windows and garbage flowing out the front doors, yards full of decades worth of junk.

Another difference in the North and South. In the South we would call a house like that "a dump" and wouldn't put our dogs in it. In the North they would call it a "starter home" and/or "fixerupper" and price it at around $550,000.00, and have people fighting to get it. That's one reason that they have to pay unskilled, uneducated people so much money in the North to do jobs that a five year old here could do. Guess puppy never watched "hoarders" LOL.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
Road Puppy did a search on "southern stereotypes" and posted it. Only problem there puppy is you know it's not true, we know it isn't true, so do you really want us to give any of your posts credibility? You could be describing towns and cities in any Northern state. I ran across one little town you described when I visited Michigan. My example: Limestone flea market, fat assed woman in tiedye t-shirt, it's so rotten it has holes from the wear, she's in cotton shorts, cut off from sweatpants, home bleach job on her orange hair, she probaly has five teeth left, and is standing outside smoking. I'm clean, well groomed, have all my teeth and you can ask my dentist, they're in good shape. I walk by her and then in that awful screeching "yankee" accent she starts telling me to visit her booth inside. UGH! Yeah right, like that's going to happen, cause lady I think you might actually have fleas. She's not even up to "fleamarket" standards. The difference in our stories? Mine is true. Don't you think Southerners travel? I've been to most states in this country (not to every state yet, working on that), not to mention other countries, and I have never found the one state or country that has the market cornered when it comes to "rednecks" and "whitetrash". Any restaurant around here, with workers like you described, wouldn't have customers. They might be the norm where you came from, but not here. And lastly I'll ask, if what you posted had been true, why would you be here?

Oh, Jennifer...But it IS true. I live here. All I have to do is drive one mile down the road and I see it.

I don't have to do a search on southern stereotypes. It's right here in front of me-everyday. I can post photos if you'd like. It's a real, honest-to-John freak show around here.

Up north you have to go to a flea market to see that kinda people and conditions. Here it appears to be a way of life. It's the norm.

Where up north-the pockets of trash are isolated in certain places-Here the pockets of cleanliness and normalcy are isolated in certain places. I just calls 'em like I sees 'em with mine own eyes.

From what I can see, it's a good thing these folks got god-'cause they sure ain't got-or don't want much else.

It never ceases to amaze me that some people actually expect to receive credit and recognition for STUFF THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO ANYWAY.

If you are one of those people who actually takes pride in your personal appearance and your immediate surroundings-Congratulations! You're mediocre!

Where I come from yards full of crap are just plain not allowed. Furthermore-people realize that what your home looks like tells passersby who you are.

Anybody where I come from with even a shred of self-respect would never allow themselves to degrade into the conditions I see folks around here in.

Just because you're poor or simple doesn't mean you have to look like you live in a dumpster behind a fish market.

I'm poor. As in "I'm not sure how many more times this week I can eat my one meal a day kinda poor." It's just the way it is right now, but you'd never know it by looking at me or by looking at my home.
Sure, the slightly dinged up ten year old economy car I drive might give ya a clue as to how broke I am or the fact that it never leaves my driveway except to go to work and back home...

Poor or not-I'm proud of myself. Of who and what I am and it apparently shows. On any given day I notice dirt-encrusted people looking at me with that "Yew ain't from arayound here", bug-in-a-jar look.

I mean how hard is it to take a shower once in a while, brush your tooth, and learn some dang English?


Just to show you that I'm not making any of this up or copying stuff from some "rednecks Gone Wild" website, here is a photograph taken from Google Earth of a place on Cloverdale Road in Underwood-Petersville-not too far from where I live... And, yes... That sign reads "Southern Showcase."

I couldn't say it better if I pasted it on a brick and threw it at your forehead.

Oh but puppy, I could post photos too, IF I had wanted to take pictures of the slums in the North. Again, why are you here?

Yep, Cage. Any inner-city is gonna look like that. The city I was born in-Niagara Falls, NY-Downtown looks like Belgrade after the bombing except most of the crime is committed there these days by the people who run the place.

Once you leave downtown however, the nheighborhoods are all pretty much well-kept with the exception of the neighborhoods west of the factories-and even they're not as bad as most of what I've seen around here.

Jennifer: I'm here because I pretty much bit off more than I could chew up north and lost my home to foreclosure. Not wanting to try to survive another 8 month long severe winter, I contacted the manager of a company down here who "guaranteed" me a full-time work week at a rate of pay I could modestly survive on.
I remembered living in Florence when I was a kid. I remembered the beautiful climate here and the mostly nice people I knew 34 years ago.
The "full time job" I was promised turned into a "half-time job" the very minute I got hired here. It was all a lie to get new blood into the place that didn't know the boss was doing what people around here apparently do best: Steal from their employer.
Well, that manager has since been fired, but I'm still stranded here in good ol' Florence where ignorance reigns supreme and for some reason-there's something always on dang fire.

Too poor to leave and too rich for food stamps.

quote:

Once you leave downtown however, the nheighborhoods are all pretty much well-kept with the exception of the neighborhoods west of the factories-and even they're not as bad as most of what I've seen around here.

Then why did you leave? Why not go back? And yes, those neighborhoods ARE as bad, worse, full of crack houses, places even cops won't go. It just seems odd that someone as unhappy as you are with an area would stay here.

Yeah Pup, I know. I didn't think you were slaming ALL "Southerners", but that's the way it read. There is S..T in every part of this country.
Now, gotta go let tha' dawgs outa tha' '48 Studebaker shell they call home.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

Once you leave downtown however, the nheighborhoods are all pretty much well-kept with the exception of the neighborhoods west of the factories-and even they're not as bad as most of what I've seen around here.

Then why did you leave? Why not go back? And yes, those neighborhoods ARE as bad, worse, full of crack houses, places even cops won't go. It just seems odd that someone as unhappy as you are with an area would stay here.

The picture you posted looks like an old abandoned business. And I don't know any people with only one tooth, even the old yankee hag had about five. If you can only insult an area you need to move. I wonder where in the heck you go that you only see what you described. I do know that many beautiful historic areas in some Southern towns have been taken over by hispanics. That's where I see the garbage in the yard, furniture on the porch, etc. Being poor has never been an excuse, I was raised to be clean, take care of myself, and ALWAYS have on clean underwear in case you had to go to the hospital! Most all Southerners were raised that way. You just want to slam the South for whatever reason. Maybe you're bitter because your "perfect" Northern town couldn't offer you a living. But I won't have it, you won't lump all of us together and then try to tell us you don't have the same kinds of people in the Northern states. No, I don't have to go to the fleamarket to see it, it's all over down here since the yankees "discovered the South", and like I said, all over in the Northern states I've seen things I never saw even in the poorest parts of the South.

quote:

Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
Yeah Pup, I know. I didn't think you were slaming ALL "Southerners", but that's the way it read. There is S..T in every part of this country.
Now, gotta go let tha' dawgs outa tha' '48 Studebaker shell they call home.

Yup. LOL.

Things are tough all over but it really chaps my ass when people tell me how bad it is up north while down here peoples' HOUSES ARE GETTING STRIPPED of wiring, plumbing and heating/cooling units while they're at work...
Tweakers are out prowling all night long..
People with lil' bitty brains and great big guns are killing each other for what? A few bucks? Scrap metal? For the helluvit?

Then they can go to church on Sunday and be saved. It's OK. Apparently Jesus understands.

Crap. I don't wanna hear anything about righteous christian values and morals when the same people who preach them can drive down a residential road and kill a dog with their car and not even notice 'cause their mug was stuck in a phone, texting. I saw one like that yesterday in the road...right on the yellow lines was this little black and white dog-dead in a pool of blood. I hadda turn around and go back to make sure what I was seeing. I remember that lil' guy padding around the neighborhood. Nice dog, he was. Apparently the person who hit him either didn't notice or didn't bother to do the righteous, christian thing and stop and try to find the dog's owner to let them know he may have killed their dog... Nope. I guess if nobody saw it-It doesn't count.

Ah, but you righteous christians believe that your god saw it! Are you not to be held accoutable for your actions like I am to myself for mine? I dunno. You god groupies got it way too easy. You can blame god for things like that.

I guess I am accountable to a higher standard than "you". I have to live with myself.

Whatever.....

Ok RP,

I found this just for you.

Eagle Michigan

Here is one of my favorites from this site.

There ya go Jank, just what I was talking about. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Ok RP,

I found this just for you.

Eagle Michigan

Here is one of my favorites from this site.

Dang rich yankee showoffs. I guess flaunt it if ya got it huh?

Hell yeah!

I mean look at that awesome blue recliner! It just makes the whole color scheme pop! I also like the way they used their space to create a very welcoming and entertainment friendly atmosphere.

oh yeah, and the blue port or potty is just overkill. I mean I have seen some great outdoor living spaces, but these folks went ALL OUT!

Pfft.

Yeah? So what's YOUR (southerners-not YOU specifically) excuse?
You had to go to a specific website detailing "white trash" places in Michigan.
All I gotta do is walk outside to see stuff like that.
Like I said before, ya gotta look for it up there. Here-it's all over the place. Ya gotta go into the better neighborhoods scattered about to find places where people obviously have some pride.

I suppose this is what ya get when ya drive all the jobs out of the area and relegate the people who are struggling at the few minumum wage jobs that are left to fourth-class citizenship.

Even so, in my mind there's NO excuse other than not being able to afford power and water or just coming off duty from a logging or mining or construction job for going out in public caked in crud wearing last week's clothes all stained with crap.

No excuse for sending your kid to school with matted hair and filthy clothes. And these kids REEK.

No excuse for being too fat to walk.
Everywhere I look I see women driving Buicks that look like they were poured into them like a concrete foundation. No joke-They fill the entire front seat-touching every surface on all sides from the "A" pillar to the "B" pillar. Then I can't help but giggle as I watch these 500-pound wheeze-donkeys trying to climb out of the car and waddle into the BBQ joint for the "all-you-can-eat" special like two Volkswagen Beetles vying for the same parking space.

Isn't "cleanliness" next to "godliness?"
Isn't gluttony a sin?
C'mon, people! Practice what ya preach fa cryin' out loud. Mebbe then people like me could believe all that righteous christian crap ya spew.

I guess "Once saved-Always saved" applies to bathing as well.

I recently chartered a group of high school kids to a couple different elementary schools in Florence.
They were doing a skit. Know what it was teaching? It was teaching the importance of personal hygiene!

Like this actually has to be done?! C'mon now! I lived in the northeast for three decades and never ONCE have I seen anything like this.

All I gotta do is walk outside to see stuff like that.


You are so full of it. Good gawd boy, we live in this area, we know you're full of it. And IF we were in your state we wouldn't have to do a search, all we'd have to do is take pictures as we went by. That's what I told you earlier, I could produce pictures IF I had chosen to take shots of the slums. But why would I?

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

you hop up and down ranting that god is false.... and when we are discussing the Christian God, the God of the bible, i admit i believe you are probably correct. i don't believe in that god either - i don't certainly believe in bill grays god, or in the god of the old and new testament either.
but i am pretty certain, in my own heart and mind, there IS a force out there, a conciousness -

seriously, this perfectly describes a deist. you oughta educate yourself on the term so you will know what to call yourself.

http://www.deism.com/

i call myself Thenagel.

labels are for other people - i know who i am. i don't much care where i fit in other peoples list of labels.

call me a deist. i'm good with whatever i've certainly been called worse lol

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
All I gotta do is walk outside to see stuff like that.


You are so full of it. Good gawd boy, we live in this area, we know you're full of it. And IF we were in your state we wouldn't have to do a search, all we'd have to do is take pictures as we went by. That's what I told you earlier, I could produce pictures IF I had chosen to take shots of the slums. But why would I?

Take a leisurely drive through my neighborhood. You'll see. Go down a few of those rustic county roads. Stop by at one of the local choke-and-pukes in this area
Even in the Big Apple, the only filthy people are the bums on the streets. Everyone else is well-groomed, clean and for the most part business-like. The pride is evident.

People aren't allowed to let their property get into such a state of clutter and disrepair where I come from. They wouldn't anyway. They're proud of where they live be it in the 'burbs or in the projects.


In fact, here's another Google Earth photo of the Laurel Gardens Public Housing project on Main St. in Danbury, CT. This place is one of the most notorious drug and gang-infested projects in that area-and it STILL looks better than, oh....say...Cherry Hill Homes.

No garbage, no bedsheets in the windows, etc.

Even the welfare-moochin' lowlife thugs in Danbury have more class than the project-dwellers here.


Anyway...Nagel-I do sincerely apologize for hijacking your thread......

quote:

Originally posted by Road Puppy:
Pfft.

Yeah? So what's YOUR (southerners-not YOU specifically) excuse?
You had to go to a specific website detailing "white trash" places in Michigan.
All I gotta do is walk outside to see stuff like that.
Like I said before, ya gotta look for it up there. Here-it's all over the place. Ya gotta go into the better neighborhoods scattered about to find places where people obviously have some pride.

Calm down man. I was just having some fun. I don't know where you live but, I can't walk outside and see anything like what you are talking about. I worked with the public for many years in a few different towns and cities and I haven't had but a hand full of experiences with these dirt caked people you are talking about.

The web site I found were all pictures in this guys hometown. He had 3 or 4 pages of this type of stuff all around the town of Eagle, Michigan. Can't get much farther north than that.

I just thought it was a good example of what others were trying to say. There are people in every state that live like that. It is not only the south.
You might actually come from a jewel of a town that just didn't have many "whitetrash" folk. If so, then you were lucky to have grown up in such a picturesque place. It is an oddity and even then you can usually drive a few miles in any direction and finds someone living in a school bus with a porch built onto the front.

Here have a glass of homemade wine and come sit a spell. I was just about to build a fire in the barrel out back. We can break out the shine later and jump the fire! Wooo Hoooo!

quote:

Originally posted by Road Puppy:

Anyway...Nagel-I do sincerely apologize for hijacking your thread......

LOL.. absoloutly no problem. i think it was pretty much done anyway. also, i can't really find myself arguing against you on any point you've made on the issue. i don't feel it as strongly as you do, but i don't disagree with a word of it.

but as for my thing - i think what could be said had been said, except that surprise insertion of the concept that i'm a Deist by Unob.

i checked out the link Unob.
fascinating. Thanks

Heh. No animosity intended, Jank. Seriously.

It just amazes me what point people will let themselves go to. I guess I was pretty lucky to live in a picturesque New England town. I reckon I just got used to it.

Ya ever get a chance-take a cruise through Petersville and stop someplace and sit a spell and just watch people. You'll see what I see.

Should I happen to mention my observations-OMG! You'd think I just said something like "Oh yeah? Who won the war, pal..." Everybody's jumping and yelping and snapping at each other like a buncha pound puppies trying to attack me.

I dunno...I just hear a whole lotta preachin' and righteousness-But then I see something a lot different. I've seen the same folks leaving a church on Sunday morning getting stuffed into the back of the sheriff's car on Friday night with a beaten, screaming woman in the doorway of the house.

I think one of the Ghandis said it best....

"If it were not for the Christians I know, I might become one of them."