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And, we cannot forget our vanilla-flavored non-believing Friends -- those who just cannot bring themselves to leave their worldly desires and turn to follow Jesus Christ. I know this character -- for I was him for almost fifty years.

**********************************************
The above post by bill seems to mean that an atheist is an atheist because they don't want to "give up or leave" things that they think would be considered wrong by "christians". I ask bill twice just what he thought we didn't want to give up, but bill, as usual, won't answer.

So as an atheist or non-believer, reformed believer, whatever, what do you think you'd have to "give up" to believe or believe again? I can't think of anything I do differently now than I did when I was a believer. I don't drink, bill has said he drinks wine, I don't smoke, plenty of christians do, among other things. There are many things "christians" and others do that I don't do or approve of.
So what do you think you'd have to give up? Besides the obvious things like logic and common sense.

I wish bill would answer questions every once and a while because I'd love to know what "worldly desires" we'd have to lose.
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I can' think of anything.

Seems to me that Christians do what ever they want any. All they have to do is ask forgiveness from God afterward. I saw a Christian do that on here last week. She told another forum member to "go to hell" and then said she would just pray and ask God to forgive her later. So obviously she felt that it was wrong to say something like that to another human being, yet decided that she could do it anyway because she had that out of forgiveness from her God.

Atheist don't think that way. Our actions and the hurts we cause do not and can not always be forgiven. We have to be more aware of the consequences of our actions. We have no easy forgiveness button that makes it all just go away.
quote:
Originally posted by DarkAngel:
I can' think of anything.

Seems to me that Christians do what ever they want any. All they have to do is ask forgiveness from God afterward. I saw a Christian do that on here last week. She told another forum member to "go to hell" and then said she would just pray and ask God to forgive her later. So obviously she felt that it was wrong to say something like that to another human being, yet decided that she could do it anyway because she had that out of forgiveness from her God.

Atheist don't think that way. Our actions and the hurts we cause do not and can not always be forgiven. We have to be more aware of the consequences of our actions. We have no easy forgiveness button that makes it all just go away.


So you are saying that atheists never lose their temper? Or that because I am a Christian I am not allowed to?

Or are you just saying this to try and show how "superior" you are?

Yes, I lost my temper. And telling someone to go to Hell doesn't mean anything to an atheist except as a show of anger because they don't believe in Hell. To a Christian, it is about the worst thing you can say to a person. THAT'S how angry I was, and yes, I asked God's forgiveness because cursing a fellow human being to be seperated from God forever is just plain wrong.

If I had said, "You're an idiot", I would have been stating my opinion, not cursing this person. If I had said, "Drop dead", it wouldn't have been very nice, but it wouldn't be as bad as saying "Go to Hell".

But what's it to you if I asked God's forgiveness? You don't believe in God anyway. And unless you have never said those exact same words to anyone, you are just as bad.
Actually, Bill answered Jennifer's question last night. She either didn't see it, or chose to ignore it. Bill said that SELF is what he meant when he said atheists won't give up worldly things. I added a bit to that in a post on that thread this morning, and I will repeat it here:

quote:
For many folks, especially atheists, it is not so much the materials things which are their worldly gods -- it is self.



I agree with you 100% on this, Bill. Atheists are not necessarily BAD people, but they do put self first. Atheists are proud of their intellects, they are proud of their self sufficiency, they are proud to think they run their own lives.

I know this because I was once an atheist. But if you don't believe me, just read the things posted by the atheists on this board.

And now, as a Christian, I can honestly say that since I turned over control of my life to Jesus, I am stronger, happier, and better in every way than I ever was before.

It takes a lot of intestinal fortitude to turn one's back on self, to give up that pride in the intellect, and let someone ELSE run one's life. Only great love could get me to do it - my love for Jesus, and His love for me.
Hey, O...

I think the point DA was making was that, sure...we all screw up and lose our freakin' minds and the caveman/woman comes out to play, but atheists, (who have no god to ask for forgiveness-thereby making everything all right and resetting the sin-O-meter back to all zeros again til next time) tend to possibly think things through before we say or do them. We are in the here and now. To us atheists there is no hereafter. The score does not matter. Everybody dies and nobody wins.

Therefore all the winning (or failing) has to be done in the here and now.



I myself follow a simple rule:

I watch where I go and I remember where I've been.

If I do something wrong-I probably did it for the right reason. If I hurt somebody I will apologize, but my reason remains.

We atheists know you christians hafta live with the consequences of your actions just like we do. The only difference is-we can't shuck the guilt off on god. Furthermore, we don't want to.

I've noticed that most christians spend a lotta time feeling guilty for stuff...Oh, and telling others to feel guilty and repent for stuff, too.

Hmm... I don't usually feel guilty for anything.
see the above rules I follow for why.


Buffy....I.....sh*t, I just can't even come up with anything to say to that...

Dude...Yer just a whole special kinda f*ed-up.

Wink
quote:
Originally posted by bluetick:
Buffy, I must respectfully ask why you think all atheists (or atheist candidates if you prefer) have sex with animals. I can assure you this is not true.

Look through the news threads..I turned down an animal today.
He's been around peter to long and now he's got that sick obsession. UGH! I might add too that these are supposedly "christians" accusing a group of people of that sick behavior. Can you imagine living with those two?
Last edited by Jennifer
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
quote:
Originally posted by DarkAngel:
I can' think of anything.

Seems to me that Christians do what ever they want any. All they have to do is ask forgiveness from God afterward. I saw a Christian do that on here last week. She told another forum member to "go to hell" and then said she would just pray and ask God to forgive her later. So obviously she felt that it was wrong to say something like that to another human being, yet decided that she could do it anyway because she had that out of forgiveness from her God.

Atheist don't think that way. Our actions and the hurts we cause do not and can not always be forgiven. We have to be more aware of the consequences of our actions. We have no easy forgiveness button that makes it all just go away.


So you are saying that atheists never lose their temper? Or that because I am a Christian I am not allowed to?

Or are you just saying this to try and show how "superior" you are?

Yes, I lost my temper. And telling someone to go to Hell doesn't mean anything to an atheist except as a show of anger because they don't believe in Hell. To a Christian, it is about the worst thing you can say to a person. THAT'S how angry I was, and yes, I asked God's forgiveness because cursing a fellow human being to be seperated from God forever is just plain wrong.

If I had said, "You're an idiot", I would have been stating my opinion, not cursing this person. If I had said, "Drop dead", it wouldn't have been very nice, but it wouldn't be as bad as saying "Go to Hell".

But what's it to you if I asked God's forgiveness? You don't believe in God anyway. And unless you have never said those exact same words to anyone, you are just as bad.


I said none of those things. You seem to read a lot into what is posted and decide what others "meant" regardless of what they actually say. Pretty typical Christian behavior, I see you guys do that all the time with your bible. Just twist it and turn it till it fits right?

I said that YOU must have thought it was wrong, yet did it anyway. I could really give a rats patootie if you tell me to go to hell. I don't dictate to you what is a sin or not. Your religion does.

My point was that atheist have nothing to give up other than as Jennifer pointed out our logic and reasoning, to believe in a God. Obviously you can do what ever you want as a Christian as long as you ask forgiveness for it afterward. I will say again, just so you may can grasp it this time, atheist don't have that out. What we do or say to other people we have to own. No where in the back of my mind do I have a voice that is telling me that I can go ahead and be mean to this person and later I will ask God to forgive me and all will be erased and ok. The thoughts I have are more along the lines of, if I am mean to this person then I will have to deal with the consequences and the guilt of hurting another human being.

If that makes you feel like I am superior to you then I would say you need to evaluate yourself not me.
quote:
Originally posted by DarkAngel:
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
quote:
Originally posted by DarkAngel:
I can' think of anything.

Seems to me that Christians do what ever they want any. All they have to do is ask forgiveness from God afterward. I saw a Christian do that on here last week. She told another forum member to "go to hell" and then said she would just pray and ask God to forgive her later. So obviously she felt that it was wrong to say something like that to another human being, yet decided that she could do it anyway because she had that out of forgiveness from her God.

Atheist don't think that way. Our actions and the hurts we cause do not and can not always be forgiven. We have to be more aware of the consequences of our actions. We have no easy forgiveness button that makes it all just go away.


So you are saying that atheists never lose their temper? Or that because I am a Christian I am not allowed to?

Or are you just saying this to try and show how "superior" you are?

Yes, I lost my temper. And telling someone to go to Hell doesn't mean anything to an atheist except as a show of anger because they don't believe in Hell. To a Christian, it is about the worst thing you can say to a person. THAT'S how angry I was, and yes, I asked God's forgiveness because cursing a fellow human being to be seperated from God forever is just plain wrong.

If I had said, "You're an idiot", I would have been stating my opinion, not cursing this person. If I had said, "Drop dead", it wouldn't have been very nice, but it wouldn't be as bad as saying "Go to Hell".

But what's it to you if I asked God's forgiveness? You don't believe in God anyway. And unless you have never said those exact same words to anyone, you are just as bad.


I said none of those things. You seem to read a lot into what is posted and decide what others "meant" regardless of what they actually say. Pretty typical Christian behavior, I see you guys do that all the time with your bible. Just twist it and turn it till it fits right?

I said that YOU must have thought it was wrong, yet did it anyway. I could really give a rats patootie if you tell me to go to hell. I don't dictate to you what is a sin or not. Your religion does.

My point was that atheist have nothing to give up other than as Jennifer pointed out our logic and reasoning, to believe in a God. Obviously you can do what ever you want as a Christian as long as you ask forgiveness for it afterward. I will say again, just so you may can grasp it this time, atheist don't have that out. What we do or say to other people we have to own. No where in the back of my mind do I have a voice that is telling me that I can go ahead and be mean to this person and later I will ask God to forgive me and all will be erased and ok. The thoughts I have are more along the lines of, if I am mean to this person then I will have to deal with the consequences and the guilt of hurting another human being.

If that makes you feel like I am superior to you then I would say you need to evaluate yourself not me.
Exactly. Applause applause.
Pup, Christians feel just as bad as plain old human beings when we mess up as you do. We ALSO feel bad because we are making the God we love unhappy. When we ask forgiveness, it doesn't just wipe it away, any more than asking forgiveness from a friend whose feeling you have hurt makes it go away. They may say they forgive you, but you still feel bad.

So when I ask God to forgive me for something I have said or done, I am still very aware that I have done something wrong, and even though I know He forgives me, I still feel bad that I have hurt both Him, and another human being. And so just like you, I try harder not to do it again.
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
Hey, O...

I think the point DA was making was that, sure...we all screw up and lose our freakin' minds and the caveman/woman comes out to play, but atheists, (who have no god to ask for forgiveness-thereby making everything all right and resetting the sin-O-meter back to all zeros again til next time) tend to possibly think things through before we say or do them. We are in the here and now. To us atheists there is no hereafter. The score does not matter. Everybody dies and nobody wins.

Therefore all the winning (or failing) has to be done in the here and now.



I myself follow a simple rule:

I watch where I go and I remember where I've been.

If I do something wrong-I probably did it for the right reason. If I hurt somebody I will apologize, but my reason remains.

We atheists know you christians hafta live with the consequences of your actions just like we do. The only difference is-we can't shuck the guilt off on god. Furthermore, we don't want to.

I've noticed that most christians spend a lotta time feeling guilty for stuff...Oh, and telling others to feel guilty and repent for stuff, too.

Hmm... I don't usually feel guilty for anything.
see the above rules I follow for why.


Buffy....I.....sh*t, I just can't even come up with anything to say to that...

Dude...Yer just a whole special kinda f*ed-up.

Wink


Yeah what Road Puppy said.

I like you dude.
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
Actually, Bill answered Jennifer's question last night. She either didn't see it, or chose to ignore it. Bill said that SELF is what he meant when he said atheists won't give up worldly things. I added a bit to that in a post on that thread this morning, and I will repeat it here:

quote:
For many folks, especially atheists, it is not so much the materials things which are their worldly gods -- it is self.



I agree with you 100% on this, Bill. Atheists are not necessarily BAD people, but they do put self first. Atheists are proud of their intellects, they are proud of their self sufficiency, they are proud to think they run their own lives.

I know this because I was once an atheist. But if you don't believe me, just read the things posted by the atheists on this board.

And now, as a Christian, I can honestly say that since I turned over control of my life to Jesus, I am stronger, happier, and better in every way than I ever was before.

It takes a lot of intestinal fortitude to turn one's back on self, to give up that pride in the intellect, and let someone ELSE run one's life. Only great love could get me to do it - my love for Jesus, and His love for me.


Yeah, I read it there too. Thanks for reposting the whole thing again. I love it when Christian's point out what we atheist have been saying all along.

To be a Christian you must abandon your intelligence and give your mind and life over to someone else to decide everything that is right and wrong for you. Pretty much sums up what most atheist are not willing to give up, which brings us back to logic and reason.
quote:
Originally posted by bluetick:
Buffy, I must respectfully ask why you think all atheists (or atheist candidates if you prefer) have sex with animals. I can assure you this is not true.


I have that rude old man Buffy, that plays Christian, on ignore so I only see his remarks if someone quotes or repeats what he said.
His saying that Atheist has sex with animals shows just exactly what kind of sick old man he is.
AAAAAA!

Holy crap! Yer all posting too fast and my head's gonna explode!

I was editing and, like four other posts went up.

Yeah, O. I know what you're saying and I believe that you are actually trying to be what a christian is supposed to be.

There's too many, however that feel they have an "easy" button.

Seems that christians like you and atheists like me think a lot alike. I just need one less motive for doing so. Smiler
Youdon't abandon your intelligence, but you no longer use it justtoshow off how intelligent you are! You use it to do whatever it is God wants you todo. He GAVE us our intelligence so that we could make the world a better place, not so we could make more money or get into a better paying job, and certainly not to brag on an internet forum that we have "logic and reason". Big Grin

You atheists (some of you at least), remind me of teenagers. You THINK you know it all, and yet, you don't. And just like a know-it-all teenager, there will (probably already has) come a time in your life when you mess up so badly that you can't fix things yourself.

Christians are like the teenagers who DON'T think they know it all. We realize that our parents (in this case, God) knows a lot more about life than we do, and we know that, just like a parent, He loves us and will lead us where we need to go. Rather than rebelling and trying to do it our own way, with disasterous results, we let Him lead us, and He NEVER leads us astray.
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:

So what do you think you'd have to give up? Besides the obvious things like logic and common sense.


I was going to bite on this thread till you invalidated your question with the above remark.

Bite? Bite how? Even though you're welcome to do so why would you "bite" or answer if you're not an atheist? That statement does nothing to invalidate my question.
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by bluetick:
Buffy, I must respectfully ask why you think all atheists (or atheist candidates if you prefer) have sex with animals. I can assure you this is not true.


I have that rude old man Buffy, that plays Christian, on ignore so I only see his remarks if someone quotes or repeats what he said.
His saying that Atheist has sex with animals shows just exactly what kind of sick old man he is.
LOL, same here. He is one sick thing. Maybe he's trying to tell us that sex with animals is one thing he had to give up when he "became a christian". I can't even call him a christian without laughing.
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
Youdon't abandon your intelligence, but you no longer use it justtoshow off how intelligent you are. You use it to do whatever it is God wants you todo. He GAVE us our intelligence so that we could make the world a better place, not so we could make more money or get into a better paying job, and certainly not to brag on an internet forum that we have "logic and reason". Big Grin

You atheists (some of you at least), remind me of teenagers. You THINK you know it all, and yet, you don't. And just like a know-it-all teenager, there will (probably already has) come a time in your life when you mess up so badly that you can't fix things yourself.

Christians are like the teenagers who DON'T think they know it all. We realize that our parents (in this case, God) knows a lot more about life than we do, and we know that, just like a parent, He loves us and will lead us where we need to go. Rather than rebelling and trying to do it our own way, with disasterous results, we let Him lead us, and He NEVER leads us astray.


Hmm. Was this directed at me?

If so, I know that MY intelligence was acquired through experience and observation-trial and error. (The remembering where I've been part).
It was not just 'bestowed' upon me. It took awhile. Wink

I don't know it all, but what I DO know I learned the hard way. I think I've done pretty good so far. At least the fact that folks aren't busting my chops like they do BeeG's tells me so.

If I had a nickel for every time I screwed up my life-no matter how bad-and had to start all over again at the beginning (kinda like now after giving up my former life and moving here to Alabama with nothing)-I'd have a tube sock fulla nickels. Either way-If I'm gonna make it right, *I* hafta do it. One painful, creaky step at a time. AGAIN.


I suppose I can make the world a better place. But I have to start by making my little corner of it better for me first. That includes making more money from a better paying job.
Baby steps and all. Big Grin


If you're content having someone else drive for you-More power to ya.

Like I said in another post-I'm a white-knuckler. I race full throttle around the next blind curve just to see what happens next.
No stop signs-Speed limits....
In my mind, I have no other choice.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:

So what do you think you'd have to give up? Besides the obvious things like logic and common sense.


I was going to bite on this thread till you invalidated your question with the above remark.

Bite? Bite how? Even though you're welcome to do so why would you "bite" or answer if you're not an atheist? That statement does nothing to invalidate my question.


Opps, I see now that your question was only directed to other atheists. Why would you not ask a Christian? Does not seem to me that a person would have to give up anything to just believe.
RP-Funny how some christians accuse atheists of thinking they know it all and think they're "better" than others, but yet they will piously say, "you don't have what I have, you don't know what I know, your life isn't complete like my life, you won't get that big reward I'm going to get, if your mind wasn't closed, if you UNDERSTOOD things like I do you'd run to god", and so on and so on and so on. But noooooo, they're not trying to be "superior" are they? I guess in their minds a "holier than thou" attitude isn't a feeling of superiority. Bawahahahahahaha!!
quote:
Opps, I see now that your question was only directed to other atheists. Why would you not ask a Christian? Does not seem to me that a person would have to give up anything to just believe.

I was addressing the statement bill made about us not willing to give up "worldly desires" as the reason we don't "want" to believe, and I was curious to know if anyone felt they'd have to give up anything.
Sorry Pup, no, that wasn't directed at you. It was Dark Angel who said we had to give up our intelligence.

But the intelligence I was talking about is the IQ - the intelligence we are born with. What you are talking about is wisdom - the thing you grow through experience.

And I have no doubt - none whatsoever, that you are wise. Your posts show that. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
RP-Funny how some christians accuse atheists of thinking they know it all and think they're "better" than others, but yet they will piously say, "you don't have what I have, you don't know what I know, your life isn't complete like my life, you won't get that big reward I'm going to get, if your mind wasn't closed, if you UNDERSTOOD things like I do you'd run to god", and so on and so on and so on. But noooooo, they're not trying to be "superior" are they? I guess in their minds a "holier than thou" attitude isn't a feeling of superiority. Bawahahahahahaha!!


Hmm... Reckon we'll all find out when the lights go out for the last time.

Meantime, I gotta lotta livin' to do 'fore I die. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
RP-Funny how some christians accuse atheists of thinking they know it all and think they're "better" than others, but yet they will piously say, "you don't have what I have, you don't know what I know, your life isn't complete like my life, you won't get that big reward I'm going to get, if your mind wasn't closed, if you UNDERSTOOD things like I do you'd run to god", and so on and so on and so on. But noooooo, they're not trying to be "superior" are they? I guess in their minds a "holier than thou" attitude isn't a feeling of superiority. Bawahahahahahaha!!


Jennifer will never see this unless someone quotes me, but "superior" is NOT what Christians feel we are. What we feel (know) is that GOD is superior to any and all human beings, and THAT is why we are glad to turn our lives over to him. WE are not superior to anyone - just incredibly lucky (blessed) that God is now running the show.
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
Youdon't abandon your intelligence, but you no longer use it justtoshow off how intelligent you are! You use it to do whatever it is God wants you todo. He GAVE us our intelligence so that we could make the world a better place, not so we could make more money or get into a better paying job, and certainly not to brag on an internet forum that we have "logic and reason". Big Grin

You atheists (some of you at least), remind me of teenagers. You THINK you know it all, and yet, you don't. And just like a know-it-all teenager, there will (probably already has) come a time in your life when you mess up so badly that you can't fix things yourself.

Christians are like the teenagers who DON'T think they know it all. We realize that our parents (in this case, God) knows a lot more about life than we do, and we know that, just like a parent, He loves us and will lead us where we need to go. Rather than rebelling and trying to do it our own way, with disasterous results, we let Him lead us, and He NEVER leads us astray.


Ok, so I can be intelligent I just can't use it to point out the inconsistencies or contradictions found in the Christian faith? Have I got that right? I can't use my intellect of examine the bible and belief in God in the same manner I do for say the assertion that there is a Big Foot. If I do use my intelligence to question or examine Christianity with logic and reason then I am just being boastful. I gotcha.

I don't know everything. I have never claimed to know everything. To me when Christians say the "know" there is a God and a heaven they are the ones who claim to have all the answers with no real knowledge. I on the other hand wait for real proof or evidence and I am not willing to assume that I know what comes after this life. All I can do is live the one I have and use my intelligence to get through it the best way I can.

Christianity is a dumbing down in my opinion. You are not allowed to question or examine it too closely or you are not being faithful. You are full of pride and that apparently is a sin. I am proud of many things in my life. I worked hard to get where I am and I don't owe it to God. So I guess I am a sinner in your eyes. Luckily that is your own problem. In my world there are rights and wrongs, but no sins.

One more thing. I see some Christians say they do not believe that God directs our lives, that we have free will and good or bad things that happen in this life have nothing to do with God. Then I see others who say that only the good can be attributed to God. Then you have those that think even the bad is God's work. As the Westboro Baptist group do. Which is it that you subscribe to?
quote:
Originally posted by DarkAngel:
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
Youdon't abandon your intelligence, but you no longer use it justtoshow off how intelligent you are! You use it to do whatever it is God wants you todo. He GAVE us our intelligence so that we could make the world a better place, not so we could make more money or get into a better paying job, and certainly not to brag on an internet forum that we have "logic and reason". Big Grin

You atheists (some of you at least), remind me of teenagers. You THINK you know it all, and yet, you don't. And just like a know-it-all teenager, there will (probably already has) come a time in your life when you mess up so badly that you can't fix things yourself.

Christians are like the teenagers who DON'T think they know it all. We realize that our parents (in this case, God) knows a lot more about life than we do, and we know that, just like a parent, He loves us and will lead us where we need to go. Rather than rebelling and trying to do it our own way, with disasterous results, we let Him lead us, and He NEVER leads us astray.


Ok, so I can be intelligent I just can't use it to point out the inconsistencies or contradictions found in the Christian faith? Have I got that right? I can't use my intellect of examine the bible and belief in God in the same manner I do for say the assertion that there is a Big Foot. If I do use my intelligence to question or examine Christianity with logic and reason then I am just being boastful. I gotcha.

I don't know everything. I have never claimed to know everything. To me when Christians say the "know" there is a God and a heaven they are the ones who claim to have all the answers with no real knowledge. I on the other hand wait for real proof or evidence and I am not willing to assume that I know what comes after this life. All I can do is live the one I have and use my intelligence to get through it the best way I can.

Christianity is a dumbing down in my opinion. You are not allowed to question or examine it too closely or you are not being faithful. You are full of pride and that apparently is a sin. I am proud of many things in my life. I worked hard to get where I am and I don't owe it to God. So I guess I am a sinner in your eyes. Luckily that is your own problem. In my world there are rights and wrongs, but no sins.

One more thing. I see some Christians say they do not believe that God directs our lives, that we have free will and good or bad things that happen in this life have nothing to do with God. Then I see others who say that only the good can be attributed to God. Then you have those that think even the bad is God's work. As the Westboro Baptist group do. Which is it that you subscribe to?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Mz dark,,,,,,,,,Don't be to concerned about all you hear about christian and
their faith. There are plenty of other things to believe.

I don't think you're intelligent, and I not sure why those labels are
thrown around so carelessly. Don't worry about that either.

Not believing in any god or anything of that subject is a plus for you.
When you're tired of trying to figure out all the silly god stuff,
you can just walk right out that door.

You'll feel better knowing you lost nothing you didn't have before.

Iv
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
quote:
Originally posted by DarkAngel:
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
Youdon't abandon your intelligence, but you no longer use it justtoshow off how intelligent you are! You use it to do whatever it is God wants you todo. He GAVE us our intelligence so that we could make the world a better place, not so we could make more money or get into a better paying job, and certainly not to brag on an internet forum that we have "logic and reason". Big Grin

You atheists (some of you at least), remind me of teenagers. You THINK you know it all, and yet, you don't. And just like a know-it-all teenager, there will (probably already has) come a time in your life when you mess up so badly that you can't fix things yourself.

Christians are like the teenagers who DON'T think they know it all. We realize that our parents (in this case, God) knows a lot more about life than we do, and we know that, just like a parent, He loves us and will lead us where we need to go. Rather than rebelling and trying to do it our own way, with disasterous results, we let Him lead us, and He NEVER leads us astray.


Ok, so I can be intelligent I just can't use it to point out the inconsistencies or contradictions found in the Christian faith? Have I got that right? I can't use my intellect of examine the bible and belief in God in the same manner I do for say the assertion that there is a Big Foot. If I do use my intelligence to question or examine Christianity with logic and reason then I am just being boastful. I gotcha.

I don't know everything. I have never claimed to know everything. To me when Christians say the "know" there is a God and a heaven they are the ones who claim to have all the answers with no real knowledge. I on the other hand wait for real proof or evidence and I am not willing to assume that I know what comes after this life. All I can do is live the one I have and use my intelligence to get through it the best way I can.

Christianity is a dumbing down in my opinion. You are not allowed to question or examine it too closely or you are not being faithful. You are full of pride and that apparently is a sin. I am proud of many things in my life. I worked hard to get where I am and I don't owe it to God. So I guess I am a sinner in your eyes. Luckily that is your own problem. In my world there are rights and wrongs, but no sins.

One more thing. I see some Christians say they do not believe that God directs our lives, that we have free will and good or bad things that happen in this life have nothing to do with God. Then I see others who say that only the good can be attributed to God. Then you have those that think even the bad is God's work. As the Westboro Baptist group do. Which is it that you subscribe to?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Mz dark,,,,,,,,,Don't be to concerned about all you hear about christian and
their faith. There are plenty of other things to believe.

I don't think you're intelligent, and I not sure why those labels are
thrown around so carelessly. Don't worry about that either.

Not believing in any god or anything of that subject is a plus for you.
When you're tired of trying to figure out all the silly god stuff,
you can just walk right out that door.

You'll feel better knowing you lost nothing you didn't have before.

Iv


Good answer Invictus. Just what I would have expected from a Christians such as yourself.

I don't have to believe to have an opinion on something. Last time I checked this was a public forum. Aren't you the one that is always posting those so called "miracles"? I don't think an intellectual critique from someone such as yourself, can truly be taken too seriously. I wish I could just walk away from Christianity. I can't though, not without leaving my own country. Instead I think I will just stay and fight your brand of self righteous idiocracy . If Christians stop demanding their religion be respected, believed, treated as the only truth, and used as a guide for our biology and science classes in our public schools, you could be rid of us pesky nay sayers. Cause then I would not give a crap how deluded and weak you wanted to live your life. Just keep the crazy over there in your church and home and I want have to question it. Deal?

What I think is so funny about both yours and ONo's outcries about atheist saying they are more intelligent always comes from you guys first. Very telling wouldn't you say? You tell yourself that we think we are smarter or more intelligent. Then you try and project that accusation onto us. You should seriously take a look deep inside and think about why that might be. Could it be that what we are saying does sound more reasonable and that really upsets you? To give anything we say any serious consideration would mean to really look at your belief in a different light. You and I both know if you were to do that it would all fall apart. Yep, it all comes back to logic and reason once again. I think that is the one and only answer to Jennifers question.
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by DarkAngel:
Yeah what Road Puppy said.
I like you dude.


I like that dude too. Smiler


One of the few posters I always look forward to reading. I like yours too semiannualchick. I like your honesty when it comes to your faith. I have read post you have made where you openly admit that you just don't know. That is very respectable.
Funny things, they are...Miracles.

I ended up in a discussion with a lady I work with during my midday break the other day.

She didn't seem to have a problem with the fact that I'm a heathen-but suggested I go visit her church one time anyway.

She asked me specifically if I believed in heaven/hell and in miracles.

I don't.

Miracles are what people usually call unexpected good outcomes to bad situations.

Cancer goes into remission-it's not a miracle-it was going to happen anyway for reasons of it's own. We just don't know all those reasons yet.

Lottery ticket wins big just when ya need it most? It was gonna win about then anyway. The fact that it happened when you needed it most is coincidental. How long before ya won did ya "need it most", too?

People in Japan in 1945 survived an atomic blast in the middle of a decimated city?
They were in the right place at the right time. No divine intervention, just happenstance.

Just because ya don't believe something can happen doesn't make it happening a miracle.
Just means it was gonna happen anyway and ya just didn't expect it to.
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
Pup, Christians feel just as bad as plain old human beings when we mess up as you do.


*WHAPs forehead*

I just noticed that after reading it for the second time. LOLOLOLOL!!!!

You may feel just as bad as plain ol' human beings BUT-

Bikers have more FUN than people do!

Big Grin


I know right? hahahaha
quote:
Originally posted by DarkAngel:
I can' think of anything.

Seems to me that Christians do what ever they want any. All they have to do is ask forgiveness from God afterward. I saw a Christian do that on here last week. She told another forum member to "go to hell" and then said she would just pray and ask God to forgive her later. So obviously she felt that it was wrong to say something like that to another human being, yet decided that she could do it anyway because she had that out of forgiveness from her God.

Atheist don't think that way. Our actions and the hurts we cause do not and can not always be forgiven. We have to be more aware of the consequences of our actions. We have no easy forgiveness button that makes it all just go away.


If the person was a non-believer, go to hell didn't mean anything to them...outside their belief system. On the other hand the Christian probably meant, "You are going to hell" and just truncated the expression.

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