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I have had so many people over the years make this statement to me.

"If I believe in god and then it turns out I was wrong, I have lost nothing. If you don't believe in god and turns out your wrong you have lost everything."

I would like to give my opinion on this.

Let's say you live your whole life and you live to be 100 believing in god. You go to church every Sunday, Wednesday night and then read your bible daily. You pray before every meal, you pray during the day, you pray at bed time. You attend revivals, you go to VBS and to bible study classes. If you took all those hours and put them together collectively, I believe it would amount to years.

Then you die and nothing. There is no god, there is no heaven. You were wrong. It was a myth, a fable. What have you lost?

Years...years you could have spent more time with your children, years you could have spent with friends, years you could have spent with your spouse, years you could have been reading a science book learning more about the world around you. Years you could have been actively helping those in need. I could go on and on but you get the picture.

If you are wrong and there is no god, then yes you will have lost a lot. If this life is all we have then time is precious and any time spent on lies and superstition would be a huge waste of that time. Time you can never get back.

Now if I am wrong then I guess I will find out what I have lost. If the bible was truly as Bill and others say the literal word of god then I don't know that I could have made it to heaven anyway. My brain does not function that way. If there is a god in the end, I just have to hope that because he would be my creator he would understand my problem with belief in something that I have no proof of. I really have no other choice. I can't force my self into believing in something so lacking in real evidence.

I know all about faith. Someone on here said its like having faith in your spouse not to cheat on you (maybe thenagel?) I feel it is way more of a leap of faith than that. Ya see I have reasons to have faith in my husband. He has proven to me that he is faithful to me. It is tangible. God has not.

I hope this helps those of you that asked that question of non believers to understand a little better where we are coming from.

Life is precious and short. Live it to the fullest!

Life is short, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you SMILE!

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Jank, I spend time with family and friends now. In fact, I'm a much better friend and family member now than before God fixed me (I was in dire need of a sure nuff fixin'...lol). I also actively help those in need, which I find much less overwhelming with more hands helping me. Smiler

Of the list you gave, most are not Biblical directives for my life. That's what I meant when I said that you might consider throwing out everything you've been taught by men/women and start anew with just God and the Bible. We've been taught many things that are not Biblical and many responsibilities have been hung around our neck that are not Biblical. I'm not saying any of those things are bad idea in and of themselves, but if they are the standard by which we live, I think we missed the boat. JMHO
Where do you get years from? If you went to church for one hour every week and lived 80 years that would amount to 173 days of your life in church. I'm sure it takes longer to brush your teeth than pray so I don't think you are ever going to arrive at years.

I'm assuming this is with your wife and kids and you probably have lunch as a family afterward so how are you missing out on family time?

As for charitable isn't most charity faith based? I don't see a lot of atheist groups feeding people in Africa or building homes here.

How much time did you waste on atheist post #100,000? Wouldn't you have been better served by sitting down with your family for 1 1/2 minutes? Of course it's your time and you can choose to do with it what you wish and I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do so maybe we have arrived at something here.
Atheist post #100,001 here.

Ronnie,

This is a forum. We write what's on our minds. Jank did that. If you think that's a waste of time, perhaps you'd be happier fishing.

Regarding atheist charities, you are well aware that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are atheists, and possibly the two most charitable people on Earth. They both give billions to charities and encourage other wealthy people to do the same. The religious have no monopoly on charity.
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
I have had so many people over the years make this statement to me.

"If I believe in god and then it turns out I was wrong, I have lost nothing. If you don't believe in god and turns out your wrong you have lost everything."

I would like to give my opinion on this.

Let's say you live your whole life and you live to be 100 believing in god. You go to church every Sunday, Wednesday night and then read your bible daily. You pray before every meal, you pray during the day, you pray at bed time. You attend revivals, you go to VBS and to bible study classes. If you took all those hours and put them together collectively, I believe it would amount to years.

Then you die and nothing. There is no god, there is no heaven. You were wrong. It was a myth, a fable. What have you lost?

Years...years you could have spent more time with your children, years you could have spent with friends, years you could have spent with your spouse,
WHo is to say you could not have spent that time with your family, friends, and wife at the church? Who is to say that just because you go to curch and worship God you are not spedning time with your loved ones???
years you could have been reading a science book learning more about the world around you.

You can do that as a Christian as well, and better yet probably have a better appreciation of the world that God created for you.
Years you could have been actively helping those in need.
most Christians do spend time helping others. My church has many wonderful opportunities for you to put your faith to work ministering to those who need you help, and return supplying them with the good news that God loves them.
I could go on and on but you get the picture.

If you are wrong and there is no god, then yes you will have lost a lot. If this life is all we have then time is precious and any time spent on lies and superstition would be a huge waste of that time. Time you can never get back.

Oh really??? Because if God does not exist and there is no afterlife, how am I going to know this? How am I going to be able to regret the time I spent in church or devoted to believing his existence? On the other hand for those who do not believe or have hardened their heart to God, they will be able to spend eternity regretting the decision.....

Now if I am wrong then I guess I will find out what I have lost. If the bible was truly as Bill and others say the literal word of god then I don't know that I could have made it to heaven anyway.

Don't get caught up in what others tell you that you have to do. Read it for yourself. I believe that God only has one unforgiveable sin, and that sin is the one of refusing to believe in his existence. The Bible tells me that God says all you have to do is ask to be saved, and come in childlike faith. He takes care of the rest. How much easier could it be? No one is asking that you give up your life. I have not heard of anything that God asks you to give up that is not harmful to you anyways. How many people need to enjoy adultery? murder? stealing? Don't sell yourself short, nor think that it has to be too complicated.

My brain does not function that way. If there is a god in the end, I just have to hope that because he would be my creator he would understand my problem with belief in something that I have no proof of.

God loves you, but like any Father he will displine you. Do not mistake love and compassion for forgiveness. If you deny him on Earth, do not expect his forgiveness in the end. I really have no other choice. I can't force my self into believing in something so lacking in real evidence.

I know all about faith. Someone on here said its like having faith in your spouse not to cheat on you (maybe thenagel?) I feel it is way more of a leap of faith than that.

It is absolutely a leap of faith, but in reality it takes more effort to belive there is no God, than it does to believe there is. God has also proven himself to you. Find and demonstrate where he said he would do something and he has failed to do so? The only promise God has made thus far that has not been fulfilled is his return.

Ya see I have reasons to have faith in my husband. He has proven to me that he is faithful to me. It is tangible. God has not.

I hope this helps those of you that asked that question of non believers to understand a little better where we are coming from.

Life is precious and short. Live it to the fullest!


Again, I ask what you can enjoy that those of us who follow God do not? What pleasure in this life do you think we should indulge in to forfeit our desire to spend eternity in heaven?
quote:
Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are atheists,


In a November 2005 PBS interview by David Frost, when asked if he believed in God, Gates replied: "In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don't know if there's a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid."

Not exactly an athiest. Besides, both of those men started giving money away after they had plenty. If you have more than you could ever spend, it doesn't hurt to give some away. It is a much better man that has very little, yet still gives of what he does have to help those even less fortunant than himself.
Jank’

Within the context of the atheist mind; I’m gonna say and I think I’m right on this: the thing most atheists fear loosing would be a license to practice extramarital sex, consumption of whiskey and pot uninhibited.

Don’t tell me that in the back of every woman’s mind the thought that possibly, out there somewhere, is the final chapter on satisfaction of animal behavior. The same with men.

The alcohol and pot is a means to that end as it breaks down these “inhibitions”.

Lets be PERFECTLY CLEAR for this discussion I’m not submitting these things as being a sin or character flaw. I’m just telling you who’s on first base.
Jankinonya, I've thought about this myself and I've had the same thing said to me. I've never understood it when someone says, "well it doesn't hurt to believe it and be on the safe side", which pretty much sums up what religion all boils down to - FEAR.

However, you can't believe something if you don't believe it. If your heart and mind tells you that it isn't true, do you lie to yourself and others and say that you do believe it? If God is what everyone says he/she is, would'nt he/she know that you were lying?
To teyates, Ronnie and Joy:

I am not saying that you don't do these things now (spend time with children, helping others) what I am saying is that you could have MORE time to do these things. Time is a very very precious commodity.

teyates if the only unforgivable sin is denying gods existence than I am already lost, right?

The reason I posted this is because I have had that statement pointed at me many times. I thought you who believe that way would like to hear my answer.

teyates said:
"Oh really??? Because if God does not exist and there is no afterlife, how am I going to know this? How am I going to be able to regret the time I spent in church or devoted to believing his existence? On the other hand for those who do not believe or have hardened their heart to God, they will be able to spend eternity regretting the decision....."

Your right you won't know it. You will have just wasted that time on something not real and that is a shame. As for me spending eternity regretting....well I guess we will just have to see. I don't know that for sure...and neither do you.

Also Ronnie you said 1 hour in church a week. My experience was at least 3 hours a week in church, plus meetings that were at least an hour sometimes more depending on the preacher, VBS almost all summer at various churches, and then weekly bible study before church on Wednesday nights. Not to mention the time I spent doing my bible lessons, reading the bible and praying. So yes...years.

Also I have been told time and time again to not follow what other people of the church tell me but to read it for myself. I have. Actually if I had of just stuck to what I was being told I would probably still be a believer today. Education is a wonderful thing.

I sense a bit of anger in teyates and ronnies response to my post. Why does it make you so angry for me to state what I believe? I often wonder about that. Why do people who believe get mad when others don't? I don't believe so to me spending time worshiping a god that does not exist is a huge waste of precious time in what amounts to a very short life. You may not agree, but that is my feelings on the matter. When I am ask the question "if I am wrong about the existence of god, what have I lost?" then to me the logical answer is time.
quote:
Originally posted by StarryNight:
Jankinonya, I've thought about this myself and I've had the same thing said to me. I've never understood it when someone says, "well it doesn't hurt to believe it and be on the safe side", which pretty much sums up what religion all boils down to - FEAR.

However, you can't believe something if you don't believe it. If your heart and mind tells you that it isn't true, do you lie to yourself and others and say that you do believe it? If God is what everyone says he/she is, would'nt he/she know that you were lying?


Yes starry I agree. I can't pretend just to make others happy. If I don't believe...well I just don't believe. I am a very curious person by nature. I need answers to most things. If I don't understand then I start reading and learning till I do. The existence of god has become something that after many years of studying and investigating left me with the conclusion that it is not true.

I just can't live a lie.
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Jank’

Within the context of the atheist mind; I’m gonna say and I think I’m right on this: the thing most atheists fear loosing would be a license to practice extramarital sex, consumption of whiskey and pot uninhibited.

Don’t tell me that in the back of every woman’s mind the thought that possibly, out there somewhere, is the final chapter on satisfaction of animal behavior. The same with men.

The alcohol and pot is a means to that end as it breaks down these “inhibitions”.

Lets be PERFECTLY CLEAR for this discussion I’m not submitting these things as being a sin or character flaw. I’m just telling you who’s on first base.


LOL I really like your post rramlimnn. They usually give me a good laugh.

I can only speak for myself, but my non belief in god has nothing to do with me wanting to cheat on my husband, do drugs, or get drunk.

I will admit that 2 of those things have been a part of my life at one point or another...I'm not going to say which 2. Let your imagination run wild. Smiler
If you sense anger from me, you are sadly mistaken. I don't offer anger at all, only pity and sorrow to see that someone can be so troubled and misled and think that by serving God they are giving up something. As of yet, you nor anyone else on this forum have told me one thing that I have given up by believing in God and Jesus Christ. Perhaps there is omething there that you can use to convince me what I am giving up.
As for family, I think some of the most treasured times I can remember with my children involved things that took place around church, whther it was camp, VBS, or just some fellowship.
And you are right, if I am wrong, I will not know it, but if you are wrong then what have you gained? and what have I lost?
The sin of an unbeliever can certainly be resolved. Until you are dead it is never too late.
What happened to you that convinced you that you wasted your time with your beliefs?
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
If you sense anger from me, you are sadly mistaken. I don't offer anger at all, only pity and sorrow to see that someone can be so troubled and misled and think that by serving God they are giving up something. As of yet, you nor anyone else on this forum have told me one thing that I have given up by believing in God and Jesus Christ. Perhaps there is omething there that you can use to convince me what I am giving up.
As for family, I think some of the most treasured times I can remember with my children involved things that took place around church, whther it was camp, VBS, or just some fellowship.
And you are right, if I am wrong, I will not know it, but if you are wrong then what have you gained? and what have I lost?
The sin of an unbeliever can certainly be resolved. Until you are dead it is never too late.
What happened to you that convinced you that you wasted your time with your beliefs?


I'm really not trying to CONVINCE you of anything. Truly I am not. I only wanted to answer a question that has been ask of me many times. However I still don't think you understand my point so I will say it another way.

Lets say you back a certain politician. He stands for everything you believe in and say that when he takes office he will do certain things that you want to see carried out and installed in your government. you believe him wholeheartedly. You spend weekends putting up signs. You spend hours stuffing envelopes sending out flyers to support him. You attend rallies for him. You even get your kids involved and you have fun doing some campaigning together. You talk to neighbors on his behalf to get their vote. You spend your on hard earned money to contribute to his campaign.

The election takes place and your guy wins!!! He takes office and does nothing he said he would do. Matter of fact he does the exact opposite of what he said he would do. Would you feel like you had wasted your precious time? I know I would.

So now I say again. When ask by some who are christians, "If I am wrong and there is no god, what have I lost" my answer is your own personal precious time. I am not trying to convince you to stop believing in your god. That is simply my answer to that question. Because if there is no god then that is exactly what you have lost.

As for what happened to my religion. I explained in detail in the post "Here for the seekers" but I will say it really boiled down to education and reading the bible for myself.

No need to pity me or feel sorry for me. I am neither confused or misled. I live a very happy life, believe it or not with out praying to a god. I understand that you need that. I get that. I would never tell you that you should give it up, some people would not be whole without religion.
Jank, Joy has the right idea. You don't lose time believeing in God and He is not only present on Sundays and Wednesdays. I rarely attend church in a building with a big sign out front, but I don't need that to read the Bible and discuss it with my family. Remember what nagel said, religion is evil, faith is not. If we are wrong we won't find out until we die. After that it really won't matter.


quote:
Of the list you gave, most are not Biblical directives for my life. That's what I meant when I said that you might consider throwing out everything you've been taught by men/women and start anew with just God and the Bible. We've been taught many things that are not Biblical and many responsibilities have been hung around our neck that are not Biblical. I'm not saying any of those things are bad idea in and of themselves, but if they are the standard by which we live, I think we missed the boat. JMHO
Jank, at least for me -- I go to church with my family and we have family dinner after church every Sunday. If we didn't go to church together I don't know that we would do that. We'd probably go to Wal-mart alone and live separate lives. I also go to church with several of my best friends -- so I'm spending time with them and sharing them with my family and their family at the same time. If I didn't go to church I don't know that those things -- family friends and happiness -- would be as much a part of my every day life as they are right now and to be quite honest -- I don't want to find out any different.

My faith gets me through the dark times. Just knowing in my heart that there is a bigger plan and someone else standing beside me while I go through this crazy world -- is sanity in and of itself. It's not everyone's sanity, but it is mine.
quote:
Originally posted by Eastside:
Jank, at least for me -- I go to church with my family and we have family dinner after church every Sunday. If we didn't go to church together I don't know that we would do that. We'd probably go to Wal-mart alone and live separate lives. I also go to church with several of my best friends -- so I'm spending time with them and sharing them with my family and their family at the same time. If I didn't go to church I don't know that those things -- family friends and happiness -- would be as much a part of my every day life as they are right now and to be quite honest -- I don't want to find out any different.

My faith gets me through the dark times. Just knowing in my heart that there is a bigger plan and someone else standing beside me while I go through this crazy world -- is sanity in and of itself. It's not everyone's sanity, but it is mine.


I don't know where or how you worship, so I can only go by my own personal experiences with it. When I went to church we got to the building maybe had some time to say hello to some friends then sat down in the pew and paid attention to the preacher, then off to Sunday school class for everyone. There were 4 or us kids and we were never in the same age group/class so for that time we were not together. So you say you are spending time "together" but in my experience we had very little interaction with each other, we were mostly sitting quietly as a preacher spoke or the lords supper was being passed around when we were with our parents in the auditorium.

One of my favorite things to do with my kids on a Sunday morning was go on a nature walk. We went all over this area and sometimes we traveled an hour or so to get to a nice spot. On the way there we talked and laughed and had a great time. We would sometimes leave right after breakfast and not return till dark. Sunday's was my all time favorite day of the week.

I will say once again that I am not in anyway trying to convince believers to stop believing. Its not my place. I am only talking about my own personal views and experiences.
I know -- Jank. I just know that the fellowship I have with my family and with my church family are important to my life. I go to a small country church that we all know each other. I am not a fan of "big church" that have more programs than they do fellowship. We do sit and listen to the preacher, but during the song service and even sunday school we are interacting with each other as well as the Lord. It's not a sit on your hands experience but we are not hanging from the rafters either.

After the hour or so at church, we go back to the house with friends and family and fellowship and have lunch and watch TV and read the paper and spend time with each other. We'll usually take a nap before heading back that night again. And Wednesday night is a Bible Study -- not just sitting an dlistening -- participating in a Bible Study and we usually go eat at Cracker Barrell or one of the fast food places afterward as well. And Vacation Bible School for the kids is always a lot of fun -- I teach and the kids rotate from room to room to participate in study, singing, crafts and snacks.

If you had experienced what I have known all of my life, you might would have a different view of it. I am very blessed in the life I have in my faith. I wish everyone were as fortunate to see it the way I do, but it doesn't mean you aren't still blessed -- you just have a different view of things -- and that is ok.
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Jank’

Within the context of the atheist mind; I’m gonna say and I think I’m right on this: the thing most atheists fear loosing would be a license to practice extramarital sex, consumption of whiskey and pot uninhibited.

Don’t tell me that in the back of every woman’s mind the thought that possibly, out there somewhere, is the final chapter on satisfaction of animal behavior. The same with men.

The alcohol and pot is a means to that end as it breaks down these “inhibitions”.

Lets be PERFECTLY CLEAR for this discussion I’m not submitting these things as being a sin or character flaw. I’m just telling you who’s on first base.


Oh that's not oversimplifying, rram. People choose to be atheists only because being a Christian requires them to stop partaking in debauchery. Roll Eyes

Anyway, I've got news for you: Christians sin all the time!
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Jank’

Within the context of the atheist mind; I’m gonna say and I think I’m right on this: the thing most atheists fear loosing would be a license to practice extramarital sex, consumption of whiskey and pot uninhibited.

Don’t tell me that in the back of every woman’s mind the thought that possibly, out there somewhere, is the final chapter on satisfaction of animal behavior. The same with men.

The alcohol and pot is a means to that end as it breaks down these “inhibitions”.

Lets be PERFECTLY CLEAR for this discussion I’m not submitting these things as being a sin or character flaw. I’m just telling you who’s on first base.


Oh that's not oversimplifying, rram. People choose to be atheists only because being a Christian requires them to stop partaking in debauchery. Roll Eyes

Anyway, I've got news for you: Christians sin all the time!


Where did you get the idea these items are sinful?

They are perfectly normal practices. Do you argue they are not?

As an atheist would you insist premarital sex is taboo?

If so; on what grounds?
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Jank’

Within the context of the atheist mind; I’m gonna say and I think I’m right on this: the thing most atheists fear loosing would be a license to practice extramarital sex, consumption of whiskey and pot uninhibited.

Don’t tell me that in the back of every woman’s mind the thought that possibly, out there somewhere, is the final chapter on satisfaction of animal behavior. The same with men.

The alcohol and pot is a means to that end as it breaks down these “inhibitions”.

Lets be PERFECTLY CLEAR for this discussion I’m not submitting these things as being a sin or character flaw. I’m just telling you who’s on first base.


Oh that's not oversimplifying, rram. People choose to be atheists only because being a Christian requires them to stop partaking in debauchery. Roll Eyes

Anyway, I've got news for you: Christians sin all the time!


Where did you get the idea these items are sinful?

They are perfectly normal practices. Do you argue they are not?

As an atheist would you insist premarital sex is taboo?

If so; on what grounds?


I've always heard that you have to be intelligent to constantly speak in riddles. Your attempt is laughable, rram. You only speak in nonsense.
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Soooo Jank,

You seem to say it is ok , in the eye of the atheist wives, a husband should not be forbidden to have protected sex with a chick of his choice. Don’t trap yourself in the corner Bill Joe spends a lot of time


I didn't say that. I said I did not think PREMARITAL SEX was a sin or taboo. That would have been my husband's sex life before our marriage.

Am I ok with my husband having sex with someone else? No way jose! I would pack him up and ship him out before he knew what hit him. Do I think it is a sin...no. It would be a violation of trust, a betrayal, and heartbreaking, but not a sin.

Am I in the corner yet? Do I get a pointy hat if I make it?
Jank,

I‘m having a hard time seeing consistency here. On the one hand there are those who see that living the life of a non-atheist are bound by imaginary based rules which should not be bound on a person and on the other hand you have no problem denying your husband the freedom to “plow the furrows, living life to the lees” without suffering some penalty based simply on unconcluded wisdom of stored knowledge.


No hat yet. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Jank,

I‘m having a hard time seeing consistency here. On the one hand there are those who see that living the life of a non-atheist are bound by imaginary based rules which should not be bound on a person and on the other hand you have no problem denying your husband the freedom to “plow the furrows, living life to the lees” without suffering some penalty based simply on unconcluded wisdom of stored knowledge.


No hat yet. Wink


let me try to help.

1- premarital sex is ok, but not a good idea because of STDs and unexpected pregnancy.
2- cheating on your spouse is not ok, because you've made a promise to them not to.

it isn't necessary for either thing to be a Sin to be wrong, or at least, unwise.

there is not conflict, you're simply trying to invent one to try and prove that not believing is god prevents you from behaving in a moral fasion.

right is right, and wrong is wrong, whether you believe in god or not.
quote:
Do I think it is a sin...no. It would be a violation of trust, a betrayal, and heartbreaking, but not a sin.



Oh, no way. Adultery is a class A felony! Smiler
Major sin.
But Nagel, you are right, in that there is a 'moral code' despite what one's belief is.
If you are talking sin- yes, adultery is very much a sin. So is premarital sex.
Much love,
Debbie Downer.
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Soooo Jank,

You seem to say it is ok , in the eye of the atheist wives, a husband should not be forbidden to have protected sex with a chick of his choice. Don’t trap yourself in the corner Bill Joe spends a lot of time


rram, you miserable liar.

When did I say that cheating on a trusting wife is OK? Show me. Bring it here.

I am convinced that you are about half a step behind Bill Gray in your cognitive disability. Perhaps you should take up bream fishing instead of posting here. You're simply embarrassing yourself in your dotage.
Ps 14:1 For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works; There is none that doeth good.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he , ye shall die in your sins.

I used to be a Furnace Operator and we usually ran that thing about 1400 degrees, but when we had to clean it out and rebuild it, it cooled off and we would have to get inside and Jackhammer the buildup off and clean it out, and then it was my job to cure it out and bring it back up to where it was hot all the way through, and I would heat it gradually to 2300
degrees, there was no metal in it and it would get so hot that I couldn't tell where the Floor stopped and the wall started, it just looked white and fuzzy, and I thought then how awful it would be to be inside that thing and I decided that I would try my best not to ever find out, you unbelievers and fun makers, it is waiting on you and that is nothing like God has planned for you, and heres the simple part , you don't have to do a single thing to be able to enjoy it.
quote:
Originally posted by prince albert:
Ps 14:1 For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works; There is none that doeth good.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he , ye shall die in your sins.

I used to be a Furnace Operator and we usually ran that thing about 1400 degrees, but when we had to clean it out and rebuild it, it cooled off and we would have to get inside and Jackhammer the buildup off and clean it out, and then it was my job to cure it out and bring it back up to where it was hot all the way through, and I would heat it gradually to 2300
degrees, there was no metal in it and it would get so hot that I couldn't tell where the Floor stopped and the wall started, it just looked white and fuzzy, and I thought then how awful it would be to be inside that thing and I decided that I would try my best not to ever find out, you unbelievers and fun makers, it is waiting on you and that is nothing like God has planned for you, and heres the simple part , you don't have to do a single thing to be able to enjoy it.


Now your sounding like a true church of christer! Will you be disappointed if I don't get to "enjoy" what god has planned for me? You seem to be looking forward to it.

I might be afraid if I believed in such silly things like hell. Instead it just makes me chuckle. Its like threatening a child that Santa Claus won't bring them any presents if they don't behave.

To think I actually appreciated your earlier post. What happened to THAT guy?
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Jank,

I‘m having a hard time seeing consistency here. On the one hand there are those who see that living the life of a non-atheist are bound by imaginary based rules which should not be bound on a person and on the other hand you have no problem denying your husband the freedom to “plow the furrows, living life to the lees” without suffering some penalty based simply on unconcluded wisdom of stored knowledge.


No hat yet. Wink


(get the hat ready)

Either I am really tired or the pain meds have kicked in, because I can't make sense of what you are trying to say. How was I being inconsistent?

Nothing in life is a sin. Nothing. I don't believe in sin. Sin is a religious term that is a violation of some commandment or directive of god. How could I believe in sin.

Cheating on a spouse is wrong because you have made a commitment to one person, and promised to not share yourself with anyone else.

Pre-Marital sex, is not really a good idea but its not a sin. If you have not committed to anyone then you can pretty much do as you please in the love department. There are some pretty serious consequences to having promiscuous sex but sinning in my view is not one of them.
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Soooo Jank,

You seem to say it is ok , in the eye of the atheist wives, a husband should not be forbidden to have protected sex with a chick of his choice. Don’t trap yourself in the corner Bill Joe spends a lot of time


rram, you miserable liar.

When did I say that cheating on a trusting wife is OK? Show me. Bring it here.

I am convinced that you are about half a step behind Bill Gray in your cognitive disability. Perhaps you should take up bream fishing instead of posting here. You're simply embarrassing yourself in your dotage.


Wul good grief Bill Joe,

The apes you claim for cousins go-round humping one another without regard.

Why would the atheist assume humans should be burdened with faithfulness when the natural thing for us is to procreate un-inhibited.

You must, by that logic insist that your monkey enter into a contract of faithfulness.

And you need to have a word with my rooster.

Further:

There has to be a macabre underlying reason why you have attached your self to the belief that you must somehow convince the world that there is no God.

I know my cleverness with reason hath driven you a little closer to madness ; that “corner “ has got to be demeaning but you must gain control of your faculties, cause yourself no further embarrassment and tend your self inflicted wounds.
Last edited by rramlimnn
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Soooo Jank,

You seem to say it is ok , in the eye of the atheist wives, a husband should not be forbidden to have protected sex with a chick of his choice. Don’t trap yourself in the corner Bill Joe spends a lot of time


rram, you miserable liar.

When did I say that cheating on a trusting wife is OK? Show me. Bring it here.

I am convinced that you are about half a step behind Bill Gray in your cognitive disability. Perhaps you should take up bream fishing instead of posting here. You're simply embarrassing yourself in your dotage.


Wul good grief Bill Joe,

The apes you claim for cousins go-round humping one another without regard.

Why would the atheist assume humans should be burdened with faithfulness when the natural thing for us is to procreate un-inhibited.

You must, by that logic insist that your monkey enter into a contract of faithfulness.

And you need to have a word with my rooster.

Further:

There has to be a macabre underlying reason why you have attached your self to the belief that you must somehow convince the world that there is no God.

I know my cleverness with reason hath driven you a little closer to madness ; that “corner “ has got to be demeaning but you must gain control of your faculties, cause yourself no further embarrassment and tend your self inflicted wounds.


ROFLMFAO

OOOomg.. .this guy is a bigger whackjob than bill is.

monkies don't enter contracts, so humans don't either?

This is 'reason and cleverness' ?
quote:
Originally posted by prince albert:
such silly things like hell? I will go and leave you and your true Friends to make plans for what all you are going to do when you all get there.


I really wish the kind prince albert would just come back, but if he can't then I guess I will not consider you one of my friends. If I believed in hell, I still would not wish you there. I wish you a happy life. Smiler
quote:
I really wish the kind prince albert would just come back, but if he can't then I guess I will not consider you one of my friends. If I believed in hell, I still would not wish you there. I wish you a happy life.



Agreed. After hanging with you people I'm beginning to question the existence of Hell. If I am to be honest with myself, much of it just doesn't make sense when you think too deeply about it.

But even I as a believer would never presume someone else's ultimate destination. Especially when I don't have all the facts. Not only is that just plain stupid but it is assuming the authority of God. That is what is called heresy in some circles.

The fact of it is that none of us really know (from an intellectual standpoint) what happens after death. My faith tells me one thing but my intellect suggests other possibilities. Oddly, for me to deny those other possibilities would be a crime against my faith since my faith insists on honesty - intellectual and otherwise.

For someone like Price to presume judgement against another human being and claim that someone as gentle as you, Jank, are to suffer eternally for the great sin of thinking too hard is so Old Testament.

Shouldn't we be beyond that now?
Bill G.

I’m disappointed you continue to try talking down to my good friend Bro. Bill G. he has done no other harm to you than make a fool out of you.

Rather than face him one on one you marshal your small army of the easily entertained.

Like myself ,I’m sure, Bro. Bill G. finds himself somewhat ashamed of toying with the unarmed rhetorician and I apologize.

At this point; I suggest you invent some reason you could publish that causes the least injury to yourself and your confederates will blame their misfortunate choice on the luck of the draw.
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Bill G.

I’m disappointed you continue to try talking down to my good friend Bro. Bill G. he has done no other harm to you than make a fool out of you.

Rather than face him one on one you marshal your small army of the easily entertained.

Like myself ,I’m sure, Bro. Bill G. finds himself somewhat ashamed of toying with the unarmed rhetorician and I apologize.

At this point; I suggest you invent some reason you could publish that causes the least injury to yourself and your confederates will blame their misfortunate choice on the luck of the draw.


WHAT in GOD's name are you TALKING about??

step one:
Put down the pipe / bong / bottle / pills.

step two:
take a long nap to let whatever you're on to get out of your system.

step three:
try to post something on these forums that makes more sense than a chimpanze with parkinsons on paxil.


perhaps you think you are making profound and biting comments, but so far you sound a lot like a jibbering idiot.
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Bill G.

I’m disappointed you continue to try talking down to my good friend Bro. Bill G. he has done no other harm to you than make a fool out of you.

Rather than face him one on one you marshal your small army of the easily entertained.

Like myself ,I’m sure, Bro. Bill G. finds himself somewhat ashamed of toying with the unarmed rhetorician and I apologize.

At this point; I suggest you invent some reason you could publish that causes the least injury to yourself and your confederates will blame their misfortunate choice on the luck of the draw.


rramlimnn,

I'm not always sure when you are joking or when you are serious.

Are you seriously saying that Bill Gray has made a fool out of Billy Joe Billy Gene? Where?

Who is BJBG's army? His confederates?

I really hope this is just another one of your funny post or else I am now concerned for your mental state.

Stay with us..focus...try and grab reality with both hands....ok? Smiler

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