What if we are wrong?

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:
Whew. I'm glad I'm not the only one having difficulty deciphering Ramlin's posts. I thought I needed to go to remedial reading.
Ram- I think you have lots to say- and I look forward to reading your views, but man, I don't quite get you!

Forget it, v. Rram types lots of words but never a coherent sentence.

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Bill G.

I’m disappointed you continue to try talking down to my good friend Bro. Bill G. he has done no other harm to you than make a fool out of you.

Rather than face him one on one you marshal your small army of the easily entertained.

Like myself ,I’m sure, Bro. Bill G. finds himself somewhat ashamed of toying with the unarmed rhetorician and I apologize.

At this point; I suggest you invent some reason you could publish that causes the least injury to yourself and your confederates will blame their misfortunate choice on the luck of the draw.

WHAT in GOD's name are you TALKING about??

step one:
Put down the pipe / bong / bottle / pills.

step two:
take a long nap to let whatever you're on to get out of your system.

step three:
try to post something on these forums that makes more sense than a chimpanze with parkinsons on paxil.


perhaps you think you are making profound and biting comments, but so far you sound a lot like a jibbering idiot.

Read much Nagel? Apparantly not.

I swear this assymblege of dawkins deacons gets dumber with each pledge.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Bill G.

I’m disappointed you continue to try talking down to my good friend Bro. Bill G. he has done no other harm to you than make a fool out of you.

Rather than face him one on one you marshal your small army of the easily entertained.

Like myself ,I’m sure, Bro. Bill G. finds himself somewhat ashamed of toying with the unarmed rhetorician and I apologize.

At this point; I suggest you invent some reason you could publish that causes the least injury to yourself and your confederates will blame their misfortunate choice on the luck of the draw.

rramlimnn,

I'm not always sure when you are joking or when you are serious.

Are you seriously saying that Bill Gray has made a fool out of Billy Joe Billy Gene? Where?

Who is BJBG's army? His confederates?

I really hope this is just another one of your funny post or else I am now concerned for your mental state.

Stay with us..focus...try and grab reality with both hands....ok?

Jank dear,

The post was directed to Bill G.

He understands every word I post.

If you are not very well read you and others more than likely will not understand my posts.

Most of my posts contain tidbits influenced by the observations of important notables in history.

For instance: the post in question was heavily Plato influenced.

You can rest assured; anything I say that one might accuse as trying to be prolific is not my invention.



I hope this helps.

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Bill G.

I’m disappointed you continue to try talking down to my good friend Bro. Bill G. he has done no other harm to you than make a fool out of you.

Rather than face him one on one you marshal your small army of the easily entertained.

Like myself ,I’m sure, Bro. Bill G. finds himself somewhat ashamed of toying with the unarmed rhetorician and I apologize.

At this point; I suggest you invent some reason you could publish that causes the least injury to yourself and your confederates will blame their misfortunate choice on the luck of the draw.

rramlimnn,

I'm not always sure when you are joking or when you are serious.

Are you seriously saying that Bill Gray has made a fool out of Billy Joe Billy Gene? Where?

Who is BJBG's army? His confederates?

I really hope this is just another one of your funny post or else I am now concerned for your mental state.

Stay with us..focus...try and grab reality with both hands....ok?

Jank dear,

The post was directed to Bill G.

He understands every word I post.

If you are not very well read you and others more than likely will not understand my posts.

Most of my posts contain tidbits influenced by the observations of important notables in history.

For instance: the post in question was heavily Plato influenced.

You can rest assured; anything I say that one might accuse as trying to be prolific is not my invention.



I hope this helps.

I read this an hour ago and I'm still LMAO. I guess there's something to that "different wavelength" model after all.

I have to say that after re-reading it with Plato in mind, it made a LITTLE more sense. Greek history and literature was not fore most in my mind when I originally read it. However even now I am not sure which part of that history you are referencing.

Demosthenes and the Olynthians maybe?

Is it possible to just stick with the here and now, and make your post more accessible to all who read it? I personally want to discuss these issues of religion with you and would love to be able to do so without deciphering each sentence and trying to fit it to a historical figure or time. Am I asking too much of you Rram? You have the right to answer however you like but please understand that you might reach more people with what you have to say if you speak more plainly. In other words...say what you mean, and mean what you say.

You are obviously more articulate and well read than the average person. Please don't beat us over the head with it.

But please don't stop being funny either...you do make me laugh and not in a condescending manner. Your just plain funny.

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Bill G.

I’m disappointed you continue to try talking down to my good friend Bro. Bill G. he has done no other harm to you than make a fool out of you.

Rather than face him one on one you marshal your small army of the easily entertained.

Like myself ,I’m sure, Bro. Bill G. finds himself somewhat ashamed of toying with the unarmed rhetorician and I apologize.

At this point; I suggest you invent some reason you could publish that causes the least injury to yourself and your confederates will blame their misfortunate choice on the luck of the draw.

WHAT in GOD's name are you TALKING about??

step one:
Put down the pipe / bong / bottle / pills.

step two:
take a long nap to let whatever you're on to get out of your system.

step three:
try to post something on these forums that makes more sense than a chimpanze with parkinsons on paxil.


perhaps you think you are making profound and biting comments, but so far you sound a lot like a jibbering idiot.

Read much Nagel? Apparantly not.

I swear this assymblege of dawkins deacons gets dumber with each pledge.

ROFLMAO..
rama, if you only knew.

Oops!! I shudder dear Jank,

You suggest I’m trying to “reach” someone.

Rest assured; if there is a burning hell I’ll not lift a hand to save y’all from it.

It’s every man for himself.

I have been associated with the assemblage CoC for 68 years and have never felt threatened by the small amount of rhetoric I agree with let alone the huge amount of cannon fodder which I do not agree. I like the people the fellowship and enjoy to some extent the territorial contortions of human nature.

Folks are going to express themselves; some agree with them and some do not.

Personally I don’t agree with Puppy using his medial claw as a badge of indifference but what the hey. You know?

I doubt I will change my presentations but I promise I will not allude to anything not good for your consumption.

I suggest you think for yourself and not be influenced by these other victims of learned helplessness.

They are easily recognized. They claim not to believe in GOD.

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Oops!! I shudder dear Jank,

You suggest I’m trying to “reach” someone.

Rest assured; if there is a burning hell I’ll not lift a hand to save y’all from it.

It’s every man for himself.

You're right, I should not have used the word "reach" because I really don't think you are here for that. I should have said "If you want more people to understand your point of view." Which you may not care about either.

quote:

I have been associated with the assemblage CoC for 68 years and have never felt threatened by the small amount of rhetoric I agree with let alone the huge amount of cannon fodder which I do not agree. I like the people the fellowship and enjoy to some extent the territorial contortions of human nature.

Sounds like someone else I dearly loved. My maternal grandfather. He and my grandmother attended a different COC than the one we went to, but he told me one time that he would not go at all if were not for that fact that everyone he knew and liked to talk to went there. He said "How would I keep up with my buddies if I didn't see them on Sunday's" He worked as a farmer and didn't have much time for socializing. That was his only break and time to visit with his friends.

quote:

I doubt I will change my presentations but I promise I will not allude to anything not good for your consumption.

Here is a perfect example of something you have said/posted that makes me smile. You can be a grumpy gus I think sometimes, but dog gone it I like the way you say things. hehehe

quote:

I suggest you think for yourself and not be influenced by these other victims of learned helplessness.

They are easily recognized. They claim not to believe in GOD.

Well I can assure you that I do think for myself. I have never been a very good follower. Hence the leaving of a church my whole family and pretty much every friend I had at the time and choosing a different path. Maybe that's what I like about you rram. I sense a kindred spirit. We might not agree on a lot of things but we look at our own views as OURS and not easily swayed by opinion. Thats not to say I won't take something someone says and mull it over or give it a fair chance, but it usually doesn't take me long to decide if it fits me or not.

quote:

If you are not very well read you and others more than likely will not understand my posts.

I consider myself such and, sorry, but I don't get it either. Not even with the reference to Plato (is that supposed to impress us?) Your posts come off bitter, spiteful and hateful and mostly incoherent. Pretty much par for the course for a fundamentalist.

You may be well-read but well-writing needs a little work. English is a beautiful language for effective communication. Use it.

quote:

Originally posted by Sofa King:

quote:

If you are not very well read you and others more than likely will not understand my posts.

I consider myself such and, sorry, but I don't get it either. Not even with the reference to Plato (is that supposed to impress us?) Your posts come off bitter, spiteful and hateful and mostly incoherent. Pretty much par for the course for a fundamentalist.

You may be well-read but well-writing needs a little work. English is a beautiful language for effective communication. Use it.

I may be wrong Sofa and it could come back to bite me the *** but I think for the most part Rram is just having fun with it. If you look closer he will show his true feelings on the subject and I don't think he is as fundamentalist as Bill, not by a long shot.

As I said I could be wrong but I just have this feeling....

quote:

Originally posted by Sofa King:

quote:

If you are not very well read you and others more than likely will not understand my posts.

I consider myself such and, sorry, but I don't get it either. Not even with the reference to Plato (is that supposed to impress us?) Your posts come off bitter, spiteful and hateful and mostly incoherent. Pretty much par for the course for a fundamentalist.

You may be well-read but well-writing needs a little work. English is a beautiful language for effective communication. Use it.

Sofa,

Here’s hoping, by chance, it makes you feel better; I didn’t understand what you writ down.

quote:

Rest assured; if there is a burning hell I’ll not lift a hand to save y’all from it.

spoke like a christian. How's that love thing working for you?

I love you Bill G. but don’t get too comfortable.

Even God gets pissed off

Forgive me for butting into your conversation with Bill Gray, but yeah.... god gets PO'd quite regularly.

Well, at least he used to. Maybe he still does.

The Pentateuch is a compendium of god's getting PO'd. Ask the Amelikites, if you can find one.

And then, there's the god of Jesus, meek and mild. Oh, so generous, but vicious in his rejection. Even in light of his seemingly deliberate non-existence. Jealous, and only capable of offering redemption (from what we can only imagine) to those who abandon reason and accept his fairytaleness. Jesus introduced us to Hell. How sweet.

A pox on this entire mindset. If there is a god, show him to me, prove him to me, deliver him in a test tube or in person, but until then....


I reject him.

That's not entirely honest, for to reject him, I'd have to accept the possibility of him. I reject that he's possible and certainly that he's probable.

Prove me wrong. Bring on god. Let's see your evidence. Right not, right here.

You have nothing. Bill Gray, in his idiotic dotage, writes volumes of nothingness regarding atheists. I write three words: You have nothing.

What if I am wrong? What if YOU are wrong? What if Thor is the Man? What if Allah is The Way? What about Quetzalcoatl? If you believe in the supernatural, then your chances are one in thousands that you are right.

Show me one reason to believe in anything supernatural.

I'm right here. Go ahead, show me now.

You have nothing.

You have nothing.

Bill G.

What gave you the idea I was in a conversation with Bro Bill G ?

Show you something? Actually it is impossible to see it from your position.

You are going to have to move.

BJBG,

Your right, there is no proof of god. I have never been able to find one bit, no matter how small, of real evidence that there is a god.

I don't really know why religion (of all flavors) is so gaurded and fostered still to this day. A day and age in which science has answered so many one time mysteries of this world. Our knowledge and understanding of natural disasters and diseases are now known and easily explainable, but yet there are many that still believe it is god's will and his doing. Only a few short years ago there were those that openly stated that hurricane Katrina was a direct result of sin in the city of New Orleans. God punished the people for their sins by destroying their city. The only thing missing was a woman turned to a pillar of salt and angels coming to the French quarter and warning a righteous family, otherwise we have heard this story before. It couldn't have had ANYTHING to do with insufficient levees, ocean temps, or jet streams. That would be absurd.

I understand your frustration. I feel it too. How are we so evolved and advanced and yet there are still so many of us human beings that believe in something so archaic and unsubstantiated? All around them are the answers to their questions. All around them is proof for the whys and the hows. Yet they still believe in a superstition and live their lives around a myth. Why?

How can they believe with such certainty that their chosen deity is THE ONE out of all the choices? How is that even truly possible to believe. Does the mind not insists on a deeper look at why there are so many? How could there be so many deeply held beliefs in so many different versions of a similar concept? It seems so simple to people like us BJBG. We understand how it started. We understand the nature of humans to want answers to why things happen. It makes sense to me that at an age where simple things like hurricanes were completely unexplainable man would try and come up with the best answer they could at the time. The gods are angry. What I can't explain is the same belief after all we know still being used in the year 2010.

What I believe is that it has become less of an explanation of why things happen and how we got here, to a purely spiritual thing. Religion is something that a lot of people just have to have to be happy. For them it is a way to shield themselves from the horrors of a very harsh world so to speak. When it gets really bad they pray to god. They feel better. It makes them feel stronger and more able to face what they once thought they could not bear. They have god on their side. You have to admit that does sound nice. Its not that they are ignorant of science and the reasons for the tides or why there are earthquakes. It just feels good to believe in a loving protector and the promise of a beautiful, peaceful afterlife once this cruel life is over.

Of course this is only my opinion. I am sure that many will tell me that is not why they are religious at all.

I don't feel a need to convince them that they are wrong. Its wrong FOR ME,but not necessarily wrong for them. If they would only stop trying to integrate their beliefs into our government, education and laws I would have absolutely no problem with christianity. If the prejudice against atheist or agnostics were not so, I would have even less of a care about religion.

They don't have to show us any reason at all to believe as they do. All they have to do is accept that it is THEIR belief and leave it at that. However if they seriously want me to believe then yes, they have a lot of work to do. I have yet to see any real evidence to support it and I personally have to have that to get behind anything that is going to have that kind of power over my life.


Folks on here like VP, thenagel, Sofa get this and I respect them for that. There are others on here that I have HUGE problems with because they are not satisfied to live their lives as they see fit and respect my right to do the same. To those folks I repeat your demand. Show me one reason to believe.

There are obviously some very intelligent people on this forum that believe in god. I have to believe that it is right for them and what makes them happy. I just can't find happiness and comfort in the same.

Very well said, Jank. I agree with you.

You can be rather eloquent!

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Very well said, Jank. I agree with you.

You can be rather eloquent!

Yes yes Jank

This is about as deep as Bill G. can fathom.

Here he admits it.

I must alert the science world. You two have it figgered out.

What pitiful commentary.

Presently another deer in the headlights will jump in.

I can't find where Bill Gray has chimed into this discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
I can't find where Bill Gray has chimed into this discussion.

Yo mammy and pappy chose your initials. Not me.

Sooner or later I’m gonna call y’all out on knowing how everything works and ask you how we and the universe all started.

If you say the big bang I’m gonna have to insist you bring forth the body.

If you want to say that we as scientist have a theory and research is in favor of that being the case; I’ll accept that but don’t tell me you know for sure the sun comes up because it may have something to do with the Earth turning on it’s axis.

rram,

As usual, you're making no sense at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
rram,

As usual, you're making no sense at all.

Bill G,

I cannot believe you insist on believing a notion based simply on your imagination that I don’t make sense when it is clear to anyone with a whit of reckoning that “All around them is proof for the whys and the hows. Yet” (yourself) “still believe"(s) "in a superstition and live” (your life) “around a myth. Why?”.[Jank]

Bill G.

Comes forth now Jank, an admitted confederate of yours, (“It seems so simple to people like us BJBG. We understand how it started. We understand the nature of humans to want answers to why things happen” )[Jank], a novice to atheism, in travail. lamenting has apprenticed herself.

I hope in the end the cost to her is not disappointment.

She belabors the effect religion has on her. (“If they would only stop trying to integrate their beliefs into our government, education and laws“) [Jank]; she points out religion and it’s man-made inconsistencies; as reason the rest of us cannot believe in God.

At the same time Bill G. we never see the same disposition for politics, sports, social groups, charities etc. which also effect government, education and laws. You pipple seem to only harp on believers.

This is total heresy in the face of logic.

I hereby insist you set an example to her and others by saturating intentional confusion with your absence.

Hi Rram,

Please, my Friend, do me a BIG FAVOR. Call him Deep, call him Billy Bob, or don't even call him.

But, please stop calling him Bill G. God forbid anyone should ever put that name on our DEEP Friend. We do not want to insult him or make him feel bad. Can you imagine his chagrin if anyone would mistake him for being Bill Gray?

How would he EVER face his friends in the Hollywood bars, and especially the West Hollywood bars -- if they thought he was secretly Bill Gray, the Fundamentalist?

So, please have mercy on our dear Friend -- and call him DEEP or DeepFAT!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

You could be wrong.

This could be the correct way. It makes as much sense as anything religious.

http://www.viddler.com/explore...VsReligion/videos/8/

That is what I was talking about. "Religion" becoming a cult following of men, not God.

Also remember, there are crazies who kill who are not religious. The world is full of crazies.

My dear b50,

The entire discussion of god is a religious discussion. Belief in a god is entirely a religious endeavor.

You may not say that god and religion are different. That's like saying Birmingham and Alabama are different.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
My dear b50,

The entire discussion of god is a religious discussion. Belief in a god is entirely a religious endeavor.

You may not say that god and religion are different. That's like saying Birmingham and Alabama are different.

dude.. they ARE different....


Ask jodi foster what she really thinks about what john hinkly did 'for her'.


just because someone claims knowledge of god, doesn't mean they have a clue.

religion is the john hinkley to jodi fosters god.

this is a poor examlple because god whould surly have bigger boobs - but you get the idea.

this is why i say i have faith, not religion.
religion kills.. faith saves

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Rram,

Please, my Friend, do me a BIG FAVOR. Call him Deep, call him Billy Bob, or don't even call him.

But, please stop calling him Bill G. God forbid anyone should ever put that name on our DEEP Friend. We do not want to insult him or make him feel bad. Can you imagine his chagrin if anyone would mistake him for being Bill Gray?

How would he EVER face his friends in the Hollywood bars, and especially the West Hollywood bars -- if they thought he was secretly Bill Gray, the Fundamentalist?

So, please have mercy on our dear Friend -- and call him DEEP or DeepFAT!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bro. Bill,

I will consider your request but for the time being I feel Bill G. needs the character association. His choir is constantly off key, his deacons are asleep, and consistantly preaches intentional confusion.

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
My dear b50,

The entire discussion of god is a religious discussion. Belief in a god is entirely a religious endeavor.

You may not say that god and religion are different. That's like saying Birmingham and Alabama are different.

dude.. they ARE different....


Ask jodi foster what she really thinks about what john hinkly did 'for her'.


just because someone claims knowledge of god, doesn't mean they have a clue.

religion is the john hinkley to jodi fosters god.

this is a poor examlple because god whould surly have bigger boobs - but you get the idea.

this is why i say i have faith, not religion.
religion kills.. faith saves

Dude,

When you believe in something that isn't there, it's one of two things, either insanity or religion. OK, maybe only one thing.

God is a religious concept. He's not a concept of economics or carpentry or photography. You may enjoy a religion of one, but if you believe in god, you're religious.

Atheism is having no god, no religion. I appreciate your trying to elevate religion by claiming it's atheism, but that is like trying to raise a circle by saying it's a square.

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Bill G.

Comes forth now Jank, an admitted confederate of yours, (“It seems so simple to people like us BJBG. We understand how it started. We understand the nature of humans to want answers to why things happen” )[Jank], a novice to atheism, in travail. lamenting has apprenticed herself.

I hope in the end the cost to her is not disappointment.

She belabors the effect religion has on her. (“If they would only stop trying to integrate their beliefs into our government, education and laws“) [Jank]; she points out religion and it’s man-made inconsistencies; as reason the rest of us cannot believe in God.

At the same time Bill G. we never see the same disposition for politics, sports, social groups, charities etc. which also effect government, education and laws. You pipple seem to only harp on believers.

This is total heresy in the face of logic.

I hereby insist you set an example to her and others by saturating intentional confusion with your absence.

Rram,

What makes you think that I "follow" BJBG? Do you think he is the only atheist I know? Do you not think I have the ability to think for myself? I had these beliefs long before I knew BJBG on this forum.

As to what I said before, you are misunderstanding me. I don't claim to know (with out doubt) the beginning of the universe. I have heard many theories and I have a few that I prefer over others. However neither do you. The "idea" that god created it all is not one I entertain at all any more. Now if there is some real evidence brought forth then I will gladly entertain that idea again. Until then I choose to stick with what we know...not what some people want to believe.

What I was referring to is how there are still people today that believe god is punishing them with natural disasters. Still in this day and age. We now know how these thing happen and its not some invisible man in the sky who is angry with us.

As for me not understanding how anyone can use the bible to prove the existence of god or even the belief in him by using this flawed, inconsistent, contradictory book, is not the same thing as me saying they have no right to believe it. I just don't understand that way of thinking...that would be my right.

So far sports, social groups, etc, do not insist that we teach our children in public school to believe in their agenda, they do not make laws based on their favorite sports team. Not the same thing by a long shot. You seem too smart to confuse these things with religion and its agenda. I think you are being the illogical one here. When was the last time you went to the store to buy something and they told you that they could not sell you that item today because the Braves were playing and it would be wrong to sell you those items on their game day?

You say your not here to save souls, and I am not here to turn people from god. That is not my job nor my plan. However if there are those here that feel alone in this town of majority christian ideals and laws, I am here for them. So that they know they are not alone.

If there is anything you could share with me that would be beneficial to my life and understanding of it then please do speak up. I am open to hear any ideas or beliefs you may have. Now whether I buy into it or not will be another thing altogether.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Bill G.

Comes forth now Jank, an admitted confederate of yours, (“It seems so simple to people like us BJBG. We understand how it started. We understand the nature of humans to want answers to why things happen” )[Jank], a novice to atheism, in travail. lamenting has apprenticed herself.

I hope in the end the cost to her is not disappointment.

She belabors the effect religion has on her. (“If they would only stop trying to integrate their beliefs into our government, education and laws“) [Jank]; she points out religion and it’s man-made inconsistencies; as reason the rest of us cannot believe in God.

At the same time Bill G. we never see the same disposition for politics, sports, social groups, charities etc. which also effect government, education and laws. You pipple seem to only harp on believers.

This is total heresy in the face of logic.

I hereby insist you set an example to her and others by saturating intentional confusion with your absence.

Rram,

What makes you think that I "follow" BJBG? Do you think he is the only atheist I know? Do you not think I have the ability to think for myself? I had these beliefs long before I knew BJBG on this forum.

As to what I said before, you are misunderstanding me. I don't claim to know (with out doubt) the beginning of the universe. I have heard many theories and I have a few that I prefer over others. However neither do you. The "idea" that god created it all is not one I entertain at all any more. Now if there is some real evidence brought forth then I will gladly entertain that idea again. Until then I choose to stick with what we know...not what some people want to believe.

What I was referring to is how there are still people today that believe god is punishing them with natural disasters. Still in this day and age. We now know how these thing happen and its not some invisible man in the sky who is angry with us.

As for me not understanding how anyone can use the bible to prove the existence of god or even the belief in him by using this flawed, inconsistent, contradictory book, is not the same thing as me saying they have no right to believe it. I just don't understand that way of thinking...that would be my right.

So far sports, social groups, etc, do not insist that we teach our children in public school to believe in their agenda, they do not make laws based on their favorite sports team. Not the same thing by a long shot. You seem too smart to confuse these things with religion and its agenda. I think you are being the illogical one here. When was the last time you went to the store to buy something and they told you that they could not sell you that item today because the Braves were playing and it would be wrong to sell you those items on their game day?

You say your not here to save souls, and I am not here to turn people from god. That is not my job nor my plan. However if there are those here that feel alone in this town of majority christian ideals and laws, I am here for them. So that they know they are not alone.

If there is anything you could share with me that would be beneficial to my life and understanding of it then please do speak up. I am open to hear any ideas or beliefs you may have. Now whether I buy into it or not will be another thing altogether.

Jank,

There is no use trying to fool me. Your arguments are transparent.

I know a real atheist when I talk to one. Your atheist position along with every other one on this forum is agenda driven. Some personal conflict, perhaps alcohol, things in the past that are opposed to beliefs held by , as you would say “thumpers”. Yes some of them are participants in the things they condemn . The difference is in the way they handle them. You go straight to the source and assume a position against the concept of God. To make yourselves and your positions look credible you invoke that you are handy with science. You are not handy with science. You try to paint a picture the atheist and science are harnessed up like a team of mules on a quest to prove a non-existence of God. Believe me science would rather you stay from under foot.

On the other hand the “Thumpers” forgive themselves and move on. If they are gonna have a beer they are smart enough to buy enough on Satidy.

Yes Jank I can recognize a real atheist; you see I have a best friend that I spend a lot of time fishing with, cooking out with, talking to, eating out with and traveling with.

He describes himself as being born without a soul enjoys his licker reads the, bible makes no sense out of it and never laments the fact that I don’t drink alcohol or that I attend a religious assemblage.

Do I argue with him. No. I know he is sincere.

The atheist on this forum practice the religion of atheism. There is a big difference. My friend does not.

Do I have advice for you? Stop looking to the crack-pot atheist on this forum for guidance.

They are dangerous as hell to you and all mankind. Their agenda is a ******up society that has never been tested and need to be stopped. Nip it in the budd.

Rram,

Jank went over your head again.

Why can't you understand that she needs no one's guidance or permission to come to her own conclusion? Do you think she is incapable of independent thought? Could it be because she is a (gasp!) woman?

One needn't be a scientist to see the obvious farce that is religion. No one is out to disprove god, his non-existence is understood. It's up to the likes of you to prove him, and you've done an extraordinarily poor job. Jank has just decided to no longer pretend that you haven't.

I don't know if Jank has an agenda, but I sure do. The fundies would gladly make a theocracy out of this country. They would happily destroy education and the entire institution of critical thinking. They warp young minds in their formative years with fictions about Hell and how we all deserve to be there for the ridiculous notion of Original Sin. This horrible, evil, wicked Medieval mindset is quite worthy of resistance, and I'll happily take it on.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:


Dude,

When you believe in something that isn't there, it's one of two things, either insanity or religion. OK, maybe only one thing.

God is a religious concept. He's not a concept of economics or carpentry or photography. You may enjoy a religion of one, but if you believe in god, you're religious.

Atheism is having no god, no religion. I appreciate your trying to elevate religion by claiming it's atheism, but that is like trying to raise a circle by saying it's a square.

lol... i'm not trying to elevate anything, not really...

i was trying to say what b50m said a few posts ago -
religon is a cult, men following men. no matter how often they say his name, it doesn't mean god has anything to do with it.
Faith is a connection from one man to god. the church elders and pastors don't enter into it.

Athiesism, by nature isn't a religion, however, to some people it can become so.

Perhaps it comes down to me trying to reject the label of religion because i don't wish to ever be confused with people like bill gray.
/shrug.

when you put it that way, nagel, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:



Jank,

There is no use trying to fool me. Your arguments are transparent.

I know a real atheist when I talk to one. Your atheist position along with every other one on this forum is agenda driven. Some personal conflict, perhaps alcohol, things in the past that are opposed to beliefs held by , as you would say “thumpers”. Yes some of them are participants in the things they condemn . The difference is in the way they handle them. You go straight to the source and assume a position against the concept of God. To make yourselves and your positions look credible you invoke that you are handy with science. You are not handy with science. You try to paint a picture the atheist and science are harnessed up like a team of mules on a quest to prove a non-existence of God. Believe me science would rather you stay from under foot.

When have I denied or tried to fool you into thinking I am not atheist?

If I seriously thought I could convince believers of god to see that it is complete superstitious dung, believe you me I would. I think that for the most part this world would be a better place without it. However I can not. It is a decision they will have to make for themselves as I did.

I also never said I was "handy with science". Where do you get this stuff? I have said I have an interest in science. I love it actually. I read scientific news more regularly than world news. Does that bother you? Why would you not want me to be interested in science? Oh wait, you don't want me to think too much, that would be bad for me and the christian agenda.

quote:

On the other hand the “Thumpers” forgive themselves and move on. If they are gonna have a beer they are smart enough to buy enough on Satidy.

Forgive themselves for what? Whats wrong with having a beer? I for one have friends that stop by on Sunday's unexpectedly. I love to have friends over. I should not have to plan my life around yours or anyone elses belief in a make believe deity. How bout those folks that feel they have a reason to be ashamed of having a beer just not drink and leave the rest of us to decide when and if we want one. Problem solved. The "thumpers" (as you call them) can have some iced tea if they want and we mature adults can have a cold one by the pool on Sunday afternoon.

quote:

Yes Jank I can recognize a real atheist; you see I have a best friend that I spend a lot of time fishing with, cooking out with, talking to, eating out with and traveling with.

He describes himself as being born without a soul enjoys his licker reads the, bible makes no sense out of it and never laments the fact that I don’t drink alcohol or that I attend a religious assemblage.

Do I argue with him. No. I know he is sincere.

The atheist on this forum practice the religion of atheism. There is a big difference. My friend does not.

So you don't have a problem with all atheist just the ones that are vocal about it. Well isn't that nice of you. I will not hide my non-belief for your comfort Rram. Also you should know it is not a religion. Look up the definition of religion. Atheism does not fit. By definition the word atheist means no belief in gods. Period. Nothing else.

quote:

Do I have advice for you? Stop looking to the crack-pot atheist on this forum for guidance.

They are dangerous as hell to you and all mankind. Their agenda is a ******up society that has never been tested and need to be stopped. Nip it in the budd.

I really don't understand why you believe that I either had to have some "sin" I wanted to commit (alcohol) or led astray by some evil atheist, to be atheist all on my own. I took a very long time coming to the conclusion that there is no god. I was very much alone in this. I had the bible and my own intelligence that led me to where I am today. I researched and tried to find some kind of evidence of god and came up empty handed. I found more holes in christianity than there is in swiss cheese. I do feel better knowing I am not all alone in my conclusions anymore. I have said before and I will say again that finding other atheist here and elsewhere have helped me deal with a world that is hostile to my non-belief. Being Atheist in a christian town has not been easy. I am ashamed to say that there was a time that I pretended to be one of the sheep just to get a job. I knew that if the man doing the interview knew my true feeling I would not get the job. I needed it bad. I was a young widow with 2 small kids to feed and I lied when he ask me what church I attended. I stood every morning in the sales meeting and pretended to be in sincere prayer with the rest of the employees while he led us with his prayer for a good sales day. I finally found another job and promised myself to never ever live that kind of lie again. It meant lost sales and commissions I could have used to pay the bills with, but I could not be something I was not and be the example I wanted my children to follow.

So think what you will about me and my decisions, however I have not been a follower of men or god in many many years.

I will not stop speaking my mind on this forum or out here in the world. I will not stop trying to make this world a better place for my children and grandchildren. Religion is a violent, bigoted, superstition and has proven itself to be so all through history. I say its time for a change.

quote:

I found more holes in christianity than there is in swiss cheese.

Jank

Your quote here: “I found more holes in christianity than there is in swiss cheese.”

Would you list a dozen or so? Please.

Jank,
“So you don't have a problem with all atheist just the ones that are vocal about it. Well isn't that nice of you. I will not hide my non-belief for your comfort Rram. Also you should know it is not a religion. Look up the definition of religion. Atheism does not fit. By definition the word atheist means no belief in gods. Period. Nothing else.” [Jank]

No Jank just those that practice it as a religion and try to insist everyone else join in the ceremony.

Waiting on the Swiss cheese. Be careful what you list.

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:

quote:

I found more holes in christianity than there is in swiss cheese.

Jank

Your quote here: “I found more holes in christianity than there is in swiss cheese.”

Would you list a dozen or so? Please.

Jank I'm waiting.

I'ts ok to enlist Bill G. to help with a list.

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:

quote:

I found more holes in christianity than there is in swiss cheese.

Jank

Your quote here: “I found more holes in christianity than there is in swiss cheese.”

Would you list a dozen or so? Please.

Jank I'm waiting.

I'ts ok to enlist Bill G. to help with a list.

You're just going to have to keep waiting. I am leaving for vacation early tomorrow morning and I really don't want to get into this with you and then leave for a week.

Actually I may never give you what you want from me. I really have no desire to jump through these hoops for you. It will not matter what I say you will disagree or make a non-sense remark about it. Seems like a huge waste of time to me.

If you really want to know due to sincere interest I will try when I return to accommodate.