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quote:   Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

In actuality, we all have the same gods, Bill. None.  You just don't know it yet, but whatever turns you on. Have at it!


Hi Robust,

 

Not a problem for me.  You just keep repeating that to yourself -- as you slide faster and faster down that slippery slope.   And, one day, my Friend -- you are in for a really BIG surprise.  But, the beauty of God is -- he allows YOU to make that choice.  He will not force you.  He will not stop you from making the wrong choice -- as your current lifestyle testifies.  Yet, He is always there, waiting with open arms -- if you do decide to follow Him (take a peak at Revelation 3:20).

 

However, once you leave this life -- at that last breath -- your ticket gets punched and there will be no second chances.  At that point your eternity is set in concrete.  And, it would appear that, given your current mindset -- that concrete is going to be mighty warm -- for a long, long time.  Well, actually, for eternity.

 

But, as I said -- not a problem for me.  But, a very hot problem for you -- even though you will keep denying it UNTIL it is too late (sneak a peak at Revelation 20:11-15).

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Extra-260:
Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:

Really, you mean atheists aren't smart enough to "figure it out by themselves?" At least as far as Santa Claus I managed to put two and two together at a reasonably early age. Even at the nadir of my existence, I could never find enough "evidence"' that God did not exist.

 

I believe in a day of judgment and on that day many charlatans will have to answer for those they have turned away from God--think Jim Bakker. I also believe there will be many who will at least be asked why they were not prepared to defend their beliefs. Many of those posting on the Brooks Will Pray page fall into that category.

 
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When I was roughly 6 years old it occured to me we didn't have a chimney.

 


That's why Santa has a 'magic key'!

 

Re: Santa Claus: Belief in Santa Clause goes through several phases. belief, suspicion, disappointment and belief again (when you become a parent, grandparent, etc).

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

ALL one has to do to BELIEVE in Santa Claus is to look into a young child's eyes on Christmas morning....

__________

Ever looked in the eyes of a child whose family is too poor to have Santa Claus?  It's easy to believe when you shut out reality.

Yes I have, as both a teacher and law enforcement officer. Have you? Did you DO something about it, or did you simply shake your head and go back to your warm, cozy little world?

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

In actuality, we all have the same gods, Bill. None. You just don't know it yet, but whatever turns you on. Have at it!

Disavowment of God is a cop out for people without a conscience. Without God in their lives they are 'free' to do whatever they want without worrying about remorse, guilt, etc. Don't look shocked when you're proven wrong about 2 seconds after your last breath.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

In actuality, we all have the same gods, Bill. None. You just don't know it yet, but whatever turns you on. Have at it!

Disavowment of God is a cop out for people without a conscience. Without God in their lives they are 'free' to do whatever they want without worrying about remorse, guilt, etc. Don't look shocked when you're proven wrong about 2 seconds after your last breath.

----------------------------------

 

No dogsoldier what you just said is a cop out. I am an atheist and yet I know that if I hurt someone I will feel remorse and guilt. I try everyday to be kind and caring to all I come in contact with. I am not free to run around hurting people and doing things that would cause others to suffer. I don't need the belief in a God to keep me from hurting anyone or being a good person. Of course I am not perfect, so I have made mistakes and done things that I regret. When I do I try and not make that same mistake again and go to the person I have hurt and ask them to forgive me. If I have caused some kind of harm I try and do something to correct it. It hurts me to see others hurt.  Imagine.....no god and yet people can be good.

 

Many believers that I know do good so that they can get into heaven or because they fear the wrath of their god...that tells me that they are the ones with no conscience. They only do right because of self preservation. Or so they think anyway....

Disavowment of God is a cop out for people without a conscience. Without God in their lives they are 'free' to do whatever they want without worrying about remorse, guilt, etc. Don't look shocked when you're proven wrong about 2 seconds after your last breath.

 

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Statements like yours really make me go hmmmmmmmmmmmm. You're saying that only mean/evil people don't believe in a god, yet you can't explain all the horrible things christians do. Why in the world do you think people need a belief in a god to be a good person? I'd say it's the believers that don't have a conscience and feel free to do whatever they want without remorse, guilt, etc. because they think they can "fix" it by praying their way back into a god's good graces and be "forgiven". List some of the things you think non-believers do that christians don't do every day. It's so simple really that I don't understand how it "escapes" your thoughts. People do good because they are good people, people do bad because they're bad people. It makes no difference if they believe in a god or not. In business I've never been cheated by an atheist, but boy howdy those christians will try to put anything over on you if you aren't on your toes. Especially the preachers!!

Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:

I believe in a day of judgment and on that day many charlatans will have to answer for those they have turned away from God
__________________________________

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Robust,

 And, one day, my Friend -- you are in for a really BIG surprise. 

Bill

_______________________________

I have news for both of you........many "Christians"  will have a lot to answer for & in for a really BIG surprise too.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Disavowment of God is a cop out for people without a conscience. Without God in their lives they are 'free' to do whatever they want without worrying about remorse, guilt, etc. Don't look shocked when you're proven wrong about 2 seconds after your last breath.

 

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Statements like yours really make me go hmmmmmmmmmmmm. You're saying that only mean/evil people don't believe in a god, yet you can't explain all the horrible things christians do. Why in the world do you think people need a belief in a god to be a good person? I'd say it's the believers that don't have a conscience and feel free to do whatever they want without remorse, guilt, etc. because they think they can "fix" it by praying their way back into a god's good graces and be "forgiven". List some of the things you think non-believers do that christians don't do every day. It's so simple really that I don't understand how it "escapes" your thoughts. People do good because they are good people, people do bad because they're bad people. It makes no difference if they believe in a god or not. In business I've never been cheated by an atheist, but boy howdy those christians will try to put anything over on you if you aren't on your toes. Especially the preachers!!

The very nature of man is evil. History is FULL of accounts of 'Christians' doing all sorts of evil things to people: Saul persecuting Christians, the Grand Inquisition,the Catholic Church 'looking the other way' during the Holocost, etc. Saul was made to see the error of his ways through Divine intervention. The first example we have of man having a concsience is in Genesis. After Adam and Eve sinned THEY KNEW they had done wrong and were afraid.  WHY were they afraid?????

The very nature of man is evil. History is FULL of accounts of 'Christians' doing all sorts of evil things to people: Saul persecuting Christians, the Grand Inquisition,the Catholic Church 'looking the other way' during the Holocost, etc. Saul was made to see the error of his ways through Divine intervention. The first example we have of man having a concsience is in Genesis. After Adam and Eve sinned THEY KNEW they had done wrong and were afraid.  WHY were they afraid?????

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So you agree with me that a non-belief doesn't mean a person is evil and lives a sinful life. Then your post that you made claiming they have no conscience was very odd. Oh and maybe your nature is evil, mine sure isn't. Yes, christians have certainly been nasty people at times, and too many of them still are. I can't speak to adam and eve's "fear" since I don't believe they ever existed. Weird fairytale that one(well they all are). Let's put an innocent child in a room with something really tempting, tell them they can't touch it, (but for the sake of our story of course they do), and because we LOVE them so much we terrorize them for doing it. Yeah god, you go!! You rock!!! Smite those people for daring to disobey you, but be sure to tell them it hurts you more than it hurts them. Uh huh!!

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Robust,

Not a problem for me.  You just keep repeating that to yourself -- as you slide faster and faster down that slippery slope.   And, one day, my Friend -- you are in for a really BIG surprise.  But, the beauty of God is -- he allows YOU to make that choice.  He will not force you.  He will not stop you from making the wrong choice -- as your current lifestyle testifies.  Yet, He is always there, waiting with open arms -- if you do decide to follow Him (take a peak at Revelation 3:20).

 

However, once you leave this life -- at that last breath -- your ticket gets punched and there will be no second chances.  At that point your eternity is set in concrete.  And, it would appear that, given your current mindset -- that concrete is going to be mighty warm -- for a long, long time.  Well, actually, for eternity.

 

But, as I said -- not a problem for me.  But, a very hot problem for you -- even though you will keep denying it UNTIL it is too late (sneak a peak at Revelation 20:11-15).

Bill

__________________________

Real Christian of you, Bill. With that kind of response, no wonder people are running to you with questions about God & being saved. Such a fine example of a Christian!!

You just keep repeating to yourself -- that you're a Christian-----as you slide faster & faster down that slippery slope.

It's going to be much harder on those that wear the hat, as you & some others do, than those that never knew Him at all.

 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

The very nature of man is evil. History is FULL of accounts of 'Christians' doing all sorts of evil things to people: Saul persecuting Christians, the Grand Inquisition,the Catholic Church 'looking the other way' during the Holocost, etc. Saul was made to see the error of his ways through Divine intervention. The first example we have of man having a concsience is in Genesis. After Adam and Eve sinned THEY KNEW they had done wrong and were afraid.  WHY were they afraid?????

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So you agree with me that a non-belief doesn't mean a person is evil and lives a sinful life. Then your post that you made claiming they have no conscience was very odd. Oh and maybe your nature is evil, mine sure isn't. Yes, christians have certainly been nasty people at times, and too many of them still are. I can't speak to adam and eve's "fear" since I don't believe they ever existed. Weird fairytale that one(well they all are). Let's put an innocent child in a room with something really tempting, tell them they can't touch it, (but for the sake of our story of course they do), and because we LOVE them so much we terrorize them for doing it. Yeah god, you go!! You rock!!! Smite those people for daring to disobey you, but be sure to tell them it hurts you more than it hurts them. Uh huh!!


My apologies for the confusion. I haven't had my 2nd pot of coffee....yet.

 

History has PROVEN that it is FAR EASIER for man to be evil than it is to be good. For those of us to CONSCIOUSLY CHOOSE to 'be good, it' is a daily struggle. I KNOW it is for me.  It is FAR TOO EASY to wish/want ****ation, hatred and loathing for some of the people I have dealt with over the years than it is to forgive them and 'move on'.  If the very nature of man ISN'T evil, please explain why it isn't.

History has PROVEN that it is FAR EASIER for man to be evil than it is to be good. For those of us to CONSCIOUSLY CHOOSE to 'be good, it' is a daily struggle. I KNOW it is for me.  It is FAR TOO EASY to wish/want ****ation, hatred and loathing for some of the people I have dealt with over the years than it is to forgive them and 'move on'.  If the very nature of man ISN'T evil, please explain why it isn't

 

Actually history hasn't proven that at all.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

What Makes Us Moral

 

http://www.time.com/time/speci...5076_1686619,00.html

 

It's a long read but try to get through it.


The author 'appears' to believe some of what I was implying re: the 'nature' of man being evil:

Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of us never run off the moral rails in remotely as awful a way as serial killers do, but we do come untracked in smaller ways. We face our biggest challenges not when we're called on to behave ourselves within our family, community or workplace but when we have to apply the same moral care to people outside our tribe.

 

We surely have a lot of killing and savagery ahead of us before we fully civilize ourselves. The hope—a realistic one, perhaps—is that the struggles still to come are fewer than those left behind.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1685055_1685076_1686619,00.html #ixzz1dnAsace1

 

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

What Makes Us Moral

 

http://www.time.com/time/speci...5076_1686619,00.html

 

It's a long read but try to get through it.


The author 'appears' to believe some of what I was implying re: the 'nature' of man being evil:

Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of us never run off the moral rails in remotely as awful a way as serial killers do, but we do come untracked in smaller ways. We face our biggest challenges not when we're called on to behave ourselves within our family, community or workplace but when we have to apply the same moral care to people outside our tribe.

 

We surely have a lot of killing and savagery ahead of us before we fully civilize ourselves. The hope—a realistic one, perhaps—is that the struggles still to come are fewer than those left behind.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1685055_1685076_1686619,00.html #ixzz1dnAsace1

 


Apparently you didn't read it. Oh well.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

What Makes Us Moral

 

http://www.time.com/time/speci...5076_1686619,00.html

 

It's a long read but try to get through it.


The author 'appears' to believe some of what I was implying re: the 'nature' of man being evil:

Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of us never run off the moral rails in remotely as awful a way as serial killers do, but we do come untracked in smaller ways. We face our biggest challenges not when we're called on to behave ourselves within our family, community or workplace but when we have to apply the same moral care to people outside our tribe.

 

We surely have a lot of killing and savagery ahead of us before we fully civilize ourselves. The hope—a realistic one, perhaps—is that the struggles still to come are fewer than those left behind.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1685055_1685076_1686619,00.html #ixzz1dnAsace1

 


Apparently you didn't read it. Oh well.


What makes you say that? Could it be because I don't agree with you? I don't agree with EVERYTHING in the article, but PARTS of the article SEEM to SUPPORT my view that man is inherently evil.

How would you "agree with me"? I had nothing to do with the article, and NO, it does not say or attempt to say people are inherently "evil". It says what I have known for a long long time. People don't need a mythical god making them do the right thing. If they think they do they are basically saying they aren't such good people after all, and I guess that's why christians think non-believers are evil and have no conscience. They're basing it on what they're like. Sorry, but if all that stands between someone and evil is some myth I don't see how that person can claim to be "good". Being "good" under threat and out of fear is not so good imo.  And again, doing bad because a person thinks they can "pray it away" isn't good either.

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