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Originally Posted by interventor1212:

At least, it doesn't call for suspension of the Constitution, as did Governor Perdue.  Nor, did the arrest of Jose Pedilla come under the Patriot Act, as Extra claimed. 

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 Extra’s post:

 “In those famous words: "YOU LIE"  I never mentioned Padilla in reference to the patriot act. I pointed out that the government had already used unlimited detention under Bush. As you pointed out, Bush claimed this privilege as Commander in chief. When the Patriot Act was written,,  ( As influenced by the Bush admin), this provision was written in.

 

 I was dead on, you are completely wrong. The patriot act allows for the incarceration of american civilians without access to the courts. it's not even an argument. All you are is smoke and mirrors and misdirection.”

 

My rejoinder:

 

In the famous word –NO!  No lies written!  True, you did not mention Pedilla.  However, as he was one of the few Americans detained and the only one detained after passage of the Patriot Act.  The other being John Lindh (Taliban Johnny) who was arrested on the battlefield in Afghanistan, tried and sentenced after a plea bargain.  Lindh’s case happened before the patriot Act even passed. 

 

As I showed in a previous post, a superior court upheld the Pedilla case and didn’t even mention the Patriot Act in their decision – but rather powers emanating from the Constitution for the President as CiC. 

 

Please cite this infamous provision within the Patriot Act, as I could not find. I even cited the act and gave the link to it.   And, under the superior court decision considering Pedilla, the court agreed the Great Writ (Writ of Habeas Corpus) was followed. 

 

Extra, I knew you were knee deep in  conspiracy theory. But, not you appear to be up to your eyeballs, even denying the evidence shown and copies of the Patriot Act, itself. 

 

That said, its nice to see that you weren’t the one arrested for attempting to attack the Pentagon and Capitol with RC planes.  Good luck with that at the Pentagon, even with a 5-pound plastic charge diving in at 100 MPH.  Between blast resistant windows and program called MERLIN, or its successor, the plane will either dive into the ground, or make a nasty mess on the wall.

 

Extra, want to bet some doofus in Congress will try to limit RC planes in the future?  Prepare for licenses and limit on the size of the craft. Despite your protestations, I truly am concerned about a large unwieldy government running rough shod over citizens and their rights.   

Roland,

 

Yes, the post was about dufus Perdue.  The regressives always blame the conservatives with just this crime against the forum.

 

Well, Ditzy and Propie (regressives) and Extra (somewhere in the stratosphere), why haven'y you commented on the actual post?

 

Perdue, before she is impeached, should do the honorable thing and resign.  If she still wished to pursue a leftwing agenda, I would suggest she proceed to the family business and organize their chicken pluckers into a union.  Truly, wouldn't that be a better use of her time, rather than denigrating the very law she swore to support in her oath of office.

 

"Chicken pluckers unite! If you're bird must be plucked, let it be a union plucker!" should be her new theme.   

As shown, the Patriot Act, had nothing to do with it. Gonzales didn't state that!  His defense didn't state that!  The superior court ruling didn't state that!  And, the Patriot Act doesn't state that! 

 

Only, an indignant barracks lawyer states that -- you!  Some argument --"because I say so!"  Last heard that in third grade.

 

As to Perdue's statement -- if no one cares, why has she changed her story three times.  Between the governor and the ex-chief of OMB, it sounds like the Dems are trying to bypass the law as fear of the outcome of the 2012 elections comes nigh -- 2010 in spades!   

Originally Posted by interventor1212:

As shown, the Patriot Act, had nothing to do with it. Gonzales didn't state that!  His defense didn't state that!  The superior court ruling didn't state that!  And, the Patriot Act doesn't state that! 

 

Only, an indignant barracks lawyer states that -- you!  Some argument --"because I say so!"  Last heard that in third grade.

 

As to Perdue's statement -- if no one cares, why has she changed her story three times.  Between the governor and the ex-chief of OMB, it sounds like the Dems are trying to bypass the law as fear of the outcome of the 2012 elections comes nigh -- 2010 in spades!   

 

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 The gig is up. In the other thread you aut****d, you advocated and supported the killing of American citizens, based on suspision, without trial, without due process, without habeas corpus, without access to the courts.

 

 Congradulations, you have now bournout and proven everything I said about you in this thread.

 

 And yes, the Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic piece of legislation to be passed in a long time.

 

Extra,

 

The left, some libertarians and you can't tell the difference between war and law enforcement.  I will address that point in the other post. 

 

Far from burning out, I'm advocating for a strategy necessary for the survival of the West.  The left can't understand complicated things, some libertarians strive to remain such purists that they would choose suicide over survival, and you (?).

 

For this post, suffice it that I've shown the Patriot Act does not include the provisions you swore it did. Nor, was it instrumental in denying Habeas Corpus to citizens suspected of terrorism. 

Originally Posted by Mr.Dittohead:

No one cares if some governor makes an offhand comment about the failings of Congress. 

Really? Then why don't you start another thread yourself to discuss the Patriot Act rather than trying to deflect the subject of a Democrat Governor that apparently thinks the Constitutional process is getting in the way of her idea of getting things done?

Originally Posted by Roland Pfalz:
Originally Posted by marksw59:

Wasn't this thread about the sitting Democrat Governor of North Caroline opining that we should just "do away with elections"?

 

 

 

It was ignored / deflected  by the "yeah, but"  liberals here.


The suspension of a Congressional election would have zero impact on your life.

 

The Patriot Act has had a measurable impact on your life, yet you ignore and acquiesce your Constitutionally derived rights merely because a Repube suggested that it would make you a great American.  You are stoopid. 

Originally Posted by Mr.Dittohead:
Originally Posted by Roland Pfalz:
Originally Posted by marksw59:

Wasn't this thread about the sitting Democrat Governor of North Caroline opining that we should just "do away with elections"?

 

 

 

It was ignored / deflected  by the "yeah, but"  liberals here.


The suspension of a Congressional election would have zero impact on your life.

 

The Patriot Act has had a measurable impact on your life, yet you ignore and acquiesce your Constitutionally derived rights merely because a Repube suggested that it would make you a great American.  You are stoopid. 

Obviously, with the oncoming flood that will sweep Democrats from office, the elections will effect me, for the better.

 

As, I'm not involved with al Qaeda, the Patriot act will not affect me.

Originally Posted by interventor1212:
Originally Posted by Mr.Dittohead:

If you were a patriotic American, you wouldnt need the illegal aspects of the Patriot Act explained to you. 

 

Ditzy,

 

I've shown on a number of posts the act doesn't do much of what you say it does.

Ohhhh, really?

http://www.time.com/time/natio...8599,2079666,00.html

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C..._the_USA_PATRIOT_Act

 

"Wrongful accusations under the Act

In May 2004, Professor Steve Kurtz of the University at Buffalo reported his wife's death of heart failure. The associate art professor, who works in the biotechnology sector, was using benign bacterial cultures and biological equipment in his work. Police arriving at the scene found the equipment (which had been displayed in museums and galleries throughout Europe and North America) suspicious and notified the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The next day the FBI, Joint Terrorism Task Force, Department of Homeland Security and numerous other law enforcement agencies arrived in HAZMAT gear and cordoned off the block surrounding Kurtz's house, impounding computers, manuscripts, books, and equipment, and detaining Kurtz without charge for 22 hours; the Erie County Health Department condemned the house as a possible "health risk" while the cultures were analyzed. Although it was determined that nothing in the Kurtz's home posed any health or safety risk, the Justice Department sought charges under Section 175 of the US Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act—a law which was expanded by the USA PATRIOT Act. A grand jury rejected those charges, but Kurtz is still charged with federal criminal mail and wire fraud, and faced 20 years in jail before the charges were dropped. Supporters worldwide argue that this is a politically motivated prosecution, akin to those seen during the era of McCarthyism, and legal observers note that it is a precedent-setting case with far-reaching implications involving the criminalization of free speech and expression for artists, scientists, researchers, and others.[14][15]

FBI agents used a USA PATRIOT Act "sneak and peek" search to secretly examine the home of Brandon Mayfield, who was wrongfully jailed for two weeks on suspicion of involvement in the Madrid train bombings. Agents seized three hard drives and ten DNA samples preserved on cotton swabs, and took 335 photos of personal items. Mayfield has filed a lawsuit against the U.S. government, contending that his rights were violated by his arrest and by the investigation against him. He also contends the USA PATRIOT Act is unconstitutional.[16][17][18]"

Fascism at it's finest.

[edit] 2007 US Justice Department audit finds FBI abuse of PATRIOT act powers

On March 9, 2007, a Justice Department audit found that the FBI had "improperly and, in some cases, illegally used the USA PATRIOT Act to secretly obtain personal information" about United States citizens.[1]

On June 15, 2007, following an internal audit finding that FBI agents abused the USA PATRIOT Act power more than 1000 times, U.S. District Judge John D. Bates ordered the agency to begin turning over thousands of pages of documents related to the agency's national security letters program.[2]

 

Originally Posted by Extra-260:
Originally Posted by interventor1212:
Originally Posted by Mr.Dittohead:

If you were a patriotic American, you wouldnt need the illegal aspects of the Patriot Act explained to you. 

 

Ditzy,

 

I've shown on a number of posts the act doesn't do much of what you say it does.

Ohhhh, really?

http://www.time.com/time/natio...8599,2079666,00.html

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C..._the_USA_PATRIOT_Act

 

"Wrongful accusations under the Act

In May 2004, Professor Steve Kurtz of the University at Buffalo reported his wife's death of heart failure. The associate art professor, who works in the biotechnology sector, was using benign bacterial cultures and biological equipment in his work. Police arriving at the scene found the equipment (which had been displayed in museums and galleries throughout Europe and North America) suspicious and notified the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The next day the FBI, Joint Terrorism Task Force, Department of Homeland Security and numerous other law enforcement agencies arrived in HAZMAT gear and cordoned off the block surrounding Kurtz's house, impounding computers, manuscripts, books, and equipment, and detaining Kurtz without charge for 22 hours; the Erie County Health Department condemned the house as a possible "health risk" while the cultures were analyzed. Although it was determined that nothing in the Kurtz's home posed any health or safety risk, the Justice Department sought charges under Section 175 of the US Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act—a law which was expanded by the USA PATRIOT Act. A grand jury rejected those charges, but Kurtz is still charged with federal criminal mail and wire fraud, and faced 20 years in jail before the charges were dropped. Supporters worldwide argue that this is a politically motivated prosecution, akin to those seen during the era of McCarthyism, and legal observers note that it is a precedent-setting case with far-reaching implications involving the criminalization of free speech and expression for artists, scientists, researchers, and others.[14][15]

FBI agents used a USA PATRIOT Act "sneak and peek" search to secretly examine the home of Brandon Mayfield, who was wrongfully jailed for two weeks on suspicion of involvement in the Madrid train bombings. Agents seized three hard drives and ten DNA samples preserved on cotton swabs, and took 335 photos of personal items. Mayfield has filed a lawsuit against the U.S. government, contending that his rights were violated by his arrest and by the investigation against him. He also contends the USA PATRIOT Act is unconstitutional.[16][17][18]"

The magic word is contends.

Originally Posted by Extra-260:

Fascism at it's finest.

[edit] 2007 US Justice Department audit finds FBI abuse of PATRIOT act powers

On March 9, 2007, a Justice Department audit found that the FBI had "improperly and, in some cases, illegally used the USA PATRIOT Act to secretly obtain personal information" about United States citizens.[1]

On June 15, 2007, following an internal audit finding that FBI agents abused the USA PATRIOT Act power more than 1000 times, U.S. District Judge John D. Bates ordered the agency to begin turning over thousands of pages of documents related to the agency's national security letters program.[2]

 

Government overstepped it authority, that's news!  Haven't you been reading my posts.

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