Skip to main content

I find it mildly amusing that a Democrat governor of North Carolina could call for suspension of the US Constitution without an out pour of outrage.  If a Republican had called for such action, during the Bush era, they would demand the North Carolina assembly begin immediate impeachment proceeding for violating the oath of office, as well as treason.  The Constitution may never be suspended. 

 

Simultaneously, they would be demanding helicopters filled with federal marshals backed by a couple of MP companies be enroute to arrest the governor!  But, since its just a Democrat...! 

 

"I think we ought to suspend, perhaps, elections for Congress for two years and just tell them we won't hold it against them, whatever decisions they make, to just let them help this country recover," Gov. Bev Perdue, a Democrat, said, according to a report by the Raleigh News & Observer. "You want people who don't worry about the next election.' "

 

Oath of Office of NC governor:
The Governor, before entering upon the duties of his office, shall, before any Justice of the Supreme Court, take an oath or affirmation that he will support the Constitution and laws of the United States and of the State of North Carolina, and that he will faithfully perform the duties pertaining to the office of governor.

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Ditzy,

 

I love your blind response. I posted this a mildly humorous reference to the regressives hysteria over every action of Bush or Cheney.  They predicted the end of the Republic, death camps and mass denial of rights.  Their response was to call for military coups to topple Bush, impeachment and worse.  Assassination was a staple.  Thanks for proving the comic relief I sought!. Knee jerked on que! 

Originally Posted by interventor1212:

Ditzy,

 

I love your blind response. I posted this a mildly humorous reference to the regressives hysteria over every action of Bush or Cheney.  They predicted the end of the Republic, death camps and mass denial of rights.  Their response was to call for military coups to topple Bush, impeachment and worse.  Assassination was a staple.  Thanks for proving the comic relief I sought!. Knee jerked on que! 

 



BushIIe set the precedent that the Constitution can be overlooked in the national interest.  YOu are a shining example of the traitorous type of Patriot the Patriot Act represents.  Why do you hate America?

Originally Posted by Mr.Dittohead:
Originally Posted by interventor1212:

Ditzy,

 

I love your blind response. I posted this a mildly humorous reference to the regressives hysteria over every action of Bush or Cheney.  They predicted the end of the Republic, death camps and mass denial of rights.  Their response was to call for military coups to topple Bush, impeachment and worse.  Assassination was a staple.  Thanks for proving the comic relief I sought!. Knee jerked on que! 

 



BushIIe set the precedent that the Constitution can be overlooked in the national interest.  YOu are a shining example of the traitorous type of Patriot the Patriot Act represents.  Why do you hate America?

 

 Your dead on Ditto,

 Interventor supports the suspension of Habeas Corpus, he supports the arrest and internment of U.S. citizens without trial or access to the courts, he supports spying on American citizens without warrants, he supports using the military as a police force on the streets in violation of Posse Commitatus, and he supports violating numerous other federal and state laws that have been established upon good jurisprudence that are the backbone of preserving the individual rights of citizens. He is on record supporting torture of U.S. citizens suspected of terrorism under the patriot act.

 

 So yes, Interventor is as much a traitor to his country as he believes this governor to be.

 

In October, the duck avatar flies south.  You're going to miss the kind and gentle bird.

 

 Yep, I will miss you. It will make it a little more difficult to keep up with the CIA line of the day.

 

 On another note, who are they going to send it to replace you? There will be someone. I hope he ain't stupid enough to come in here under the Guy Fawkes mystick.

Extra,

 

Not just hyperbole, but character assassination bordering upon libel!

 

"Interventor supports the suspension of Habeas Corpus, he supports the arrest and internment of U.S. citizens without trial or access to the courts, he supports spying on American citizens without warrants, he supports using the military as a police force on the streets in violation of Posse Commitatus, and he supports violating numerous other federal and state laws that have been established upon good jurisprudence that are the backbone of preserving the individual rights of citizens. He is on record supporting torture of U.S. citizens suspected of terrorism under the patriot act."

 

I have never supported suspension of Habeas Corpus, which under the Constitution, may be suspended upon special circumstances. Which, do not even include civil war, as the supreme court informed Lincoln.

 

Nor, have I supported arrest and internment of US citizens without trial or access to courts, unless caught upon the battlefield assisting an enemy.  That is legal.  And, they must eventually be given access to either military or civilian courts, depending upon a declaration of war and where they were found.

 

Yes, I do support spying upon US citizens not in the US, when there is cause.  That is allowed. Also, spying upon them without informing them of a warrant -- just as we have done upon the mafia for decades.  Why should we give terrorists more rights than a mafia don!  Mind you, per the Constitution, a warrant is needed if their property is entered or bugged.  Not, just observing them.

 

Definitely do not believe in using the military in violation of Posse Comitatus. Military may be used for disaster relief, and to secure the borders against illegal entry.

 

Same for the other laws.

 

As to torture, you're definitely overstepping. Like Colonel Trinquier, I believe torture has no place in a free society.  However, the third degree, as used by the police, definitely.  As to water boarding , yes!  However, as shown,  waterboarding is a psychological technique and does not physically harm those so treated. US military special ops and pilots undergo waterboarding as part of their training. That includes President Bush.   

 

Last edited by interventor1212

Extra,

 

"In October, the duck avatar flies south.  You're going to miss the kind and gentle bird.

 

 Yep, I will miss you. It will make it a little more difficult to keep up with the CIA line of the day.

 

 On another note, who are they going to send it to replace you? There will be someone. I hope he ain't stupid enough to come in here under the Guy Fawkes mystick."

 

I am going nowhere, only my little avatar -- Groucho Marx's duck.  I'll stay the same.  Moi, CIA!  You either have a very scary sense of paranoia, or an extremely high sense of your selfworth -- bordering on Obama's.  Paranoia, or magalomania -- what a choice.

 

What do you have against the man who actually had a plan on how to deal with Parliament!

 

Do you still believe those railway cars coming thru Sheffield, designed to carry cars, are actually carrying people to the non-existent FEMA camps!

 

Ditzy,

 

You can take comfort in the fact that someone out there is crazier than you!  And, he's flying drones!   

Last edited by interventor1212
Originally Posted by Mr.Dittohead:

You must have been asleep when the Patriot Act was passed.  No outrage, just compliance.  The scary thing is the Patriot Act was written before 9/11, not in the fog of retribution. 

 

You should pay attention to fact instead of over-dramatization. Fact will always win out.

I believe this is Obama.

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/P...sion-without-reforms

 

http://biggovernment.com/sahil...and-the-left-silent/

Originally Posted by Extra-260:
Originally Posted by Mr.Dittohead:
Originally Posted by interventor1212:

Ditzy,

 

I love your blind response. I posted this a mildly humorous reference to the regressives hysteria over every action of Bush or Cheney.  They predicted the end of the Republic, death camps and mass denial of rights.  Their response was to call for military coups to topple Bush, impeachment and worse.  Assassination was a staple.  Thanks for proving the comic relief I sought!. Knee jerked on que! 

 



BushIIe set the precedent that the Constitution can be overlooked in the national interest.  YOu are a shining example of the traitorous type of Patriot the Patriot Act represents.  Why do you hate America?

 

 Your dead on Ditto,

 Interventor supports the suspension of Habeas Corpus, he supports the arrest and internment of U.S. citizens without trial or access to the courts, he supports spying on American citizens without warrants, he supports using the military as a police force on the streets in violation of Posse Commitatus, and he supports violating numerous other federal and state laws that have been established upon good jurisprudence that are the backbone of preserving the individual rights of citizens. He is on record supporting torture of U.S. citizens suspected of terrorism under the patriot act.

 

 So yes, Interventor is as much a traitor to his country as he believes this governor to be.

 

 I'm quite sure you can provide actual FACT and references to the Interventor being a "traitor" rather than this "wince, blather, and moan" rant?

 

Didn't think so.

Originally Posted by Roland Pfalz:
Originally Posted by Extra-260:
Originally Posted by Mr.Dittohead:
Originally Posted by interventor1212:

Ditzy,

 

I love your blind response. I posted this a mildly humorous reference to the regressives hysteria over every action of Bush or Cheney.  They predicted the end of the Republic, death camps and mass denial of rights.  Their response was to call for military coups to topple Bush, impeachment and worse.  Assassination was a staple.  Thanks for proving the comic relief I sought!. Knee jerked on que! 

 



BushIIe set the precedent that the Constitution can be overlooked in the national interest.  YOu are a shining example of the traitorous type of Patriot the Patriot Act represents.  Why do you hate America?

 

 Your dead on Ditto,

 Interventor supports the suspension of Habeas Corpus, he supports the arrest and internment of U.S. citizens without trial or access to the courts, he supports spying on American citizens without warrants, he supports using the military as a police force on the streets in violation of Posse Commitatus, and he supports violating numerous other federal and state laws that have been established upon good jurisprudence that are the backbone of preserving the individual rights of citizens. He is on record supporting torture of U.S. citizens suspected of terrorism under the patriot act.

 

 So yes, Interventor is as much a traitor to his country as he believes this governor to be.

 

 I'm quite sure you can provide actual FACT and references to the Interventor being a "traitor" rather than this "wince, blather, and moan" rant?

 

Didn't think so.

 

 Roland/Interventor,

 The things I mentioned are authorized my the Patriot act which BOTH of you support. You should read up before you knee jerk believe Bush.

 

 The Spreme Court has Ruled the Patriot act constitutional, and it authorizes the unlimited incarceration of American citizens without Habeas Corpus.

 man what Idiots the republicans have become.

 

Originally Posted by interventor1212:

Extra,

 

Not just hyperbole, but character assassination bordering upon libel!

 

"Interventor supports the suspension of Habeas Corpus, he supports the arrest and internment of U.S. citizens without trial or access to the courts, he supports spying on American citizens without warrants, he supports using the military as a police force on the streets in violation of Posse Commitatus, and he supports violating numerous other federal and state laws that have been established upon good jurisprudence that are the backbone of preserving the individual rights of citizens. He is on record supporting torture of U.S. citizens suspected of terrorism under the patriot act."

 

I have never supported suspension of Habeas Corpus, which under the Constitution, may be suspended upon special circumstances. Which, do not even include civil war, as the supreme court informed Lincoln.

 

Nor, have I supported arrest and internment of US citizens without trial or access to courts, unless caught upon the battlefield assisting an enemy.  That is legal.  And, they must eventually be given access to either military or civilian courts, depending upon a declaration of war and where they were found.

 

Yes, I do support spying upon US citizens not in the US, when there is cause.  That is allowed. Also, spying upon them without informing them of a warrant -- just as we have done upon the mafia for decades.  Why should we give terrorists more rights than a mafia don!  Mind you, per the Constitution, a warrant is needed if their property is entered or bugged.  Not, just observing them.

 

Definitely do not believe in using the military in violation of Posse Comitatus. Military may be used for disaster relief, and to secure the borders against illegal entry.

 

Same for the other laws.

 

As to torture, you're definitely overstepping. Like Colonel Trinquier, I believe torture has no place in a free society.  However, the third degree, as used by the police, definitely.  As to water boarding , yes!  However, as shown,  waterboarding is a psychological technique and does not physically harm those so treated. US military special ops and pilots undergo waterboarding as part of their training. That includes President Bush.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   

 

 Waterboarding has been deemed torture by our very own government.. As for the other, the Patriot Act allows the supsension of Habeas Corpus and the unlimited detainment of U.S. citizens without trial or access to the courts.

 You support the patriot act.

 Nothing I said was libelous.

 

 

Extra,

 

Not only are you a conspiracy nut, you have no idea of what you write! 

 

SEC. 412. MANDATORY DETENTION OF SUSPECTED TERRORISTS; HABEAS CORPUS; JUDICIAL REVIEW. 

 

(a) IN GENERAL- The Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq.) is amended by inserting after section 236 the following:

 

`MANDATORY DETENTION OF SUSPECTED TERRORISTS; HABEAS CORPUS; JUDICIAL REVIEW

 

`SEC. 236A. (a) DETENTION OF TERRORIST ALIENS-

 

`(1) CUSTODY- The Attorney General shall take into custody any alien who is certified under paragraph (3).

 

 

http://epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

 

Got that, it applies only to aliens, not US citizens. Even then, the aliens are allowed habeas corpus hearing every 6 months.  The website link contains the full text of the act.

 

Extra, you've been accepting the word of too many conspiracy websites, without checking things out for yourself.  Remember when you posted about the big FEMA secret prison complete with aerial photographs.  It was a prison, but in North Korea.

 

 Waterboarding has been deemed torture by our very own government.. As for the other, the Patriot Act allows the supsension of Habeas Corpus and the unlimited detainment of U.S. citizens without trial or access to the courts.

 You support the patriot act.

 Nothing I said was libelous.

 

When did any body of the US Government state that waterboarding was torture?  As to your second statement, I proved that false with my above post.

 

Libel refers to written statements.  Which you did make.  Slander refers to untrue speech, which you admittedly didn't make! 

Washington times.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...AR2005090900772.html

 

This superior court ruling allows the incarceration of a US citizen involved with active terrorist activity.  It did not suspend his habeas corpus rights.  The very fact that the courts were involved, obviates that argument.  Extra, again, you have no idea of what you write. 

 

Did a bit more research on the Supreme Court ruling on Pedilla.  The court ruled that he may be incarcerated under the President's powers as CiC during time of war.  The patriot act wasn't even cited during the hearing.  Got that, Extra, the President's power under the constitution.  They did rule Pedilla must be held under civilian authority and not military.  Nor, was his habeas corpus rights denied.  Indeed, the superior court cited that the Great Writ was not denied. 

 

Read it here:

 

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=03-1027

Last edited by interventor1212

No surprise here. North Carolina Democratic Governor Bev Perdue calls for a suspension of elections for 2 years, and the Liberal posters on this forum go into the "deflection" mode.

 

So, let's just put elections off for a couple of years UNTIL the economy gets better?

 

This is the REAL feelings of your Democrat Party, and it's liberal extremes. THEY are not interested in serving you in any  way other than to hold power over you.. 

 

They are seeing the major BOMB that they will be in 2012 and are in desperation. You are seeing nothing but attacks on any and every aspect of opposition parties. No merit of any kind to run on Obamas "record".

 

If Hillary EVER really wanted to be our nations first women president now's her chance. It's laid out for her on a silver plater. 

Originally Posted by Roland Pfalz:

No surprise here. North Carolina Democratic Governor Bev Perdue calls for a suspension of elections for 2 years, and the Liberal posters on this forum go into the "deflection" mode.

 

So, let's just put elections off for a couple of years UNTIL the economy gets better?

 

This is the REAL feelings of your Democrat Party, and it's liberal extremes. THEY are not interested in serving you in any  way other than to hold power over you.. 

 

They are seeing the major BOMB that they will be in 2012 and are in desperation. You are seeing nothing but attacks on any and every aspect of opposition parties. No merit of any kind to run on Obamas "record".

 

If Hillary EVER really wanted to be our nations first women president now's her chance. It's laid out for her on a silver plater. 

________________________________________________________

 

I agree with you Roland.

They have nothing to run on. The Great Change Experiment. What a Failure.

Regardless of weather elections are postponed (LOL) or not the only way things are going to change for the better is for us to elect people who care more about Our Country than their own Political Future. We got a inexperienced know-nothing President that needs to go. And again your right, If there was ever a time for Hillary to go for it, it’s now. Not that I would vote for her, but a lot of previous Obama supporters would.

Skippy

Originally Posted by marksw59:

Lest we forget, Obambi has at least once openly fantasized about how much easier it is for dictators, and the media minions agree. Not to mention the "progessive" media thinks there is too much Democracy. For these idiots, their little daydream is, "If we were only more like China..."

 

 

Presidents do tend to do that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvUEsm0wNIA, don't they?

Originally Posted by The Propagandist:
Originally Posted by marksw59:

Lest we forget, Obambi has at least once openly fantasized about how much easier it is for dictators, and the media minions agree. Not to mention the "progessive" media thinks there is too much Democracy. For these idiots, their little daydream is, "If we were only more like China..."

 

Presidents do tend to do that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvUEsm0wNIA, don't they?

That guy is an ex-President. Nice try...

Originally Posted by Mr.Dittohead:
Originally Posted by interventor1212:

Ditzy,

 

I love your blind response. I posted this a mildly humorous reference to the regressives hysteria over every action of Bush or Cheney.  They predicted the end of the Republic, death camps and mass denial of rights.  Their response was to call for military coups to topple Bush, impeachment and worse.  Assassination was a staple.  Thanks for proving the comic relief I sought!. Knee jerked on que! 

 



BushIIe set the precedent that the Constitution can be overlooked in the national interest.  YOu are a shining example of the traitorous type of Patriot the Patriot Act represents.  Why do you hate America?

 


 

Ditto is actually right on this one...the Patriot Act is a horrible affront to the Constitution and if the (faux) Tea Party believed in Constitutional principles, they would support the immediate repeal of it.

 

What Ditto gets wrong is "BushIIe set the precedent that the Constitution can be overlooked"...That precedent was set long ago...

 

(side note...the tue tea party was the Ron Paul Revolution of '08 and those that continue to support true Constitutional principles today.  That leaves out just about everyone on the Republican debate stage, with the exception of you know who...)

Jose Padilla, an American citizen held without charge for more than three years as an enemy combatant was indicted after three years of confinement. 

 

The indictment, which was returned by a federal grand jury in Miami, said that Mr. Padilla had plotted with four co-defendants in South Florida and elsewhere from October 1993 to the fall of 2001 to promote terrorist activities overseas.

 

As an alleged enemy combatant by executive fiat, Padilla was whisked away to military detention, and the government vigorously fought efforts to get him legal representation or to have his case heard in public by a judge. Technically, its argument was that any American could be held in secret and without legal proceedings simply on the unexamined word of a government official that he was ''the enemy."

 

Rather than face Supreme Court scrutiny over the length the government could incarcerat citizens without charges, Padilla was transferred to the Justice Department and indicted for supporting terrorism rather than for any intent to participate in a terrorist act, the original claim that resulted in the three year detention.

 

At his news briefing here, Mr. Gonzales credited the USA Patriot Act with helping to make the prosecution of Mr. Padilla possible

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11...cs/22cnd-terror.html

 

 

 

Originally Posted by interventor1212:

At least, it doesn't call for suspension of the Constitution, as did Governor Perdue.  Nor, did the arrest of Jose Pedilla come under the Patriot Act, as Extra claimed. 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 In those famous words: "YOU LIE"  I never mentioned Padilla in reference to the patriot act. I pointed out that the government had already used unlimited detention under Bush. As you pointed out, Bush claimed this privilege as Commander in chief. When the Patriot Act was written,,  ( As influenced by the Bush admin), this provision was written in.

 

 I was dead on, you are completely wrong. The patriot act allows for the incarceration of american civilians without access to the courts. it's not even an argument. All you are is smoke and mirrors and misdirection.

 

Originally Posted by marksw59:
Originally Posted by Extra-260:

 The patriot act allows for the incarceration of american civilians without access to the courts. it's not even an argument.

 

Why the concern? You like Obambi... you're insulated...

 

 I do not like Obama, i held my nose and voted for McCain.  I would have supported Obama if he were a real democrat. But as time has now shown,he is the third term of Bush. I can honestly say, I cannot stand Bush.

 

I find it mildly amusing that a Democrat governor of North Carolina could call for suspension of the US Constitution without an out pour of outrage.  If a Republican had called for such action, during the Bush era,

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Well actually I did, I wanted to go ahead and make him King of America, but it didn't get a lot of press.

Ditzy’s post:

 “Jose Padilla, an American citizen held without charge for more than three years as an enemy combatant was indicted after three years of confinement. 

 

The indictment, which was returned by a federal grand jury in Miami, said that Mr. Padilla had plotted with four co-defendants in South Florida and elsewhere from October 1993 to the fall of 2001 to promote terrorist activities overseas.

 

 As an alleged enemy combatant by executive fiat (sic), Padilla was whisked away to military detention, and the government vigorously fought efforts to get him legal representation or to have his case heard in public by a judge. Technically, its argument was that any American could be held in secret and without legal proceedings simply on the unexamined word of a government official that he was ''the enemy."

 

 Rather than face Supreme Court scrutiny over the length the government could incarcerat (sic) citizens without charges, Padilla was transferred to the Justice Department and indicted for supporting terrorism rather than for any intent to participate in a terrorist act, the original claim that resulted in the three year detention.

 

 At his news briefing here, Mr. Gonzales credited the USA Patriot Act with helping to make the prosecution of Mr. Padilla possible.”

 http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11...cs/22cnd-terror.html

 Ditzy,

What Gonzales said was this:

 

“At his news briefing here, Mr. Gonzales credited the USA Patriot Act with helping to make the prosecution of Mr. Padilla possible.

 

Passed by Congress shortly after Sept. 11, 2001, the act broadened government surveillance powers. Mr. Gonzales said the measure had been effective at "tearing down the artificial wall" that had impeded information-sharing among certain law-enforcement agencies.”

 

IAW, the Patriot Act allowed the sharing of domestic intelligence and intelligence obtained from a foreign source – that is FBI, NSA and CIA.  Nothing to do with violating any civil rights, nor the constitution.  If you’re going to cite a source please read it first.  Otherwise, you’re going to just look foolish, if not pig-ignorant. 

 

As showed in my earlier post, the superior court held Pedilla’s arrest and treatment to emanate from the Constitution, not the Patriot Act.  If fact, at no time did they cite the Patriot Act.  The one error the government made was to hold Pedilla in military, rather than civil custody. 

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×