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Hi to all my Forum Friends,

In the discussion "WhyBCatholic?" begun by VP, Renecillo has asked a very important question, "Why don't all of you answer a simple question: Are (Roman) Catholic people saved?"

Ren, a person's salvation does not depend upon which church one attends. The only way that a person is saved -- is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ; to have Jesus Christ in our heart.

How does one achieve this? We are told in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

So, based upon that Scripture passage, we know that a person is saved, by the GRACE of God, through FAITH in Jesus Christ. And, we know that it is not something we can gain by working for it, for it is a FREE GIFT of, or from, God. It is NOT the results of ANY works we might do.

However, once we are saved -- a person's relationship with Jesus Christ should lead him/her to be doing good works in the name of Jesus Christ. Do you see? The "works" follow the salvation.

James 2:14 asks the question, "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" The answer: YES! We have confirmation of that in Ephesians 2:8-9. And, James continues, in James 2:17-18, [i]"Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. But someone may well say, 'You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.'"

And, 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 concludes with, "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

So, salvation leads to works. Works do not lead to salvation.

Jesus told us, in John 3:3, 5, that "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. . . . Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What does this mean -- to be born again of the "water" and the "Spirit"?

In Jesus' conversation with the woman of Samaria, in John 4:14, we read, "But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

This tells me that the "water" is the Living Word of God -- for when the woman of Samaria is thinking of material water from the ground -- Jesus is speaking of spiritual water from God, i.e., the Word of God.

So, Ren, everyone who, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, believes and receives His "free gift" of eternal life -- in other words, who is born again of the water and the Spirit -- is saved. It is not the church; but this saving relationship with Jesus Christ which saves a person.

On the other hand, when a person is saved, now has a relationship with Jesus Christ, is indwelled and sealed with the Holy Spirit -- the result of that salvation should lead him/her to desire to do good things in the name of Jesus Christ.

Finally, Ren, to go back to your initial question, "Are (Roman) Catholic people saved?"

The answer is, "Yes, some are" -- just as some Baptist are saved, some Methodist are saved, some Episcopalians are saved; some in all Christian churches are saved -- and others, in all the churches, only wear the Christian hat for their own personal reasons.

Assuming a person is attending a church which teaches the Essential Christian Beliefs; there is a good chance this person is saved. But, until we each personally make an individual choice to turn from following the world and turn to following only Jesus Christ, i.e., becomes a Christ Follower -- we are not saved. We each MUST choose to follow Jesus Christ or to deny Him. It is personal choice which neither the church, nor anyone else, can make for us.

Ren, I pray that I have answered your question sufficiently. And, I pray that it will help more of our Religion Forum Friends understand what it means when we say that we have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ -- and not a religion.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi to all my Forum Friends,

In the discussion "WhyBCatholic?" begun by VP, Renecillo has asked a very important question, "Why don't all of you answer a simple question: Are (Roman) Catholic people saved?"

Ren, a person's salvation does not depend upon which church one attends. The only way that a person is saved -- is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ; to have Jesus Christ in our heart.

How does one achieve this? We are told in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

So, based upon that Scripture passage, we know that a person is saved, by the GRACE of God, through FAITH in Jesus Christ. And, we know that it is not something we can gain by working for it, for it is a FREE GIFT of, or from, God. It is NOT the results of ANY works we might do.

However, once we are saved -- a person's relationship with Jesus Christ should lead him/her to be doing good works in the name of Jesus Christ. Do you see? The "works" follow the salvation.

James 2:14 asks the question, "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" The answer: YES! We have confirmation of that in Ephesians 2:8-9. And, James continues, in James 2:17-18, [i]"Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. But someone may well say, 'You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.'"

And, 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 concludes with, "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

So, salvation leads to works. Works do not lead to salvation.

Jesus told us, in John 3:3, 5, that "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. . . . Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What does this mean -- to be born again of the "water" and the "Spirit"?

In Jesus' conversation with the woman of Samaria, in John 4:14, we read, "But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

This tells me that the "water" is the Living Word of God -- for when the woman of Samaria is thinking of material water from the ground -- Jesus is speaking of spiritual water from God, i.e., the Word of God.

So, Ren, everyone who, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, believes and receives His "free gift" of eternal life -- in other words, who is born again of the water and the Spirit -- is saved. It is not the church; but this saving relationship with Jesus Christ which saves a person.

On the other hand, when a person is saved, now has a relationship with Jesus Christ, is indwelled and sealed with the Holy Spirit -- the result of that salvation should lead him/her to desire to do good things in the name of Jesus Christ.

Finally, Ren, to go back to your initial question, "Are (Roman) Catholic people saved?"

The answer is, "Yes, some are" -- just as some Baptist are saved, some Methodist are saved, some Episcopalians are saved; some in all Christian churches are saved -- and others, in all the churches, only wear the Christian hat for their own personal reasons.

Assuming a person is attending a church which teaches the Essential Christian Beliefs; there is a good chance this person is saved. But, until we each personally make an individual choice to turn from following the world and turn to following only Jesus Christ, i.e., becomes a Christ Follower -- we are not saved. We each MUST choose to follow Jesus Christ or to deny Him. It is personal choice which neither the church, nor anyone else, can make for us.

Ren, I pray that I have answered your question sufficiently. And, I pray that it will help more of our Religion Forum Friends understand what it means when we say that we have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ -- and not a religion.


bg--- 1 Cor 3:10-15


That's a lie about the meaning. You'er lying again. What do you hope to
gain. It's saying in living your life you've done some good things, But some work
is still with you. That sin will be atoned for in purgatory. You enter heaven
without sin on your soul. I'll bet my soul on it, any takers?
quote:
Originally posted by renecillo7:
Bill: But catholics are not baptized, only as babies, so how are they obeying the word of God?

Hi Ren,

No one is saved through baptism. Baptism is an outward manifestation of an inner change, i.e., regeneration to a new person in Jesus Christ.

Communion and baptism are ordinances we follow in remembrance of Him and honoring what He has done for us on the cross.

Personally, I have been baptized several times. The first was when I was in the Air Force. A friend and I began to read the Bible together and decided we wanted to be baptized. Why did we want to be baptized? We had no idea. We were not Christian believers -- but, we had heard that we must be baptized. So, we went to the chaplain.

The chaplain was from a large denominational church and practiced baptism by sprinkling. When we approached him about being baptized -- he asked no questions to see if we truly understood what we were doing, why we were doing it, and did not even ask if we were attending worship services -- which we were not.

He took us into his office, sprinkled water on our head, and sent us on our way. Applying for a car loan would have been more personal; at least he would have asked our name and other pertinent information. This man asked nothing and explained nothing -- just quickly too care of business and bid us goodbye.

In the early 1960s, in Southern California, I was dating a girl who was Roman Catholic -- and, since we were considering marriage, we decided to take Catechism lessons together. When I told the priest about my Air Force chaplain baptism and asked if I needed to be baptized again -- his answer blew my mind. These are his exact words: "It all depends upon which way the water rolled when he sprinkled you." Honest! Those were his exact words. Do you wonder why I stopped taking Catechism lessons from him?

In 1987, I truly did become a Christian believer. But, I was not baptized until much later. About six months after I was saved, we had a baptismal service at the home of a church friend. There were about ten people who were baptized in our friend's swimming pool.

But, what if I had died after being saved -- but, before being baptized -- would I have gone to heaven? YES! Absolutely no doubt about it -- for I had, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believed and received His "free gift" of salvation. At that moment, I was indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit. I was saved! And, nothing or no one could take that from me.

Six months after being saved, I was baptized to declare to the world that I am a Christ Follower.

Ren, it would be nice, but not necessary, if they received a believer's baptism. If they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ; have asked Him into their hearts -- they are Christian believers.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
bg--- 1 Cor 3:10-15
That's a lie about the meaning. You'er lying again. What do you hope to gain. It's saying in living your life you've done some good things, But some work is still with you. That sin will be atoned for in purgatory. You enter heaven without sin on your soul. I'll bet my soul on it, any takers?

Hi Child,

Once again, you are standing in the school yard screaming, "You are lying! You are wrong!" -- but, you do not tell us what that Scripture passage really means.

So, Child, please -- tell us the meaning of this Scripture passage in your own words. Please do not give us your priest's interpretation -- but, your own personal interpetation.

You cannot say I am wrong -- unless you give us the right interpretation to prove I am wrong.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bil

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quote:
1 Corinthians 3:10-15

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (New International Version)

10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

quote:
So, salvation leads to works. Works do not lead to salvation. Bill Gray


No, if what he has built survives, he receives his reward. Works do lead to salvation.
http://www.bible.ca/g-faith-only.htm

James has much to say on the subject of faith and works. For example: "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone" James 2: 17.

While the Bible says: "By the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified", it also says in James Chapter 2, verse 24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified and not by faith only." '

The Bible makes it clear in that same passage that while we are being saved through the washing of regeneration (or baptism) and the renewing of the Holy Ghost that it is not by works done in righteousness which we have done ourselves. But if we do not submit ourselves to the righteousness of God in obedience to his word, we cannot be saved.

Never in any age or dispensation in human history has God saved man by faith alone. God has always required faith and obedience. No other formula for salvation has ever worked.
None ever will. Jesus said: "'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" Mark 16: 16. It is faith plus obedience. This is the embodiment of the principle under which God has always worked in saving man. It is utter folly to expect him to make an exception to the rule now and save anyone by faith only and without obedience.
Hi Renecillo7,

Gifted Child told you, "Ren, (Roman) Catholics have a Confirmation at age 12. They reafirm (sic) their baptism. They believe in one baptism for the forgivness (sic) of sin."

And you respond to her, "Gifted Child: Is 12 the age of accountability? When you are supposed to know right from wrong -- is the correct age for baptism, is it not? I have seen many 12 year olds that don't know the difference."

Ren, although we all are born having an Adam-imputed sin nature -- young children do not have personal sins attributed to their accounts. In God's eyes, these children are white as snow. Yes, they, like all of us, have a sin nature -- but, that is the reason that Jesus Christ came to earth in a human body, died on the cross, and was resurrected -- that He might pay our sin debt to God. His death on the cross "paid in full" our sin debt -- and His resurrection assured our resurrection into immortal bodies. Since those children have no personal sins -- when they die young, or are aborted, they go directly into the arms of Jesus Christ.

So, what is the "age of accountability"? It is the age when a child begins to truly understand the difference between good and evil, right and wrong -- and when that child is mature enough to truly understand belief, repentance, confession, and baptism. As you said, Ren, some reach this maturity younger than others.

Pastor Don Martin, of Holly Street Church of Christ, Denver, Colorado, gives a good explanation of the age of accountability on their Bible Questions web site: http://www.biblequestions.org

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Question: What is the age of accountability?

Answer: Accountability, as used in our question, pertains to an individual being responsible to God.

Knowledge between good and evil. Involved in spiritual accountability is a knowledge of good and evil. Relative to some of the children of the Israelites we read, "Moreover your little ones...which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil..." (Deut. 1: 39). There is a time in the absence of a certain level of development in a child's life that they do not know to choose good and refuse evil (cf. Isa. 7: 16). It is obvious that Jesus had such children in mind when he said, "Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 18: 3).

The age of accountability is when one understands, is capable of believing, repenting, confessing Jesus' deity, and being baptized. Sin is lawlessness (I Jn. 3: 4). Belief requires certain intellectual and volitional abilities (Jn. 8: 24). Repentance, confession, and baptism entail abilities which small children do not possess. Belief, repentance, confession, and baptism are all equally essential to initial salvation or, put another way, exercising accountability.

Some say when a child reaches twelve years of age, they are accountable. This is an arbitrary age – some could be, some may not be. In view of the foregoing, I think it is apparent that individuals reach the age of accountability at different ages, as each mature differently. Remember, though, accountability always involves responsibility.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
1 Corinthians 3:10-15

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (New International Version)

10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

quote:
So, salvation leads to works. Works do not lead to salvation. Bill Gray


No, if what he has built survives, he receives his reward. Works do lead to salvation.

Hi B,

Either you have a Reading Comprehension problem -- or you have Tunnel Vision. If you would have continued to read in the Scripture passage you quoted -- you would have seen: ]15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved[/b].

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Oh I read it just fine Bill. You already used just that last line, ignoring all the lines before it. You also forgot all the other scriptures that mention doing work. Convenient.

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone" James 2: 17.

"By the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified", it also says in James Chapter 2, verse 24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified and not by faith only."
Paul speaks of faith as a life-long process, never as a one-time experience (Philippians 2:12). He never assumes he has nothing to worry about. If he did, his words in (1 Corinthians 9:24-27) would be nonsensical. He reiterates the same point again in his second letter to Corinth (2 Corinthians 13:5). He takes nothing for granted, yet all would agree if anyone was "born again" it certainly was Paul. Our Lord and Savior spoke of the same thing by "remaining in Him" (John 15:1-11).

Paul tells us our faith is living and can go through many stages. It never stays permanently fixed after a single conversion experience no matter how genuine or sincere. Our faith can be shipwrecked (1 Timothy 1:19), departed from (1 Timothy 4:1), disowned (1 Timothy 5:8) wandered from (1 Timothy 6:10), and missed (1 Timothy 6:21). Christians do not have a "waiver" that exempts them from these verses.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
James has much to say on the subject of faith and works. For example: "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone" James 2: 17.

Hi B,

To repeat my earlier post:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ren, a person's salvation does not depend upon which church one attends. The only way that a person is saved -- is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ; to have Jesus Christ in our heart.

How does one achieve this? We are told in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

So, based upon that Scripture passage, we know that a person is saved, by the GRACE of God, through FAITH in Jesus Christ. And, we know that it is not something we can gain by working for it, for it is a FREE GIFT of, or from, God. It is NOT the results of ANY works we might do.

However, once we are saved -- a person's relationship with Jesus Christ should lead him/her to be doing good works in the name of Jesus Christ. Do you see? The "works" follow the salvation.

James 2:14 asks the question, "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" The answer: YES! We have confirmation of that in Ephesians 2:8-9. And, James continues, in James 2:17-18, [i]"Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. But someone may well say, 'You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.'"

And, 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 concludes with, "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

So, salvation leads to works. Works do not lead to salvation.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

By the way, B50, if you are going to quote that web site -- you should also quote their page on Sola Scriptura -- "By Scripture Alone!"

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Oh I read it just fine Bill. You already used just that last line, ignoring all the lines before it. You also forgot all the other scriptures that mention doing work. Convenient.

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone" James 2: 17.

"By the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified", it also says in James Chapter 2, verse 24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified and not by faith only."

Hi B,

Yes, salvation through faith that is not followed by fruit of that salvation (good works in the name of Jesus Christ) is dead. However, as we are told in 1 Corinthians 3:15, "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

If you want more proof of salvation through FAITH, read Hebrews, chapter 11. It is called the Faith Chapter for it repeatedly tells of Old Testament saints who were saved, i.e., declared righteous by God -- solely because of their FAITH.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Revelation 20:11-13

11And I saw a great white throne and the One sitting on it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled away, and a place was not found for them. 12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, having stood before the throne, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is [the Scroll] of Life. And the dead were judged by the [things] having been written in the scrolls, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead, the [ones] in it, and death and the realm of the dead [Gr. hades] gave up the dead, the [ones] in them. And they were judged, each one according to their works.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Paul speaks of faith as a life-long process, never as a one-time experience (Philippians 2:12). He never assumes he has nothing to worry about. If he did, his words in (1 Corinthians 9:24-27) would be nonsensical. He reiterates the same point again in his second letter to Corinth (2 Corinthians 13:5). He takes nothing for granted, yet all would agree if anyone was "born again" it certainly was Paul. Our Lord and Savior spoke of the same thing by "remaining in Him" (John 15:1-11).

Paul tells us our faith is living and can go through many stages. It never stays permanently fixed after a single conversion experience no matter how genuine or sincere. Our faith can be shipwrecked (1 Timothy 1:19), departed from (1 Timothy 4:1), disowned (1 Timothy 5:8) wandered from (1 Timothy 6:10), and missed (1 Timothy 6:21). Christians do not have a "waiver" that exempts them from these verses.

Hi B,

Salvation, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ -- and the subsequent indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit -- is a ONE TIME EVENT. A person cannot be saved over and over. It is ONCE for ETERNITY!

However, yes -- our faith does continue to grow as we mature in our knowledge of God's Word and in our daily walk with the Lord. Spiritual atrophy can set in if a person is not actively working to become more mature in his/her Christian walk. The result is that this person is not an effective Christian witness. However, even with spiritual atrophy -- that person is still saved. As a matter of fact, that would be a good description of what the apostle Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 3:15.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
If you want more proof of salvation through FAITH, read Hebrews, chapter 11. It is called the Faith Chapter for it repeatedly tells of Old Testament saints who were saved, i.e., declared righteous by God -- solely because of their FAITH.

It tells of people doing things because of their faith in God. They took chances and risks and prayed, all works.
They all did something to earn their faith.
It is ONCE for ETERNITY!However, even with spiritual atrophy -- that person is still saved


quote:
He takes nothing for granted


Then why did Paul tell us that we can lose our faith, that is, lose our salvation? If a person was once saved, then lost faith and became an atheist, by that logic, they would still be saved.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m: Revelation 20:11-13

11 And I saw a great white throne and the One sitting on it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled away, and a place was not found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, having stood before the throne, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is [the Scroll] of Life. And the dead were judged by the [things] having been written in the scrolls, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead, the [ones] in it, and death and the realm of the dead [Gr. hades] gave up the dead, the [ones] in them. And they were judged, each one according to their works.

Hi B,

Actually, you should include Revelation 20:11-15 for verse 15 gives the final result of not believing. This passage is speaking of the Great White Throne Judgment, which is the judgment of punishment for all non-believers.

In 2 Corinthians 5:10 we find that everyone must stand before Jesus Christ in judgment, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."

You see, the church, the body of Christian believers will stand before Jesus Christ in a judgment of rewards (Bema Seat Judgment) during the seven years of Tribulation. This is confirmed in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 and 2 Corinthians 5:10. This will happen in heaven, after the Rapture, and before His Second Coming.

During all this time, those who died in non-belief will be in Hades/Torment with the rich man of Luke 16:1-31. After the Second Coming of Christ and His 1000 year Millennial Reign from the throne of David in Jerusalem -- those non-believer who are in Hades/Torment will be resurrected into their immortal bodies (Revelation 20:5) and will stand before Jesus Christ in a judgment of punishment. Then, as we are told in verse 15, they will be thrown into the lake of fire.

B50, that is a good passage, but, where you were hoping to prove salvation through works with "And they were judged, each one according to their works" (verse 13) -- what you have really found is the condemnation of non-believers whose "works" were for Satan and not for God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
If you want more proof of salvation through FAITH, read Hebrews, chapter 11. It is called the Faith Chapter for it repeatedly tells of Old Testament saints who were saved, i.e., declared righteous by God -- solely because of their FAITH.

It tells of people doing things because of their faith in God. They took chances and risks and prayed, all works. They all did something to earn their faith.

Hi B,

Now, you are getting it! First comes FAITH in God -- then comes WORKS -- and, for that FAITH, they were counted righteous.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
It is ONCE for ETERNITY!However, even with spiritual atrophy -- that person is still saved

Then why did Paul tell us that we can lose our faith, that is, lose our salvation? If a person was once saved, then lost faith and became an atheist, by that logic, they would still be saved.

Hi B,

Where in the Bible does Paul tell us we can lose our salvation?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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