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Why can't the SBC mind their own business???

Top Down BeemerTop Down BeemerHall of Famer
Yet another fantastic idea that would bring much needed tourist dollars to the state of Alabama but the Southern Baptists want it squashed! Mad Yet another case of "if you don't like it then don't go" but don't prevent others from enjoying it! Thoughts anyone??? (I know I'm asking for it, but I can't seem to help myself Big Grin)

A Wine Trail in Alabama
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B beternUOld Faithful
I read the article in the link you posted. It says, among other things:

"The trail includes seven wineries in six different cities.

* * * * * * * * * *

Morgan Creek Vineyard points out at every tasting each person is only allowed 6 ounces of wine, which totals about one glass."

Let's see, now--people driving along the highways from winery to winery--seven wineries in six different cities--and able to drink 6 ounces of wine at each winery. That comes to a potential total of 42 ounces of wine per person, which is obviously more than enough to impair the ability to drive a car from city to city in search of the epicurean delights of the old vino. Do we really want folks out in their cars on the highways wining and driving from city to city, when it opens up such potential for increasing the incidence of DUI?

This trail could easily become too "happy."
T tnt5862Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
I read the article in the link you posted. It says, among other things:

"The trail includes seven wineries in six different cities.

* * * * * * * * * *

Morgan Creek Vineyard points out at every tasting each person is only allowed 6 ounces of wine, which totals about one glass."

Let's see, now--people driving along the highways from winery to winery--seven wineries in six different cities--and able to drink 6 ounces of wine at each winery. That comes to a potential total of 42 ounces of wine per person, which is obviously more than enough to impair the ability to drive a car from city to city in search of the epicurean delights of the old vino. Do we really want folks out in their cars on the highways wining and driving from city to city, when it opens up such potential for increasing the incidence of DUI?

This trail could easily become too "happy."


Are you for real ??? lol
Top Down BeemerTop Down BeemerHall of Famer
210 - I can't tell if you're being "tongue in cheek" or not, so I'll answer you as if you're serious.

I'm a Christian (have been for almost 30 yrs) who was raised in the Shoals when it was dry and I don't see anything at all wrong with wineries, wine tours, wine trails or sipping on a lovely Chardonnay or Cabernet. Jesus' very first miracle was turning water to WINE at a wedding. It's amazing how everyone arguing against alcohol wants to conveniently forget about that one. They like to skip ahead to the "good" ones like healing the blind and lame, raising the dead, etc.

Alcohol-related or not, the behavior that displeases God is over-indulgence in ANYTHING so that it harms your body. If you really want to go that route, then all the burger joints, greasy spoon diners, and KFCs in the state should have to go on the SBCs hit list too, for openly promoting the sin of gluttony.
B beternUOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
Just FYI, you metabolize alcohol at a rate that reduces your BAC by an average of 0.015% per hour. The amount of increase of BAC (for me) of 6 ounces of wine (20% alcohol, est) over one hour will increase my BAC by 0.02%.

Try it out for yourself...

http://www.1800duilaws.com/forms/bac.asp


Okay--I accepted your invitation. Instead of plugging in my weight, I used 150 pounds, with 42 ounces consumed (which is the total amount available according to the news article), assuming 12 percent alcohol content (more conservative than the 15-20 percent used in the table) and stretched it out over an improbable 8 hours. The result I obtained was a blood alcohol content of 0.132, which would land me in jail in about every state in the union. My results--using the system you recommended--were as follows: "In MOST and possibly ALL states you would be considered intoxicated and arrested for DUI if driving."

Will the promoters of the wine trail find designated drivers for the segment of wine tasters who max out on their opportunity?

Sort of ironic that your source of information is a web site that is designed to appeal to folks who are having trouble with DUI problems.
Top Down BeemerTop Down BeemerHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by tnt5862:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
I read the article in the link you posted. It says, among other things:

"The trail includes seven wineries in six different cities.

* * * * * * * * * *

Morgan Creek Vineyard points out at every tasting each person is only allowed 6 ounces of wine, which totals about one glass."

Let's see, now--people driving along the highways from winery to winery--seven wineries in six different cities--and able to drink 6 ounces of wine at each winery. That comes to a potential total of 42 ounces of wine per person, which is obviously more than enough to impair the ability to drive a car from city to city in search of the epicurean delights of the old vino. Do we really want folks out in their cars on the highways wining and driving from city to city, when it opens up such potential for increasing the incidence of DUI?

This trail could easily become too "happy."


Are you for real ??? lol


tnt - I'm guessing that beternU has NEVER gone on a wine tasting adventure before. You don't just walk in, belly up to the bar and start swilling down wine. You take a tour of the grounds, the fermenting and bottling facilities, and then you are given the opportunity to taste a select number of wines, usually around 6 - 3 red, 3 white. Again, the operative word is "TASTE". They pour a miniscule, pre-measured amount of wine into tiny glasses so you can get an idea if you like the wine. It usually takes two sips to finish the wine. They also have crackers, bread, and sometimes other finger foods for you to eat between tasting to cleanse your palate. The whole process is leisurely and fun but you would have an EXTREMELY difficult time getting drunk, even if you did visit all six wineries and sampled every wine being offered.
B beternUOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Top Down Beemer:
210 - I can't tell if you're being "tongue in cheek" or not, so I'll answer you as if you're serious.

I'm a Christian (have been for almost 30 yrs) who was raised in the Shoals when it was dry and I don't see anything at all wrong with wineries, wine tours, wine trails or sipping on a lovely Chardonnay or Cabernet. Jesus' very first miracle was turning water to WINE at a wedding. It's amazing how everyone arguing against alcohol wants to conveniently forget about that one. They like to skip ahead to the "good" ones like healing the blind and lame, raising the dead, etc.

Alcohol-related or not, the behavior that displeases God is over-indulgence in ANYTHING so that it harms your body. If you really want to go that route, then all the burger joints, greasy spoon diners, and KFCs in the state should have to go on the SBCs hit list too, for openly promoting the sin of gluttony.


Gluttony is not good, but I have yet to read about an overfed driver crashing into a car and killing several innocent members of a family or crashing into a tree at 3 a.m and killing his own fool self, as happens to various members of the beer-guzzling contingent from time to time around our area.
Top Down BeemerTop Down BeemerHall of Famer
Well, beternU, as I am not a beer guzzler (I don't like beer), nor a "guzzler" of any beverage, intoxicating or not, then your crude little comment does not apply to me. When I drink alcohol, I do it responsibly. I either have a designated driver or I don't drink more than one glass of wine or one mixed drink prior to eating a meal, during which the effects of the alcohol in my body will diminish so that by the time I leave, I'm not going to be crashing into anyone or anything. Besides, my comment was not made to address drunk driving, which I think is wrong and had not even been brought up, but in answer to the question regarding wine tasting being "pleasing to God". Try to keep up.

And FYI, the type of people who are "guzzlers" are NOT the target demographic of the wine tours anyway. Those people aren't interested enough to appreciate the fine subtleties of wine tasting (unless it's Boones Farm), so you probably don't need to worry about them. Again, wine tasting is for people who want to enhance their lives by discovering new and different wines that they, in turn, purchase and TAKE HOME with them - NOT to consume on the winery property straight from the bottle!

Geez, do you work at being this narrow-minded and nasty or is it a gift???
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
First, after going to wine tastings, they are careful about people who appear to have had too much to drink, as they have some legal liability. Not sure what the laws in Alabama are in this regard.

At 0.13%, you are definintely intoxicated. Years ago, the legal limit for presumption was 0.10%.

Are you going to take responsibility for yourself, or rely on someone to make your decision for you? If you're not responsible enough to make your own decisions, as the leadership of the SBC seem to think, you should probably stay home. When we go on wine tastings, we go in a group and one person is the designated driver. This is the responsible, adult way to go about it. A wine tasting is not the opportunity to go binge drinking...it is a relaxing, social occasion among friends.

But drunk driving is certainly NOT the objection being raised by the SBC.
Top Down BeemerTop Down BeemerHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by excelman:
I'm just surprised that the COC have not joined in this narrow minded fundamentalism.


Just give them time excelman...I was raised CofC and I would bet you any amount of money that they are at this very moment reserving their seats on the SBCs bandwagon! It's amazing how the two can have such solidarity on issues like this that they want to fight against but can't manage to do so in other arenas. Truly a classic love/hate relationship between the Baptists and CofC'ers.
B beternUOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Top Down Beemer:
Well, beternU, as I am not a beer guzzler (I don't like beer), nor a "guzzler" of any beverage, intoxicating or not, then your crude little comment does not apply to me. When I drink alcohol, I do it responsibly. I either have a designated driver or I don't drink more than one glass of wine or one mixed drink prior to eating a meal, during which the effects of the alcohol in my body will diminish so that by the time I leave, I'm not going to be crashing into anyone or anything. Besides, my comment was not made to address drunk driving, which I think is wrong and had not even been brought up, but in answer to the question regarding wine tasting being "pleasing to God". Try to keep up.

And FYI, the type of people who are "guzzlers" are NOT the target demographic of the wine tours anyway. Those people aren't interested enough to appreciate the fine subtleties of wine tasting (unless it's Boones Farm), so you probably don't need to worry about them. Again, wine tasting is for people who want to enhance their lives by discovering new and different wines that they, in turn, purchase and TAKE HOME with them - NOT to consume on the winery property straight from the bottle!

Geez, do you work at being this narrow-minded and nasty or is it a gift???


You miss my point, Top Down, and you probably miss it intentionally. When I referred to gluttony and its consequences, I was responding to your own condemnation of that practice as something that is admittedly unhealthy and destructive, but my point was to contrast gluttony and alcohol abuse--the same two things you were comparing as forms of "over-indulgence" (your selected term). My comparison showed clearly and indisputably that the consequences of one form of over-indulgence (gluttony) do not include such impacts on others as death of innocent persons on the highway or deaths of the imbibers themselves as a consequence of becoming unintentionally united with fixed objects at high speeds after having over-indulged in alcohol. It was YOUR broad and generic comparison of drunkenness and gluttony that elicited my reply. It was YOU who introduced the subject of gluttony, which neither I nor the Southern Baptists (of which I am not one) had brought into the discussion, so kindly refrain from lecturing me as to how and whether the particular objections of the SBC are or are not relevant to the comments I submit on the general matter of wine trails and potential DUI effects. I am in no way required to be limited in my concerns to those previously iterated by Baptists or others.

Jay Leno--who will NOT accept alcohol advertising on his show--once explained his position someting like this: I have never heard of anyone killed in a car wreck where the investigating cops connected the crash to empty bags of Fritos strewed around the car.
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
Anytime alcohol is mentioned on these posts, the knee-jerk reaction of "DUI! DUI!" comes out in droves. Unfortunately, that is one of the many risks involved in living in a free society. One of the off-shoots of our moral lapse is the failure of society to hold people strictly accountable for their actions. Drunk driving is not because someone is criminally irresponsible, it's because alcohol is available. Firearm murders are not because someone can't control their rage, it's because of the easy availability of handguns. In certain parts of the world, drunk driving is punishable by death (I believe Kenya(?)) but even so, they still had people driving drunk. So the typical response of the nanny-statists is NOT to hold people accountable for stupid choices, but deny everyone any choice whatsoever.

I'll take my chances with people leaving wine tastings, but I will draw the line at people trying to build nuclear weapons in their barns.

And Jay Leno is being replaced. That sucks, but maybe with someone who is more pliable?
Top Down BeemerTop Down BeemerHall of Famer
I missed NOTHING - intentionally or otherwise. I was answering the post of another forum member who was asking about wine tasting and whether or not it was pleasing to God. Yes, I introduced gluttony. I intentionally brought gluttony into the discussion because it's one of those sins that good Southern Baptists are very p-r-i-c-k-l-e-y about because you guys can't change a light bulb without building a church social around it and bringing out the fattening stuff.

My whole point when I started this forum is that the SBCs complaint isn't about people driving drunk after attending a wine tasting. Their complaint is against demon alcohol in general and how NOBODY should consume the stuff period. It is NOT for them to dictate how every other human being should conduct their lives. In fact, if you took an anonymous poll you would find that approx. 90% of good Southern Baptists routinely ingest all sorts of alcoholic beverages.

I also challenge you on your statement of how gluttony has never had a negative impact on the person indulging in it or on innocent persons. Really? How many fatherless or motherless children do you know with a parent who has died of a heart attack or other debilitating health problems because they literally ate themselves into an early grave? I grew up with plenty of those kids. I even lost a friend from high school who died of a massive coronary at 30 yrs old due to this very thing. And what about those people who die at the wheel of their cars after experiencing a stroke/heart attack and sometimes take others with them? Sure, not all of those attacks are directly related to gluttony, but I'll bet you a lot of them are if you were to trace the health history of those people.

Good for Jay Leno - he can afford to take any stance he wants on the Tonight Show - it's HIS show; but I don't see him out on stage telling everyone in the state of California that we should shut down the wineries and everyone who drinks wine or attends a wine tasting is going to hell.
B beternUOld Faithful
quote:
I also challenge you on your statement of how gluttony has never had a negative impact on the person indulging in it or on innocent persons. Really?


I never made any such all-inclusive statement. I posted just this: "My comparison showed clearly and indisputably that the consequences of one form of over-indulgence (gluttony) do not include such impacts on others as death of innocent persons on the highway or deaths of the imbibers themselves as a consequence of becoming unintentionally united with fixed objects at high speeds after having over-indulged in alcohol." Now, in honest response to your answer, I will acknowledge that there are likely a few instances in which untimely strokes brought on by overeating and obesity have resulted in auto crashes and deaths and injury. But you well know that any such rare incidents pale in comparison with the 25,000 or so annual alcohol-related deaths on the roads of this nation.

I continue to be astounded by the lengths that seemingly rational people go to to justify continued use of mind-altering drugs and expansion of opportunities to consume them. The highest and best expressions of the human spirit are not generated under the influence of such substances. In fact, the predominant effects of imbibition are to decrease the quality of rational discourse, lower inhibitions and in generally encourage irresponsible and immature behavior. Upton Sinclair correctly called alcohol THE CUP OF FURY.
mandomamamandomamaHall of Famer
"My friends,

I had not intended to discuss this controversial subject at this particular time. However, I want you to know that I do not shun controversy. On the contrary, I will take a stand on any issue at any time, regardless of how fraught with controversy it might be. You have asked me how I feel about whiskey. All right, here is how I feel about whiskey.

If when you say whiskey you mean the devil's brew, the poison scourge, the bloody monster, that defiles innocence, dethrones reason, destroys the home, creates misery and poverty, yea, literally takes the bread from the mouths of little children; if you mean the evil drink that topples the Christian man and woman from the pinnacle of righteous, gracious living into the bottomless pit of degradation, and despair, and shame and helplessness, and hopelessness, then certainly I am against it.

But,

If when you say whiskey you mean the oil of conversation, the philosophic wine, the ale that is consumed when good fellows get together, that puts a song in their hearts and laughter on their lips, and the warm glow of contentment in their eyes; if you mean Christmas cheer; if you mean the stimulating drink that puts the spring in the old gentleman's step on a frosty, crispy morning; if you mean the drink which enables a man to magnify his joy, and his happiness, and to forget, if only for a little while, life's great tragedies, and heartaches, and sorrows; if you mean that drink, the sale of which pours into our treasuries untold millions of dollars, which are used to provide tender care for our little crippled children, our blind, our deaf, our dumb, our pitiful aged and infirm; to build highways and hospitals and schools, then certainly I am for it.

This is my stand. I will not retreat from it. I will not compromise."

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on it, too. This speech was given by Judge "Soggy" Sweat in 1952 to the Mississippi House of Representatives when they were debating legalizing liquor. It has been coined the "Whiskey Speech". I think that if the temptation to drink irresponsibly is too great, then don't do it. If you can "hold your liquor", so to speak, then the choice is yours. If I think it is morally wrong to shop at WalMart, do I have the right to deny everyone else in the state of Alabama the pleasure (if it is for them) of doing so? I could argue the sweat shops where WalMart purchases their goods are every bit as harmful as the drunk drivers on our roads in the USA. Do not the peoples of Asia, South America and other undeveloped countries have every right to enjoy the same working conditions as you do here in the States? All so that you may have your George Foreman grills and stylish Kathie Lee Gifford clothing at the "roll 'em back" prices of WalMart? I see no difference.
T tnt5862Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by mandomama:
"My friends,

I had not intended to discuss this controversial subject at this particular time. However, I want you to know that I do not shun controversy. On the contrary, I will take a stand on any issue at any time, regardless of how fraught with controversy it might be. You have asked me how I feel about whiskey. All right, here is how I feel about whiskey.

If when you say whiskey you mean the devil's brew, the poison scourge, the bloody monster, that defiles innocence, dethrones reason, destroys the home, creates misery and poverty, yea, literally takes the bread from the mouths of little children; if you mean the evil drink that topples the Christian man and woman from the pinnacle of righteous, gracious living into the bottomless pit of degradation, and despair, and shame and helplessness, and hopelessness, then certainly I am against it.

But,

If when you say whiskey you mean the oil of conversation, the philosophic wine, the ale that is consumed when good fellows get together, that puts a song in their hearts and laughter on their lips, and the warm glow of contentment in their eyes; if you mean Christmas cheer; if you mean the stimulating drink that puts the spring in the old gentleman's step on a frosty, crispy morning; if you mean the drink which enables a man to magnify his joy, and his happiness, and to forget, if only for a little while, life's great tragedies, and heartaches, and sorrows; if you mean that drink, the sale of which pours into our treasuries untold millions of dollars, which are used to provide tender care for our little crippled children, our blind, our deaf, our dumb, our pitiful aged and infirm; to build highways and hospitals and schools, then certainly I am for it.

This is my stand. I will not retreat from it. I will not compromise."

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on it, too. This speech was given by Judge "Soggy" Sweat in 1952 to the Mississippi House of Representatives when they were debating legalizing liquor. It has been coined the "Whiskey Speech". I think that if the temptation to drink irresponsibly is too great, then don't do it. If you can "hold your liquor", so to speak, then the choice is yours. If I think it is morally wrong to shop at WalMart, do I have the right to deny everyone else in the state of Alabama the pleasure (if it is for them) of doing so? I could argue the sweat shops where WalMart purchases their goods are every bit as harmful as the drunk drivers on our roads in the USA. Do not the peoples of Asia, South America and other undeveloped countries have every right to enjoy the same working conditions as you do here in the States? All so that you may have your George Foreman grills and stylish Kathie Lee Gifford clothing at the "roll 'em back" prices of WalMart? I see no difference.


I was keeping up with you until this part >>>

If when you say whiskey you mean the oil of conversation, the philosophic wine, the ale that is consumed when good fellows get together, that puts a song in their hearts and laughter on their lips, and the warm glow of contentment in their eyes; if you mean Christmas cheer; if you mean the stimulating drink that puts the spring in the old gentleman's step on a frosty, crispy morning; if you mean the drink which enables a man to magnify his joy, and his happiness, and to forget, if only for a little while, life's great tragedies, and heartaches, and sorrows; if you mean that drink, the sale of which pours into our treasuries untold millions of dollars, which are used to provide tender care for our little crippled children, our blind, our deaf, our dumb, our pitiful aged and infirm; to build highways and hospitals and schools, then certainly I am for it.

An old gentleman with a spring in his step on a frosty ,crispy " Morning " is a wine-o if he's drinking that early .lol

Magnify his joy,happiness,and "forget " if you forget ,then you got drunk !!! lol

And as far as the Sale of it ,,it looks like your ok with it long as the money goes where you want it .

Then you said it wasnt your speech after all. Why didnt you start it that way ?

And what does Wal-mart have to do with it ? lol

Just asking . Smiler
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
Apparently you missed the whole "irony" thing. That's okay, most people just look at you funny whenever you do irony. I think it's all about choice and personal responsibility, and being reluctant to impose your personal choices on everyone else, whether it be whiskey or walmart.

Apparently, the SBC is trying...again...to force their choices on everyone around. I guess that whole "free will" thing only applies if you agree with them.

Also, I guess I don't get the whole "green as a gourd" thing. Maybe because I was raised in cities...
Top Down BeemerTop Down BeemerHall of Famer
"Green as a gourd" is a euphamism for highly inexperienced. In this case, all the candidates - Hillary and Obama for the Dems and McCain for the Reps are green. NONE has had any experience running this country. Quite frankly, I don't get why everyone keeps using that argument only about Obama. He has just as much REAL experience at being President as anyone else running. And for those who say Hillary has experience because she watched Bill - HA!!!! The only experience she would have picked up from watching him "run" this country is how to diddle your interns and get away with lying about it. Big Grin
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
A very good point Sassy. Also, technically a "wine tasting" is not neccesarily about drinking all the wine. Its about trying different wines in order to decide what to buy. It does not mean an opportunity to get drunk. Unless, of course, your goal it to get a buzz. In that case - have a designated driver.

The SBC wants to behave like our parents. I have parents - really don't need the input of the SBC.
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Top Down Beemer:
Actually, the last wine tasting I attended was at a little winery outside of Orlando, Florida. It was a lovely experience.

I can't honestly believe that a wine tasting event in Alabama is going to erupt in a knife or gun fight - unless it's held at the local honky tonk and they are offering samples of Boones Farm and M/D 20/20.


Boones Farm! OMG - been years since I thought of that vile brew.
*~*Manda*~**~*Manda*~*Hall of Famer
*sigh* I'd actually like to see a wine tasting place around here.

I've never been, and from what I've heard, the experience is really enjoyable.

It's not like people go there and guzzle down everything either. They have foods there, and give you samples (almost like what we used to have in grocery stores- just with good Wine!).

I can't tell you what kind of wine I would like in a store. Why? Because I'm not going to go out and waste money on a bottle, when I'm not sure if I'd like it. lol.. That's where a Winery would definitely come in handy. Big Grin

I guess, many around here like their wine from a box? I don't know- but I wish that the church's around here would at very least step into the 21st century. Smiler


When I was in Canada, I tried a really, really good white wine. Can't remember the name, and it was locally brewed there in Canada. Frowner Thanks for reminding me- *goes googling now* xD

~Amanda
Top Down BeemerTop Down BeemerHall of Famer
Manda - do you like a sweeter wine instead of dry? If so, there is a wine you MUST try. We ordered a case of it online, received it Monday, and have already gone through 3 bottles in 3 days. It's a 2005 white shiraz from southern Australia. It's called Thirsty Lizard White Shiraz. It is a little darker than a Rose' wine but goes down so smoothly. Because it's not a true red, you can serve it either chilled or room temp. It's great with different foods or just for sipping by itself. Try Googling it. Unfortunately, I know that there are restrictions for shipping wine to Alabama. We investigated that as we thought we might relocate back to the state and found that we would have to discontinue our Wine of the Month Club membership because they can't ship to good ole Alabama. Total bummer!!!
T tnt5862Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by Top Down Beemer:
Manda - do you like a sweeter wine instead of dry? If so, there is a wine you MUST try. We ordered a case of it online, received it Monday, and have already gone through 3 bottles in 3 days. It's a 2005 white shiraz from southern Australia. It's called Thirsty Lizard White Shiraz. It is a little darker than a Rose' wine but goes down so smoothly. Because it's not a true red, you can serve it either chilled or room temp. It's great with different foods or just for sipping by itself. Try Googling it. Unfortunately, I know that there are restrictions for shipping wine to Alabama. We investigated that as we thought we might relocate back to the state and found that we would have to discontinue our Wine of the Month Club membership because they can't ship to good ole Alabama. Total bummer!!!


You mean to tell me the SBC has got the state lines boarded up ? lol Thats funny . Poor Alabama, she aint never gonna get to shine .
Sassy KimsSassy KimsOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
A very good point Sassy. Also, technically a "wine tasting" is not neccesarily about drinking all the wine. Its about trying different wines in order to decide what to buy. It does not mean an opportunity to get drunk. Unless, of course, your goal it to get a buzz. In that case - have a designated driver.

The SBC wants to behave like our parents. I have parents - really don't need the input of the SBC.


Don't have a heart attack, but I agree with you. There are much better ways to get drunk than driving to six different cities to drink a single six ounce glass of wine at seven different wineries.

This is totally intolerance on the part of organized religion.
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