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Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:
 
 
Shockingly, I kinda agree with Jimi. People who fly the confederate flag in 2011 are usually rednecks, racist, or both. I fully supports someone's right as an American to fly that flag but don't sit here and act like it has some kind of deep historical meaning to you because your great-great-great-grandpappy fought for the South.

My great-great-grandpappy fought for the South. Although he was misguided to do so, I understand why he did it. In retrospect, he was wrong, and his side lost. There are many ways to honor him that do not offend millions of Americans. dogsoldier either doesn't understand that or doesn't care. I suspect that the second is true for him.

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
You cannot deminish this by bringing up "historical" uses that were not offensive. The fact is that your flag represents treason and the enemy of your country and is offensive to millions of patriotic Americans.

 

You have your history wrong...

 

I agree with you that the Confederate flag (pardon the pun) is a lost cause.  Because of politically correct education from a system that teaches "nationalism" as opposed to federalism and of course those that flew the flag during the civil rights era, the actual historcial significance of the Confederate flag is long gone.  Rightly or wrongly, people do see it as American verison the swastika.

 

The flag is offensive to some because of the modern view in relation to civil rights.

 

If you are offended by its "historical" significance because you think it "represents treason and the enemy of your country"...then that's your problem, because that view is historically ignorant.

Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:

People who fly the Confederate flag in 2011 are usually rednecks, racist, or both.

The qualifier in your broad statement is 'usually'. I am one of the 'exceptions'. I am neither a redneck or a racist. I invite ANYone to PROVE, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I am either. To date, jimbo  has failed to prove anything about me other than how little he actually knows.

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
As Isaid before, dog soldier has proven what he is, beyond reasonable doubt, many times. It also looks like he has some comrades, on of who disgraces one of our greater Presidents with his ignorance of American history. Mr. Jefferson would not approve, no matter what his wanna-be says.

 

"...ignorance of American history..."

 

I think it's pretty clear where the ignorance lies...

 

In American history there has been no greater difference of visions of what this country is than that between Thomas Jefferson’s voluntary republic, founded on the natural right of peaceful secession...and Abraham Lincoln’s permanent empire founded on the violent and bloody denial of that same right.

 

Jefferson clearly stated that whenever it becomes "necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them…".  It is of course the people's right "to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

 

If that natural right existed before the Revolution, it existed afterward, and it exists today.

 

In Lincoln's first in inaugural address he out right rejects Jefferson's (and the bulk of the people's) notion that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.  Instead Lincoln was completely at odds with the founding generation and the framers of the Constitution, despite the clear wording of the 10th Amendment when he said:

 

"no State upon its own mere motion can lawfully get out of the Union; resolves and ordinances to that effect are legally void…"

 

So according to Lincoln "resolves and ordinances" like the Declaration are void...

 

Jefferson wrote the "ordinance" of secession (The Declaration) from the British Empire.  Do the right of peaceful secession end there?  Well, contrast Jefferson's first inaugural to Lincoln's.  Jefferson said:

 

"If there be any among us who wish to dissolve the Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed, as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."

 

No serious student of history or politics could believe that Jefferson and Lincoln held similar visions for America. Or that Jefferson would have condoned the violent subduing of a single sovereign state...let alone 11 of them.





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