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I have "met" some wonderful Christians and some pretty intelligent questioners on this board. I believe the reason we congregate here is twofold. We are here to share the joy of God's love with other like-minded people, and we are here to show by example, what He can do in a person's life.

I'm pretty sure we are not here to argue the fine points of doctrine, nor even of scripture. The Bill Grays of the world would like to get Christians all stirred up, see them arguing, and cause division in our ranks. He is NOT here to share God's word, nor His love.

When we get to arguing, we are like the priests and scribes in the days when Jesus walked the earth. We are trying to prove our point so avidly that we lose sight of Him. Our intellects and our egos get in the way.

I would like to ask you all a serious question, and while I ask Bill Gray NOT to participate in this discussion, I doubt he will comply. Therefore, I ask all of you who respond to this post to ignore anything he says in this thread so that no one is distracted by his contentiousness.

So - here's the question. How do YOU go about sharing God's love with other people without hitting them over the head with it? How do you show people His joy without coming on so strong that people are put off by you?

I'll go first. I own a small business. When people come in to my business we get to talking. I am a bit of a social creature. I mention how much I love the area and how glad I am that I moved here. People invariably ask how that came about. I tell them it was God. I asked him to show me my life's work, then I got out of His way so He could do something about it. They get the message, see the proof of my hapiness, and I have shown by example what God can do if we only ask Him. I never tell them that they should try it. As a matter of fact, I never mention THEM at all. I only talk about MY life. They can take that information and choose to do whatever they want to do with it.

I believe that it is by example, not by words, that we can show people the light of the Lord.

Now it is your turn. Let me know how YOU share His Word. Thanks.

Co-winner of the "Likable Liberal" award who asks, "Can't we all get along?"

1 Corinthians 1:18-24 (CEV)
18 The message about the cross doesn't make any sense to lost people. But for those of us who are being saved, it is God's power at work.

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Hmmm.....I guess what first comes to mind for me is my kids.
I always strive to be a good example as I teach them about Jesus. They are young- and as questions like "Why are you my mom?" (lol) and I love to be able to explain to them how they are a "on loan" from God. That they belong to Him, and that He has Blessed me to have the joy of caring for them.
I strive to be a gentle and patient Christian mother. I agree with you ONO, that it is all about the example we leave for others.
Like I think St. Francis said: (I think it was Francis- someone correct me if I'm wrong):

Preach the Gospel at all times: If necessary, use words.
quote:
Preach the Gospel at all times: If necessary, use words.


A keeper!

Really, that's jsut profound. If we all woudl quit yammering and start exhibiting, this would would be a much better place.

Stop condemning homosexuals for who they are. Just lead by example. Stop protesting abortion clinics and start adopting babies. Stop fighting against the Mosque being built in your city and pick up a shovel. Stop beating people over the head with the Bible and start being a friend.

Actions speak so much louder than words Again, thanks, Veep. Them's good words!
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
So - here's the question. How do YOU go about sharing God's love with other people without hitting them over the head with it? How do you show people His joy without coming on so strong that people are put off by you?


It's always different. Sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's hard.

We see someone and we connect, sometimes for a moment and sometimes for a lifetime. It could be sharing in grief, sharing in joy, mutual understanding of a situation or circumstance, meeting a need, looking when most look away, visiting, listening, just too many ways to mention.

Sometimes it's natural for me to love a person and other times it is not, usually because they have done something that would make me walk away. It is in those times that I am certain it is all God. I'm experiencing or feeling his love for that person. He places his love for that person in my heart & loves them through me. It leaves me in awe every time.
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Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Preach the Gospel at all times: If necessary, use words.


A keeper!

Really, that's jsut profound. If we all woudl quit yammering and start exhibiting, this would would be a much better place.

Stop condemning homosexuals for who they are. Just lead by example. Stop protesting abortion clinics and start adopting babies. Stop fighting against the Mosque being built in your city and pick up a shovel. Stop beating people over the head with the Bible and start being a friend.

Actions speak so much louder than words Again, thanks, Veep. Them's good words!
I agree!!!!
Hi all,

I am reminded of the story of the man who lived alone, on a fixed income, and his worn clothing showed it. Wanting to worship the Lord, he found the closest church, which happened to be in a nearby, rather affluent neighborhood. Sunday morning the man, dressed in his well worn, but, best clothes -- walked into the church. As he walked up the aisle looking for a seat; all eyes were on him -- with a rather distasteful stare.

After service, several of the members approached the pastor and complained about the ragged looking man who had just come into "their" church.

The pastor walks over, introduces himself to the man -- and, tried to discreetly advise the man that he is most welcome in their church -- but, next Sunday, try to dress a little more appropriately. The man explained that he was on a fixed income and stopped by the church because it was on the way to his part-time job. Pastor shook his hand and told him to pray about his appearance in their church.

Next Sunday, the man appears wearing the same old, worn clothing. After church, the pastor approached the man again and told him, "Sir, didn't I suggest that you pray about coming to our church in your old clothes? Yet, you still come dressed like that?"

The man looked the pastor in the eye and told him, "Pastor, I did pray and ask Jesus what I should wear in your church."

"Well," asked the pastor.

The man explained that Jesus had told him, "I don't know. I have never been invited into that church either."

Enjoy.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Barefootlady, I remember what it was like before I was saved. The Christians I knew used to warn me I would go to hell, they used to say "Praise the Lord" every few minutes, even if the topic was the sale price of eggs this week, they badgered me about going to church. They were "in my face" all the time, until I decided to seek out new friends. Nothing any of them said brought me closer to the Lord. Just the opposite in fact. I felt that they didn't care about ME, only Jesus.

They DID care about Jesus more than they cared about me, and they were right to do so, but at that time I didn't know that. I often wonder if they had approached the whole thing with an example fueled "witnessing", rather than a word fueled one, maybe I would have come to know the Lord sooner.
I guess I'm here to be a nudge.

I have affected people I had no idea about.
There is a rental house near me. Many families have come and gone. Hubby and I have always tried to nice. Several times I have had the kids of those families stop me and tell me how much they appreciated us being nearby. One kid was doing poor in school and she would come here and we helped her do her homework. Another child came here for snacks after school because their parent worked all day. I even had one drive up to our house to shake my husband's hand after he had gotten married. He told him that we helped him decide to finish school.

It was a humbling moment. So I guess God can work through a New Age/Christian/Wiccan. Smiler
quote:
Stop condemning homosexuals for who they are. Just lead by example. Stop protesting abortion clinics and start adopting babies. Stop fighting against the Mosque being built in your city and pick up a shovel. Stop beating people over the head with the Bible and start being a friend.


Them there's some good words too, SK.
B50, that speaks volumes about you. Incredible how we can affect people without knowing it.
Someone once told me this: If you pass a stranger on the street? a smile could save his life! You never know where people are, emotionally, spiritually or psychologically. A simple smile, or kind gesture could give someone a glimmer of hope.
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Originally posted by b50m:
It was a humbling moment. So I guess God can work through a New Age/Christian/Wiccan.

Hi B50,

Not that I want to burst your bubble -- but, there is NO WAY a person can be New Age and Wiccan -- and be a Christian believer.

The two are totally polar opposites.

If you think you can wear both coats -- you are only fooling yourself.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill, I think she can believe whatever and however she wants. You do. At least she doesn't cram her beliefs down the throat of everyone she has a conversation with. You do. If she is content with her relationship with her God we should be happy for her,not ridicule and belittle her version of God because you think your God can beat up her God. But, for you, that is a pretty radical way to think isn't it?
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Originally posted by leo:
Bill, I think she can believe whatever and however she wants. You do. At least she doesn't cram her beliefs down the throat of everyone she has a conversation with. You do. If she is content with her relationship with her God we should be happy for her, not ridicule and belittle her version of God because you think your God can beat up her God. But, for you, that is a pretty radical way to think isn't it?

Hi Leo,

If I am not wrong, you have told us recently that you do not believe in God. Yet, you are an expert on people believing in God. Okay.

You say, "If she is content with her relationship with her God. . ."

Leo, if she is a New Ager; if she is a Wiccan -- she has no relationship with God; at least, not with the God of the Bible.

She may have a relationship with New Age gods and/or Wiccan gods of nature -- but, those are NOT the God of the Bible.

But, of course, you not believing in God -- will be happy to jump on her bandwagon and encourage her or anyone else to follow your gods of atheism, agnosticism, secularism -- or whatever gods you follow.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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I heard someone say once that we may be the only Bible a person ever reads. Made an impact on me. A smile is one way I always try to show the love of God. Sometimes it's a meal for someone in need. Sometimes it's a kind word when someone is having a terrible time. Sometimes it's clothes or household articles for someone whose house has burned. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture. Helping to meet physical needs helps to show the love that God has shown me. On the occassion that a person is surprised that I have shown some act of kindness and asked why I did it I try to give God the credit without beating them over the head but I would be wrong to take any credit myself. Left to myself I would be just as self-centered as the next person and not take the time to help. I have been shown great love by my Lord and try to show love to others. Can't say that I do it perfectly but I try for it to be the pattern of my life.
quote:
Left to myself I would be just as self-centered as the next person and not take the time to help


I totally agree with this...we are selfish beings, with our own needs- to put others first does go "against the grain" and requires humility and grace. Really, without the example of Jesus, we would all be "out for ourselves".
I enjoyed your post.
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Deeeeep breaths, b50m, deep breaths...perhaps a shot of tequila to go with that.


LOL! B50, I will bring the salt and lemon, Joy, can you bring the booze?. We're gonna need it...
and Bill- perhaps now you see the reason you were asked to stay out of this conversation? We were having a nice conversation. Thanks for wrecking it. Frowner
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Originally posted by vplee123:
LOL! B50, I will bring the salt and lemon, Joy, can you bring the booze?. We're gonna need it ... and Bill - perhaps now you see the reason you were asked to stay out of this conversation? We were having a nice conversation. Thanks for wrecking it.

Hi VP,

Gee, I did not realize that bringing thoughts of God into a conversation would ruin it. I guess that is my mistake; for, you see, I have grown accustomed, over the years, to conversations with Christian believers -- and, I guess I have just forgotten how to act when in the presence of a group of non-believers. Please forgive the intrusion of God into your thoughts.

God bless (oh, sorry, I know I wasn't supposed to mention him!)

Well, have a wonderful, blessed day anyway!

Bill

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Originally posted by thenagel:
it's ok tho... God can work though a wiccan, a new ager, and christian, a buddhist, or whom ever He feels the needs to work through at the moment.

Hi Nagel,

So, in your church every world religion is welcome to come in and worship their god or gods inside your church? That is interesting.

Remind us what church you attend -- the Universalist Unitarian? Or the Wiccan? Or is it the New Age Urantia Book Psychic church?

Good luck! You will need that and much more!

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Shoals Resident:
I heard someone say once that we may be the only Bible a person ever reads. Made an impact on me. A smile is one way I always try to show the love of God. Sometimes it's a meal for someone in need. Sometimes it's a kind word when someone is having a terrible time. Sometimes it's clothes or household articles for someone whose house has burned.

I could go on and on but I think you get the picture. Helping to meet physical needs helps to show the love that God has shown me. On the occasion that a person is surprised that I have shown some act of kindness and asked why I did it I try to give God the credit without beating them over the head but I would be wrong to take any credit myself. Left to myself I would be just as self-centered as the next person and not take the time to help. I have been shown great love by my Lord and try to show love to others. Can't say that I do it perfectly but I try for it to be the pattern of my life.

Hi Shoals,

You are so right! Especially about the smile. I have always believed, "Give away a smile -- and it will come back to you!"

I have always attributed my attitude to my being raised in the South; something about being a Southerner and manners -- just seem to go together. To this day, I will always say, "Yes, ma'am" - "No, sir" even to people much younger than me -- and still believe in opening doors for ladies. Over the years, I have thought about it -- and do not remember this ever being taught in our schools or anywhere else. This is why I have always simply attributed it to our Southern DNA.

A few years ago, we had an Assistant Manager at the apartment complex where I live. She was a young lady from the South -- and always called me Mr. Gray. I kept asking her to call me Bill -- but, try as she would -- she could just not do it. It's that Southern DNA in action.

In my fifty year career in the computer industry, I traveled a lot. So, I have been in many major city in America and in other countries. It has always been my habit to walk in the evenings. That is my favorite pastime -- have dinner, then go for a long walk. No matter what city I am in, I will walk. And, when I walk, when I pass others -- I always smile and speak, wishing them a good evening. My friend who grew up in Chicago told me, "In Chicago, we never speak to anyone on the streets." And, I told him, "How sad."

In all the years, I have only twice had a negative response. About ten years ago, I was walking in a nearby city and walked past three young people standing in a driveway. One young boy, obviously trying to impress the girl with them, called out a smart remark to me. The girl's response to him was, "Shut up, stupid!" So much for his making an impression.

And, about eight years ago, my wife and I were walking on a major street in our town. As we walked, we were talking about how our society has taken God out of our schools and replaced His positive moral values with moral relativism, i.e., nothing is wrong if it feels right to you. This same moral relativism is why teachers in our public schools cannot teach that stealing, lying, cheating, casual sex, etc., are wrong. Under the rules of moral relativism -- the kids are supposed to be allowed to decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong. Might as well let them also teach themselves math, English, history, etc.

Anyway, as we were walking and talking, three young people, two boys and a girl, passed us. As I always do, I said, "Hello, how are you tonight?" And, after they had passed, one of the young boys turned around and shouted, "Better than you, old man. Better than you!"

I turned to my wife and told her, "See, that is exactly what we were just talking about. Kids in public schools today are not allowed to be taught positive moral values -- they set they own moral values -- and this is the result. This -- and drive-by shootings."

But, back to your thought on giving away a smile. Except for those two incidences -- for over fifty years I have been giving away smiles -- and always rewarded with larger ones in return. Thank you for reminding us.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill, are you calling me a non-believer now? wow.
you've got some heck of a lot of nerve.
You know- we were discussing how we eminate Christianity in our lives.
You were politely asked to refrain from posting, because, as proven, you bring forth animosity, and ruin pleasant conversations.
It's not God that ruins anything- it's just your mean-ness.
Why can't you respect the wishes of someone that wanted to have a Bill-free conversation? '
Your ego won't allow it. You just can't help yourself. I really feel sorry for you.
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Originally posted by vplee123:
You were politely asked to refrain from posting, because, as proven, you bring forth animosity, and ruin pleasant conversations.
Why can't you respect the wishes of someone that wanted to have a Bill-free conversation?.

Hi VP,

So, this is a Private Forum just for you and your sewing circle? That's interesting! I was sure it is a public forum. But, please correct me if I am wrong.

I guess I never really understood that this is YOUR private playground.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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No- it wasn't me who made that request of you. It was O'No, who started the thread, and respectfully asked that you stay out of this one.


"I have always attributed my attitude to my being raised in the South; something about being a Southerner and manners -- just seem to go together."

Try using those fine southern manners.
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
No- it wasn't me who made that request of you. It was O'No, who started the thread, and respectfully asked that you stay out of this one.

"I have always attributed my attitude to my being raised in the South; something about being a Southerner and manners -- just seem to go together."

Try using those fine southern manners.

Hi VP,

Have you ever heard the old saying, "It takes two to tango?"

Care to dance?

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
quote:
Deeeeep breaths, b50m, deep breaths...perhaps a shot of tequila to go with that.


LOL! B50, I will bring the salt and lemon, Joy, can you bring the booze?. We're gonna need it...
and Bill- perhaps now you see the reason you were asked to stay out of this conversation? We were having a nice conversation. Thanks for wrecking it. Frowner


Thanks Joy and VP and Leo and nagel. I'm good.

I knew Bill would jump on that like a chicken on a June bug. (Don't you love corny southern sayings?)

Riddle me this Bill,
If an atheist/pagan/New Age/ witch/agnostic (pick what you like best) makes you re-read your Bible and study harder to better understand it, is it possible that person is also being used as a tool by God to make you a better person?


And if by having dialogue with that person, doesn't that mean that they may also see a different way of looking at religion and may decide to follow Jesus?

Everyday is a new chance to see things differently Bill.

BTW, wiccan is not evil.
I truly do believe that Bill, wittingly or unwittingly IS working for the other side. The way he slams people who he KNOWS are believers, the way he insults people and tries to denigrate them. We all KNOW that is not Christian behavior! Bill pushes people AWAY from Christ by his actions and his venomous words.

I think the very worst thing, the most dangerous thing Bill does is try to make Christians complacent about their salvation. He chooses little bits and pieces of scripture to try to push his idea of "once saved, always saved". He refuses to acknowledge all of the many verses that say otherwise. Most of us here KNOW that we must STAY on the path Jesus has set us upon, try to do his will in all things.

Bill would rather have you believe that once you have accepted Christ as your savior, it's OK to go back to your adultorous, lying, sinful ways. "It's OK! Once saved, always saved!"

Don't listen to him! He's drumming up business for the other side, whether he knows it or not. Please let us, just in this thread, ignore him, carry on with our conversation, and if anyone wants to rebut anything he says here, there are plenty of other threads where he spreads his venom and lies. Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
I truly do believe that Bill, wittingly or unwittingly IS working for the other side.


i said something like this a while back.

it really does make sense, tho, doesn't it?

of course the person trying to lead you off the path isn't going to say ' hey, ya'll, come on and join satan, we rock and roll down here"

he's going be the one extoling the bible most venomously, threatening hellfire if you don't listento him, all the while twisting the meaning to make sure his followers miss salvation by --> <--- this much.

i do believe it's unwitting, tho.. if satan were to pick someone to play an active role in such a scheme, i don't think it's be someone as easily confused and mindlessly senile as Bill.
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I think the very worst thing, the most dangerous thing Bill does is try to make Christians complacent about their salvation.


I could not agree more.

Do I think he's working for the other side- yes, but unwittingly.
He is turning people off Christianity, and lying about the Gospels. He has been caught in so many lies!
Unfortunately, he will continue to do this as long as he has an audience.
You know, interesting thing that has had me thinking- he was asked to stay out of this conversation- (of course he could not). But he put up the story about "Jesus not being invited in either".
Did that strike anyone as extremely odd? Is he comparing himself to Jesus?
It struck a very "WOA!" chord with me......
HAHAHA!
BCBG, You know, you may not believe in God right now, and that's your perogative. I hope someday you might- but I love ya anyway.
But you know what?
You are not evil- you're not on "the other side".
As much as we disagree on some things, I think you are good peeps. We wouldn't sick "him" on you eihter. Wink
That's right BJBG, you don't wish evil on any of us, you don't insult us, and I've never seen you post stupid cartoons(!) It is MUCH easier and more pleasant talking to a non-believer than it is talking to someone who is working toward the downfall of us all. As far as I'm concerned, you are an intelligent and interesting person, and I'm glad to know you. Bill, on the other hand is, well, you know what he is.
How Christian is it to be sooooo viscious toward Bill? You accuse him of the very thing that you are doing. Can you not agree to disagree and be civil toward one another? If I were not a Christian and were reading these posts I don't think I would want any part of Christianity if this were the example I was seeing. If you disagree with your boss (or others) are you this hateful when you voice your disagreement? I'm not asking for you to agree but there needs to be a higher ground when you exchange posts with Bill or anyone else.

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