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Contract negotiatons are a joke. The owners of Wise Alloys are about to contract Maintence, Electrical, Oilers, Crane operators, etc. , out to a non- union company. Employees now have been told they can put in applications with everyone else to be considered for the jobs they are already doing. And then, they are only hiring about half of the number of people that are currently employed. The owners and Salary personel of Wise Alloys have taken a thriving business from the Shoals that many of our parents, grandparents, helped to make this
community profitable, and have run it in the ground. It is simply that old saying "Money is the root of all EVIL." They are greedy. They have no compassion or respect for their employees. Its okay to ask a whole department to stay over so salary can make their quota, yet they can't tell us if we will have a job tommorow..........
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quote:
Originally posted by justthinking:
Contract negotiatons are a joke. The owners of Wise Alloys are about to contract Maintence, Electrical, Oilers, Crane operators, etc. , out to a non- union company. Employees now have been told they can put in applications with everyone else to be considered for the jobs they are already doing. And then, they are only hiring about half of the number of people that are currently employed. The owners and Salary personel of Wise Alloys have taken a thriving business from the Shoals that many of our parents, grandparents, helped to make this
community profitable, and have run it in the ground. It is simply that old saying "Money is the root of all EVIL." They are greedy. They have no compassion or respect for their employees. Its okay to ask a whole department to stay over so salary can make their quota, yet they can't tell us if we will have a job tommorow..........



I say more power to The owners of Wise Alloys!! Folks in the south hate unions,Republicans hate unions,Reagan took the power from the unions,and most workers at wise voted the conservatives in that hate unions. I don't feel sorry for folks that vote for conservatives then cry about losing their job later. Join the club of the conservative world! Unions are a thing of the pass and no longer has the power to fight as they once did. Reagan put the end to unions.

People from the conservative right have always planted the seeds of propaganda that unions are bad. And the people fall for the propaganda that unions make prices higher. But they are higher anyway, union or non-union. The thing about having unions is that you had better products. Ford and Chevrolet made better cars. You can't say that now.
The unions were an in-between for employer and employee, making sure both sides got fair treatment. For example, your supervisor could not fire you and replace you with a member of his family. You don't have that protection. If a supervisor decides that he wants to replace you with a family member, he may do so. Unions always made sure that the corporations would shop around for the best benefits to provide for their employees, like health insurance at the lowest cost. But for some reason, the people do not want to cheat the rich or take advantage of big corporations, so they are willing to work for low wages, no benefits, and could care less how they are treated on the job as long as they've got a job. Again, welcome to corporate America.
Last edited by Jan55
I think that place was already going down hill before they sold it to Wise. Reynolds seen the future and dumped it on Wise before they started having to do the same thing that Wise is doing now.

As far as outsourcing jobs? well if the Union wont work with the management in the negotiations then what choice does a company have but to cut cost elsewhere. They have to stay competitive in the market place or nobody will have a job or company.
The Labor Union Movement in America

The roots of our country's trade unions extend deep into the early history of America. Several of the Pilgrims arriving at Plymouth Rock in 1620 were working craftsmen. Captain John Smith, who led the ill-fated settlement in 1607 on Virginia's James River, pleaded with his sponsors in London to send him more craftsmen and working people.

Primitive unions, or guilds, of carpenters and cordwainers, cabinet makers and cobblers made their appearance, often temporary, in various cities along the Atlantic seaboard of colonial America. Workers played a significant role in the struggle for independence; carpenters disguised as Mohawk Indians were the "host" group at the Boston Tea Party in 1773. The Continental Congress met in Carpenters Hall in Philadelphia, and there the Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776. In "pursuit of happiness" through shorter hours and higher pay, printers were the first to go on strike, in New York in 1794; cabinet makers struck in 1796; carpenters in Philadelphia in 1797; cordwainers in 1799. In the early years of the 19th century, recorded efforts by unions to improve the workers' conditions, through either negotiation or strike action, became more frequent.

By the 1820s, various unions involved in the effort to reduce the working day from 12 to 10 hours began to show interest in the idea of federation-of joining together in pursuit of common objectives for working people.

As ineffective as these first efforts to organize may have been, they reflected the need of working people for economic and legal protection from exploiting employers. The invention of the steam engine and the growing use of water power to operate machinery were developing a trend toward a factory system not much different from that in England which produced misery and slums for decades. Starting in the 1830s and accelerating rapidly during the Civil War, the factory system accounted for an ever-growing share of American production. It also produced great wealth for a few, grinding poverty for many.

With workers recognizing the power of their employers, the number of local union organizations increased steadily during the mid-19th century. In a number of cities, unions in various trades joined together in citywide federations. The Nation Labor Union, (actually a federation- an organization of local unions) formed in 1866. The NLU eventually persuaded Congress to pass an eight hour day for Federal workers. Never very strong, it was a casualty of the sweeping economic depression of 1873.

Five years later, the Knights of Labor captured the public imagination. Formed in 1869 by Uriah Stephens and expanded rapidly under the leadership of Terrance Powdery, the Knights were an all-embracing organization committed to a cooperative society. Membership was open to all workers, whether they be skilled or unskilled, black or white, male or female. The Knights achieved a membership of nearly 750,000 during the next few years, but the skilled and unskilled workers who had joined the Knights in hope of improvement in their hours and wages found themselves fragmented by the rift between skilled and unskilled workers. Skilled workers tired of labor activity on the part of unskilled workers who were easily replaced. The Knights, an effective labor force, declined after the Haymarket Square riots. In the riot members of the Knights of Labor where accused of throwing a bomb which killed police officers. The Knights, already fragmented, where faced with enormous negative publicity, and eventually disbanded.

The American Federation of Labor was founded by Samuel Gompers in 1886. Gompers, born in 1850, came as a boy with his parents to America from the Jewish slums of London; he entered the cigar-making trade and received much of his education as a "reader" (a worker who read books, newspaper stories, poetry and magazine articles to fellow employees to help break the monotony of their work in the shop) and became a leader of his local union and of the national Cigar Makers Union.

A statement by the founders of the AFL expressed their belief in the need for more effective union organization. "The various trades have been affected by the introduction of machinery, the subdivision of labor, the use of women's and children's labor and the lack of an apprentice system-so that the skilled trades were rapidly sinking to the level of pauper labor," the AFL declared. "To protect the skilled labor of America from being reduced to beggary and to sustain the standard of American workmanship and skill, the trades unions of America have been established." Thus the AFL was a federation that organized only unions of skilled workers.

The Pullman Strike in 1894, at the Pullman plant near Chicago, the American Railroad Union (not affiliated with the AFL and led by Eugene V. Debs, a leading American socialist) struck the company's manufacturing plant and called for a boycott of the handling of Pullman's sleeping and parlor cars on the nation's railroads. Within a week, 125,000 railroad workers were engaged in a sympathy protest strike. The government swore in 3,400 special deputies; later, at the request of the railroad association, President Cleveland moved in federal troops to break the strike-despite a plea by Gov. Aitgeld of Illinois that their presence was unnecessary. Finally a sweeping federal court injunction forced an end to the sympathy strike, and many railroad workers were blacklisted. The Pullman strikers were essentially starved into submissive defeat.

The strike illustrated the increasing tendency of the government to offer moral support and military force to break strikes. The injunction, issued usually and almost automatically by compliant judges on the request of government officials or corporations, became a prime legal weapon against union organizing and action.

A better method of federal intervention occurred during a 1902 strike of anthracite coal miners, under the banner of the United Mine Workers. More than 100,000 miners in northeastern Pennsylvania called a strike on May 12, and kept the mines closed all that summer. When the mine owners refused a UMW proposal for arbitration, President Theodore Roosevelt intervened on Oct. 3, and on Oct. 16 appointed a commission of mediation and arbitration. Five days later the miners returned to their jobs, and five months later the Presidential Commission awarded them a 10 percent wage increase and shorter work days-but not the formal union recognition they had sought.

In 1911 a fire broke out at the Triangle Shirtwaist Co. on New York's lower east side. About 150 employees almost all of them young women-perished when the fire swept through the upper floors of the loft building in which they worked. Many burned to death; others jumped and died. Why so large a casualty list? The safety exits on the burning floors had been securely locked, allegedly to prevent "loss of goods." New York and the country were aroused by the tragedy. A state factory investigation committee headed by Frances Perkins (she was to become Franklin Roosevelt's secretary of labor in 1933, the first woman cabinet member in history) paved the way for many long needed reforms in industrial safety and fire prevention measures.

Another of the historic industrial conflicts prior to World War I occurred in 1912 in the textile mills of Lawrence, Mass. It was led not by an AFL union but by the radical Industrial Workers of the World-the IWW, or the Wobblies, as they were generally known -an organization in frequent verbal and physical conflict with the AFL and its affiliates. The strike in Lawrence started when the mill owners, responding to a state legislature action reducing the work week from 54 to 52, coldly and without prior notice cut the pay rates by a 31/2 percent. The move produced predictable results: a strike of 50,000 textile workers; arrests; fiery statements by the IWW leaders; police and militia attacks on peaceful meetings; and broad public support for the strikers. Some 400 children of strikers were "adopted" by sympathizers. When women strikers and their children were attacked at the railroad station by the police after authorities had decided no more youngsters could leave town, an enraged public protest finally forced the mill owners not only to restore the pay cuts but to increase the workers' wages to more realistic levels.

Congress, at the urging of the AFL, created a separate U.S. Department of Labor with a legislative mandate to protect and extend the rights of wage earners. A Children's Bureau, with a major concern to protect the victims of job exploitation, was created. The LaFollette Seaman's Act required urgently needed improvements in the working conditions on ships of the U.S. merchant marine. Of crucial importance, the Clayton Act of 1914 made explicit the legal concept that "the labor of a human being is not a commodity or article of commerce" and hence not subject to the Sherman Act provisions which had been the legal basis for injunctions against union organization. Clayton gave legalized strikes and boycotts and peaceful picketing, and dramatically limited the use of injunctions in labor disputes. Little wonder that AFL President Gompers hailed the Clayton Act as a "magna carta."

The "Roaring Twenties," nostalgically depicted in some movies and musical comedies as an era of unbounded prosperity and champagne-induced gaiety, fell a good deal short of those marks for most American working people. Throughout the decade, unemployment rose, quietly, almost anonymously. It was a time of considerable hardship for many of the unemployed, long before the days of unemployment insurance or supplementary benefits.

The post world war I depression brought wages down sharply and caused major erosion of union membership-a loss of about a million members in the years from 1920 to 1923. The difficulties were multiplied by the decision of the National Association of Manufacturers and other antiunion "open shop" groups to wipe out or seriously diminish the status of American , can unions. The fear of "Bolsheviks," often hysterical, that was nurtured by the Russian communist revolution was used gleefully by the antiunion forces. As early as 1913, President John Kirby of the NAM had decided the trade union movement was "an un-American, illegal and infamous conspiracy." As the Senate Civil Liberties Committee, headed by Sen. Robert LaFollette Jr., reported years later, such demands as "union recognition, shorter hours, higher wages, regulation of child labor and the hours and wages of women and children in industry" came to be seen-under the influence of the NAM-sponsored 'American Plan' -as aspects of the alleged communist revolution from which the anti-labor employers wanted to save the nation. Strikebreaking, blacklisting and vigilanteeism became, for a time, acceptable aspects of this new and spurious brand of patriotism. The "yellow dog contract," which workers had to sign in order to get a job, bound them never to join a union; at the same time, the corporations promoted employee representation plans or company unions-pale and generally useless imitations of the real thing.

In November 1935, John L. Lewis announced the creation of the CIO, the Committee for Industrial Organization, composed of about a dozen leaders of AFL unions, to carry on the effort for industrial unionism. Industrial Unions are unions that organize an entire industry regardless of skill. In short they where unions of unskilled workers. Lewis, born in Iowa in 1880 of Welsh immigrant parents, went to work in the coal mines and became president of the Mine Workers in 1920. An orator of remarkable virtuosity, Lewis voiced increasingly bitter attacks on his colleagues on the AFL Executive Council; his words helped speed the break. In 1936, the various CIO unions were expelled from the Federation. In 1938 the CIO held its first constitutional convention and became the Congress of Industrial Organizations.

In any event, the CIO began a remarkably successful series of organizing campaigns, and over the next few years, brought industrial unionism to large sectors of basic American industry. At the same time the unions remaining in the AFL registered even more substantial gains in membership. During World War 11, the AFL and CIO, while preserving areas of disagreement, began to find more substantial bases for working together on problems affecting all workers. In time many of the old antagonisms had died out and the old issues had been resolved. The stage was set for merger of the two labor groups. They were reunited into the AFL-CIO at a convention in New York opening on Dec. 5, 1955.

The AFL-CIO merger and its accompanying agreements brought about the virtual elimination of jurisdictional disputes between unions that had plagued the labor movement and alienated public sympathy in earlier years. The unions placed a new priority on organizing workers in areas, industries and plants where no effective system of labor representation yet existed. In many cases, it meant crossing the barriers of old thinking and tired methods to reach the employees of companies which for years had resisted unions.

For the past forty years there has been a steady decline in both union membership and influence. There are several reasons for such a decline, the first having to do with employers keeping their businesses union-free. Some were active in their opposition and even hired consultants to devise legal strategies to combat unions. Other employers put workers on the management team by appointing them to the board of directors or establishing profit-sharing plans to reward employees. The second reason for union decline is that new additions to the labor force have traditionally had little loyalty to organized labor. Because more and more women and teenagers are working and their incomes tend to be a family's second income, they have a proclivity towards accepting lower wages, thus defeating the purpose of organized labor. The third and possibly the most important reason for the decline in unions is that they are victims of their own success. Unions raised their wages substantially above the wages paid to nonunion workers. Therefore, many union-made products have become so expensive that sales were lost to less expensive foreign competitors and nonunion producers. This resulted in companies having to cut back on production, which caused some workers to lose their jobs, and hence, unions some of their members. Also, the recent shift in this country towards technology and service has made our economy less reliant in the types of industrial jobs that tended to be union strongholds. Today's worker tends to more highly educated and tends to the professional, white coller class. All of these have conspired to decrease union membership.
Yes, Unions were good and needed at one time. There are a lot of good honest hard working union workers out there. But unions are not what they once were.

Now they help keep drug heads, alcoholics, and lazy people on the job and they drive up the cost of doing business.

How many Union members and their families shop at Wal-Mart? Union members cut their own throats they don't need to blame businesses.



PBA, you are way off base in your comments about the GOP. Tell me what the Democrats have done to keep jobs in the United States and to keep unions strong. Both parties are equal in blame for down fall of the USA.
Unions have helped, in the past, but are stuck in the past. Knowledge workers are the key to keeping jobs in the future. Sending jobs overseas cost some jobs, automation cost many more.

Unions need to anticipate worker skills and ensure they have future needed skills. Either negotiate with company or develop their own training and certification programs.
My grandfather was one of the oldest ever to retire from Reynolds(Wise) @ 72. He was a union member his entire life and Only took 2 sick days in over 20 years. My uncle still works there, has for about 20 yrs. My dad is Intl Rep for the Operators, my sister is a Machinest at WISE and I am a Teamster at the Ferry. I have grown up with so much pride and confidence in unions. Unions ensure that they supply a skilled workforce. I think it is so sad that Employers here are trying to take the best jobs away from the people that live here. Through my union I am guaranteed to be treated fairly and paid an honest wage. Crane operators are no joke. Those men and women have their co-workers lives in their hands, along with thousands and millions of dollars. If that was me flagging a crane I know I would want the best trained drug free man running that crane. My dad was a crane operator for 10 yrs and on a union job your agent ensures you dont have to carry through with an unsafe job. They cant threaten to fire you for risking your life or the life of someone else. If they get away with paying old Joe 5 bucks less and no insurance - then tomorrow they will want to pay his buddy 3 bucks less than that and so on. Its pitiful. In my job as a QC inspector I can be sent to prison for falsely signing documents, underinspecting, cutting corners not to mention the responsibility of safety in a nuclear plant and the parts that will run it. I am paid according to that responsibility. That is thanks to my union representation. My union along with federal law ensures they cant threaten me into making a decision that might put someones life in danger either at the plant or in the general public. Our livelyhood depends on the safety and success of these businesses. We live in these areas, send our children to school here, buy houses. And in turn what do they do? want to get out of paying us insurance for our families, want to pay us less and less. The only decent paying jobs here are Union jobs or direct results of them. If they cut the pay of these families who will stay? Who will move? Who will buy those houses? Cars, Insurance? And eat at all of the 5000 resturaunts we have here? Colbert, TVA MSC, Browns Ferry, WISE, The Dam are all a great source of income here and its a shame that we couldnt hold onto the union at WISE. (by the way, I have not confirmed this)????
glad to see i stured up s**** just got off work I am is 13 hrs ahead of u. anbody thats anti-union the "party" wants you!!!strike over here and see whats happens!!!if u r anti-union need to join the "party"... a dr. on a cruse trip at dinner once bit""h about unions killing America and I said u belong to the biggest UNION in Americia, and wanted to know what I ment,I said , AMA!!!! gotta go find supper if its still hoppin! love then frogs!!
IT DEPENDS ON WHO IS KICKING THE CAN as to which way the can flys...both sides non-union and union supporters have good points to debate...
The fact is NAFTA...and now the North American Union Treaty has changed the economics of the world completely..no longer can companies compete with other companies who are sending the same product back into america..Those companies operate without the constraint costs of :worksman comp, health insurance, pensions, vacations,sick days,higher wages, etc...
Now! The question is who is buying the products that can be bought cheaper than american made... The answer is simple non-union and union people alike..
Thoughts-words-deeds are tools that create our reality...the reality of today is our population demands those products made else where at a lower price... If the American Company can not be competitive with his competitors...then the doors will close...
The Question is: Which does the American worker want...a full loaf that will soon no longer exist because of the doors closing...or 1/2 loaf where there is something on the table...
Personally, I think Unions have done a wonderful job in getting the american worker out of the sweat shops...unfortunately they got to powerful and went beyond reason in making a company profitable...they quit working as a team with the management, and somewhere along the way it became two categories them and us...
Yes! There are still a lot of sweat shops that exist. I don't have to name them, you or a family member probably works in some...but this up to the workers who work there to band together and form an employee negotiation team to talk over issues with management.
The problem is a lot of employees are afraid of losing their job by being assertive in their list..why? Low education, their age, limited technical skills, health reasons, etc... the list goes on..and these are valid reasons...

To me, Wise Management is doing what they have to do to keep their company competitive...in order to lower price...you have to lower expenses...part of reduction of expenses is labor cost...you either do in by reducing personnel, wages, benefit cost, and a lot of times all just listed...
Get adjusted...the worst is yet to come...
quote:
Originally posted by justthinking:
Contract negotiatons are a joke. The owners of Wise Alloys are about to contract Maintence, Electrical, Oilers, Crane operators, etc. , out to a non- union company.


It's about darn time!

The union has had a stranglehold on industry and has stifled growth in the Shoals for far too long. I sure hope Wise continues the practice.
quote:
Originally posted by Confederate Pride:
Yes, Unions were good and needed at one time. There are a lot of good honest hard working union workers out there. But unions are not what they once were.

Now they help keep drug heads, alcoholics, and lazy people on the job and they drive up the cost of doing business.

How many Union members and their families shop at Wal-Mart? Union members cut their own throats they don't need to blame businesses.



PBA, you are way off base in your comments about the GOP. Tell me what the Democrats have done to keep jobs in the United States and to keep unions strong. Both parties are equal in blame for down fall of the USA.



Take a look around at Corporate America, where Employers take harsh advantage of workers, and SEE that Unions are needed more now than ever before.

Our forefathers who bled and died to make life easier for the American worker did it for NOTHING, not with the brain washing that has slowly happened over the last 35 years.
quote:
Originally posted by Confederate Pride:
Yes, Unions were good and needed at one time. There are a lot of good honest hard working union workers out there. But unions are not what they once were.

Now they help keep drug heads, alcoholics, and lazy people on the job and they drive up the cost of doing business.

How many Union members and their families shop at Wal-Mart? Union members cut their own throats they don't need to blame businesses.



PBA, you are way off base in your comments about the GOP. Tell me what the Democrats have done to keep jobs in the United States and to keep unions strong. Both parties are equal in blame for down fall of the USA.



Confederate Pride, I thought you knew Republicans have always been against the unions. Democrats? What democrats? I did not know we had a democrat party anymore and if we do the democrats have join ranks with the republicans.
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by Confederate Pride:
Yes, Unions were good and needed at one time. There are a lot of good honest hard working union workers out there. But unions are not what they once were.

Now they help keep drug heads, alcoholics, and lazy people on the job and they drive up the cost of doing business.

How many Union members and their families shop at Wal-Mart? Union members cut their own throats they don't need to blame businesses.



PBA, you are way off base in your comments about the GOP. Tell me what the Democrats have done to keep jobs in the United States and to keep unions strong. Both parties are equal in blame for down fall of the USA.



Take a look around at Corporate America, where Employers take harsh advantage of workers, and SEE that Unions are needed more now than ever before.

Our forefathers who bled and died to make life easier for the American worker did it for NOTHING, not with the brain washing that has slowly happened over the last 35 years.


At 95% employment it is really hard to take advantage of your employees. There are plenty of jobs out there.
well it sat. morning getting ready for work. being an ex-pat I only have to work 6 days a week.(but well paid)a plant has an expected "lifetime" and alloys is over 50 years old. right now i'm working on reinstalling 2 alum mills that came from the states.plastic containers put reynolds out of buis. du REYNOLDS does not exist anymore cause the family wanted to cash out!and get out of EPA clean-up.one day they will rip up those mill stands and sell them to China or India where they have "slave" labor. the new steel plant in south ala. will have new tech. and be with German mills (SMS or VAI) and they will be built UNION because the Germans are the most UNION country in the world.! Wal-mart left Germany because they were going to have to unionise.you get what you pay for.look at the non-union water treatment plant at Barton. how long and how much money it cost to fix it! they have union contractors in the Shoals that would have done it right the first time.
I am a union worker. I also have family members on both sides of this fence. But anyone who thinks that doing a way with the unions has obviously never worked in the type of work we do, and do not realize the need for the union. As for the comments about unions keeping alcoholics, drug addicts and lazy people people working- I will have you know that this is the job I do to take care of my children. I am not lazy. I am not an alcohlic nor do I do drugs. I was raised by a father who was a union worker. My grandfathers were both union workers. My uncle, my brother-in-laws, my friends, all union workers. We are good people trying to stand up for our rights. We do not want what we have not earned. Maybe you want to work 20 hours a day for straight pay and be told when you will and wont stay over on a job. Maybe you want to have people who are not qualified to come in and do jobs that could be potentially dangerous to yourself and others. Maybe you want to lose the health insurance for you and your children. I don't. This is why I support my union. When Wise Alloys fails and the business is no longer here, many non-union people will see jsut how much this company meant to our economic community as well. Maybe then you will see that the unions aren't such a bad thing when your kids are going to work at the chicken plant with the mexicans (if they are lucky).
Justthinking,

You bring up an interesting point. Unions favor amnesty for illegal aliens and the importation of more of them. why?

A large pool of workers drives down wages for everyone. Illegal aliens can nail boards, hang drywall, drive trucks, and cook in kitchens as well as anyone. But they will do it for wages Americans will not accept. I think the unions are working to their own disadvantage by encouraging them to be here.

An interesting note, the Teamsters Union is asking Americans to protest Mexican trucks on American roads. BUT, the Teamsters are, according to their own website, in solidarity with illegal aliens here.

http://www.teamster.org/06news/hn_060419_2.asp

Is this confusion or hypocrisy?

DF
quote:
Originally posted by pipepat:
well it sat. morning getting ready for work. being an ex-pat I only have to work 6 days a week.(but well paid)a plant has an expected "lifetime" and alloys is over 50 years old. right now i'm working on reinstalling 2 alum mills that came from the states.plastic containers put reynolds out of buis. du REYNOLDS does not exist anymore cause the family wanted to cash out!and get out of EPA clean-up.one day they will rip up those mill stands and sell them to China or India where they have "slave" labor. the new steel plant in south ala. will have new tech. and be with German mills (SMS or VAI) and they will be built UNION because the Germans are the most UNION country in the world.! Wal-mart left Germany because they were going to have to unionise.you get what you pay for.look at the non-union water treatment plant at Barton. how long and how much money it cost to fix it! they have union contractors in the Shoals that would have done it right the first time.



You make a good point! Union products are better made and last longer. union products are safer!
Since the demise of unions people have been working longer and harder just to keep up. Safety regulations are lax and worker injuries are up. Productivity is up, profits are up, CEO salaries are up and the Stocks are up. Yet the workers share gets smaller.

We don't have 95% full employment. Even though they claim that unemployment is only 5% employment is at around 65%. The unemployment figures come from who is collecting benefits. When your benefits run out your no longer counted, whether you have a job or not. That also doesn't take into account those who are underemployed, forced to take low wages because they can't find decent wages.

Unions were split for a while over immigrants but now have realized unionized immigrants help us all. They oppose the truck drivers from Mexico because they have lower standards and requirements for truck drivers in Mexico and they are a part of NAFTA and receive lower wages. They are here to break the unions.

American workers need to unionize and create international unions with workers around the world. Corporate Globalization is driving wages down by taking good paying jobs to 3rd world countries and creating sweatshops. The people cannot live in these wages and are forced to immigrate. It's happening world wide. Corporations are forcing workers to compete with each other for who will work for the least, and countries to have the least safety and environmental regulations. It has been coined as a "race to the bottom."
quote:
Originally posted by justthinking:
I am a union worker. I also have family members on both sides of this fence. But anyone who thinks that doing a way with the unions has obviously never worked in the type of work we do, and do not realize the need for the union. As for the comments about unions keeping alcoholics, drug addicts and lazy people people working- I will have you know that this is the job I do to take care of my children. I am not lazy. I am not an alcohlic nor do I do drugs. I was raised by a father who was a union worker. My grandfathers were both union workers. My uncle, my brother-in-laws, my friends, all union workers. We are good people trying to stand up for our rights. We do not want what we have not earned. Maybe you want to work 20 hours a day for straight pay and be told when you will and wont stay over on a job. Maybe you want to have people who are not qualified to come in and do jobs that could be potentially dangerous to yourself and others. Maybe you want to lose the health insurance for you and your children. I don't. This is why I support my union. When Wise Alloys fails and the business is no longer here, many non-union people will see jsut how much this company meant to our economic community as well. Maybe then you will see that the unions aren't such a bad thing when your kids are going to work at the chicken plant with the mexicans (if they are lucky).


I work in a chicken plant that is unionized, so what does that say? And just like all the things mentioned previously about insurance, providing for my family, paying for my college education, this has all come from this chicken plant job!
quote:
Originally posted by Do the Right Thing:
quote:
Originally posted by justthinking:
I am a union worker. I also have family members on both sides of this fence. But anyone who thinks that doing a way with the unions has obviously never worked in the type of work we do, and do not realize the need for the union. As for the comments about unions keeping alcoholics, drug addicts and lazy people people working- I will have you know that this is the job I do to take care of my children. I am not lazy. I am not an alcohlic nor do I do drugs. I was raised by a father who was a union worker. My grandfathers were both union workers. My uncle, my brother-in-laws, my friends, all union workers. We are good people trying to stand up for our rights. We do not want what we have not earned. Maybe you want to work 20 hours a day for straight pay and be told when you will and wont stay over on a job. Maybe you want to have people who are not qualified to come in and do jobs that could be potentially dangerous to yourself and others. Maybe you want to lose the health insurance for you and your children. I don't. This is why I support my union. When Wise Alloys fails and the business is no longer here, many non-union people will see jsut how much this company meant to our economic community as well. Maybe then you will see that the unions aren't such a bad thing when your kids are going to work at the chicken plant with the mexicans (if they are lucky).


I work in a chicken plant that is unionized, so what does that say? And just like all the things mentioned previously about insurance, providing for my family, paying for my college education, this has all come from this chicken plant job!



I work in a chicken plant that is unionized, so what does that say? And just like all the things mentioned previously about insurance, providing for my family, paying for your college education, this has all come from this chicken plant job! Yep, and by the time you pay your taxes, your high insurance,paying for your college That leaves very little for you to provide for your family. But if you like that then keep thinking the way you do. Then again you may be the CEO of the chicken plant, and that may explain why you feel the way you do.
I'm an hourly worker, who pays $31/wk for family insurance coverage. It is hard for me to provide for my family, but I know that my future is going to come through education. I'm doing what I have to do at this point in my life to provide a better future for me and my family. I was always told that honest work is honest work. I've seen alot of honest hard working people have their jobs saved because of our union (UFCW). The Shoals area needs more better paying hourly jobs, with decent benefits. The cold reality in this global economy is this: take cuts in pay and benefits, or have employers move work to underpaid workers in Mexico, India, and China. It's that simple. The day of hourly workers having good paying jobs to provide for their families is dissappearing in this country. Unions or no union, when the borders were opened for free trade, this is the result.
You got to understand all the skilled intelligent capable managers and salaried people have been gone for some time. Wise is not Reynolds, it is a third rate company with third rate managers, and third rate companies don't know how to manage except by drastic cost cutting without regard for the consequences. All that is left in management is scrubs with egos, the worst kind. They have no creativity or imagination. What you will see next is quality continue to suffer until they lose customers and eventually either close or someone buy it and shutter the production capacity. If anyone continues to work there they must suffer the whims and bad decisions, that's the way it works. It's an old plant with old equipment and without new large amounts of capital (which they dont have) it will whither away, the fact they have decided to take on the unions is a signal they are close to withering. So act accordingly.
The FACT that they are allowing ABB into their organization to SAVE them is something that amazes me!!!! It totally proves that the management has NOT been doing their jobs for a very long time, or else ABB has bought stock into that location.

ABB is one of the highest paid contractors that are operating world wide, and Wise can AFFORD to hire their serices.

Everyone take a whiff, there is something fishy going on there and it is NOT going to help our Shoals Economy.

Now, as it stands, TMC is doing a pretty good job with local labor, but they are (supposedly) be a separate entity from Wise.

I think this is a money game that most of us do NOT want to see played out.

You guys need to really read up on ABB and their past practices and the way THEY do people. THey aren't going to be put in place to "SAVE" Wise, they will close it with the "CLASS" that they are so experienced at.
I wonder why Wise didn't contract with ABB to replace their Engineering and Information Systems departments? Those are right in ABB's wheelhouse of speciality. ABB could do a much more efficient job and I'm sure could expand their cost savings. Those are salaried not union jobs so would be no resistence. A gimme.

IMO Look next in 6 months or so for them to contract out production workers (Steelworkers Union) to an employment service such as Sara Lee uses for their production force. It's the logical next step.
quote:
Originally posted by EvilGenius:
I wonder why Wise didn't contract with ABB to replace their Engineering and Information Systems departments? Those are right in ABB's wheelhouse of speciality. ABB could do a much more efficient job and I'm sure could expand their cost savings. Those are salaried not union jobs so would be no resistence. A gimme.

IMO Look next in 6 months or so for them to contract out production workers (Steelworkers Union) to an employment service such as Sara Lee uses for their production force. It's the logical next step.



The public will be the LAST to know, and the workers too, but it isn't going to be a GOOD thing. And it is going to cost our area dearly!!!

I am wondering why they didn't turn it all over to TMC if they HAD to make any moves?? They have all the TECH people at their beck and call, so why ABB???

For anyone who don't know TMC, it is LOCALLY OPERATED, and some VERY good folks there who has the benefits of tech support and is housed within the confines of Wise. WHY ABB???

Something underhanded is in the air, smell it??
If anyone wants to take the time to Google ABB you will find that it is DEFINITELY NOT an AMERICAN COMPANY, and that it's stock was down this past week, bet it goes up next week with all the aluminum makers in the USA.

This is really looking BAD for Wise, and for the Managers who professed to be MANAGERS all these years.

This isn't about "BREAKING THE UNIONS" it is about Corporate America taking over, we are just now getting a nice BITE of it, we have only previously had a taste.
Last edited by Kindred

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