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You better buy christmas gifts with cash not plastic.

Patrick J. Buchanan: The Crash of 2008? :

The Fed's raising of interest rates would push up the rates on mortgages, credit cards and auto loans, and push millions of marginal folks into bankruptcy and the country into recession, a disaster for the Republicans.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23465


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people... it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill
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You can't buy CHRISTMAS, just gifts. Read Dr. Seuss' How The Grinch Stole Christmas. The character Cindy Lou Who explains the concept very well!

Second, people ought to use cash for gifts! Why on earth would someone go into debt to buy things for others (that they probably don't need / want anyway) in celebration of a pagan ritual?
People need to wake up and smell the coffee. I see 1929 happening again, only much worse. Back in the Great Depression, people ignored the warning signs just like they are doing today. When you lose everything you've got then you might start paying attention to warning signs. People will shop this Christmas and shop to the max, never thinking about the possibility of how interest rates may go up or how long their job may last and never think about sickness can wipe out a family. All this has been in the news every day but people still continue to spend with no idea what lies ahead.

You don't have to max out your credit card to have a good Christmas. Let the corporations hurt this time instead of you.


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people... it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
You can't buy CHRISTMAS, just gifts. Read Dr. Seuss' How The Grinch Stole Christmas. The character Cindy Lou Who explains the concept very well!

Second, people ought to use cash for gifts! Why on earth would someone go into debt to buy things for others (that they probably don't need / want anyway) in celebration of a pagan ritual?


While I completely agree that Christmas has become way too commercialized and we have gotten away from the true meaning of the season, can you please enlighten me as to how it is a "pagan ritual"?
quote:
Originally posted by jmchicks1:
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
You can't buy CHRISTMAS, just gifts. Read Dr. Seuss' How The Grinch Stole Christmas. The character Cindy Lou Who explains the concept very well!

Second, people ought to use cash for gifts! Why on earth would someone go into debt to buy things for others (that they probably don't need / want anyway) in celebration of a pagan ritual?


While I completely agree that Christmas has become way too commercialized and we have gotten away from the true meaning of the season, can you please enlighten me as to how it is a "pagan ritual"?



Why is that that people wanna hi-jack this post?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people... it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill
Oh my, make a post, have people AGREE with you not to use plastic, then keep on preaching about it.

Did you just sit there and IGNORE what the replies have been????

Cash is the ONLY way to go, besides, this particular subject has been discussed several times on here. I already know who uses plastic and who don't, without anymore replies on here at all, lol.
quote:
Originally posted by jmchicks1:
While I completely agree that Christmas has become way too commercialized and we have gotten away from the true meaning of the season, can you please enlighten me as to how it is a "pagan ritual"?
Are you kidding? Really. Are you? Just in case you are not...
Christmas Trees, Wreaths, Holly, Mistletoe, Candles, the colors Red & Green, and even Jolly old Santa Claus with bag full of gifts all have their roots in PAGAN rituals, not Christianity. No offense to the Pagans, my Wiccan friends are great folks. They don't pretend that they are Christians, and by the same token I am not going to pretend that the "customs" of trees and gift giving have anything to do with worshiping God or celebrating the birth of Christ.

Ask yourself: would Christ have a Christmas tree? Would he be at the mall buying gifts for the disciples on his MasterCard?
Ya know, I was a little shocked when I found out some of my friends were Wiccan. I was like "you are a witch? Like a real WITCH in a coven and with eyes of newt and toad's toes?". Thankfully I was horribly misinformed about all of that! But yeah, they give me a hard time at Christmas (and Easter) because a lot of the themes overlap.
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
quote:
Originally posted by jmchicks1:
While I completely agree that Christmas has become way too commercialized and we have gotten away from the true meaning of the season, can you please enlighten me as to how it is a "pagan ritual"?
Are you kidding? Really. Are you? Just in case you are not...
Christmas Trees, Wreaths, Holly, Mistletoe, Candles, the colors Red & Green, and even Jolly old Santa Claus with bag full of gifts all have their roots in PAGAN rituals, not Christianity. No offense to the Pagans, my Wiccan friends are great folks. They don't pretend that they are Christians, and by the same token I am not going to pretend that the "customs" of trees and gift giving have anything to do with worshiping God or celebrating the birth of Christ.

Ask yourself: would Christ have a Christmas tree? Would he be at the mall buying gifts for the disciples on his MasterCard?



Well, if we are going to get REAL technical here, was He even born on Dec. 25th???? Or CREATED for the love of MONEY and GIFTS??? Hmmmmmmmmmmm........

Christ, whom I love with all my heart wasn't born on America's Dec. 25th.
Right-O, Kindred. No shephard would be tending to their flock in the dead of winter. It is just as cold in Bethlehem on Dec 25 as it is freezing cold in the winter. From Wiki: Climate: winter from November to March, coldest in January with high of 13 to low of 1 degree Celsius (55°–33°F); summer from June to September, warmest in August with high of 27 to low of 17 degrees Celsius (81°–63°F).
LOL TSC Smiler We parallel I swear. I Thought much the same way too. But then once I got to know more, I thought what they believed in, was very interesting.

Whileas, I am Christian too, I think the Wiccan/pagan celebrations are beautifully done. Big Grin Especially Yule. Big Grin

And they, like your friends have always totally respected that I didn't believe the same. Perhaps because I respected them, too. Smiler

And Mom, you are right. The Calendar date isn't accurate, mostly because in Biblical times they didn't have the same methods of calculating hours/days/months or even years, as us. Smiler

The reason we celebrate though, is because someone along the way deemed it a 'probable estimation of time' to celebrate the Birth of Jesus. Thus Christmas was formed. Big Grin

*edit here* Also, it paralleled with the Pagan celebration of Yule- Which I think is why that someone chose Dec. 25th. Smiler

It is sad though that it's become so commercialized that sometimes, the real "feeling" of the Holiday isn't felt, regardless of religious beliefs.

~Amanda
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred:
Oh my, make a post, have people AGREE with you not to use plastic, then keep on preaching about it.

Did you just sit there and IGNORE what the replies have been????

Cash is the ONLY way to go, besides, this particular subject has been discussed several times on here. I already know who uses plastic and who don't, without anymore replies on here at all, lol.



KS, Are you back on my butt? Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred:
Christmas is a Holiday that is grasped by Americans to be able to buy presents, decorate homes, and have fun.

I have ALWAYS wondered just WHY each and every family couldn't pick a date to revere the Lord and have a FAMILY DAY of it????

But when I voice that, people think I am weird, lol.


But when I voice that, people think I am weird, lol.

KS, We know you're weird that makes you special. Cool




"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people... it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill
Last edited by Jan55
WHAT?! I'll have you know I share every Christmas with Jesus. And He happens to like my Christmas tree filled with memories past, happily blinking colored lights, every gift given to someone I love and every off-key Christmas carol.

It may be a pagan holiday for somebody somewhere at some time, but at my house it's giving just as God gave to us. Anybody else can celebrate it as they see fit. Won't change a thing at my house.

And we call Halloween...Halloween, also not celebrated as a pagan holiday, whatever the heck that means. It's dress-up candy day, has been as long as I can remember, and we're not changing that because somebody decided to make a big stink about it.

<getting off soapbox> Wink
Now I've gone and made Joy mad! Darn you PBA!!! Just joking (on both statements)!

I didn't mean that the whole thing is pagan. Maybe I should clarify - SO MANY folks celebrate "Christmas" as a time to get presents, gorge themselves on pie, get drunk on egg nog, and out-do the neighbor's decorations. The whole Reason for the Season gets lost. I'll never forget the time I asked my (now ex) husband's sister if she even knew whose birthday we were celebrating. She looked me dead in the eye and said "duh, Santa's!" She was 8 or 9 years old.

The commercialization of it, people going into debt, giving lavish gifts to those with no needs while overlooking the needy... that is the part that boils my oil.
Why is cash the only way to go? And who decided that? Someone who can’t control their spending?

I pay my balance off every month and the credit cards I use reward me. It’s like getting a discount. No, it is getting a discount. Plus, if I time it right, I don’t have to pay anything for 30 days. What’s the problem with that?

Tote around a ton of cash if you will and draw less interest at the bank. Or you check book with you bank account number on it. Might better tote a Glock, too.

Most I stand to lose is $50 per card if the two I have gets gone.

That aside, might I add though my family and friends participate in gift-giving and gatherings, we never forget that the birth of Christ is the reason for the season. I have celebrated a few Christmases without gifts or gatherings, but Christ was still there.
I'm not mad...well, okay, perhaps a wee bit peeved. Smiler

No, I know you are right about the commercialization part. I even found myself neck deep in it myself at one time before looking around & putting the breaks on. We stopped "keeping up with the Joneses" a long time ago. When my kids were little, we literally disconnected cable and just rented movies the whole month of December. You know, don't be trying to play me AND my kids...no way. Momma ain't havin' none of that. Big Grin
I use cards with restraint. Cash is too dangerous to hold. I also keep up with all APRs.
As for gifts, I think that was a blending of gifts from the Three Wise Men and the giving of St. Nicholas. The date is arbitrary. Just trying to find something for a unified celebration day. I also study wicca. Its unique. Well, enough BS.
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
Now I've gone and made Joy mad! Darn you PBA!!! Just joking (on both statements)!

I didn't mean that the whole thing is pagan. Maybe I should clarify - SO MANY folks celebrate "Christmas" as a time to get presents, gorge themselves on pie, get drunk on egg nog, and out-do the neighbor's decorations. The whole Reason for the Season gets lost. I'll never forget the time I asked my (now ex) husband's sister if she even knew whose birthday we were celebrating. She looked me dead in the eye and said "duh, Santa's!" She was 8 or 9 years old.

The commercialization of it, people going into debt, giving lavish gifts to those with no needs while overlooking the needy... that is the part that boils my oil.



Just blame poor me Frowner
quote:
Originally posted by budsfarm:
Why is cash the only way to go? And who decided that? Someone who can’t control their spending?

I pay my balance off every month and the credit cards I use reward me. It’s like getting a discount. No, it is getting a discount. Plus, if I time it right, I don’t have to pay anything for 30 days. What’s the problem with that?

Tote around a ton of cash if you will and draw less interest at the bank. Or you check book with you bank account number on it. Might better tote a Glock, too.

Most I stand to lose is $50 per card if the two I have gets gone.

That aside, might I add though my family and friends participate in gift-giving and gatherings, we never forget that the birth of Christ is the reason for the season. I have celebrated a few Christmases without gifts or gatherings, but Christ was still there.



You have more smarts and control than most folks. What I am speaking of is so many will max out their cards to the max and have no control and no way to pay. This is why they have to get a mortgage to pay off christmas bills and God knows what.
quote:
Originally posted by budsfarm:
Why is cash the only way to go? And who decided that? Someone who can’t control their spending?

I pay my balance off every month and the credit cards I use reward me. It’s like getting a discount. No, it is getting a discount. Plus, if I time it right, I don’t have to pay anything for 30 days. What’s the problem with that?

Tote around a ton of cash if you will and draw less interest at the bank. Or you check book with you bank account number on it. Might better tote a Glock, too.

Most I stand to lose is $50 per card if the two I have gets gone.

That aside, might I add though my family and friends participate in gift-giving and gatherings, we never forget that the birth of Christ is the reason for the season. I have celebrated a few Christmases without gifts or gatherings, but Christ was still there.



You have more smarts and control than most folks. What I am speaking of is so many will max out their cards to the max and have no control and no way to pay. This is why they have to get a mortgage to pay off christmas bills and God knows what.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people... it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill
quote:
Originally posted by jmchicks1:
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
You can't buy CHRISTMAS, just gifts. Read Dr. Seuss' How The Grinch Stole Christmas. The character Cindy Lou Who explains the concept very well!

Second, people ought to use cash for gifts! Why on earth would someone go into debt to buy things for others (that they probably don't need / want anyway) in celebration of a pagan ritual?


While I completely agree that Christmas has become way too commercialized and we have gotten away from the true meaning of the season, can you please enlighten me as to how it is a "pagan ritual"?


TSC, Manda, and the others are correct. Christmas itself dates back to about 300 AD, but the celebration of Dec 25'th goes back a lot longer. Emperor Constentine could NOT get his subjects to quit celebrating their beloved mid-winter festival on Dec 25th of decorating trees, and giving gifts, so he "copped" it to be a Christian holiday. Yule logs I believe were celebrated in the Nordic culture for centuries, and the big feast was because in Northern Europe they killed whatever stock could not be sustained over the winter and feasted on some of it.
Celebration of Christmas was later banned by the early church (as a pagan holiday) and in fact our founding fathers did not celebrate the holiday.
Took Santa Clause to save Christmas.
Fed Expects Slowdown to Deepen - New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/business/21fed.html?th&emc=th


Fed Expects Slowdown to Deepen



By EDMUND L. ANDREWS
Published: November 21, 2007

WASHINGTON, Nov. 20 — The Federal Reserve expects economic growth to slow sharply next year, and policy makers there are worried that even this forecast may prove too optimistic, according to an assessment that the central bank released on Tuesday.

In a new effort to be more open, the Fed released a detailed forecast that summarized the predictions of the Fed governors and regional bank presidents.

It also reported their disagreements, which almost all centered on how much the broad economy is likely to be damaged by the surge in oil prices and the tight credit markets brought on by the recent severe problems in housing and mortgage lending.

At the same time, Fed officials expect unemployment to rise only slightly and inflation to edge down. In a shift from three weeks ago, the officials said they agreed that recent evidence of slowing inflation was more than a temporary blip and would “likely be sustained.”

Neither the forecast nor newly released minutes from the Fed’s last meeting on Oct. 31 mentioned the chances of a recession. But the new predictions are low enough that, if borne out, the economic situation might well feel like a recession to many people.

The forecast, which was much anticipated, did nothing to end the battle of wills between Fed officials and Wall Street over the need to reduce interest rates for a third time this year when the rate-setting Federal Open Market Committee meets next, on Dec. 11.

Investors did not seem to know how to react to the information. Share prices initially dropped after the report was released, possibly in reaction to the reluctance that the policy makers had expressed toward cutting rates last month. But prices bounced back and ended the day modestly higher, possibly in response to the Fed’s reduced alarms about inflation.

The Dow Jones industrial average rose 51.70 points, or 0.40 percent, to 13,010.14, after making 100-point swings in both directions. That followed Monday’s drop of more than 200 points. Many Nasdaq or small stocks were flat or lower.

Fed officials have signaled in recent speeches that they do not want to cut rates anytime soon, saying their cuts in September and October would be enough to keep the economy out of recession.

Indeed, many of them were already uneasy about their last cut in the benchmark federal funds rate on Oct. 31, to 4.5 percent from 4.75 percent. According to the minutes of that meeting, Fed bankers saw that decision as a “close call.”

But many investors continue to bet heavily on a rate cut in December, and some economists and Wall Street analysts argue that the economy will come much closer to stalling than the Fed now assumes.

“I think what we’re really debating here is the timing,” said Stuart Hoffman, an economist at PNC Financial in Pittsburgh. “Whether or not it happens on Dec. 11, my guess is that by the March meeting, the Fed funds rate will be 4 percent.”

The new forecasts for growth next year in the gross domestic product range from 1.6 percent to 2.6 percent. That is both lower and more uncertain than in June, when the forecasts ranged from 2.5 percent to 3 percent.

“Most participants viewed the risks to their G.D.P. projections as weighted to the downside,” the central bank said in its summary of the last policy meeting.

The new assessment shows that policy makers still see only limited evidence that the problems in housing and subprime mortgages have damaged the broad economy.

The “central tendency” of policy makers’ individual forecasts calls for economic growth in 2008 of 1.8 percent to 2.5 percent. Growth in 2007 is expected to be 2.4 percent to 2.5 percent.

As a group, the Fed policy makers expect “subpar economic growth” over the next year. They also predict that unemployment will edge up to as much as 5 percent next year, compared with about 4.7 percent today.

But the new report shows that they are much more worried that the downturn in housing and the problems in mortgage markets could cut deeper into the overall economy.

They also appear to have reduced their estimates about the nation’s long-term potential rate of growth without inflation, often described as the economy’s speed limit. The potential growth rate is based on estimates of future productivity growth and increases in the population.

Until recently, most economists estimated a potential growth rate of 3 percent a year. But Fed officials appear to have reduced that to about 2.5 percent, with an assumption that productivity will climb about 1.5 percent a year. That would be much slower than in the 1990s.

The new forecasts represented the Federal Reserve’s latest step from secrecy toward openness, an evolution that has been under way for two decades.

The Fed is now releasing its economic forecast four times a year, rather than twice, and the new forecast looks ahead three years instead of two. Because the outlook stretches further into the future, and assumes that the economy will be shaped by “appropriate” monetary policy, the new outlook implies what Fed officials think is both possible and desirable.

The new forecasts predict that inflation will range from 1.5 to 2 percent in 2008 and 2009. That is slightly higher than the range of 1 to 2 percent that the Fed chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, has mentioned in the past. But it is roughly consistent with what analysts have long considered the Fed’s unofficial target for inflation.

Analysts cautioned that the forecast was muddier than it might appear. That is because it is an amalgam of individual forecasts from each of the Fed’s 12 regional banks and from each of 7 Fed governors. As a result, the consolidated predictions for growth, employment and inflation can seem at odds with one another.

One incongruity, for example, is that the Fed forecasts significantly slower growth over the next year but only a modest increase in unemployment to 5 percent — still a low level judged by long-term perspectives.

Ian Shepherdson, chief United States economist at High Frequency Economics, said he would take the Fed forecasts with a grain of salt.

“The Fed is just as beholden to the short-term, high-frequency data as it ever was,” he wrote in a note to clients. “We do not propose in the future to devote much time to the Fed’s now-quarterly forecasting exercise.”
House has been paid off for twenty years and have only had that "fantastic plastic" for fifteen years. Never paid a penny of interest on credit cards by zero balancing every month.

I personally believe that credit cards (fantastic plastic) are a wonderful way to Christmas shop...Don't forget to give a little something extra to the Lord also. Wink
Hate credit cards...for me. Unless you pay them off before interest accrues, & a really high percentage of consumers don't, you pay more for something than you would have paying cash.

I don't need one. I can use a debit card. If for any reason a business will not accept my form of payment, I will happily give their competitor my money.

I have known people that were disciplined enough to use them wisely, but they are few and far between. If you can do it, more power to you. I can't, know that about myself, cut those suckers up and never looked back. Smiler
The dangerous thing about the debit card is, you get it stolen or lose it and someone can debit everything in your account. If someone steals my credit card, or I lose it, I am out $50. I cut up every debit card that comes here.

I maintain a substantial balance in my draft account and I certainly would not like to have that amount debited by an unauthorized person.
quote:
The dangerous thing about the debit card is, you get it stolen or lose it and someone can debit everything in your account. If someone steals my credit card, or I lose it, I am out $50. I cut up every debit card that comes here.


I only use a debt card, I've never used a credit card in my life and I never will. Debit cards are just like cash except protected and no interest.

My sister had her's stolen and her account cleaned out. One call to the bank and all the money was back, no charge. Just my opinion, but I think you're cutting up the wrong cards.

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