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IMO, there has been a very subtle deception which has crept into the American mindset, and in select Christian communities.

It is that, 'yes, you too, can be rich!'

You too, can be rich.

If you work hard enough, you can be part of the Great American Dream!

Not only can you own your own house, you can own others' houses too!

Yes, you too can be rich!

You can buy Gucci loafers and wear Jaeger LeCoultre watches (forget the Rolex crap), and drive Bentley automobiles while wearing full length mink, sable, ermine & chinchilla coats, silk undergarments, and linen clothing.

Your hands, wrists, necks, ears, toes, nose (and select private portions of your body) can be adorned with diamonds, pearls, emeralds encrusted in platinum and ensconced with 22 karat gold.

You can dine upon the finest caviar, the choicest, richest, most select beef, lamb with mint jelly, French Champagne, and exotic dishes the world over... the veritable fat of the land.

If you're poor, it's your own fault, you lazy slob!

All this can be yours... and your soul in the process.
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We've "heard," or should I "say" instead, read, much of this type of rhetoric in various threads in this forum.

For example, "If you're poor, it's your own fault, you lazy slob," has been bandied about in one form or another.

Kinda' makes ya' go hmmm, doesn't it?

So poverty is a choice now?

If that's true, it must be true for the majority of the people in the world, whom all live on less than $2 per day.
I am not rich. I am not poor, yet. BUT, I am not a Republican, I don't go to a church which builds million dollar buildings in neghborhoods where there are families living who can't afford electricity or food. I don't really consider my self a "religious" person, I am spiritual but since it seems like (and everyone knows this is the buckle of the Bible belt) that if everyone who claims Christianity in this area practiced what Jesus Christ taught, THERE WOULD BE NO POOR IN THE SHOALS. I am no biblical scholar for sure: but do remember qoutes from Sunday School days such as: "Whatever you do for the least of these, my Father will do 10 fold." "It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than a camel to go through the eye of the needle" That's just two. (Should have listened more in SS I guess) MY POINT IS: Don't give me hypocrisy and it is abundant in America and especially here in the Shoals! THE DOG BARKS AND BITES!
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
I am not rich. I am not poor, yet. BUT, I am not a Republican, I don't go to a church which builds million dollar buildings in neghborhoods where there are families living who can't afford electricity or food. I don't really consider my self a "religious" person, I am spiritual but since it seems like (and everyone knows this is the buckle of the Bible belt) that if everyone who claims Christianity in this area practiced what Jesus Christ taught, THERE WOULD BE NO POOR IN THE SHOALS. I am no biblical scholar for sure: but do remember qoutes from Sunday School days such as: "Whatever you do for the least of these, my Father will do 10 fold." "It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than a camel to go through the eye of the needle" That's just two. (Should have listened more in SS I guess) MY POINT IS: Don't give me hypocrisy and it is abundant in America and especially here in the Shoals! THE DOG BARKS AND BITES!



MADDOG, I liked your comment, and I can agree with it in so many ways. I am a Christian, I read the Bible, but I dont belive I have to go to a 4 Million Dollar Church Building to have God in my heart and in my life.

RICH??? POOR??? Are they choices? I don't think so, otherwise everyone would be rich. I know so many people who work their rears off on not one, but two jobs just to make ends meet... is that person lazy? Heck no, will that person ever be rich? Probably not because the RICH status is full at the moment... Think about it.
This is one of my favorite American social demographics, i.e.,the haves' versus the have nots.
I contend that this mentality of differences will be Americas' downfall. It is based in resentment of your neighbors success, if you are a have not. The terrible Communist experiment ended because of the premise that all should, regardless of effort, recieve financial equality. Their system collapsed, yet many long for the return of handouts, strange.
America is supposed to be a "classless" society, but we all know that is not true. Welfare and social engineering programs have created a permanent underclass here. Some would rather sit at home, on welfare, than work and then complain about their circumstances. Well the Democrats are here to the rescue. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
You do realize the parable about a rich man getting to heaven was easier than a camel passing thru the eye of a needle was a humorous tale told by Jesus. An extreme narrow gate in the old city wall in Jerusaleum is called the Needle's Eye.


General Interpretation

The most common Christian interpretation is that Jesus uses the physical impossibility of a camel passing through a needle (compare the similar Talmudic expression involving an elephant) to hyperbolically express the difficulty of entering heaven. A rich man would not ordinarily be able to enter the kingdom of heaven (and the disciples interpreted this to mean that no one can be saved, since wealth was considered a sign of God's favor); but God can achieve what would be impossible without his help. Jesus spoke in response to the rich man's unwillingness to give up his worldly possessions; through the grace of God, he might be able to give up his attachment to them. Christians also typically use the account of the rich young ruler, including this phrase, to teach about the deceitfulness of wealth and worldly prestige, and the duty of alms.

Some scholars have suggested that the word camel (κάμηλον) is in fact a mistranslation of the Greek original, and should instead read rope (κάμιλον). On the weight of this, some English versions read "cable" instead of "camel".3 This explanation is also based on the notion of physical impossibility: neither a camel nor a rope can pass through the eye of a needle.

Alternative Interpretation

Another common explanation of the figure, first recorded by Theophylact of Bulgaria in the eleventh century, was that Jesus was referring to a certain gate in Jerusalem called Needle's Eye, that was built so low that a camel could only pass if it entered kneeling and unencumbered with baggage. The lesson would then be that an eternal inheritance awaits those who unburden themselves of sin, and in particular, the things of this world. Although there is no historical evidence that such a gate ever existed, through frequent repetition the idea has attained the status of virtual dogma in some circles.


Islam

The Quran uses this phrase to express the idea of something that is unlikely to happen:

To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin. Al-Araf (The Heights) 7:40

I did not write this post! Someone at the TD is
responsible for the CRAP!!!!!
Last edited by The Fonze
quote:
"Welfare and social engineering programs have created a permanent underclass here."


Those same "programs" must have a devastating effect on the majority of the world's 6.5 Billion people, the majority of which live on less than $2.00/day.

United States population = approx 300,000,000
(approximately 4.6% of the world's population, an ULTRA minority)
Shoals, you know we agree (on most things) but I still stand by my statement that if all the churches on every corner (who demand crosswalks on state highways) gave what Jesus Christ preached their would be no poverty in the Shoals. H-Y-P-C-R-I-T-E-S! And what is even worse, is the city is ran due to the affiliation of one particular faith who is the HR director of one of THESE churches!
MADDOG 20/20, you know, I hope, that I agree with you.

In fact, the idea which you espouse was common to the early Christians.

In fact, it's recorded that they "had all things in common."

Sheesh! Sounds too much like communism for some, no doubt!

However, the kingdom of Heaven is so unlike the kingdoms of Earth that it's only "see(n) through a glass darkly."

Indeed, if all were to place their resources in a common pot for the meeting of the needs of all, it would work.

It certainly did for our forebears in the faith!

Why can't it again?

Or perhaps the better question is, "why should it not?"
Paul said:

"I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do everything through him who gives me strength."

I think he's saying poverty nor riches are what is important. It's your relationship with Jesus that matters, and that is where you will find true contentment.
Let us remember that "rich" is a state of mind. I don't have many things which money can buy (currently utilizing 12 yr old car, etc), although I am more fortunate than many. However, I am rich in the truest sense of the word. When I hold my wife, play with the dog, speak with family and friends I'm constantly reminded how "rich" I am. Furthermore, I'd venture to say a monk with very little worldly possessions may also consider himself rich in the same sense. Most seem to want what others have instead of cherishing what they themselves have, hopefully this will include LOVE which can not be bought and certainly can not be stolen.

David
Yes, I recall the verses.

And it is still true that if a human can be a "man after God's own heart" that a "god after man's own heart" would intimate that man makes his own gods.

And we certainly know that is true!

For some, it's money, work, or any other thing than the Almighty.

Thus, it's merely a matter of whose heart one desires to emulate.

Right?
There is the story of the terrible flood, hurricane, sunami etc..
A man has crawled up on his roof as the flood waters rise. He has prayed to his God to save him.
Soon a man comes by in a row boat and asks the man on the roof to join him and go to safety. The stranded man declines saying that "God will save me".
Some time later a couple come by in an airboat and offer to save the man, who again declines citing the same reason.
Lastly the Coast Guard comes by in a large boat offering to save the stranded man, same result.
Of course the man drowns but being a just and decent man goes to Heaven where he encounters God. The man asks God "Why did you not save me?" God answers "who do you think sent the boats?"
I share this little story for those among us who know what God thinks and does. The rest of must rely on faith and in the case of non-believers on the mercy of the stars.
I really don't see where every discussion must end in someone's religious beliefs and or Biblical quotes, not that they are necessarily right or wrong but rather just tedious. I hope our resident Web Master sees and acknowledges this.
quote:
Originally posted by Quarrles:
I really don't see where every discussion must end in someone's religious beliefs and or Biblical quotes, not that they are necessarily right or wrong but rather just tedious. I hope our resident Web Master sees and acknowledges this.


Perhaps because it started as a religious discussion??? Wat choo talkin bout, Quarrles? Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Yo Brotha from anotha Motha:
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
You do realize the parable about a rich man getting to heaven was easier than a camel passing thru the eye of a needle was a humorous tale told by Jesus. An extreme narrow gate in the old city wall in Jerusaleum is called the Needle's Eye.


General Interpretation

The most common Christian interpretation is that Jesus uses the physical impossibility of a camel passing through a needle (compare the similar Talmudic expression involving an elephant) to hyperbolically express the difficulty of entering heaven. A rich man would not ordinarily be able to enter the kingdom of heaven (and the disciples interpreted this to mean that no one can be saved, since wealth was considered a sign of God's favor); but God can achieve what would be impossible without his help. Jesus spoke in response to the rich man's unwillingness to give up his worldly possessions; through the grace of God, he might be able to give up his attachment to them. Christians also typically use the account of the rich young ruler, including this phrase, to teach about the deceitfulness of wealth and worldly prestige, and the duty of alms.

Some scholars have suggested that the word camel (κάμηλον) is in fact a mistranslation of the Greek original, and should instead read rope (κάμιλον). On the weight of this, some English versions read "cable" instead of "camel".3 This explanation is also based on the notion of physical impossibility: neither a camel nor a rope can pass through the eye of a needle.

Alternative Interpretation

Another common explanation of the figure, first recorded by Theophylact of Bulgaria in the eleventh century, was that Jesus was referring to a certain gate in Jerusalem called Needle's Eye, that was built so low that a camel could only pass if it entered kneeling and unencumbered with baggage. The lesson would then be that an eternal inheritance awaits those who unburden themselves of sin, and in particular, the things of this world. Although there is no historical evidence that such a gate ever existed, through frequent repetition the idea has attained the status of virtual dogma in some circles.


Islam

The Quran uses this phrase to express the idea of something that is unlikely to happen:

To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin. Al-Araf (The Heights) 7:40

I did not write this post! Someone at the TD is
responsible for the CRAP!!!!!

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