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I heard an interesting proposal yesterday that may be considered, to give both sides of the anti-government issue what they desire.
Those Americans who wish to support our country's infrastructure through income taxes will continue to recieve the benefits from government works as always. With the exception of adding government ran health-care and colleges to those benefits, nothing will change. They will recieve a "Government works user card" that allows access to all income tax funded facilities.
Those who oppose government works will no longer have to pay income taxes or contribute to Social Security or Medicare and will not be issued a "government works user card". The only thing that will change for these folks is that they must pay a user fee to all tax payer funded facilities. Applications to purchase non-contributor access to government funded facilities will be subject to review and approval. Applicants should allow ample time for processing.
Although Government issued driver's licenses and license plates will not be issued to non-tax paying citizens, they may opt to choose using privately funded highways and bridges of their own creation and will not be inhibited from doing so as long as it does not interfere with public transportation in any way. Civil penalties such as fines and imprisonment will be imposed to non-contributing individuals attempting to use government maintained highways and bridges. Public schools will not be available to non-contributors but private schooling is encouraged. Public healthcare will not be administered to these individuals but they may continue to use "private healthcare" at their own expense. If they can not afford private healthcare, they should contact their "private healthcare" providers for assistance on this matter.
Government funded police and fire departments will not respond to calls from non-contributors so it is reccommended that non-contributors make arrangements with their private fire departments and police for any potential emergencies that may arrise so that response times can be reduced.
This is a great, workable proposition which would, I believe, satisfy the pro as well as the anti-government citizens of the United States of America. It would also relieve pressure on America's infrastructure by reducing the number of Americans using government highways, public schools, libraries, healthcare and retirement supplement programs and etc. Fines imposed on violators would generate revenue because they would be paid to the government and since many jails are privately operated, violators can be expedited to these facilities, eliminating even more tax-payer expenses. Whadaya think?
Also too, non-contributors would not vote in electing government officials but they may vote for corporate CEOs to represent stock holders if corporations choose to follow some type of Democratic venue, you betcha.
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This would never work as you described. The government has stolen too much private property up to this point for private enterprise to become a viable alternative. Now, if some sort of exchange existed where private companies could buy government assets and property at a fair market value, that would be interesting. Government would cease to exist quickly, as virtually all the government's revenue base would opt out of paying taxes.
You either want the government out of your life or you don't. Those of us that support our government will recieve the benefits from it. Those of you who do not want to support our government will not recieve benefits from our government. It's as simple as that.
You want to opt out, that's your decision. We're not going to make "deals" with you by bartering away something we support and pay for.
You don't want to pay your share, that's fine. Go about your business and stay out of ours.
This is really absurd. For one thing income taxes are only part of the equation. No mention is made of gas taxes, sales taxes, property taxes and user fees government receives to support infrastructure. Government doesn't issue you a tag and driver's license for free at least it doesn't to me. Also what about all the taxes I have paid into the system for Medicare and Social Security? Do I get a rebate?

Blacknwhite I think you are smarter than this. Only anarchists want to remove government totally and I don't see them on this forum. Conservatives and libertarians both view government as necessary. However we think it best to limit it where we can.
BNW-

That's all fine and good, but you are overlooking the fundamental importance of private property rights. For instance. the government can't call "dibs" on hydroelectric power from the Tennessee River and then pretend they are the rightful owners. You wouldn't be "bartering away something we support and pay for." You would be claiming a monopoly over stolen property.
The constitution has been sliced, diced, shredded, and trampled for years; it's not the exclusive province of either W or O. I've got a fundamental belief that the country is getting the government it wants and deserves. Personal responsibility and accountability are passe; it seems that EVERYONE, regardless of political stripe, wants the government to give just a little. Welfare, corporate bailouts, abortions, separation of church and state, stimulus cash, health care...none of those are what the government was originally intended to do.

We have let the government become the master of the people. Beating it back down to where it should be, even if anyone actually wanted to do it, will be neither simple nor painless.
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
The constitution has been sliced, diced, shredded, and trampled for years; it's not the exclusive province of either W or O. I've got a fundamental belief that the country is getting the government it wants and deserves. Personal responsibility and accountability are passe; it seems that EVERYONE, regardless of political stripe, wants the government to give just a little. Welfare, corporate bailouts, abortions, separation of church and state, stimulus cash, health care...none of those are what the government was originally intended to do.

We have let the government become the master of the people. Beating it back down to where it should be, even if anyone actually wanted to do it, will be neither simple nor painless.


It appears common ground has been reached! Agreed!
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
quote:
Originally posted by Ronnie P.:
Wait a sec, with all Obama is doing you even suggest Bush trampled the constitution? You are a loon.


Obama's done nothing yet. That's why I'm not happy! What's your problem? Get a clue!


That's what I don't understand. There all so upset and he hasn't done anything yet.
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
quote:
Originally posted by Ronnie P.:
Wait a sec, with all Obama is doing you even suggest Bush trampled the constitution? You are a loon.


Obama's done nothing yet. That's why I'm not happy! What's your problem? Get a clue!


That's what I don't understand. There all so upset and he hasn't done anything yet.


LOL! Hmmmm... One would wonder it these people were a little ...? Ah, nevermind. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
And zippy.... I've got a question for you.

Since you're one of those military or ex military "kill 'em all" kind of guys, if you believe what you just said, then what are we fighting for anymore?

Just wondering...


As usual. Good answer zip. Run away! Run away! Eeker


I can tell you what we are fighting for, excluding afganistan. We are fighting for the preservation of the Anglo-American world empire.

In the dossier entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses" the neo-cons laid out their plan for ensuring that America rules the world. From the seas, to the land, and all the way to space, yes they want to weaponize space. Soldiers will be drugged, and the US in their mind will be the great bully around the world.

Does anyone remember the movie "Soldier" with Kurt Russell?
quote:
Originally posted by barracus:
I'll compromise.
All the socialists move to Cuba and the capitalists stay here. That seem fair.

You all get to live in a paradise of health care and free food and a loving dictator.

I'll even get the boat.


Barracus,
You would be suprised but everyday of your life you accept socialism to some level, without which, life in an orderly society would be impossible.
quote:
Originally posted by barracus:
Extra, dude,
you are really scaring me man. If you and piddle are the thinkers of the left, you need to eat more brain food.

Your Obama boy is the king of the New World Order.
You better get used to Holocaust deniers like Armanie in your bed. Sleep with one eye open.
In Cuba.


My friend,
Obama isn't my man. I didn't vote for him. But I admit i almost did.
You are right about Obama and the NWO, the problem is that you guys who have been brought up on Rush cannot see that he and the whole right establishment are part of it too.

The tools of the NWO that Obama is using was brought into being by Bush.
Whoa, dude, I don't listen to Rush. He's nuts. You libs seem to think he's a little god or something. Not so.
I also don't follow O'Reilly , Hannity or Beck. Why do you all think we do that?

Do all of you worship Obama, Nancy, Reid, Boxer, and Waxman?

I'm guessing piddle and BNW does, but they have only one brain cell between them. You want lock step followers, look at the lib side.

Explain the tools Bush brought into being? Obama going beyond anything he did and in record time.
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
And zippy.... I've got a question for you.

Since you're one of those military or ex military "kill 'em all" kind of guys, if you believe what you just said, then what are we fighting for anymore?

Just wondering...


As usual. Good answer zip. Run away! Run away! Eeker


I can tell you what we are fighting for, excluding afganistan. We are fighting for the preservation of the Anglo-American world empire.

In the dossier entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses" the neo-cons laid out their plan for ensuring that America rules the world. From the seas, to the land, and all the way to space, yes they want to weaponize space. Soldiers will be drugged, and the US in their mind will be the great bully around the world.

Does anyone remember the movie "Soldier" with Kurt Russell?


Thanks Extra. I'm pretty familiar with the neo cons' PNAC. So you might be preaching to the choir a little bit here. Wink I just really wanted to hear zippy's answer. So if and when zippy decides to come out from under his mama's skirt, I would still like to hear it. Big Grin

It's amazing how these things were actually written down on paper years before they actually happened but many simply refuse to acknowledge it!
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
What are we fighting for, piddle?

I doubt you are capable of understanding. Besides, to an America-hating coward, there would never be any moral justification for going to war.

And it's only accidental I saw your message since you're on "ignore" for being a fatuous idiot.


I fugured you didn't have an answer. Appears to me you just like shooting things.
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
What are we fighting for, piddle?

I doubt you are capable of understanding. Besides, to an America-hating coward, there would never be any moral justification for going to war.

And it's only accidental I saw your message since you're on "ignore" for being a fatuous idiot.


Well, give it try zippy. I've been wondering about this for some time now. I'd sure like someone to offer up a reason.
quote:
Originally posted by Extra260:
quote:
Explain the tools Bush brought into being?



Let's see:
Patriot Act.
Incarceration of citizens without trial
Civilian Inmate labor camps
we could go on.


Still stuck on your conspiracy fantasies.

Except for Pedilla no citizens were held without trial. He's being tried, now!

No such things as civilian inmate labor camps, sorry to disturb you paranoia. I know that really injures you ego or is it super ego!

For example, one of you links mentioned a camp for two million in Alaska. That really is fantasy. Alaska's population is about 650,000. So, that would require moving the equivalent of three times that state's population to the state, a state with weak infrastructure.

First, people would have to be moved to ports like Seattle and Portland, probably by rail. Then, by ship to Anchorage. From Anchorage by rail to the camp. There's only 500 miles of rail in the state. Using all the rolling stock in the state would require many months. Then, to a camp where the ground is frozen six months out of the year. Try disposing of that amount of human waste with frozen ground.

Then, try shipping food to feed such a massive amount. Providing water would be even worse. If they die, disposal would be horrendous. Again, frozen ground!

Kooks dream up these scenarios without thinking them thru.
quote:
For example, one of you links mentioned a camp for two million in Alaska. That really is fantasy. Alaska's population is about 650,000. So, that would require moving the equivalent of three times that state's population to the state, a state with weak infrastructure.

First, people would have to be moved to ports like Seattle and Portland, probably by rail. Then, by ship to Anchorage. From Anchorage by rail to the camp. There's only 500 miles of rail in the state. Using all the rolling stock in the state would require many months. Then, to a camp where the ground is frozen six months out of the year. Try disposing of that amount of human waste with frozen ground.

Then, try shipping food to feed such a massive amount. Providing water would be even worse. If they die, disposal would be horrendous. Again, frozen ground!

Kooks dream up these scenarios without thinking them thru.


Stalin and the Russions didn't see any of those things as an obstacle. Siberia became the place people went when they were to disappear.

As for civlian inmate labor camps, the link to the PDF file from the Army:

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf


Government plan for rounding up and incarcerating American citizens called REX 84 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

This one called "Operation Garden Plot". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Garden_Plot
quote:
Except for Pedilla no citizens were held without trial. He's being tried, now!



What don't you understand. The same laws that allow Padilla to be held without trial, allow the President to declare ANYONE a terrorist and apprehend and then hold without trial, US citizens. An obvious violation of the Constitution.

Once again you show your "Mushroom" classification in the NWO organization you are a member of.
Last edited by Extra260

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