Skip to main content

The following true story of Claude Newman took place in Mississippi in 1944. The account was told by Father O'Leary, a priest from Mississippi, who was directly involved with the events. He has left for posterity an audio recording it.

Claude Newman was a black man who worked the fields for a landowner. He had married when he was 17 years old to a woman of the same age. One day, two years later, he was out plowing the fields. Another worker ran to tell Claude that his wife was screaming from the house. Immediately Claude ran into his house and found a man attacking his wife. Claude saw red, grabbed an axe and split the man's head open. When they rolled the man over, they discovered that it was the favorite employee of the landowner for whom Claude worked. Claude was arrested. He was later sentenced for murder and condemned to die in the electric chair.

While he was in jail awaiting execution, he shared a cell-block of some sort with four other prisoners. One night, the five men were sitting around talking and they ran out of conversation. Claude noticed a medal on a string around another prisoner's neck. He asked what it was, and the Catholic boy told him that it was a medal. Claude said, "What is a medal?" The Catholic boy could not explain what a medal was or what its purpose was. At that point, and in anger, the Catholic boy snatched the medal from his own neck and threw it on the floor at Claude's feet with a curse and a cuss, telling him to take the thing.

Claude picked up the medal, and with permission from the prison attendants, placed it on a string around his own neck. To him it was simply a trinket, but he wanted to wear it.

During the night, sleeping on top of his cot, he was awakened with a touch on his wrist. And there stood, as Claude told the priest later, the most beautiful woman that God ever created. At first he was very frightened. The Lady calmed down Claude, and then said to him, "If you would like Me to be your Mother, and you would like to be My child, send for a priest of the Catholic Church." With that She disappeared.

Claude immediately became terrified, and started to scream, "a ghost, a ghost", and fled to the cell of one of the other prisoners. He then started screaming that he wanted a Catholic priest.

Father O'Leary , the priest who tells the story, was called first thing the next morning. He arrived and found Claude who told him of what had happened the night before. Then Claude, along with the other four men in his cell-block, asked for religious instruction, for catechism.

Initially, Father O'Leary had difficulty believing the story. The other prisoners told the priest that everything in the story was true; but of course, they neither saw nor heard the vision of the Lady.

Father O'Leary promised to teach them catechism, as they had requested. He went back to his parish, told the rector what had happened, and returned to the prison the next day to give instruction.

It was then that the priest learned that Claude Newman could neither read nor write at all. The only way he could tell if a book was right-side-up was if the book contained a picture. Claude had never been to school. And his ignorance of religion was even more profound. He knew nothing at all about religion. He did not know who Jesus was. He did not know anything except that there was a God.

Claude began receiving instructions, and the other prisoners helped him with his studies. After a few days, two of the religious Sisters from Father O'Leary's parish-school obtained permission from the warden to come to the prison. They wanted to meet Claude, and they also wanted to visit the women in the prison. On another floor of the prison, the Sisters then started to teach some of the women-prisoners catechism as well.

Several weeks passed, and it came time when Father O'Leary was going to give instructions about the Sacrament of Confession. The Sisters too sat in on the class. The priest said to the prisoners, "Okay, boys, today I'm going to teach you about the Sacrament of Confession."

Claude said, "Oh, I know about that!"

"The Lady told me," said Claude, "that when we go to confession we are kneeling down not before a priest, but we're kneeling down by the Cross of Her Son. And that when we are truly sorry for our sins, and we confess our sins, the Blood He shed flows down over us and washes us free from all sins."
Father O'Leary and the Sisters sat stunned with their mouths wide open. Claude thought they were angry and said, "Oh don't be angry, don't be angry, I didn't mean to blurt it out."

The priest said, "We're not angry. We're just amazed. You have seen Her again?"

Claude said, "Come around the cell-block away from the others."

When they were alone, Claude said to the priest, "She told me that if you doubted me or showed hesitancy, I was to remind you that lying in a ditch in Holland, in 1940, you made a vow to Her which She's still waiting for you to keep." And, Father O'Leary recalls, "Claude told me exactly what the vow was."

This convinced Father O'Leary that Claude was telling the truth about his visions of Our Lady.

They then returned to the catechism class on Confession. And Claude kept telling the other prisoners, "You should not be afraid to go to confession. You're really telling God your sins, not this priest, or any priest. We're telling God our sins." Then Claude said, "You know, the Lady said [that Confession is] something like a telephone. We talk through the priest to God and God talks back to us through the priest."

About a week later, Father O'Leary was preparing to teach the class about the Blessed Sacrament. The Sisters were present for this too. Claude indicated that the Lady had also taught him about Holy Communion, and he asked if he could tell the priest what She said. The priest agreed immediately. Claude related, "The Lady told me that in Communion, I will only see what looks like a piece of bread. But She told me that THAT is really and truly Her Son. And that He will be with me just for a few moments as He was with Her before He was born in Bethlehem. And that I should spend my time like She did, in all Her time with Him, in loving Him, adoring Him, thanking Him, praising Him and asking Him for blessings. I shouldn't be bothered by anybody else or anything else. But I should spend those few minutes with Him."

Eventually they finished the instructions, Claude was received into the Catholic Church, and the time came for Claude to be executed. He was to be executed at five minutes after twelve, midnight.

The sheriff asked him, "Claude, you have the privilege of a last request. What do you want?"

"Well," said Claude, "you're all shook up. The jailer is all shook up. But you don't understand. I'm not going to die. Just this body. I'm going to be with Her. So, can I have a party?"

"What do you mean?", asked the sheriff.

"A Party!" said Claude. "Will you give Father permission to bring in some cakes and ice cream and will you allow the prisoners on the second floor to be turned loose in the main room so that we can all be together and have a party?"

"Somebody might attack Father," cautioned the warden.

Claude turned to the men who were standing by and said, "Oh no, they won't. Will you fellas?"

So, the priest visited a wealthy patron of the parish, and she supplied the ice cream and cake. They had their party.

Afterwards, because Claude had requested it, they made a Holy Hour. The priest had brought prayer books from the Church and they all said together the Stations of the Cross, and a had a Holy Hour, without the Blessed Sacrament.

Afterwards, the men were put back in their cells. The priest went to the chapel to get the Blessed Sacrament so that he could give Claude Holy Communion.

Father O'Leary returned to Claude's cell. Claude knelt on one side of the bars, the priest knelt on the other, and they prayer together as the clock ticked toward Claude's execution.

Fifteen minutes before the execution, the sheriff came running up the stairs shouting, "Reprieve, Reprieve, the Governor has given a two-week reprieve!" Claude had not been aware that the sheriff and the District Attorney were trying to get a stay of execution for Claude to save his life. When Claude found out, he started to cry.

The priest and the sheriff thought it was a reaction of joy because he was not going to be executed. But Claude said, "Oh you men don't know. And Father, you don't know. If you ever looked into Her face, and looked into Her eyes, you wouldn't want to live another day."

Claude then said, "What have I done wrong these past weeks that God would refuse me my going home?" And the priest said that Claude sobbed as one who was brokenhearted.

The sheriff left the room. The priest remained and gave Claude Holy Communion. Claude eventually quieted down. Then Claude said, "Why? Why must I still remain here for two weeks?"

The priest had a sudden idea.

He reminded Claude about a prisoner in the jail who hated Claude intensely. This prisoner had led a horribly immoral life, and he too was sent to be executed.

The priest said, "Maybe Our Blessed Mother wants you to offer this denial of being with Her for his conversion." The priest continued, "Why don't you offer to God every moment you are separated from Her for this prisoner so that he will not be separated from God for all eternity."

Claude agreed, and asked the priest to teach him the words to make the offering. The priest complied. At the time, the only two people who knew about this offering were Claude and Father O'Leary.

The next day, Claude said to the priest, "That prisoner hated me before, but Oh! Father, how he hates me now!" The priest said, "Well, that's a good sign."

Two weeks later, Claude was executed.

Father O'Leary remarked, "I've never seen anyone go to his death as joyfully and happily. Even the official witnesses and the newspaper reporters were amazed. They said they couldn't understand how anyone could go and sit in the electric chair actually beaming with happiness."

His last words to Father O'Leary were, "Father, I will remember you. And whenever you have a request, ask me, and I will ask Her."

Two months later, the white man, who had hated Claude, was to be executed. Father O'Leary said, "This man was the filthiest, most immoral person I had ever come across." His hatred for God, for everything spiritual," said the priest, "defied description."

Just before his execution, the county doctor pleaded with this man to at least kneel down and say the Our Father before the sheriff would come for him.

The prisoner spat in the doctor's face.

When he was strapped into the electric chair, the sheriff said to him, "If you have something to say, say it now."

The condemned man started to blaspheme.

All of a sudden the condemned man stopped, and his eyes became fixed on the corner of the room, and his face turned to one of absolute horror.

He screamed.

Turning to the sheriff, he then said, "Sheriff, get me a priest!"

Now, Father O'Leary had been in the room because the law required a clergyman to be present at executions. The priest, however, had hidden himself behind some reporters because the condemned man had threatened to curse God if he saw a clergyman at all.

Father O'Leary immediately went to the condemned man. The room was cleared of everyone else, and the priest heard the man's confession. The man said he had been a Catholic, but turned away from his religion when he was 18 because of his immoral life.

When everyone returned to the room, the sheriff asked the priest, "What made him change his mind?"

"I don't know " said Father O'Leary, "I didn't ask him."

The sheriff said, "Well, I'll never sleep if I don't."

The Sheriff turned to the condemned man and asked, "Son, what changed your mind?"

The prisoner responded, "Remember that black man ­ Claude - who I hated so much? Well he's standing there [he pointed], over in that corner. And behind him with one hand on each shoulder is the Blessed Mother. And Claude said to me, 'I offered my death in union with Christ on the Cross for your salvation. She has obtained for you this gift, to see your place in Hell if you do not repent.' I was shown my place in Hell, and that's when I screamed."

consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22)

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
HoD,

Luv ya, but that's a ghost story. nsns

Hi all,

It's not often that I will agree with Deep. But, this time I do have to agree; not that it was a ghost, but, if the story was not a total fabrication, a fiction -- it was from the spirit world.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Amen_Animated
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
HoD,

Luv ya, but that's a ghost story. nsns

Hi all,

It's not often that I will agree with Deep. But, this time I do have to agree; not that it was a ghost, but, if the story was not a total fabrication, a fiction -- it was from the spirit world.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


bill,

A person can only fake it to a certain point, can only lie to a point, can only act the part
for so long a period of time. It's a true story, a lot like the people in the book
"Kibeho" we talked about not long ago.
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
So Bill, do you think this man was saved?

Hi O,

No, I think it was a nice job of fictional writing -- a nice story which sells the Roman Catholic doctrine of Mariology.

Do I believe in angelic appearances? Yes, both heavenly angelic beings and demonic spirits. I believe I have personally experienced both. I know I have experienced demonic spirits.

But, a nice story.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Friends_TiggerToo_Bear_Piggy_On-Limb-TEXT
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
I supposed if the man had asked to see a Baptist preacher, Bill would believe the story then.

Hi B,

As I said, spirits do appear to humans. Heavenly angels to minister to man (Hebrews 1:14, "Are they [angels] not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?") -- and demonic spirits, or fallen angels, to confuse and destroy man.

Could an angel have appeared to this man? Yes, absolutely. We are told in Hebrews 13:2, "Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it."

So, yes, an angelic being could have appeared to this man in the story. However, except for this priest's fictional story -- there is no evidence that it was the Virgin Mary. The Bible does tell us that angelic spirits can visit us -- and the Bible gives examples of this happening (Abraham is visited by angels in Genesis 18).

Yet, no where in the Bible do we find the Virgin Mary visiting anyone -- at any time. Why? Because she is just another dead mortal human. She is not an angelic being; therefore she is still in heaven waiting for the Rapture when we will all be given our glorified bodies; Mary included.

Angels will appear to anyone, regardless of their church affiliation. However, haven't you ever wondered why the Mary apparitions ONLY appear to Roman Catholics?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 0_-_CROSS-BIBLE_SAID-IT-1c
quote:
However, haven't you ever wondered why the Mary apparitions ONLY appear to Roman Catholics?



3,000 people in Egypt - protestants, Jews, Muslims - claim they say the Virgin Mary in 1968.

Please quick saying that... I've already shown you this... I'm not asking you to believe she appeared, I'm trying to telling you, AGAIN, that Catholics are NOT the only ones that claim to see her.
Last edited by House of David
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Bill,
Since you keep talking to me, I'll forgo my promise and talk back to you. Maybe the Catholics believe any female apparition they see is Mary while you would call it an Angel?

Hi B,

That could be true. But, the key word is BELIEVE, i.e., because they want to BELIEVE it is Mary -- in their minds it becomes Mary.

But, don't you have to wonder which group of "spirits" this apparition comes from? Could it be a demonic deception? Just a thought.

I once thought my maternal grandfather was contacting me. But, once I became a Christian, I realized that it was a demonic spirit -- brought on because I was involved in the paranormal.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Friends_TiggerToo_Bear_Piggy_On-Limb-TEXT
And you want to BELIEVE it is not. Same thing.
You would prefer for the man to go to Hell than believe he saw the Virgin Mother and was saved.

So you thought you had a demonic spirit contact you?

And you have been attacked by gays?

And Catholics lied to you for 20 years and you never saw through it?


What kind of karma do you give out Bill?
Hi B,

You tell me, "And you want to BELIEVE it is not. Same thing. You would prefer for the man to go to Hell than believe he saw the Virgin Mother and was saved."

No, my best guess is that the story is a bit of Creative Writing by the priest.

Then, you say, "So you thought you had a demonic spirit contact you?"

Yes, I have experienced demonic spirits. Once, masquerading as my maternal grandfather -- and being involved in the New Age/paranormal world at that time -- I believed it. But, once I became a Christian believer; it was apparent to me that this was only a trick of Satan's demonic spirits -- for no one can return from the dead to contact mortals. We are told this in Luke 16.

Another time, after I was a Christian, I had a telephone call from a friend's irate mother-in-law who was deeply entrenched in psychics and the New Age dark spirits. After talking with this woman for a few minutes; I could sense many evil, demonic spirits around me -- just from talking with her on the telephone. But, I was not alarmed, for the spirits of darkness cannot harm a Christian believer. They can harass us; but, they cannot possess us nor harm us. We have the Holy Spirit as a shield against the spirits of darkness.

Next, you tell me, "And you have been attacked by gays?"

No, never attacked. But, yes, I have many times had homosexuals approach me, trying to score. Yet, you Liberals tell us that homosexuals do not do this; that they just stay with their own and do not bother non-homosexuals.

Gee, I guess all those gays hanging around Lowry Air Base in Denver, or the one who slithered into the shower room on Osan Air Base in Korea, or the homosexual high school principal in Alabama, and all the other gays I have met over the years -- never got the message that they are not supposed to be predators. Too bad they did not have your Liberal knowledge before they went out hitting on young guys.

And, these experiences did not happen to just me. I had many friends in the Air Force, and since, who have had the same experiences -- homosexuals on the prowl, hitting on the young guys.

B, my Friend, you obviously have lived a very sheltered life -- or you have closed your eyes to what is happening around you. All those men who came forward and it was proven that homosexual priests molested them -- were these priest not acting as predators? And, did they not negatively affect the lives of many, many young boys?

It is not just priests in the Roman Catholic church. This happens much more often than people realize in our public schools, in our recreation centers, and in many other places where young boys and girls are under the supervision of an older person -- who just happens to be homosexual.

It just happened that the Roman Catholic church, by forcing young men to be celibate, created a situation where young men entering and in the priesthood find other outlets for their sexual drives -- and, apparently, this often lead to homosexuality.

Yes, many homosexuals are aggressive and do become sexual predators -- seeking out naive young people as their sexual targets.

Then, you tell me, "And Catholics lied to you for 20 years and you never saw through it?"

No, I lied to myself -- or, at least I was not being honest with myself -- when I chose to spend twenty years in the Roman Catholic church. Since I was not, at that time, a Christian -- and I had no indepth knowledge of the Bible, God's Word -- I could not recognize the many false doctrines being taught in the Roman Catholic church.

At the time, the Roman Catholic church gave me what I needed. As a young boy, I went from living in my mother's home -- to years in the Air Force, my new protector and mother figure -- and when I was out of the Air Force, living in California alone -- I sought another "mother figure" -- and the Roman Catholic church fit that need perfectly.

It was bigger than life; it was an authority figure; it was a protector; it was a place to run to when seeking comfort. Yes, it was a new "mother figure" for a young man tossed into the worldly California society. And, it allowed me to do as I wanted. I could party-hearty all week; then go to mass on Sunday -- and all was well.

But, then, even with all of that, all of the Catechism lessons, all the masses -- after twenty years, I began to feel guilty about my lifestyle, my party-hearty world -- and going to mass on Sundays became a time of guilt. So, I had a choice: quit my party life -- or quit the Roman Catholic church. Well, since I was not really a Christian believer -- that was an easy choice. Hello, world!

Thank God, many years later, He sent a Filipino Baptist pastor into my life -- and for the first time I realized what it meant to be a Christian believer. So, in 1987, I gave my heart to Jesus Christ. And, my life has not been the same since. Praise God!

Finally, you tell me, "What kind of karma do you give out Bill?"

Well, B, since "karma" is only found in your New Age religion -- and not in the Christian faith; I will leave the "karma" to you. My ministry is to share the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, with the world (Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15). So, I will share His Word -- and leave sharing "karma" to your New Age religion.

But, in closing, I really do want to ask you this question again. "Why have you become Don Quixote, flailing at windmills, in defense of the Roman Catholic teachings?"

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Friends_TiggerToo_Bear_Piggy_On-Limb-TEXT
quote:
But, in closing, I really do want to ask you this question again. "Why have you become Don Quixote, flailing at windmills, in defense of the Roman Catholic teachings?"


Thank you, B50 for your intelligent and unbiased defense of Bill's attacks against our Faith.
Bill- B50 is Christian, and can see through your contempt for ANYTHING Catholic.
What does that tell you??

" It just happened that the Roman Catholic church, by forcing young men to be celibate, created a situation where young men entering and in the priesthood find other outlets for their sexual drives -- and, apparently, this often lead to homosexuality. "

The Catholic Church does not FORCE young men to do anything, Bill Gray. Those men CHOOSE the priesthood. NObody is forced into the priesthood.
If you were "forced" into celibacy, what would you do? Have an affair with a woman, or experiment with homosexuality?!??!? Would you become a pedophile if there were no women around?
Come ON, man.
Bill,
There were many witnesses to the account, not just the priest. You are denying the account because it rubs your Baptist hide raw.

You were a child in the 1940's in Sheffield. Gays were not even seen or heard from. I think you made those incidents up or you 'misinterpreted' the situation.

Any situation with children in close quarters can cause sexual molestation. Schools, churches, clubs, camps. To claim homosexuals become predators is just stupid Bill.

If you lied to yourself for 20 years, are you now telling yourself what you want to hear?
You claim the priests never talked about the Bible. Could you not read it for yourself?

You wanted to be told what to do, and then you decided you didn't like the rules. After being in the Air Force, you still needed a 'mother' figure to take care of you? Have you ever considered you may have emotional problems?

As for karma, you can call it anything you want to. Do you give off the aura of gullibility? Are you broadcasting insecurity? Do you have the need to be needed?
Many times I get a 'feeling' about someone, good or bad. Call it anything you want to. It all goes back to how you perceive that other person's character

You even went shopping for a wife that you knew you could control and manipulate into what you wanted.

And to tell you again, I don't practice New Age, Wiccan, or Baptist. I don't even know where you got that Baptist one. Having you as an example of a Baptist makes my skin crawl.

But Bill, you will continue to believe what you have already told yourself is the truth, evidence to the contrary be darned.

Seems like you have many more issues than just your religious mindset. I do pray that some day you really will open your eyes to the truth.
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
Thank you, B50 for your intelligent and unbiased defense of Bill's attacks against our Faith.
Bill- B50 is Christian, and can see through your contempt for ANYTHING Catholic.
What does that tell you??

You're welcome VP. I really don't understand how one denomination can condemn another. That's basically condemning the Bible itself.
If the Bible was so easy and straight forward to 'interpret', we would not have 1000's of denominations and splits.
If you believe in God, Jesus, Heaven and Hell, what is the problem?

Back to the story, it is a true miracle.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
Thank you, B50 for your intelligent and unbiased defense of Bill's attacks against our Faith.
Bill- B50 is Christian, and can see through your contempt for ANYTHING Catholic.
What does that tell you??

You're welcome VP. I really don't understand how one denomination can condemn another. That's basically condemning the Bible itself.
If the Bible was so easy and straight forward to 'interpret', we would not have 1000's of denominations and splits.
If you believe in God, Jesus, Heaven and Hell, what is the problem?

Back to the story, it is a true miracle.


b50,

It's a true story,too many non religious witnesses. They still talk about it. Why was it allowed
to happen? I wonder how many people it might have turned toward God.

"If you believe in God, Jesus, Heaven and Hell, what is the problem?"

In a word Pride, Hate and Fear.
Hi David,

Just one question. Did you find this story in "Chicken Soup For The Soul" -- or is the Vatican now publishing its own version of "Chicken Soup"? Just curious.

And, I still have the question, if the story is not "Chicken Soup" fiction -- how can anyone say that the angel in the story is Mary. In the story, the man only mentions "a lady."

An angel, heavenly or demonic, could take on any image it wants -- to encourage or to deceive. Something to think about.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Sylvester-Cat-2_TEXT
quote:
An angel, heavenly or demonic, could take on any image it wants -- to encourage or to deceive


You will say just about anything to shoot down anything to do with Mary, won't you?!?

Look at the end result of this story, Bill. How many men went to Jesus? Who do you think this woman was recruiting for?!?!
Bill, If you actually cared at all about the man's soul, you would be glad he believed in some spirit and was accepting God in his life.
Aren't you the one yelling salvation is simply believing?

No works required, just belief and acceptance?

Hypocritical Bill.

Also, if you can managed to type the guy's name into the web, you will find the story is verified by many different sources. Is that too hard for you?
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
quote:
An angel, heavenly or demonic, could take on any image it wants -- to encourage or to deceive


You will say just about anything to shoot down anything to do with Mary, won't you?!?

Look at the end result of this story, Bill. How many men went to Jesus? Who do you think this woman was recruiting for?!?!


vp,

You know how with time stories change, it was just reported by N.P.R.

billgray bites themax.
quote:
Originally posted by Kraven:
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
[QUOTE]An angel, heavenly or demonic, could take on any image it wants -- to encourage or to deceive


You will say just about anything to shoot down anything to do with Mary, won't you?!?

Look at the end result of this story, Bill. How many men went to Jesus? Who do you think this woman was recruiting for?!?!


lee,

One very important point you have to remember is Satan will never do anything or say anything
that will promote the name of God. Satan can't give credit to God for whatever reason.

It's against satan's will to deceive at his own expence. Ask him to say the "Glory Be To The Father"
He will never do anything like that.

God would never allow Satan to even be around his mother in thr first place.
quote:
God would never allow Satan to even be around his mother in thr first place.


Most definetly! I have no doubt "who" the "angel" was and is in this story.
But those who refute it are the same people who will deny that Mary is the Mother of God...so that pretty much says it all.

Glory Be to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. World without end. Amen!
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
quote:
Originally posted by Kraven:
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
[QUOTE]An angel, heavenly or demonic, could take on any image it wants -- to encourage or to deceive

You will say just about anything to shoot down anything to do with Mary, won't you?!? Look at the end result of this story, Bill. How many men went to Jesus? Who do you think this woman was recruiting for?!?!

lee,

One very important point you have to remember is Satan will never do anything or say anything
that will promote the name of God. Satan can't give credit to God for whatever reason.

It's against satan's will to deceive at his own expence. Ask him to say the "Glory Be To The Father" He will never do anything like that.

God would never allow Satan to even be around his mother in thr first place.

Hi VP and Vic,

I never said that Satan was around Mary. After all, Mary is safely living in heaven right now -- like all the saints, i.e., Christian believers -- waiting for her glorified body at the Rapture.

However, a demonic spirit can assume many different disguises -- even that of a woman resembling Mary.

Would he say things to glorify God? No, but, like many television preachers -- he can talk so close to the truth that many folks are lured into believing he is telling the truth. And, all the while, he is luring folks away from God.

And, as I said, I believe this priest was just doing good creative story telling.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Charlie-Brown_Snoopy-2_CLOUDS_IN-WITH
quote:
After all, Mary is safely living in heaven right now -- like all the saints, i.e., Christian believers -- waiting for her glorified body at the Rapture.


Well...that is your position.
But not mine. And not the majority of the world.
I believe that Mary was ASSUMED into Heaven, and sits with her Son as Queen of Heaven and Earth.
We have discussed the biblical basis for the Assumption, and I don't care for a "round 2", but Bill, when you post things as "fact", that are really "opinion", you just may mislead folks.
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
quote:
After all, Mary is safely living in heaven right now -- like all the saints, i.e., Christian believers -- waiting for her glorified body at the Rapture.

Well...that is your position. But not mine. And not the majority of the world. I believe that Mary was ASSUMED into Heaven, and sits with her Son as Queen of Heaven and Earth.
We have discussed the biblical basis for the Assumption, and I don't care for a "round 2", but Bill, when you post things as "fact", that are really "opinion", you just may mislead folks.

Hi VP,

No, my Friend, that is the Biblical view. There is absolutely NO BIBLICAL SUPPORT for anything about Mary -- but, that she was the woman chosen to give birth to the Human Nature of Jesus Christ -- and, after His resurrection -- virtually walked off the pages into oblivion; not again mentioned in the Bible.

Mary was a blessed, holy young lady. God used her and blessed her by allowing her to birth the Human Jesus. I am sure that Jesus loved her as we all love our earthly mothers. But, did He not say, when told she was waiting to see Him, "Who is My mother?" Now, does that sound like He was crowning her as Queen of Heaven? Not to me.

According to the Bible, Mary, along with all Christian believers who have died -- are in heaven waiting for the Rapture when we all will receive our immortal bodies.

There is NO Biblical support for any other belief.

Of course, you can, as you alway do -- make an emotional declaration crowning her as you wish. But, that is all it is -- an emotional reaction. You have shown NO Biblical proof of anything else.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 0_-_CROSS-BIBLE_SOLA-FEDE_Outline
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
"Who is My mother?"

That would be one of those metaphors you talked about Bill. But of course, only when it suits your purpose. He also said who are my brothers?

Hi B,

In a sense, you are right. Yet, He was obviously using this to teach a lesson -- that God always comes first in our lives. And, I believe He was teaching that Mary was an ordinary woman and should not be worshiped.

Have you ever wondered why the Ark of the Covenant and Noah's ark have never been found -- or why no one knows where Moses was buried? Because God knows that man has a tendency to worship created things and beings -- instead of the Creator.

He was telling us that Mary should not be worshiped just because she was chosen to be His earthly birth mother -- just as the Ark of the Covenant, Noah's ark, and Moses are not to be worshiped.

And, you are right that Jesus Christ acknowledged that He had earthly brothers -- siblings. But, they were not to be worshiped either.

Only Jesus Christ, God, is to be worshiped.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 0_-_CROSS-BIBLE_SAID-IT-1c

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×