WHAT has the Alabama Education Association done to warrant these ATTACKS?

Teachers have done nothing to warrent these attacks! AEA is the ONLY "union" and I use that term loosely its not a union but an association in the state of alabama that they targeted. Every other union can have their dues payroll deducted. They are scared of the political power aea has. If it wasnt for aea teachers would be in worse shape than they are in now. This is unfair and I hope these officials get voted out! And while we are on the subject, we need some voting out on the local level too. People need to be very careful who they vote for as far as superintentent and board members. Lauderdale County has THE most political board and superintentent around. The REAL board meeting is the meeting before the meeting. It doesnt matter who is more qualified for a job, who the principal wants or whatever, its what the superintentent wants, who he is kin to or who he or a a board member owes a favor to. People need to stand up, stop believing everything they are told and research and find out the truth...Mr. Valentine was quoted as saying he was the lowest paid in the state...A LIE..look it up...there are 29 pd less than him and its based on how many schools you are over and students involved. So before you believe everything that is told to you by a politician, find out the truth yourself. Stand up for your family's interest and I dearly hope the education of your child is one of them. Teachers do not go into teaching for the money. Thats a joke. They go into teaching because the love they have for YOUR children. Back them up when they need you!

The real problem is that the AEA is a Union and we have a Republican led state now.
It is the stated agenda of the Republican party nation wide to bust the unions.
As we speak, (or write on this forum) , the governor and state congress in the state of Wisconsin has a union-busting bill . The people are rallieing in the streets and Democratic senators have left the state so that a quarm cannon exist for the vote. *BTW, where is the news paper or TV news not reporting on this, last report I heard was that there were 35999 citizens protesting in the streets of Madison, and our right-wing newspaper says not a word.
The gov of Ohio is waiting in the wings to do the same in Ohio, as he has stated, and even went so far as to show his distain for state workers by referring to a police officer as an idiot, 3 times in one meeting, for which he later apologized.
The gov of NJ is also waging war on Unions , as is the gov of Tn, and now it is apparently coming to Al.

You folks wanted Republican rule, well now you got it- in the words of John Bohener-"so be it".

Noted public union opponent stated:

To the National Federation of Federal Employees

"... Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations ... The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for ... officials ... to bind the employer ... The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives ...

"Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people ... This obligation is paramount ... A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent ... to prevent or obstruct ... Government ... Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government ... is unthinkable and intolerable."

1937, noted union buster -- FDR

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:
The real problem is that the AEA is a Union and we have a Republican led state now.
It is the stated agenda of the Republican party nation wide to bust the unions.
As we speak, (or write on this forum) , the governor and state congress in the state of Wisconsin has a union-busting bill . The people are rallieing in the streets and Democratic senators have left the state so that a quarm cannon exist for the vote. *BTW, where is the news paper or TV news not reporting on this, last report I heard was that there were 35999 citizens protesting in the streets of Madison, and our right-wing newspaper says not a word.
The gov of Ohio is waiting in the wings to do the same in Ohio, as he has stated, and even went so far as to show his distain for state workers by referring to a police officer as an idiot, 3 times in one meeting, for which he later apologized.
The gov of NJ is also waging war on Unions , as is the gov of Tn, and now it is apparently coming to Al.

You folks wanted Republican rule, well now you got it- in the words of John Bohener-"so be it".

Respectfully seeweed,
here is the problem with this argument. All of these Unions, particularly those with defined pension plans, which most of these state unions have, are not properly funded and driving the states to bankruptcy. In California we have state employees drawing 6 figure salaries, while the state coffers are running on empty. Alabama's is no different. In the Wisconsin fiasco, the governor when elected told the Union that they had a choice, they could either lose some of their benefits or lose some of the teachers. They chose to pay more for insurance and have to support some of their retirement, while there was no lose in the workforce. Now that those rules are in place, they are complaining and calling in sick. If the governor would pull a ATC-Reagan move, fire the teachers who are causing the work stoppage, and give those jobs to freshly graduated teachers, it would serve them right.
The problem in Alabama is that Paul Hubbert has kept his claws in the legislators for too long. He pushed his weight around, and told them what they could and could not do. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and now the rooster has come home. Many of these legislators are finding that they have plenty of people on their side who are tired of hearing the call for more taxes and more money for the AEA. The teachers are paid well when you consider the retirement plans and health insurance benfits which they have, as well as the work schedule. I am sure there are many who will happily take those jobs if they are willing to give them up.
I for one do not think that we should be paying someone in Montgomery to collect and then forward the dues collected for the AEA, or any other union. If we want fiscal responsibility from our government it should be fairly distributed and implemented.

quote:

Originally posted by teyates:

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:
The real problem is that the AEA is a Union and we have a Republican led state now.
It is the stated agenda of the Republican party nation wide to bust the unions.
As we speak, (or write on this forum) , the governor and state congress in the state of Wisconsin has a union-busting bill . The people are rallieing in the streets and Democratic senators have left the state so that a quarm cannon exist for the vote. *BTW, where is the news paper or TV news not reporting on this, last report I heard was that there were 35999 citizens protesting in the streets of Madison, and our right-wing newspaper says not a word.
The gov of Ohio is waiting in the wings to do the same in Ohio, as he has stated, and even went so far as to show his distain for state workers by referring to a police officer as an idiot, 3 times in one meeting, for which he later apologized.
The gov of NJ is also waging war on Unions , as is the gov of Tn, and now it is apparently coming to Al.

You folks wanted Republican rule, well now you got it- in the words of John Bohener-"so be it".

Respectfully seeweed,
here is the problem with this argument. All of these Unions, particularly those with defined pension plans, which most of these state unions have, are not properly funded and driving the states to bankruptcy. In California we have state employees drawing 6 figure salaries, while the state coffers are running on empty. Alabama's is no different. In the Wisconsin fiasco, the governor when elected told the Union that they had a choice, they could either lose some of their benefits or lose some of the teachers. They chose to pay more for insurance and have to support some of their retirement, while there was no lose in the workforce. Now that those rules are in place, they are complaining and calling in sick. If the governor would pull a ATC-Reagan move, fire the teachers who are causing the work stoppage, and give those jobs to freshly graduated teachers, it would serve them right.
The problem in Alabama is that Paul Hubbert has kept his claws in the legislators for too long. He pushed his weight around, and told them what they could and could not do. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and now the rooster has come home. Many of these legislators are finding that they have plenty of people on their side who are tired of hearing the call for more taxes and more money for the AEA. The teachers are paid well when you consider the retirement plans and health insurance benfits which they have, as well as the work schedule. I am sure there are many who will happily take those jobs if they are willing to give them up.
I for one do not think that we should be paying someone in Montgomery to collect and then forward the dues collected for the AEA, or any other union. If we want fiscal responsibility from our government it should be fairly distributed and implemented.

Well said. The state or even a company that is dealing with a union is under no obligation to payroll deduct and forward dues. This is usually a part of the contract negotiation, and the union will bend a lot to get agreement to this provision.

First of all, AEA is the only "union" in the state of alabama being targeted. Every other union can have their dues payroll deducted. Secondly we are not considered a union but an association. WE the so called well paid teachers pay the dues for this. I challenge any of you that think teachers are paid well to come step in our shoes for one week. We work 187 days and are "laid off" the rest of the year, we do not get paid for the time we do not work. For a job that requires a degree we are at the bottom of the totem pole in pay. And as far as insurance and retirement? Thats a joke. Our insurance goes up every year without as much as a cost of living raise so we are making less every year. We use our OWN money to buy classroom supplies so that YOUR children can have a quality education. Yes our retirement has been good in the past. But if you look right now at the bills waiting to be passed, they want to take the one thing away from teachers that we use to look forward to. #1 want all teachers to work till they are 60 no matter how many years teaching they have in. #2 no more retirement-401k....and you ask why we need AEA fighting for our rights? Please get your facts straight before you go judging teachers. Teachers do NOT go into this profession for he money, thats a joke.They go into it for the kids.

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:
First of all, AEA is the only "union" in the state of alabama being targeted. Every other union can have their dues payroll deducted. Secondly we are not considered a union but an association. WE the so called well paid teachers pay the dues for this. I challenge any of you that think teachers are paid well to come step in our shoes for one week. We work 187 days and are "laid off" the rest of the year, we do not get paid for the time we do not work. For a job that requires a degree we are at the bottom of the totem pole in pay. And as far as insurance and retirement? Thats a joke. Our insurance goes up every year without as much as a cost of living raise so we are making less every year. We use our OWN money to buy classroom supplies so that YOUR children can have a quality education. Yes our retirement has been good in the past. But if you look right now at the bills waiting to be passed, they want to take the one thing away from teachers that we use to look forward to. #1 want all teachers to work till they are 60 no matter how many years teaching they have in. #2 no more retirement-401k....and you ask why we need AEA fighting for our rights? Please get your facts straight before you go judging teachers. Teachers do NOT go into this profession for he money, thats a joke.They go into it for the kids.

I trust that you do not teach English. beterU, where are you? High school students are kept from graduating because of grammar and composition errors which you exhibit. Be careful when you ask for that raise! You are shooting yourself in the foot! (Edited for typo)

Teachers are lucky that their compensation isn't linked to the results they achieve.

Call it what you want but at the end of the day the AEA is a public employee union.

In 2010 the school employees had the first increase in their health insurance premiums in 27 YEARS. The premium for single coverage went from $2 to $15 per month. The cost of family coverage went from $132 to $162 per month.

According to the one of the local county boards website the basic starting salary for a teacher is $36,145 based on a 187 day contract.

When you discuss salary you can't ignore the value of your benefit package.
I would do handstands if I only had to pay $15/mo for single coverage health ins. instead of the $800+ I currently pay.

Sorry, I can't have much sympathy for the teachers. They are well compensated for their job and appear to have started to believe the propoganda put out by their own assoc./union.

AEA has been a power player in Montgomery for decades. It was on the losing side this past election cycle so it is paying the price. That is called politics. Paul Hubbert was never shy about rewarding friends and punishing enemies.

quote:

Originally posted by tigrtrek:
AEA has been a power player in Montgomery for decades. It was on the losing side this past election cycle so it is paying the price. That is called politics. Paul Hubbert was never shy about rewarding friends and punishing enemies.

Well said.

They would have totally lost out if Bryne had won the nomination and election, but in a politically astute move, advanced Bentley into the Governor's office, I suspect his empty head is still spinning.

They're down, but not nearly out, Bentley owes them big time.

quote:

Originally posted by Opie Cunningham:

quote:

Originally posted by tigrtrek:
AEA has been a power player in Montgomery for decades. It was on the losing side this past election cycle so it is paying the price. That is called politics. Paul Hubbert was never shy about rewarding friends and punishing enemies.

Well said.

They would have totally lost out if Bryne had won the nomination and election, but in a politically astute move, advanced Bentley into the Governor's office, I suspect his empty head is still spinning.

They're down, but not nearly out, Bentley owes them big time.

Pretty good for someone from Erie, Pa. Then again I read over there on the TNF where you and some chic that must be stuck in the 60's are ready to protest . Guess there check did not come in this month or something.

quote:

Originally posted by Opie Cunningham:
Teachers are lucky that their compensation isn't linked to the results they achieve.

Too bad students' grades are, often, not linked to their performance

"WHAT has the Alabama Education Association done to warrant these ATTACKS?" I seriously cannot believe anyone can ask this question and genuinely not already know the answer...wow! It seems all I am hearing lately is teachers complaining about their jobs. They know when they go into the profession how much they will make and the benefits associated with the career choice. It is truly comedic when claims are made about not being paid well, please don’t forget this is Alabama…if an individual is making $30,000 + (which teachers do, several I know make a quite bit more) they are making a decent living. I did state decent, not exceptional or great but good enough. Also, don’t forget to include the worth of the benefits. I am fully aware that there is not enough money for our schools right now. It is hard for everyone including the parents, as we are asked to donate a lot. I know not all contribute to the cause but many of us do. This war is waged on the AEA, not the teachers! I’m not sure if I were a teacher if I would be associated with such a “professional organization,” especially now that people are furious with them.
As far as the AEA is concerned, I hope they lose their political influence. They are/were basically machines controlling lawmakers. They deserve to be knocked off their pedestal. They are corrupt, sneaky, and underhanded, about the lowest of the low around here. It pretty much seems like the only people who “support” the AEA, to no surprise, are teachers. They may be looking out for your best interest, but it comes as a cost to the rest of us and that doesn’t work for me. The AEA and anyone connected to it whatsoever will get no sympathy from me. Judging from many comments I have read lately, many others share my view. I would love to hear more about the boe members mentioned earlier.

first of all, id really appreciate it if you would refrain from attacking teachers. Your so called no insurance cost raise in 27 years is not correct AT ALL.... get your facts straight.. and as far as comparing jobs with degrees here is the national average...
AT THE 50TH PERCENTILE WHICH MEANS AVERAGE NOT NEW YORK OR CALIFORNIA, IT INCLUDES ALL STATES AND AVERAGES IT OUT!


Country: United States
Median Salary by Degree/Major SubjectDegree/Major Subject National Salary Data (?XAll compensation data shown are the gross, national median (50th percentile). Pay can vary greatly by location. To view local data, take the PayScale survey.) $0 $30K $60K $90K
Bachelor of Arts (BA/AB) $56,880
Master of Business Administration (MBA) $83,600
Bachelor of Science (BS) $65,688 (1ST STEP REQUIRED TO BE A TEACHER)
Bachelor of Science (BS/BSc/SB), Accounting $58,070
Bachelor of Science (BS/BSc/SB), Computer Science (CS) $74,505
Bachelor of Science (BS/BSc/SB), Business Management $56,122
Bachelor of Science (BS/BSc/SB), Business Administration $55,362
Country: United States | Currency: USD | Updated: 14 Feb 2011 | Individuals Reporting: 101,743

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TEACHERS WITH A MASTERS DEGREE DO NOT MAKE THIS.. SO PLEASE STOP WITH HOW WONDERFUL TEACHERS HAVE IT...DONT JUDGE SOMEONE UNTIL YOU WALK A MILE IN OUR SHOES... MOST TEACHERS HAVE TO WORK A SECOND JOB JUST TO MAKE IT...

AND AS FAR AS TENOR LAWS YES THERE ARE SOME BAD TEACHERS BUT THERE ARE FAR MORE GREAT TEACHERS WHO GO THE EXTRA MILE FOR YOUR CHILDREN. THIS LAW PROTECTS THEM. LIKE I SAID IN LAUDERDALE COUNTY OUR BOARD MEMBERS AND SUPERINTENDENT ARE ELECTED NOT APPOINTED...VERY POLITICAL...TOO MANY TIMES THE JOBS ARE NOT GIVEN TO THE MOST QUALIFIED BUT WHOS NEICE JUST GRADUATED OR WHO OWES WHO A FAVOR..IT WOULD BE THE SAME WTH THE FIRING, THEY WOULD GET RID OF WHOEVER THEY WANTED TO PUT SOMEONE THEY OWED A FAVOR IN THAT POSITION.. YOU HAVE NO IDEA...

quote:

Originally posted by earthmomma:

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:
First of all, AEA is the only "union" in the state of alabama being targeted. Every other union can have their dues payroll deducted. Secondly we are not considered a union but an association. WE the so called well paid teachers pay the dues for this. I challenge any of you that think teachers are paid well to come step in our shoes for one week. We work 187 days and are "laid off" the rest of the year, we do not get paid for the time we do not work. For a job that requires a degree we are at the bottom of the totem pole in pay. And as far as insurance and retirement? Thats a joke. Our insurance goes up every year without as much as a cost of living raise so we are making less every year. We use our OWN money to buy classroom supplies so that YOUR children can have a quality education. Yes our retirement has been good in the past. But if you look right now at the bills waiting to be passed, they want to take the one thing away from teachers that we use to look forward to. #1 want all teachers to work till they are 60 no matter how many years teaching they have in. #2 no more retirement-401k....and you ask why we need AEA fighting for our rights? Please get your facts straight before you go judging teachers. Teachers do NOT go into this profession for he money, thats a joke.They go into it for the kids.

I trust that you do not teach English. beterU, where are you? High school students are kept from graduating because of grammar and composition errors which you exhibit. Be careful when you ask for that raise! You are shooting yourself in the foot! (Edited for typo)

ITS CALLED TYPOS AND WHEN IM UPSET I TYPE FAST... SO SORRY FOR THESE MISTAKES...IM SURE YOU NEVER MAKE ANY..

The errors are not typos. They are subject/verb agreements, run together sentences, and homonym errors. As a retired teacher, I find it terribly hard to defend you. Again, I trust you do not teach English. I make lots of typos and edit every post. Sometimes I miss one. Your problems are in compostion, grammar, and semantics. I AM SORRY YOU HAVE TO WORK ONE SATURDAY TO FULFILL YOUR CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS!

I will add this to the talk about teachers salaries.
It is not just teachers, but people in the entire educational business.
About 26 years ago, I applied for a job at Memphis State Univ (now Univ of Memp) as director of a department. Although they did give credit for past jobs, they preferred someone with a PHD in that field.
And, for that, they would pay "up to $20,000 a year" which was less than half what I was currently making. ( I guess they know what their damm PHD was worth).
Point here is that the educational business (yes I said business) requires a lot of education, but in general does not pay very well.
The salary $36000 has been bantered around here like it is some kind of big money, but it most certainly is not.

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:
I will add this to the talk about teachers salaries.
It is not just teachers, but people in the entire educational business.
About 26 years ago, I applied for a job at Memphis State Univ (now Univ of Memp) as director of a department. Although they did give credit for past jobs, they preferred someone with a PHD in that field.
And, for that, they would pay "up to $20,000 a year" which was less than half what I was currently making. ( I guess they know what their damm PHD was worth).
Point here is that the educational business (yes I said business) requires a lot of education, but in general does not pay very well.
The salary $36000 has been bantered around here like it is some kind of big money, but it most certainly is not.

Well said

As someone originally from Kentucky, wondering, can you tell me why the students in Alabama are "disoriented?"

And Bamagirl34, you do know median is not average, don't you?

Sheesh, these are your kids' teachers, folks!

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:
The salary $36000 has been bantered around here like it is some kind of big money, but it most certainly is not.

I wouldn't say it was "bantered around here". I simply offered it as an example of what a local districts starting salary is for someone with no experience and meets the minimum educational requirement to be a teacher.

While I agree that it isn't big money it isn't bad for someone who meets the min. requirements with no experience. According to the US Census Bureau the 2008 median household income in Lauderdale County was $38,592

quote:

Your so called no insurance cost raise in 27 years is not correct AT ALL.... get your facts straight...

http://www.decaturdaily.com/st...nce-rates-rise,59594

http://blog.al.com/breaking/20...ion_employees_t.html

http://blog.al.com/times-views...olling_health_c.html

http://www.gadsdentimes.com/ar...00512/NEWS/100519965

It has become fashionable recently to slander the teaching profession....this is a SAD day! Actually, I am saddened our society has come to this. We have a crisis in our country and must blame someone other than ourselves. Surely the poor classroom performance by students has nothing to do with absent parents, many times both working in an attempt to feed their families. Certainly there is no link with the drug problem in the United States! And yes....the filth our children see on TV, at movie theaters etc.....We are all at fault, but do not wish to accept responsibility for our weaknesses. WE ALL need to do a better job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND .....Thanks for your info bamagirl34!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Opie Cunningham:
Teachers are lucky that their compensation isn't linked to the results they achieve.

Got to agree to that one.

quote:

Originally posted by Wondering??:
It has become fashionable recently to slander the teaching profession....this is a SAD day! Actually, I am saddened our society has come to this. We have a crisis in our country and must blame someone other than ourselves. Surely the poor classroom performance by students has nothing to do with absent parents, many times both working in an attempt to feed their families. Certainly there is no link with the drug problem in the United States! And yes....the filth our children see on TV, at movie theaters etc.....We are all at fault, but do not wish to accept responsibility for our weaknesses. WE ALL need to do a better job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's appropriate to question the teaching profession when our youth graduate without core reading, writing and arithmetic skills.

It's predictable to watch teachers blame parents.

Whatever is being taught in the schools of education isn't working. Yet the sense of entitlement among "educators" is stronger than ever.

Weird, ain't it?

quote:

Originally posted by Wondering??:
It has become fashionable recently to slander the teaching profession....this is a SAD day! Actually, I am saddened our society has come to this. We have a crisis in our country and must blame someone other than ourselves. Surely the poor classroom performance by students has nothing to do with absent parents, many times both working in an attempt to feed their families. Certainly there is no link with the drug problem in the United States! And yes....the filth our children see on TV, at movie theaters etc.....We are all at fault, but do not wish to accept responsibility for our weaknesses. WE ALL need to do a better job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Locally, I think the attack is more directed towards the AEA, specifically Paul Hubbert as opposed to the entire teaching profession. My children have had some wonderful teachers. They have most definitely had more good ones than bad ones as well as a few exceptional educators. However, many including myself oppose the power to control policymaking that the AEA has possessed for many years. It is unfortunate if teachers have to pay for Mr. Hubbert's mistakes. I do acknowledge greater efforts on the parents end are required in many situations. I am willing to help and do when given the chance. What do you do when the school will not allow you to help? What about when teachers call and leave voicemails cancelling meetings because they do not feel it is necessary, how can we be involved then? What about when you inquire about meetings, certain events or contests at the school and the person in charge of that withholds this information from all but a few? What are we to do?

quote:

What about when you inquire about meetings, certain events or contests at the school and the person in charge of that withholds this information from all but a few? What are we to do?

How can this happen? Please be more specific.

quote:

Teachers are lucky that their compensation isn't linked to the results they achieve.

An fallacious statement if ever I have seen one. You insult the integrity of every highly motivated, sincerely obligated teacher that I have known in my 32 years of education. I resent the arrogant stupidity of your statement. I will not read this and sit idly by. Teaching is war, every day, every hour. You have no idea.....

quote:

Originally posted by mamyliga:

quote:

Teachers are lucky that their compensation isn't linked to the results they achieve.

An fallacious statement if ever I have seen one. You insult the integrity of every highly motivated, sincerely obligated teacher that I have known in my 32 years of education. I resent the arrogant stupidity of your statement. I will not read this and sit idly by. Teaching is war, every day, every hour. You have no idea.....

Sounds like you're losing.

quote:

Originally posted by Melvince:
"WHAT has the Alabama Education Association done to warrant these ATTACKS?" I seriously cannot believe anyone can ask this question and genuinely not already know the answer...wow! It seems all I am hearing lately is teachers complaining about their jobs. They know when they go into the profession how much they will make and the benefits associated with the career choice. It is truly comedic when claims are made about not being paid well, please don’t forget this is Alabama…if an individual is making $30,000 + (which teachers do, several I know make a quite bit more) they are making a decent living. I did state decent, not exceptional or great but good enough. Also, don’t forget to include the worth of the benefits. I am fully aware that there is not enough money for our schools right now. It is hard for everyone including the parents, as we are asked to donate a lot. I know not all contribute to the cause but many of us do. This war is waged on the AEA, not the teachers! I’m not sure if I were a teacher if I would be associated with such a “professional organization,” especially now that people are furious with them.
As far as the AEA is concerned, I hope they lose their political influence. They are/were basically machines controlling lawmakers. They deserve to be knocked off their pedestal. They are corrupt, sneaky, and underhanded, about the lowest of the low around here. It pretty much seems like the only people who “support” the AEA, to no surprise, are teachers. They may be looking out for your best interest, but it comes as a cost to the rest of us and that doesn’t work for me. The AEA and anyone connected to it whatsoever will get no sympathy from me. Judging from many comments I have read lately, many others share my view. I would love to hear more about the boe members mentioned earlier.

So, what makes you so jealous of teacher salaries? Do you have a low paying job? Perhaps, because of a poor education.

quote:

Originally posted by Opie Cunningham:

quote:

Originally posted by mamyliga:

quote:

Teachers are lucky that their compensation isn't linked to the results they achieve.

An fallacious statement if ever I have seen one. You insult the integrity of every highly motivated, sincerely obligated teacher that I have known in my 32 years of education. I resent the arrogant stupidity of your statement. I will not read this and sit idly by. Teaching is war, every day, every hour. You have no idea.....

Sounds like you're losing.

Opie needs to hurry back to Mayberry. I believe that a village is missing its idiot.

Alabama must be doing a good job in the schools. It has 2 top rated football teams in the entire nation. Isn't football what's really important ? Who really cares about the other stuff ? Not the parents- they ask the schools NOT to show a TV feed of the President telling (in their words "brainwashing") their kids to stay in school and apply themselves.
Seems to me the people of Alabama want their kids to grow up as dumb as they are.

quote:

Originally posted by JimiHendrix:

quote:

Originally posted by Melvince:
"WHAT has the Alabama Education Association done to warrant these ATTACKS?" I seriously cannot believe anyone can ask this question and genuinely not already know the answer...wow! It seems all I am hearing lately is teachers complaining about their jobs. They know when they go into the profession how much they will make and the benefits associated with the career choice. It is truly comedic when claims are made about not being paid well, please don’t forget this is Alabama…if an individual is making $30,000 + (which teachers do, several I know make a quite bit more) they are making a decent living. I did state decent, not exceptional or great but good enough. Also, don’t forget to include the worth of the benefits. I am fully aware that there is not enough money for our schools right now. It is hard for everyone including the parents, as we are asked to donate a lot. I know not all contribute to the cause but many of us do. This war is waged on the AEA, not the teachers! I’m not sure if I were a teacher if I would be associated with such a “professional organization,” especially now that people are furious with them.
As far as the AEA is concerned, I hope they lose their political influence. They are/were basically machines controlling lawmakers. They deserve to be knocked off their pedestal. They are corrupt, sneaky, and underhanded, about the lowest of the low around here. It pretty much seems like the only people who “support” the AEA, to no surprise, are teachers. They may be looking out for your best interest, but it comes as a cost to the rest of us and that doesn’t work for me. The AEA and anyone connected to it whatsoever will get no sympathy from me. Judging from many comments I have read lately, many others share my view. I would love to hear more about the boe members mentioned earlier.

So, what makes you so jealous of teacher salaries? Do you have a low paying job? Perhaps, because of a poor education.

Oh wise one, I aspire to be as accurate as you are at analyzing individuals. How on earth do you do it? Really, was that reply your best shot at me? If so, I think your education is questionable. Also, it seems like you did not read my initial post very well, because if you did you would have noticed that I used words like “well” and “decent” to describe a teacher’s salary. If you really want to do this with me then at least put forth the effort or else you just look a bit pathetic and make for an easy target. Please come equipped for the next round!I will get back with you in a day or two as I currently have a busy schedule.

As long as the Alabama population remains uneducated, they might keep voting for the same politicians who keep them at the bottom of the education barrel. Sometimes Mississippi beats us to the bottom and Arizona did last year, but it doesn't happen very often. Gives you something to be proud of.

quote:

Originally posted by Wondering??:
The continued attacks by politicians and GOVernment are chaffing many of us!!! We have worked many long hours as well as had numerous sleepless nights in an attempt to reach many of our disoriented young people. When did people in Montgomery, the majority of whom has not spent ONE day inside a classroom, become authorities on what is best for our young people in Alabama? IT is all about control and power! If we stick our heads in the sand...I am certain the decisions they will make will not eliminate or even reduce our societal crumbling....for which teachers and support personnel are taking the fall!! GET UP AND SHOUT ABOUT IT!!!!!!

No dis-respect intended, I think 95% of the teachers are great, unfortunately 5% are not. Unless you are caught having sex with a student, you are pretty much safe in keeping your job.

I'll revise the original question, when did Paul Hubbert become an authority on what is best for our young people of Alabama?

Paul Hubbert has controled the puppet strings of the Alabama Legislature for too long. When there is a system in place to reward good teachers and get rid of bad ones, I would be happy. When a boilerplate system protects them all, it is not a good system.

I'm sure I'll be berated for this stance by some, which is your right, but while you are at it, let's hear your solution.

quote:

Originally posted by JimiHendrix:
As long as the Alabama population remains uneducated, they might keep voting for the same politicians who keep them at the bottom of the education barrel. Sometimes Mississippi beats us to the bottom and Arizona did last year, but it doesn't happen very often. Gives you something to be proud of.

Amen

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:
Alabama must be doing a good job in the schools. It has 2 top rated football teams in the entire nation. Isn't football what's really important ? Who really cares about the other stuff ? Not the parents- they ask the schools NOT to show a TV feed of the President telling (in their words "brainwashing") their kids to stay in school and apply themselves.
Seems to me the people of Alabama want their kids to grow up as dumb as they are.

I love sports as much as the next guy, but I agree. Too much emphasis is placed on winning at athletics. Not enough is placed on academic pursuits. Good post, Weed!

W. A Threadgill, the beloved principal, for whom the school in Sheffield is named, once shared the following thought. He said he was going to notify the parents that the children would be staying at school two hours later each day to practice basic skills. Parents and friends would be invited to come watch them demonstrate their proficiencies on Friday nights.

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:
Alabama must be doing a good job in the schools. It has 2 top rated football teams in the entire nation. Isn't football what's really important ? Who really cares about the other stuff ? Not the parents- they ask the schools NOT to show a TV feed of the President telling (in their words "brainwashing") their kids to stay in school and apply themselves.
Seems to me the people of Alabama want their kids to grow up as dumb as they are.

I don't think anyone wants their kids to grow up dumb, at least I hope not.

Although I know it was said in jest, the top two FB teams in the State are made up of about 2/3 out of state boys. Bama is slightly over half on in-Staters, and Auburn has merely a few.

quote:

Originally posted by earthmomma:
The errors are not typos. They are subject/verb agreements, run together sentences, and homonym errors. As a retired teacher, I find it terribly hard to defend you. Again, I trust you do not teach English. I make lots of typos and edit every post. Sometimes I miss one. Your problems are in compostion, grammar, and semantics. I AM SORRY YOU HAVE TO WORK ONE SATURDAY TO FULFILL YOUR CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS!

Build a bridge and get over it, please. Did you understand what was said? I did. Language is a constantly changing thing. The grammar of today will be archaic in the future. It's really not worth fussing over in an informal forum.

Opie? Did u even graduate HIGH SCHOOL?? You have an air of "SOUR GRAPES" ???? As for your sarcastic comment concerning "losing the war"...at least we are attempting to fight the battle. Do you have children? If so, how many times a week do you inquire about their day at school, help with homework assignments etc? If you do not have children, what makes you an authority on our current school system?

Opie...I make no apologies to you..I admit to getting fused when my profession is under attack. I have studied for years, and have taught for many more. The teachers, with whom I have spent my life, were not only good teachers but great individuals. If you want to continue the argument, then spend some time in your local school. At least, bring some type of background knowledge before making such a rash statement.

quote:

Originally posted by logical:

quote:

Originally posted by earthmomma:
The errors are not typos. They are subject/verb agreements, run together sentences, and homonym errors. As a retired teacher, I find it terribly hard to defend you. Again, I trust you do not teach English. I make lots of typos and edit every post. Sometimes I miss one. Your problems are in compostion, grammar, and semantics. I AM SORRY YOU HAVE TO WORK ONE SATURDAY TO FULFILL YOUR CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS!

Build a bridge and get over it, please. Did you understand what was said? I did. Language is a constantly changing thing. The grammar of today will be archaic in the future. It's really not worth fussing over in an informal forum.

Poor communication skills are indicative of an untrained, undisciplined mind. If you can't transmit your thoughts succinctly to others, don't expect to be hired for positions requiring such skills.

I suppose we can say the educational professionals in Wisconsin are ALSO overpaid sleezeballs since some government officials are currently attempting to "BUST" their union also right? So everyone who gets a paycut or layoff slip is automatically unworthy and untrained or their job???????

How sad!

Are AEA teachers guaranteed a Defined Benefit pension?


nsns

quote:

Originally posted by Wondering??:
I suppose we can say the educational professionals in Wisconsin are ALSO overpaid sleezeballs since some government officials are currently attempting to "BUST" their union also right? So everyone who gets a paycut or layoff slip is automatically unworthy and untrained or their job???????

How sad!

No, I would say that the Wisconsin teaching profession isn't delivering a valued product, especially for the cost of the product.

"Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can’t Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest"

http://cnsnews.com/news/articl...-public-school-8th-g

Yeah....I know, now you are telling me educational workers are to blame for EVERY problem from the national deficit to athletes foot!!!



When a team doesn't WIN.......Most folks fire the Coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!........not the players

quote:

When a team doesn't WIN.......Most folks fire the Coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!........not the players

Try a better analogy. What's the first thing a new coach does? He hits the recruiting trail for.......new players.

Or you can look at it another way and see the students as the players and the teachers as the coaches. Either way your analogy fails.

Whether you realize it or not you just gave your opponents a "free throw".

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Are AEA teachers guaranteed a Defined Benefit pension?


nsns

**** right they are.

Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

quote:

Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

What private school costs less than a public school? I would guess that most privates schools are considerably more in tuition costs.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:

quote:

Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

What private school costs less than a public school? I would guess that most privates schools are considerably more in tuition costs.

They are a lot more expensive than public schools in general, they pay their teachers a lot less , and most are church sponsored.
Is that what you really want- the end of public education which was seen as a necessity by our founders ? Not in the Constitution you may say, true, but if you go up to Boston (any of you right-wingers ever been there ?) on the walking tour you will see the first public school in this country. Built because the founders saw public education as the future of what would become our country.
This whole thing isn't about education, or even a budget, it is about politics, doing away with one of the few organizations that supports Democrats. Getting rid of Democrats is the ultimate goal, and so goes the great middle class of our country.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:

quote:

Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

What private school costs less than a public school? I would guess that most privates schools are considerably more in tuition costs.

The more toney private schools usually do cost more. But, not all. A little research reveals Catholic schools cost about 25 percent less. They don't have the massive overhead administrative staff the public schools do.

Competition would be a solution. The US universities are a combination of private and public. And, are world class. Parents at failing schools should be issued vouchers worth about 75 percent of the average cost to educate their children. The vouchers could be used at private schools, including religious schools. Perhaps, parents who home school should draw vouchers valued at the cost of the books their children use. Charter schools are another option. True, 50 percent fail. That means 50 percent succeed.

The NEA might get the idea and compete to keep their jobs and power. Enough of the NEA doing a sorry job of educating their charges. Children had been kept hostage too long.

So the Jewish kids have to go to a Catholic school??? In Huntsville, the school system is paying about $8k per student. The current desegregation order controversy has pointed out once again the large diff in test scores at the different schools, and the schools that do well are already full, or like Grissom, way over ideal enrollment.

The nearby private school, Randolph, costs about $13k for elementary and $15k for high school, and both are full.

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:

quote:

Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

What private school costs less than a public school? I would guess that most privates schools are considerably more in tuition costs.

The more toney private schools usually do cost more. But, not all. A little research reveals Catholic schools cost about 25 percent less. They don't have the massive overhead administrative staff the public schools do.

Competition would be a solution. The US universities are a combination of private and public. And, are world class. Parents at failing schools should be issued vouchers worth about 75 percent of the average cost to educate their children. The vouchers could be used at private schools, including religious schools. Perhaps, parents who home school should draw vouchers valued at the cost of the books their children use. Charter schools are another option. True, 50 percent fail. That means 50 percent succeed.

The NEA might get the idea and compete to keep their jobs and power. Enough of the NEA doing a sorry job of educating their charges. Children had been kept hostage too long.

I hope you are not recommending vouchers so that the public school system will vanish and greedy educational corporations will be given our tax dollars to educate our children .

U tell 'um seaweed!!

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:

quote:

Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

What private school costs less than a public school? I would guess that most privates schools are considerably more in tuition costs.

The more toney private schools usually do cost more. But, not all. A little research reveals Catholic schools cost about 25 percent less. They don't have the massive overhead administrative staff the public schools do.

Competition would be a solution. The US universities are a combination of private and public. And, are world class. Parents at failing schools should be issued vouchers worth about 75 percent of the average cost to educate their children. The vouchers could be used at private schools, including religious schools. Perhaps, parents who home school should draw vouchers valued at the cost of the books their children use. Charter schools are another option. True, 50 percent fail. That means 50 percent succeed.

The NEA might get the idea and compete to keep their jobs and power. Enough of the NEA doing a sorry job of educating their charges. Children had been kept hostage too long.

I hope you are not recommending vouchers so that the public school system will vanish and greedy educational corporations will be given our tax dollars to educate our children .

Yes, we are recommending vouchers, not that the public school system will vanish, (that would be a bonus) but so that our children will get a quality education for a change.

A better education at a lower price.
http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=1118

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:

quote:

Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

What private school costs less than a public school? I would guess that most privates schools are considerably more in tuition costs.

The more toney private schools usually do cost more. But, not all. A little research reveals Catholic schools cost about 25 percent less. They don't have the massive overhead administrative staff the public schools do.

Competition would be a solution. The US universities are a combination of private and public. And, are world class. Parents at failing schools should be issued vouchers worth about 75 percent of the average cost to educate their children. The vouchers could be used at private schools, including religious schools. Perhaps, parents who home school should draw vouchers valued at the cost of the books their children use. Charter schools are another option. True, 50 percent fail. That means 50 percent succeed.

The NEA might get the idea and compete to keep their jobs and power. Enough of the NEA doing a sorry job of educating their charges. Children had been kept hostage too long.

I hope you are not recommending vouchers so that the public school system will vanish and greedy educational corporations will be given our tax dollars to educate our children .

Sushi wrap,

I mean what I said and said what I mean! Suggest a course in reading comprehension! I stated that when the public schools are failing to educate their students, options should be offered. Charter schools are an alternate form of public schooling. Home schooling and religious schools are not corporate entities, either.

Private schools are an option, but only one of many. I'm not certain I desire more left wing private schools like Harvard or Yale, for that matter. As the US spends second only to Switzerland, but receives a far poorer product, more money is, obviously, not the answer.

Public schools date from the founding of the republic, de Tocqueville commented on this and that attendance was mandatory. There is much to be said for an assembly of young people from all economic and ethnic groups. They learn to socialize more and it dilutes that dammed cultural diversity. The draft used to accomplish the same function as a by-product.

quote:

Originally posted by Wondering??:
U tell 'um seaweed!!

If, you truly sympathize with the unions, I suggest you research how union leaders and labor lords misuse their members funds. The UAW invested in a country club and other luxury property that never made a profit. Their labor lords were and are, I believe, frequent guests.

The DC teachers union leader wasted their retirement fund on frivolities. It may be years before the fund recovers.

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Are AEA teachers guaranteed a Defined Benefit pension?


nsns

actually whether AEA or not ALL teachers in Alabama will lose their defined benefit pension..and the state will go to a 401k system...they also have a bill where teachers will be required to work until they are 60 no matter how many yrs they have in. They are also considering cutting the school year by 5 days for students and 5 days for teachers. Thats 5 days of lost instructional time and 10 days of lost pay. It is not only the teachers being affected... this is what Ive been trying to say..the budget was cut from $75 per teaching unit for textbooks to $15. There arent any textbooks for $15. Alabama pays the lowest taxes of ANY state, you can blame everything on the teachers, however, at some point everyone has to join together and try and solve the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

THAT is exacly what the government wants to happen! What exactly are you going to do with the special education students? Or the students who cannot pay? Believe it or not whether a teacher teaches at a private or public school, we all go to the same universities, get the same degrees, and have to pass the same teacher's test. Thank you for proving my point! You basically said because the teachers get paid less the students learn. Thats bull and you know it.. this isnt about education, its about attacking teachers. If you really keep up with the achievements of alabama students you would see that student achievement scores have increased, we have enrolled more students in advanced academic classes, and raised the graduation rate. However more cuts threaten all that. The real problem is these major corporations who make money in Alabama then use legal loopholes to pay zero taxes in Alabama. The normal working family pays taxes, the small business person pays taxes, laws need to be passed to stop these corporations from doing this!

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:

quote:

Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

What private school costs less than a public school? I would guess that most privates schools are considerably more in tuition costs.

The more toney private schools usually do cost more. But, not all. A little research reveals Catholic schools cost about 25 percent less. They don't have the massive overhead administrative staff the public schools do.

Competition would be a solution. The US universities are a combination of private and public. And, are world class. Parents at failing schools should be issued vouchers worth about 75 percent of the average cost to educate their children. The vouchers could be used at private schools, including religious schools. Perhaps, parents who home school should draw vouchers valued at the cost of the books their children use. Charter schools are another option. True, 50 percent fail. That means 50 percent succeed.

The NEA might get the idea and compete to keep their jobs and power. Enough of the NEA doing a sorry job of educating their charges. Children had been kept hostage too long.

I hope you are not recommending vouchers so that the public school system will vanish and greedy educational corporations will be given our tax dollars to educate our children .

Sushi wrap,

I mean what I said and said what I mean! Suggest a course in reading comprehension! I stated that when the public schools are failing to educate their students, options should be offered. Charter schools are an alternate form of public schooling. Home schooling and religious schools are not corporate entities, either.

Private schools are an option, but only one of many. I'm not certain I desire more left wing private schools like Harvard or Yale, for that matter. As the US spends second only to Switzerland, but receives a far poor product, more money is, obviously, not the answer.

Public schools date from the founding of the republic, de Tocqueville commented on this and that attendance was mandatory. There is much to be said for an assembly of young people from all economic and ethnic groups. They learn to socialize more and it dilutes that dammed cultural diversity. The draft used to accomplish the same function as a by-product.

public schools are NOT failing...despite all the cuts teachers are doing everything humanly possible to keep the above...and besides the above, why not start cutting as far away from the classrooms as possible? Start at the local boards...I challenge you to go online and look at the salaries being made at your local boards of education...(our supers wasnt included? but we know what he makes) but just at the board of ed there are million of dollars going out on these "made up" job titles..the secretary for our super starts out at $37,000 without a degree! thats crazy...

quote:

Originally posted by LE89:

quote:

Originally posted by Wondering??:
The continued attacks by politicians and GOVernment are chaffing many of us!!! We have worked many long hours as well as had numerous sleepless nights in an attempt to reach many of our disoriented young people. When did people in Montgomery, the majority of whom has not spent ONE day inside a classroom, become authorities on what is best for our young people in Alabama? IT is all about control and power! If we stick our heads in the sand...I am certain the decisions they will make will not eliminate or even reduce our societal crumbling....for which teachers and support personnel are taking the fall!! GET UP AND SHOUT ABOUT IT!!!!!!

No dis-respect intended, I think 95% of the teachers are great, unfortunately 5% are not. Unless you are caught having sex with a student, you are pretty much safe in keeping your job.

I'll revise the original question, when did Paul Hubbert become an authority on what is best for our young people of Alabama?

Paul Hubbert has controled the puppet strings of the Alabama Legislature for too long. When there is a system in place to reward good teachers and get rid of bad ones, I would be happy. When a boilerplate system protects them all, it is not a good system.

I'm sure I'll be berated for this stance by some, which is your right, but while you are at it, let's hear your solution.

no disrespect for you either but tenure is not in place to protect the bad teachers its there to protect the good ones. Do you realize that if our tenure is taken away that an elected official can just fire you without any reason? Lets say you helped the guy who ran against him..or lets say his neice needs your job. YES it is that political in this area. Its that political in the hiring and its tht political in the firing. To gain tenure you have to be hired back for your 4th year. If a "bad" teacher makes it through that process, then the principal didnt do his job. However, we are under contract. We CAN be fired. We have certain rules and regulations that we have to follow and one is to set a "moral" example. That gets me sometimes because people think we should never make a mistake. We are human too. But this job is not like getting hired at a plant and you get so many warnings or writeups and then you are gone. They can literally walk in and say go home without the tenure laws. These officials already put their power trips on us. They need to realize they are an elected official and they do not own the school or system and should not be allowed to run over employees at will just because they can. Hope this helps.

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by Wondering??:
U tell 'um seaweed!!

If, you truly sympathize with the unions, I suggest you research how union leaders and labor lords misuse their members funds. The UAW invested in a country club and other luxury property that never made a profit. Their labor lords were and are, I believe, frequent guests.

The DC teachers union leader wasted their retirement fund on frivolities. It may be years before the fund recovers.

You cannot judge all unions by this one...my husband wanted me to say he is NOT a teacher but he is employed and in a union and is so glad he is! Believe me so am I. He makes well over $70,000 a year, has great benefits, and guess what? Nobody is burning them at the stake... at least not yet!

quote:

Originally posted by Opie Cunningham:

quote:

Originally posted by mamyliga:

quote:

Teachers are lucky that their compensation isn't linked to the results they achieve.

An fallacious statement if ever I have seen one. You insult the integrity of every highly motivated, sincerely obligated teacher that I have known in my 32 years of education. I resent the arrogant stupidity of your statement. I will not read this and sit idly by. Teaching is war, every day, every hour. You have no idea.....

Sounds like you're losing.

actually it shows how you do not know what you are talking about...because if we were payed for the results..we would all be getting a great big pay raise this year! test scores have went up dramtically, gradution drop out rates have decreased and have doubled the number of students taking advanced classes.... WHERES MY CHECK????

Why doesnt someone ask why our funding for schools is one of the lowest per student in the nation because we continue to enjoy the lowest property taxes of any state in the nation? Why do we continue to allow Alfa to lobby for low property taxes for farmers while providing them with huge loans at 3% interest rates and continue to pay them to not raise certain crops so as to keep market prices stable....please, if I am wrong, correct my errors..We hear your screams about AEA lobbyist, not about Alfa...which at one time was FARM BUREAU...

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:

quote:

Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

What private school costs less than a public school? I would guess that most privates schools are considerably more in tuition costs.

The more toney private schools usually do cost more. But, not all. A little research reveals Catholic schools cost about 25 percent less. They don't have the massive overhead administrative staff the public schools do.

Competition would be a solution. The US universities are a combination of private and public. And, are world class. Parents at failing schools should be issued vouchers worth about 75 percent of the average cost to educate their children. The vouchers could be used at private schools, including religious schools. Perhaps, parents who home school should draw vouchers valued at the cost of the books their children use. Charter schools are another option. True, 50 percent fail. That means 50 percent succeed.

The NEA might get the idea and compete to keep their jobs and power. Enough of the NEA doing a sorry job of educating their charges. Children had been kept hostage too long.

I hope you are not recommending vouchers so that the public school system will vanish and greedy educational corporations will be given our tax dollars to educate our children .

Sushi wrap,

I mean what I said and said what I mean! Suggest a course in reading comprehension! I stated that when the public schools are failing to educate their students, options should be offered. Charter schools are an alternate form of public schooling. Home schooling and religious schools are not corporate entities, either.

Private schools are an option, but only one of many. I'm not certain I desire more left wing private schools like Harvard or Yale, for that matter. As the US spends second only to Switzerland, but receives a far poor product, more money is, obviously, not the answer.

Public schools date from the founding of the republic, de Tocqueville commented on this and that attendance was mandatory. There is much to be said for an assembly of young people from all economic and ethnic groups. They learn to socialize more and it dilutes that dammed cultural diversity. The draft used to accomplish the same function as a by-product.

public schools are NOT failing...despite all the cuts teachers are doing everything humanly possible to keep the above...and besides the above, why not start cutting as far away from the classrooms as possible? Start at the local boards...I challenge you to go online and look at the salaries being made at your local boards of education...(our supers wasnt included? but we know what he makes) but just at the board of ed there are million of dollars going out on these "made up" job titles..the secretary for our super starts out at $37,000 without a degree! thats crazy...

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can’t Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest"

http://cnsnews.com/news/articl...-public-school-8th-g

While, only one city, what part of the article don't you comprehend! The US used to have the highest level of literacy in the world. De Tocqueville commented on it two hundred years ago. Historians state that frontiersmen set out with rifle, axe, knife and a sheaf of newspapers. Check out the McGuffey readers. The sixth grade book is the equivalent of a tenth grade book, today. The twelfth grade book is college level.

Again, the US spends only second to Switzerland, per student. We certainly aren't getting our money's worth! Agreed, the admin overhead is wasting billions nationwide.

quote:

Originally posted by skreechowl:
Why doesnt someone ask why our funding for schools is one of the lowest per student in the nation? Why doesnt someone ask why our property taxes remain the lowest of any state in the nation? Why do we continue to allow Alfa to lobby for low property taxes for farmers while providing them with huge loans at 3% interest rates and continue to pay them to not raise certain crops so as to keep market prices stable....please, if I am wrong, correct my errors.....

AMEN..ALABAMA IS LOWEST OF ALL STATES IN TAXES...

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

What private school costs less than a public school? I would guess that most privates schools are considerably more in tuition costs.

The more toney private schools usually do cost more. But, not all. A little research reveals Catholic schools cost about 25 percent less. They don't have the massive overhead administrative staff the public schools do.

Competition would be a solution. The US universities are a combination of private and public. And, are world class. Parents at failing schools should be issued vouchers worth about 75 percent of the average cost to educate their children. The vouchers could be used at private schools, including religious schools. Perhaps, parents who home school should draw vouchers valued at the cost of the books their children use. Charter schools are another option. True, 50 percent fail. That means 50 percent succeed.

The NEA might get the idea and compete to keep their jobs and power. Enough of the NEA doing a sorry job of educating their charges. Children had been kept hostage too long.

I hope you are not recommending vouchers so that the public school system will vanish and greedy educational corporations will be given our tax dollars to educate our children .

Sushi wrap,

I mean what I said and said what I mean! Suggest a course in reading comprehension! I stated that when the public schools are failing to educate their students, options should be offered. Charter schools are an alternate form of public schooling. Home schooling and religious schools are not corporate entities, either.

Private schools are an option, but only one of many. I'm not certain I desire more left wing private schools like Harvard or Yale, for that matter. As the US spends second only to Switzerland, but receives a far poor product, more money is, obviously, not the answer.

Public schools date from the founding of the republic, de Tocqueville commented on this and that attendance was mandatory. There is much to be said for an assembly of young people from all economic and ethnic groups. They learn to socialize more and it dilutes that dammed cultural diversity. The draft used to accomplish the same function as a by-product.

public schools are NOT failing...despite all the cuts teachers are doing everything humanly possible to keep the above...and besides the above, why not start cutting as far away from the classrooms as possible? Start at the local boards...I challenge you to go online and look at the salaries being made at your local boards of education...(our supers wasnt included? but we know what he makes) but just at the board of ed there are million of dollars going out on these "made up" job titles..the secretary for our super starts out at $37,000 without a degree! thats crazy...

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can’t Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest"

http://cnsnews.com/news/articl...-public-school-8th-g

While, only one city, what part of the article don't you comprehend! The US used to have the highest level of literacy in the world. De Tocqueville commented on it two hundred years ago. Historians state that frontiersmen set out with rifle, axe, knife and a sheaf of newspapers. Check out the McGuffey readers. The sixth grade book is the equivalent of a tenth grade book, today. The twelfth grade book is college level.

Again, the US spends only second to Switzerland, per student. We certainly aren't getting our money's worth! Agreed, the admin overhead is wasting billions nationwide.[/QUOTE

]I THINK THATS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID.. THE CUTS NEEDED TO BE AS FAR AWAY FROM THE CLASSROOM AS POSSIBLE...A TEACHERS PAY AND STUDENT PERFORMANCE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER...WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CLASS SIZE, TEXTBOOKS, CLASSROOM SUPPLIES, ETC THAT CAN AND WILL AFFECT A CHILD'S EDUCATION. START AT THE TOP!

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:

quote:

Originally posted by skreechowl:
Why doesnt someone ask why our funding for schools is one of the lowest per student in the nation? Why doesnt someone ask why our property taxes remain the lowest of any state in the nation? Why do we continue to allow Alfa to lobby for low property taxes for farmers while providing them with huge loans at 3% interest rates and continue to pay them to not raise certain crops so as to keep market prices stable....please, if I am wrong, correct my errors.....

AMEN..ALABAMA IS LOWEST OF ALL STATES IN TAXES...

SORRY, NO!

"The 10 states with the lowest overall taxes

For 2008 the here is the list of states with taxes as a percentage of income.

Alaska 6.4%
Nevada 6.6%
Wyoming 7.0%
Florida 7.4%
New Hampshire 7.6%
South Dakota 7.9%
Tennessee 8.3%
Texas 8.4%
Louisiana 8.4%
Arizona 8.5%"

http://www.frugal-retirement-l...est-state-taxes.html

I thought you were a teacher. Don't you research before making such statements?

quote:

Originally posted by ShugaPush:
As someone originally from Kentucky, wondering, can you tell me why the students in Alabama are "disoriented?"

And Bamagirl34, you do know median is not average, don't you?

Sheesh, these are your kids' teachers, folks!

YOU ARE FROM KENTUCKY AND YOU REALLY WANT TO JUDGE US? I MEANT THE MIDDLE YOU KNOW LIKE 50%? DOESNT TAKE ALOT OF SMARTS TO FIGURE THAT OUT...

In probability theory and statistics, a median is described as the numeric value separating the higher half of a sample, a population, or a probability distribution, from the lower half. The median of a finite list of numbers can be found by arranging all the observations from lowest value to highest value and picking the middle one. If there is an even number of observations, then there is no single middle value; the median is then usually defined to be the mean of the two middle values.[1][2]

BamaGirl, I agree with several of your points. However, I cannot agree with 'payed' and 'have went'. I have ignored what seem to be tyoos. Try this: " Mommy, it has to be right. The teacher says it!"

quote:

Originally posted by earthmomma:
BamaGirl, I agree with several of your points. However, I cannot agree with 'payed' and 'have went'. I have ignored what seem to be typos. Try this: " Mommy, it has to be right. The teacher says it!"

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

What private school costs less than a public school? I would guess that most privates schools are considerably more in tuition costs.

The more toney private schools usually do cost more. But, not all. A little research reveals Catholic schools cost about 25 percent less. They don't have the massive overhead administrative staff the public schools do.

Competition would be a solution. The US universities are a combination of private and public. And, are world class. Parents at failing schools should be issued vouchers worth about 75 percent of the average cost to educate their children. The vouchers could be used at private schools, including religious schools. Perhaps, parents who home school should draw vouchers valued at the cost of the books their children use. Charter schools are another option. True, 50 percent fail. That means 50 percent succeed.

The NEA might get the idea and compete to keep their jobs and power. Enough of the NEA doing a sorry job of educating their charges. Children had been kept hostage too long.

I hope you are not recommending vouchers so that the public school system will vanish and greedy educational corporations will be given our tax dollars to educate our children .

Sushi wrap,

I mean what I said and said what I mean! Suggest a course in reading comprehension! I stated that when the public schools are failing to educate their students, options should be offered. Charter schools are an alternate form of public schooling. Home schooling and religious schools are not corporate entities, either.

Private schools are an option, but only one of many. I'm not certain I desire more left wing private schools like Harvard or Yale, for that matter. As the US spends second only to Switzerland, but receives a far poor product, more money is, obviously, not the answer.

Public schools date from the founding of the republic, de Tocqueville commented on this and that attendance was mandatory. There is much to be said for an assembly of young people from all economic and ethnic groups. They learn to socialize more and it dilutes that dammed cultural diversity. The draft used to accomplish the same function as a by-product.

public schools are NOT failing...despite all the cuts teachers are doing everything humanly possible to keep the above...and besides the above, why not start cutting as far away from the classrooms as possible? Start at the local boards...I challenge you to go online and look at the salaries being made at your local boards of education...(our supers wasnt included? but we know what he makes) but just at the board of ed there are million of dollars going out on these "made up" job titles..the secretary for our super starts out at $37,000 without a degree! thats crazy...

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can’t Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest"

http://cnsnews.com/news/articl...-public-school-8th-g

While, only one city, what part of the article don't you comprehend! The US used to have the highest level of literacy in the world. De Tocqueville commented on it two hundred years ago. Historians state that frontiersmen set out with rifle, axe, knife and a sheaf of newspapers. Check out the McGuffey readers. The sixth grade book is the equivalent of a tenth grade book, today. The twelfth grade book is college level.

Again, the US spends only second to Switzerland, per student. We certainly aren't getting our money's worth! Agreed, the admin overhead is wasting billions nationwide.[/QUOTE

]I THINK THATS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID.. THE CUTS NEEDED TO BE AS FAR AWAY FROM THE CLASSROOM AS POSSIBLE...A TEACHERS PAY AND STUDENT PERFORMANCE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER...WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CLASS SIZE, TEXTBOOKS, CLASSROOM SUPPLIES, ETC THAT CAN AND WILL AFFECT A CHILD'S EDUCATION. START AT THE TOP!

With the exception of specialty classes such as physics, chemistry and a few computer courses, even class size is not a good indicator. Classes with up to 28 students do not appear to make a difference. In my long past secondary education, class sizes of 30 to 32 were common. The other things, I agree on.

Catholic schools, schules and some private schools have very small administrative overhead. That is a main factor in cost savings. Perhaps, all school systems should have a stern old nun or a member of hadassah approve all admin expenses and positions, complete with knuckle rap.

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:

quote:

Originally posted by skreechowl:
Why doesnt someone ask why our funding for schools is one of the lowest per student in the nation? Why doesnt someone ask why our property taxes remain the lowest of any state in the nation? Why do we continue to allow Alfa to lobby for low property taxes for farmers while providing them with huge loans at 3% interest rates and continue to pay them to not raise certain crops so as to keep market prices stable....please, if I am wrong, correct my errors.....

AMEN..ALABAMA IS LOWEST OF ALL STATES IN TAXES...

SORRY, NO!

"The 10 states with the lowest overall taxes

For 2008 the here is the list of states with taxes as a percentage of income.

Alaska 6.4%
Nevada 6.6%
Wyoming 7.0%
Florida 7.4%
New Hampshire 7.6%
South Dakota 7.9%
Tennessee 8.3%
Texas 8.4%
Louisiana 8.4%
Arizona 8.5%"

http://www.frugal-retirement-l...est-state-taxes.html

I thought you were a teacher. Don't you research before making such statements?

dONT YOU? WASNT TALKING ABOUT RETIREMENT PLACES AND FEDERAL TAXES TALKING ABOUT STATE AND LOCAL...YOU KNOW WHERE ALABAMA IS CONCERNED?

http://blog.al.com/birmingham-...lowest_taxes_in.html

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jobe:
Let the private schools take over the public schools. They’ll do it for halve the price with better results. Students would actually learn to read, write, and do math.

What private school costs less than a public school? I would guess that most privates schools are considerably more in tuition costs.

The more toney private schools usually do cost more. But, not all. A little research reveals Catholic schools cost about 25 percent less. They don't have the massive overhead administrative staff the public schools do.

Competition would be a solution. The US universities are a combination of private and public. And, are world class. Parents at failing schools should be issued vouchers worth about 75 percent of the average cost to educate their children. The vouchers could be used at private schools, including religious schools. Perhaps, parents who home school should draw vouchers valued at the cost of the books their children use. Charter schools are another option. True, 50 percent fail. That means 50 percent succeed.

The NEA might get the idea and compete to keep their jobs and power. Enough of the NEA doing a sorry job of educating their charges. Children had been kept hostage too long.

I hope you are not recommending vouchers so that the public school system will vanish and greedy educational corporations will be given our tax dollars to educate our children .

Sushi wrap,

I mean what I said and said what I mean! Suggest a course in reading comprehension! I stated that when the public schools are failing to educate their students, options should be offered. Charter schools are an alternate form of public schooling. Home schooling and religious schools are not corporate entities, either.

Private schools are an option, but only one of many. I'm not certain I desire more left wing private schools like Harvard or Yale, for that matter. As the US spends second only to Switzerland, but receives a far poor product, more money is, obviously, not the answer.

Public schools date from the founding of the republic, de Tocqueville commented on this and that attendance was mandatory. There is much to be said for an assembly of young people from all economic and ethnic groups. They learn to socialize more and it dilutes that dammed cultural diversity. The draft used to accomplish the same function as a by-product.

public schools are NOT failing...despite all the cuts teachers are doing everything humanly possible to keep the above...and besides the above, why not start cutting as far away from the classrooms as possible? Start at the local boards...I challenge you to go online and look at the salaries being made at your local boards of education...(our supers wasnt included? but we know what he makes) but just at the board of ed there are million of dollars going out on these "made up" job titles..the secretary for our super starts out at $37,000 without a degree! thats crazy...

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can’t Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest"

http://cnsnews.com/news/articl...-public-school-8th-g

While, only one city, what part of the article don't you comprehend! The US used to have the highest level of literacy in the world. De Tocqueville commented on it two hundred years ago. Historians state that frontiersmen set out with rifle, axe, knife and a sheaf of newspapers. Check out the McGuffey readers. The sixth grade book is the equivalent of a tenth grade book, today. The twelfth grade book is college level.

Again, the US spends only second to Switzerland, per student. We certainly aren't getting our money's worth! Agreed, the admin overhead is wasting billions nationwide.[/QUOTE

]I THINK THATS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID.. THE CUTS NEEDED TO BE AS FAR AWAY FROM THE CLASSROOM AS POSSIBLE...A TEACHERS PAY AND STUDENT PERFORMANCE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER...WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CLASS SIZE, TEXTBOOKS, CLASSROOM SUPPLIES, ETC THAT CAN AND WILL AFFECT A CHILD'S EDUCATION. START AT THE TOP!

With the exception of specialty classes such as physics, chemistry and a few computer courses, even class size is not a good indicator. Classes with up to 28 students do not appear to make a difference. In my long past secondary education, class sizes of 30 to 32 were common. The other things, I agree on.

Catholic schools, schules and some private schools have very small administrative overhead. That is a main factor in cost savings. Perhaps, all school systems should have a stern old nun or a member of hadassah approve all admin expenses and positions, complete with knuckle rap.

LOL AGREE ON THAT STATEMENT...HOWEVER CLASS SIZE DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE TODAY..IT IS NOT LIKE IT WAS WHEN YOU AND I WENT TO SCHOOL. THESE STUDENTS HAVE MUCH MORE PRESSURE ON THEM WITH THE GRAD EXAM, ACT TEST (SCORES BEING HIGHER TO GET ACCEPTED), SAT TESTS AND PLAIN PASSING.. OUR STATE HAS PUT MORE ON TEACHERS TO TEACH IN A SHORTER AMOUNT OF TIME.THEREFORE THEY HAVE TO MOVE AT A MUCH FASTER PACE AND STAY "ON TRACK WITH WHERE THE STATE SAYS THEY SHOULD BE...CLASS SIZE MAKES A HUGE DIFF TODAY..

quote:

Originally posted by earthmomma:

quote:

Originally posted by earthmomma:
BamaGirl, I agree with several of your points. However, I cannot agree with 'payed' and 'have went'. I have ignored what seem to be typos. Try this: " Mommy, it has to be right. The teacher says it!"

AS I TOLD YOU IN THE OTHER DISCUSSION.. THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR YOU TO TRY AND SHOW HOW SMART YOU ARE... IT IS HOWEVER AN OPINION FORUM...AND FROM ALL YOUR POST I MUST STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH YOUR SIGNATURE STATEMENT...YOU ARE A FLAWED INDIVIDUAL JUST LIKE THE REST OF US.. BUT YOU LOVE DOING THE WRONG THING MOST OF THE TIME...BUT I REALIZE YOU ARE RETIRED AND HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO..I AM GOING TO BED. SOME OF US HAVE TO GO TO WORK TOMM.

I am not showing how smart I am! If I were your high school teacher I would be trying to get you out of high school via the exit exam! I cannot believe a college trained teacher would make a gross error such as "have went"! And yes, I suspect you do say it in front of the students in your classes. "Paid" for the past tense of pay is learned by most students in the third grade! Do you have no respect for your profession or yourself? I do not consider myself smart because I have third grade language and spelling skills. This has been edited to provide a question mark and to capitalize a lower case "i". I edit each post!

Bamagirl, why are you screaming?

bamagirl is screaming because elinterventor01 and I are double teaming her and we are several points ahead!

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:

quote:

Originally posted by elinterventor01:

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:

quote:

Originally posted by skreechowl:
Why doesnt someone ask why our funding for schools is one of the lowest per student in the nation? Why doesnt someone ask why our property taxes remain the lowest of any state in the nation? Why do we continue to allow Alfa to lobby for low property taxes for farmers while providing them with huge loans at 3% interest rates and continue to pay them to not raise certain crops so as to keep market prices stable....please, if I am wrong, correct my errors.....

AMEN..ALABAMA IS LOWEST OF ALL STATES IN TAXES...

SORRY, NO!

"The 10 states with the lowest overall taxes

For 2008 the here is the list of states with taxes as a percentage of income.

Alaska 6.4%
Nevada 6.6%
Wyoming 7.0%
Florida 7.4%
New Hampshire 7.6%
South Dakota 7.9%
Tennessee 8.3%
Texas 8.4%
Louisiana 8.4%
Arizona 8.5%"

http://www.frugal-retirement-l...est-state-taxes.html

I thought you were a teacher. Don't you research before making such statements?

dONT YOU? WASNT TALKING ABOUT RETIREMENT PLACES AND FEDERAL TAXES TALKING ABOUT STATE AND LOCAL...YOU KNOW WHERE ALABAMA IS CONCERNED?

http://blog.al.com/birmingham-...lowest_taxes_in.html

I'm surprised you don't see the lack of logic in your response. The above percentages show the states that take the least percentage of income from its residents in taxes. Your source shows the dollar amount taken. Alabama's percentage is higher than the above, but the take (in dollars) is less. Sadly, because the income levels the percentages are factored against are smaller.

EL...you have shown us such a perfect example of the use of knowledge, common sense, and critical thinking! This is an excellent exclamatory post.

I'm a product of the old liberal (small l) public education system. I'm for what will improve our children's lot. Not, for privatizing the whole works or homeschooling everyone, either. What we're doing right now, isn't working in many places. Those schools must be identified and made to change or alternatives offered.


BTW, years ago, when I planned the movement of tactical nukes across the nation, aren't you glad I didn't receive a modern education.

What you people that are screaming for private schools, Catholic schools, homeschooling, etc fail to realize is this: those entities can pick and chose which students enroll and stay enrolled at their schools. Public education HAS to take all - I daresay all the public schools would have different test score averages, dropout rates and other factors that are considered as to whether a school is failing if you could get rid of the special ed, the lazy ones, and the ones that just don't give a S***. No Child Left Behind has put so many obstacles in the teachers path to educating a child it's not funny. I have a friend that teaches Special Ed. She is trying to teach a student with about a 75 or less IQ how to write a comparative essay. They can't even put together a simple sentence, much less string 3 or more together to make a paragraph. Yet, NCLB says they must do this or the school they attend will be considered as a failure.
What's wrong with this picture?? What she needs to be teaching that student are life skills that they will actually use when they leave the school setting.

only144,

Well, have you completed venting! Do you have any suggestions to improve the public schools? Statistically, most schools should have a similar share of special ed students. And, to a slightly lesser degree, lazy ones. Once those are subtracted, the result easily identifies those schools failing to do a good job.

I've been a bit hard on bamagirl. Mainly, as an attempt to jolt her into realizing the problem she faces. I feel sorry for her. Those who taught her and, now direct her profession, have betrayed her.

She is sent out to slay a gorgon. However, instead of a burnished shield and a sharp sword; they've outfitted her with a bit of shiny aluminum foil and a butter knife.

Sometimes a "BUTTER KNIFE" is all it takes to cut through mushy piles of goo!! Quack-Quack!!

quote:

Originally posted by bamagirl34:

quote:

Originally posted by LE89:

quote:

Originally posted by Wondering??:
The continued attacks by politicians and GOVernment are chaffing many of us!!! We have worked many long hours as well as had numerous sleepless nights in an attempt to reach many of our disoriented young people. When did people in Montgomery, the majority of whom has not spent ONE day inside a classroom, become authorities on what is best for our young people in Alabama? IT is all about control and power! If we stick our heads in the sand...I am certain the decisions they will make will not eliminate or even reduce our societal crumbling....for which teachers and support personnel are taking the fall!! GET UP AND SHOUT ABOUT IT!!!!!!

No dis-respect intended, I think 95% of the teachers are great, unfortunately 5% are not. Unless you are caught having sex with a student, you are pretty much safe in keeping your job.

I'll revise the original question, when did Paul Hubbert become an authority on what is best for our young people of Alabama?

Paul Hubbert has controled the puppet strings of the Alabama Legislature for too long. When there is a system in place to reward good teachers and get rid of bad ones, I would be happy. When a boilerplate system protects them all, it is not a good system.

I'm sure I'll be berated for this stance by some, which is your right, but while you are at it, let's hear your solution.

no disrespect for you either but tenure is not in place to protect the bad teachers its there to protect the good ones. Do you realize that if our tenure is taken away that an elected official can just fire you without any reason? Lets say you helped the guy who ran against him..or lets say his neice needs your job. YES it is that political in this area. Its that political in the hiring and its tht political in the firing. To gain tenure you have to be hired back for your 4th year. If a "bad" teacher makes it through that process, then the principal didnt do his job. However, we are under contract. We CAN be fired. We have certain rules and regulations that we have to follow and one is to set a "moral" example. That gets me sometimes because people think we should never make a mistake. We are human too. But this job is not like getting hired at a plant and you get so many warnings or writeups and then you are gone. They can literally walk in and say go home without the tenure laws. These officials already put their power trips on us. They need to realize they are an elected official and they do not own the school or system and should not be allowed to run over employees at will just because they can. Hope this helps.

Yes I am aware that tenure is there to protect teachers, but it DOES protect the bad ones as well. I don't have tenure in my job. I rely on being in the top % of my field and I work hard to try to stay there. My boss could fire me and hire his nephew if he wanted to but I try to make sure he doesn't by being an asset to the company, not by being "protected". In my opinion, the bottom of the barrell in any profession must be constantly recycled to improve your "average" and this is not possible if the bottom of the barrell is protected from such scrutiny.

I do however agree that good teachers should be protected from someone hiring their niece to replace, but until a system is in place that allows getting rid of the bottom of the barrell teachers, I'll just have to have faith in the merit system used in the private sector.

Maybe elect better board members or not allow board members to vote for relatives would be a good start. I realize this does not work if an entire board is corrupt, but neither does a board or group that protects those that are incompetent (bottom of the barrell).

UHH HUH!! And I am moving to MAYBERRY!!!!

His niece probably has a job or you might very well be history!!!

Melvince!!!!! Slow down and put a sock in it!!!!! As long as people continue to allow themselves to believe all they read and hear..without knowing the facts, we will continue to be at the mercy of the one who writes the check!!

We should probably take up a collection for the poor poor teachers.