why is it when you mention God in a discussion you get accused of hiding behind your bible. nothing wrong with talking about God. If I do bring God in it is because it is something I believe in. So don't criticise me for it.
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There's alot of people on this forum, which means alot of different opinions.
quote:Originally posted by Taciturn:
There's alot of people on this forum, which means alot of different opinions.
exactly, but I don't go around criticising ppl for what they believe in
I for onr am pretty firm in my religious beliefs. But I am liberal enough to accept change. I believe God sent us here 1. To love one another and 2. To help and serve one another. Religion is NOT what one believes. TheSwindleMaster
quote:Originally posted by 2_each_its_own:
why is it when you mention God in a discussion you get accused of hiding behind your bible. nothing wrong with talking about God. If I do bring God in it is because it is something I believe in. So don't criticise me for it.
Matthew 5:11 "Blessed are you when men cast insults at you..."
if you stand for God, you must be willing to take the barbs..not to say you shouldn't address the issue, but know that there will be issues here...
John 1:2 "Consider it all joy..."
i wish you His Peace, in the midst...
2-each-
I don't criticize any one for their beliefs. I have argued with Gofish for being an atheist but he loves that. I think you have said a lot of good things on here. People always like to condemn someone if they think differently. You have to just let it flow off of you. I learned that the hard way with my first post. You are a good person. It shines through. Don't let the rest of it get under your shin. =^_^=
PS I love your avatar!!
I don't criticize any one for their beliefs. I have argued with Gofish for being an atheist but he loves that. I think you have said a lot of good things on here. People always like to condemn someone if they think differently. You have to just let it flow off of you. I learned that the hard way with my first post. You are a good person. It shines through. Don't let the rest of it get under your shin. =^_^=
PS I love your avatar!!
quote:Originally posted by 2_each_its_own:
exactly, but I don't go around criticising ppl for what they believe in
That's my point, with a forum this large with so many different opinions, you just have to let any criticism you get roll off your back.
I think it depends on how God is interjected into a discussion.
If the thread has a religious bend to it, well of course.
Don’t get me wrong. I am a Christian, although admittedly an imperfect one, and He is my Guiding Light of what I would aspire to be. However, religion is also personal, and sometimes other’s enthusiasm borders on exploitation.
For instance, Joy rarely mentions God outside a religious thread, yet I know she is devoutly religious and lives that life to the fullest extent all because she sets the example without advertizing it.
If the thread has a religious bend to it, well of course.
Don’t get me wrong. I am a Christian, although admittedly an imperfect one, and He is my Guiding Light of what I would aspire to be. However, religion is also personal, and sometimes other’s enthusiasm borders on exploitation.
For instance, Joy rarely mentions God outside a religious thread, yet I know she is devoutly religious and lives that life to the fullest extent all because she sets the example without advertizing it.
quote:If I do bring God in it is because it is something I believe in. So don't criticise me for it.
2 each,
Do you believe your god and your belief in him are above discussion and critique? I will admit, for some things, there is just no accounting. Taste in music and food, for example.
But, god, as (presumably) the creator and manager of the Universe is not one of those things. God remains open for discussion. You cannot start a thread like this, and expect there will be no discussion from points of view different than yours.
Your right to freely believe does not put you above discussion, especially in these days when the issue of gods are so important in politics and global friction.
Not even I will criticize you for believing in god, but I will criticize you if you want to force your beliefs onto me or innocent children through politics. This is the crux of most of the religious talk around here.
No one much cares if you believe, but many people of all religious stripes care deeply about government indoctrination and establishment of religious principles.
DF
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:quote:If I do bring God in it is because it is something I believe in. So don't criticise me for it.
2 each,
Do you believe your god and your belief in him are above discussion and critique? I will admit, for some things, there is just no accounting. Taste in music and food, for example.
But, god, as (presumably) the creator and manager of the Universe is not one of those things. God remains open for discussion. You cannot start a thread like this, and expect there will be no discussion from points of view different than yours.
Your right to freely believe does not put you above discussion, especially in these days when the issue of gods are so important in politics and global friction.
Not even I will criticize you for believing in god, but I will criticize you if you want to force your beliefs onto me or innocent children through politics. This is the crux of most of the religious talk around here.
No one much cares if you believe, but many people of all religious stripes care deeply about government indoctrination and establishment of religious principles.
DF
I never tried to force my belief on anybody not you or whatever children you are refering to or anybody else. dont know where you got that from. i just dont appreciate being critisized for my beliefs. ppl can belive in their own religion I have no problem with that. This is america i say do want you wanna do and believe in what you wanna believe in its none of my business
Please provide a link to the post where you were attacked for your beliefs. I'd like to read it for myself.
http://forums.timesdaily.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3921027316/m/3561074586
While I don't agree that you should have been attacked on that thread from other people's assumptions- you weren't judged merely for religion.
It was about smoking, and you took the victim way out, and made this post.
In your signature, you display proudly your religion, so if it's ever brought into question, you should expect it, and either defend it or not from there. It wasn't so much your beliefs that was brought up in argument, but the fact that you smoke.
You should /not/ have been attacked, that I do agree with- in either way.
~Amanda
While I don't agree that you should have been attacked on that thread from other people's assumptions- you weren't judged merely for religion.
It was about smoking, and you took the victim way out, and made this post.
In your signature, you display proudly your religion, so if it's ever brought into question, you should expect it, and either defend it or not from there. It wasn't so much your beliefs that was brought up in argument, but the fact that you smoke.
You should /not/ have been attacked, that I do agree with- in either way.
~Amanda
When talking about religion I find it best to understand others, but totally, disagree when some one is overbearing and try to make me believe in what they believe. I am over 21 years of age and I know I have the freedom, so far to believe in what I want to beleive. If a person don't believe in the Almighty, to me that is their business, not mine. To each their own.
Thanks, Amanda.
It appears to me that there was an unwarranted attack on TEIO's original post. There were a lot of assumptions (kids in house, smoking in house) made by the other members when those facts were not represented in TEIO's post.
But, TEIO did whip out the "God said thou shalt not judge" and the "only God's judgement matters" defense when took to task for smoking around the kids (which, according to TEIO, never happened).
TEIO...you certainly can talk about God anytime you want to. Just don't expect everybody else to agree with your views. If you're gonna get fuzzed up every time somebody takes an opposite view or opinion from yours, you'll stay fuzzed up as long as you're on this forum.
It appears to me that there was an unwarranted attack on TEIO's original post. There were a lot of assumptions (kids in house, smoking in house) made by the other members when those facts were not represented in TEIO's post.
But, TEIO did whip out the "God said thou shalt not judge" and the "only God's judgement matters" defense when took to task for smoking around the kids (which, according to TEIO, never happened).
TEIO...you certainly can talk about God anytime you want to. Just don't expect everybody else to agree with your views. If you're gonna get fuzzed up every time somebody takes an opposite view or opinion from yours, you'll stay fuzzed up as long as you're on this forum.
2 each,
If you have never pushed for Creationism in schools, if you do not choose your political candidates on their piety, if you never supported officially sanctioned school prayer, if you believe "under god" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, if you would buy a used car from an atheist, and if you think "In God We Trust" is inappropriate on our currency, then I congratulate you, and wish you happiness in your faith.
DF
If you have never pushed for Creationism in schools, if you do not choose your political candidates on their piety, if you never supported officially sanctioned school prayer, if you believe "under god" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, if you would buy a used car from an atheist, and if you think "In God We Trust" is inappropriate on our currency, then I congratulate you, and wish you happiness in your faith.
DF
quote:Originally posted by 2_each_its_own:
why is it when you mention God in a discussion you get accused of hiding behind your bible. nothing wrong with talking about God. If I do bring God in it is because it is something I believe in. So don't criticise me for it.
Bring God into the discussion all you want, but don't preach to me, please.
quote:Originally posted by CrustyMac:
Bring God into the discussion all you want, but don't preach to me, please.
DITTO!!!!
Hi Deep,
You say, "2 each, If you have never pushed for Creationism in schools, if you do not choose your political candidates on their piety, if you never supported officially sanctioned school prayer, if you believe "under god" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, if you would buy a used car from an atheist, and if you think "In God We Trust" is inappropriate on our currency, then I congratulate you, and wish you happiness in your faith."
In other words, you are saying to 2 Each, "If you believe just as I (Deep) believe; if you will be an atheist -- then I wish you happiness in your faith?"
So, if any of us share your faith, your religion of atheism, you wish us well. What do you wish us if we disagree with you and continue to be Christians?
And you accuse we Christians of preaching! I, nor any Christian on this Forum, have ever said that we wish anything but God's love for the atheists. Shouldn't you be doing the same for Christians? Just a thought.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
billdory@pacbell.net
Alabama bred,
California fed,
Blessed by God to be a Christian American!
You say, "2 each, If you have never pushed for Creationism in schools, if you do not choose your political candidates on their piety, if you never supported officially sanctioned school prayer, if you believe "under god" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, if you would buy a used car from an atheist, and if you think "In God We Trust" is inappropriate on our currency, then I congratulate you, and wish you happiness in your faith."
In other words, you are saying to 2 Each, "If you believe just as I (Deep) believe; if you will be an atheist -- then I wish you happiness in your faith?"
So, if any of us share your faith, your religion of atheism, you wish us well. What do you wish us if we disagree with you and continue to be Christians?
And you accuse we Christians of preaching! I, nor any Christian on this Forum, have ever said that we wish anything but God's love for the atheists. Shouldn't you be doing the same for Christians? Just a thought.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
billdory@pacbell.net
Alabama bred,
California fed,
Blessed by God to be a Christian American!
quote:So, if any of us share your faith, your religion of atheism, you wish us well. What do you wish us if we disagree with you and continue to be Christians?
Mr. Bill,
Try not to be an imbecile. Saying atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair color.
You CAN divorce religion and state, and if you are a good American, you will. The best protection of religion from the State is with the maximum separation. Can you understand that?
DF
Hi Deep,
Do you have a belief system, any system? I do believe that you believe atheism and evolution to be true. Therefore, you have a belief system, which is also called a religion.
True, you atheists would love to see all Christian influence taken out of our government -- for then you would have complete control over our society, quickly converting it to a Secular Humanism society. But, we will not allow that to happen.
Now, back to your claim that atheism is not a religion. Secular Humanism (atheism) is a religion. Read this excerpt from the web site: http://members.aol.com/Patriarchy/definitions/humanism_religion.htm
"John Dewey described Humanism as our 'common faith.' Julian Huxley called it 'Religion without Revelation.' The first Humanist Manifesto spoke openly of Humanism as a religion. Many other Humanists could be cited who have acknowledged that Humanism is a religion. In fact, claiming that Humanism was 'the new religion' was trendy for at least 100 years, perhaps beginning in 1875 with the publication of The Religion of Humanity by Octavius Brooks Frothingham (1822-1895), son of the distinguished Unitarian clergyman, Nathaniel Langdon Frothingham (1793-1870), pastor of the First Unitarian Church of Boston, 1815-1850. In the 1950's, Humanists sought and obtained tax-exempt status as religious organizations. Even the Supreme Court of the United States spoke in 1961 of Secular Humanism as a religion. It was a struggle to get atheism accepted as a religion, but it happened."
So, as you scream and throw a tantrum when I truthfully define atheism as a religion -- you need to read what leading atheists and the Supreme Court have said on this issue.
Deep, you have religion whether you like it or not.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
billdory@pacbell.net
Alabama bred,
California fed,
Blessed by God to be a Christian American!
Do you have a belief system, any system? I do believe that you believe atheism and evolution to be true. Therefore, you have a belief system, which is also called a religion.
True, you atheists would love to see all Christian influence taken out of our government -- for then you would have complete control over our society, quickly converting it to a Secular Humanism society. But, we will not allow that to happen.
Now, back to your claim that atheism is not a religion. Secular Humanism (atheism) is a religion. Read this excerpt from the web site: http://members.aol.com/Patriarchy/definitions/humanism_religion.htm
"John Dewey described Humanism as our 'common faith.' Julian Huxley called it 'Religion without Revelation.' The first Humanist Manifesto spoke openly of Humanism as a religion. Many other Humanists could be cited who have acknowledged that Humanism is a religion. In fact, claiming that Humanism was 'the new religion' was trendy for at least 100 years, perhaps beginning in 1875 with the publication of The Religion of Humanity by Octavius Brooks Frothingham (1822-1895), son of the distinguished Unitarian clergyman, Nathaniel Langdon Frothingham (1793-1870), pastor of the First Unitarian Church of Boston, 1815-1850. In the 1950's, Humanists sought and obtained tax-exempt status as religious organizations. Even the Supreme Court of the United States spoke in 1961 of Secular Humanism as a religion. It was a struggle to get atheism accepted as a religion, but it happened."
So, as you scream and throw a tantrum when I truthfully define atheism as a religion -- you need to read what leading atheists and the Supreme Court have said on this issue.
Deep, you have religion whether you like it or not.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
billdory@pacbell.net
Alabama bred,
California fed,
Blessed by God to be a Christian American!
quote:Saying atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair color.
DF, doesn't really matter to me what you call it..
but, if atheism isn't your 'religion', what do you call it?
quote:Originally posted by thehippiegirl:quote:Saying atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair color.
DF, doesn't really matter to me what you call it..
but, if atheism isn't your 'religion', what do you call it?
THG. I don't mean to be a smart behind {know how y'all feel about cuss words} and I may be going out on a limb here answering for DF {whose views are 180 out from mine but I like his logic}, but I believe it's called "atheism." Really. Meaning the absence of religion, or in DF's analogy, hair.
Considering my hair loss as I get older, DF might say I have male pattern atheism. But y'all may regard me as having a full head of Christ. I just keep it under my hat.
Hi Bud,
You may call it an absence of religion -- but the United States Supreme Court ruled that atheism is a religion.
Leading atheists called it a religion, as you can see from my last posting.
So, who is right: Deep -- or the Supreme Court and leading atheists?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
You may call it an absence of religion -- but the United States Supreme Court ruled that atheism is a religion.
Leading atheists called it a religion, as you can see from my last posting.
So, who is right: Deep -- or the Supreme Court and leading atheists?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
quote:Do you have a belief system, any system? I do believe that you believe atheism and evolution to be true. Therefore, you have a belief system, which is also called a religion.
Mr. Bill,
A belief system need not be a religion. We all believe that when we post to this forum, our posts will continue to appear in a remote server for all to read. Is Forumism a religion?
Atheism is not a religion. In 1961, the Supreme Court ruled "secular humanism" a religion, so cancel my membership. The Supremes are a legal body, and if identifying SH as a religion for some obscure legal purpose makes sense in that context, so be it.
But, atheism has no holy texts, no prophets, no sky gods, no revelations, and requires no one to believe anything. To say it's a religion is just silly.
John Dewey and Julian Huxley can speak for themselves, they do not speak for me. Religion necessarily means believing in the unprovable. I have no such belief system.
Do I "believe" atheism? What is there to believe? Atheism is a lack of belief in a religion. That's the fact, Jack.
DF
quote:But, atheism has no holy texts, no prophets, no sky gods, no revelations, and requires no one to believe anything. To say it's a religion is just silly.
Do I "believe" atheism? What is there to believe? Atheism is a lack of belief in a religion. That's the fact, Jack.
no disrespect intended DF, but that sounds like very much-a-nothing to me...
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Bud,
You may call it an absence of religion -- but the United States Supreme Court ruled that atheism is a religion.
Leading atheists called it a religion, as you can see from my last posting.
So, who is right: Deep -- or the Supreme Court and leading atheists?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
So who is right? Deep.
If you think the Supreme Court is always correct, how do you feel (and this is rhetorical, because I don't care how you feel) about Roe v Wade?
If the Supreme Court decided that kittens in an oven were actually bisucits, would you get the butter and jelly out?
The Supreme Court has overturned their own decisions before, and it will happen again. If you don't believe me, check out Brown v. Board of Education, which overturned Plessy v. Ferguson. They can just as well decide to overturn their own decision that atheism is a religion.
BTW, saying that atheism is a religion is like saying that darkness is a form of light, or that cold is a form of heat.
The Supreme Court has overturned their own decisions before, and it will happen again. If you don't believe me, check out Brown v. Board of Education, which overturned Plessy v. Ferguson. They can just as well decide to overturn their own decision that atheism is a religion.
BTW, saying that atheism is a religion is like saying that darkness is a form of light, or that cold is a form of heat.
quote:Originally posted by thehippiegirl:quote:Saying atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair color.
DF, doesn't really matter to me what you call it..
but, if atheism isn't your 'religion', what do you call it?
We call it "atheism." I do not understand how this concept is so difficult to grasp. It is a DISbelief in a deity.
Do you call your disbelief in Santa Clause a "religion" or belief system? Of course not. You simply don't believe. You are an asantist.
Evolution is a wholly seperate matter from atheism. Deep and I both HAPPEN to "believe" that science offers the the most rational, logical view of reality. We "believe" only in what the evidence tells us. You may call that a "belief" system if you must but that would not be accurate.
"Belief" requires no evidence. Science does.
you mention God in a headline you'll be surprised to see who shows up 
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
You may call it an absence of religion -- but the United States Supreme Court ruled that atheism is a religion.
Cool. You caused me to learn something I hadn't already known. I had always simply assume that atheism was protected under the Establishment clause. Now I find that this wasn't actually determined until just two short years ago. I thank you for that, Bill.
But, my friend, you are being disingenuous again. The Supremes didn't sit down to determine whether or not atheism was a religion. The court underscored that it considered Atheism a religion "for legal purposes." It was a ruling that recognized atheism as equivalent to a 'religion' for purposes of the First Amendment protection -- and rightly so.
From a Constitutional standpoint, I agree that atheism should be treated as a religion. Outside of that, atheism is no more a religion than asantaism, aunicornism, or aeasterbunnyism.
Well 2 each,
You got the big three now: DF, Gofish, and Bill Gray. Now you can just sit back and watch it unfold.
You got the big three now: DF, Gofish, and Bill Gray. Now you can just sit back and watch it unfold.
quote:Originally posted by littlemeanmama:
Well 2 each,
You got the big three now: DF, Gofish, and Bill Gray. Now you can just sit back and watch it unfold.
get the popcorn ready
I've got the beer and pretzels.
aw, come on in, join the party!
and how about a pitcher of margaritas and some nachos?
DF
and how about a pitcher of margaritas and some nachos?
DF
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
aw, come on in, join the party!
and how about a pitcher of margaritas and some nachos?
DF
yum...Nachos ... Darn it DF, Now I want some nachos, but don't know where I could get them *kicks you just for that*
hehe
~Amanda
go to taco bell for the 3rd meal, Amanda
Nachos from Taco Bell, Suck! At least here. LMAO!
LOL
I want some of those that you can get at the ballgames- you know with the round chips and the really good tangy cheese... Ahh. I gotta stop thinking about this.
Last thing my waistline needs is Nachos at nearly 11:30 at night. LMAO
~Amanda
LOL
I want some of those that you can get at the ballgames- you know with the round chips and the really good tangy cheese... Ahh. I gotta stop thinking about this.
Last thing my waistline needs is Nachos at nearly 11:30 at night. LMAO
~Amanda
Manda,
I must respectfully disagree. I like the nachos from Taco Bell but I do like mild cheeses better. I wish we had some Key Lime pie to go with those margaritas of DF's though.
As for the match, Fish wrote last on the subject so I believe DF or Mr. Gray is up next. Serve!!
I must respectfully disagree. I like the nachos from Taco Bell but I do like mild cheeses better. I wish we had some Key Lime pie to go with those margaritas of DF's though.
As for the match, Fish wrote last on the subject so I believe DF or Mr. Gray is up next. Serve!!
I have a headache. Just hand me the tequila, a lemon and some salt please. Don't worry about me draining your stash. It'll only take one...haha. Well, maybe two.
Here's two Joy.
Bottoms up!!!
Bottoms up!!!