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A follow up which I think gives the problem for the evolutionists. So much for Eve of Africa.
Science News
Discovery may push back age of modern man
Published: Dec. 27, 2010 at 5:26 PM
TEL AVIV, Israel, Dec. 27 (UPI) -- Scientists say they've found the world's earliest evidence of modern man, Homo sapiens, living in what is now Israel twice as long ago as previously thought.
Researchers from Tel Aviv University found eight human teeth at least 400,000 years old at the prehistoric Qesem Cave site near Rosh Ha'ayin, The Jerusalem Post reported Sunday.
The researchers say the discovery in the Qesem Cave may change the widely held perception that modern man originated on the continent of Africa.
The Qesem find, along with archaeological evidence and human skeletons found in Spain and China, may cause scientists to reconsider current thinking that homo sapiens came out of Africa just 200,000 years ago, the researchers say.
The culture of the Qesem Cave dwellers, including the production of flint blades, the use of fire, evidence of hunting and cutting animal meat, mining raw materials to produce flint tools and much more suggest this was behavior that corresponds with the appearance of modern man, the Tel Aviv scientists say.
Science News
Discovery may push back age of modern man
Published: Dec. 27, 2010 at 5:26 PM
TEL AVIV, Israel, Dec. 27 (UPI) -- Scientists say they've found the world's earliest evidence of modern man, Homo sapiens, living in what is now Israel twice as long ago as previously thought.
Researchers from Tel Aviv University found eight human teeth at least 400,000 years old at the prehistoric Qesem Cave site near Rosh Ha'ayin, The Jerusalem Post reported Sunday.
The researchers say the discovery in the Qesem Cave may change the widely held perception that modern man originated on the continent of Africa.
The Qesem find, along with archaeological evidence and human skeletons found in Spain and China, may cause scientists to reconsider current thinking that homo sapiens came out of Africa just 200,000 years ago, the researchers say.
The culture of the Qesem Cave dwellers, including the production of flint blades, the use of fire, evidence of hunting and cutting animal meat, mining raw materials to produce flint tools and much more suggest this was behavior that corresponds with the appearance of modern man, the Tel Aviv scientists say.
Hi GB,
The article tells us, A Tel Aviv University team excavating a cave in central Israel said teeth found in the cave are about 400,000 years old and resemble those of other remains of modern man, known scientifically as Homo sapiens, found in Israel. The earliest Homo sapiens remains found until now are half as old.
"'It's very exciting to come to this conclusion," said archaeologist Avi Gopher, whose team examined the teeth with X-rays and CT scans and dated them according to the layers of earth where they were found.
What they are not taking into account is Noah's Flood. The flood, being a worldwide flood, would have rearranged many layers and aspects of the earth's surface.
This is why dating based upon geographical strata is not reliable.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
The article tells us, A Tel Aviv University team excavating a cave in central Israel said teeth found in the cave are about 400,000 years old and resemble those of other remains of modern man, known scientifically as Homo sapiens, found in Israel. The earliest Homo sapiens remains found until now are half as old.
"'It's very exciting to come to this conclusion," said archaeologist Avi Gopher, whose team examined the teeth with X-rays and CT scans and dated them according to the layers of earth where they were found.
What they are not taking into account is Noah's Flood. The flood, being a worldwide flood, would have rearranged many layers and aspects of the earth's surface.
This is why dating based upon geographical strata is not reliable.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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*sigh* Well SOME of us have evolved...
quote:Originally posted by b50m:
A follow up which I think gives the problem for the evolutionists. So much for Eve of Africa.
Science News
Discovery may push back age of modern man
Published: Dec. 27, 2010 at 5:26 PM
TEL AVIV, Israel, Dec. 27 (UPI) -- Scientists say they've found the world's earliest evidence of modern man, Homo sapiens, living in what is now Israel twice as long ago as previously thought.
Researchers from Tel Aviv University found eight human teeth at least 400,000 years old at the prehistoric Qesem Cave site near Rosh Ha'ayin, The Jerusalem Post reported Sunday.
The researchers say the discovery in the Qesem Cave may change the widely held perception that modern man originated on the continent of Africa.
The Qesem find, along with archaeological evidence and human skeletons found in Spain and China, may cause scientists to reconsider current thinking that homo sapiens came out of Africa just 200,000 years ago, the researchers say.
The culture of the Qesem Cave dwellers, including the production of flint blades, the use of fire, evidence of hunting and cutting animal meat, mining raw materials to produce flint tools and much more suggest this was behavior that corresponds with the appearance of modern man, the Tel Aviv scientists say.
Hi B,
There is very good reason to believe that the Garden of Eden was actually in North Eastern Africa; which would mean that Adam and Eve were created in the land which would become Africa.
Not sure I would give a lot of credence to the 200,000 or 400,000 year dating -- since the flood happened about 4500 years ago and this event totally changed all earth geophysical strata.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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Interesting article. I'm skeptical. This one find, if it's legit, pushes back the evolution of homo sapiens 2-4 times as long as all the other evidence suggests.
Keep an eye open.
nsns
Keep an eye open.
nsns
GB,
this is a very preliminary discovery. more testing is needed. however, i think that, once the data is verified, it is one of the most exciting finds in recent history. the scientific community (unlike the religious community) absolutely loves it when "everything we know" is turned upside-downards.
that does not happen very often.
this is a very preliminary discovery. more testing is needed. however, i think that, once the data is verified, it is one of the most exciting finds in recent history. the scientific community (unlike the religious community) absolutely loves it when "everything we know" is turned upside-downards.
that does not happen very often.
Bill,
How would you explain a flood of only 4500 years ago affecting strata layers from 400,000 years ago?
Here is an interesting view of Flood Geology.
http://www.atlantaapologist.or...ers/floodgeology.htm
How would you explain a flood of only 4500 years ago affecting strata layers from 400,000 years ago?
Here is an interesting view of Flood Geology.
http://www.atlantaapologist.or...ers/floodgeology.htm
Interesting article, b. Mr. Roberts doesn't go far enough, however. He claims to believe in a Great Flood, but if there was one, surely there would be evidence for it.
There's not.
Still, I admire his honesty, as far as it went.
nsns
There's not.
Still, I admire his honesty, as far as it went.
nsns
I thought he did quite well. He proved that the actual effect of a great flood is not evident on the earth. So for one to have wiped mankind off the earth, it had to be a supernatural event.
Now of course, that works for religious folks except those like Bill who tried to say there is evidence of a flood by geographical means. There is not.
More of that faith stuff.
Now of course, that works for religious folks except those like Bill who tried to say there is evidence of a flood by geographical means. There is not.
More of that faith stuff.
On the "Post a Comment" - earbob said - If we would all just give up religion,
the world would be a much kinder and gentler place.
I'm thinking more religious people would be better.
Inv.
.
the world would be a much kinder and gentler place.
I'm thinking more religious people would be better.
Inv.
.
I'd have to agree with earbob. I'm finding atheists are much kinder and gentler than believers. At least on this forum that is. I wonder about the difference in some of the "christians" here and in "real life." Makes me think religion must be a refuge, or last resort, for some.
quote:Originally posted by b50m:
I thought he did quite well. He proved that the actual effect of a great flood is not evident on the earth. So for one to have wiped mankind off the earth, it had to be a supernatural event.
Now of course, that works for religious folks except those like Bill who tried to say there is evidence of a flood by geographical means. There is not.
More of that faith stuff.
He did quite well, I compliment him. I still insist, however, that he complete his examination of the alleged Great Flood and show us what should be obvious and profound evidence for it. You must admit that a flood that washed the top of Mt. Everest would leave traces of its existence.
nsns
quote:quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
I thought he did quite well. He proved that the actual effect of a great flood is not evident on the earth. So for one to have wiped mankind off the earth, it had to be a supernatural event.
Now of course, that works for religious folks except those like Bill who tried to say there is evidence of a flood by geographical means. There is not.
More of that faith stuff.
quote:Sez Slim:
He did quite well, I compliment him. I still insist, however, that he complete his examination of the alleged Great Flood and show us what should be obvious and profound evidence for it. You must admit that a flood that washed the top of Mt. Everest would leave traces of its existence.
nsns
I agree. Evidence, say...so obvious and profound as we have for dinosaurs evolving into ...birds?
Cagey,
There's lots of perfectly good evidence for that! You see dinosaurs every day.
You could look it up.
Happy New Year!
nsns
There's lots of perfectly good evidence for that! You see dinosaurs every day.
You could look it up.
Happy New Year!
nsns
quote:Cagey,
There's lots of perfectly good evidence for that! You see dinosaurs every day.
You could look it up.
Happy New Year!
nsns
I have. There isn't. Just speculation.
It IS almost New Year...I almost forgot...
Nappy Hew Hear!...That's how it will sound at that moment.
the most cursory googling yielded this: http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/ast123/index.html
birds are dinosaurs.
nsns
birds are dinosaurs.
nsns
A dinosaur was a specific animal. A bird is a specific animal. Where are the gradual ancestoral examples?
Where is the consistency of that evolution?
We have fossils of dinos. We have birds.
With the randomness of evolution, and even given the "rejecting" of the mutations that weren't "bird friendly" there should be mountains of transitions.
(Unless, of course, the "Great Flood" washed them all away...4500 years ago!)
Where is the consistency of that evolution?
We have fossils of dinos. We have birds.
With the randomness of evolution, and even given the "rejecting" of the mutations that weren't "bird friendly" there should be mountains of transitions.
(Unless, of course, the "Great Flood" washed them all away...4500 years ago!)
LOL, cage.
This should be good.
This should be good.
quote:Originally posted by b50m:
Bill,
How would you explain a flood of only 4500 years ago affecting strata layers from 400,000 years ago?
Here is an interesting view of Flood Geology.
http://www.atlantaapologist.or...ers/floodgeology.htm
Hi B,
We are not sure who this writer is nor his credentials. However, he does have some good points.
Yet, he keeps referring to known flood results and all known flood results which man has gathered information -- have been localized, or regional, floods.
Only one time in history has there been a world wide flood -- which covered the entire earth so that the water level was above the mountain peaks. That is pretty deep water.
No one knows what a flood of this nature could do -- for, none of our scientists have seen such a flood.
So, yes, Noah's flood, which lasted for one year, was deeper than the mountain tops -- could have rearranged all the sediment, all the soil, all the rocks -- on earth.
You ask how that could have affected what could have been done 400,000 years ago (if that were possible) -- when Noah's flood was only 4500 years ago. Just like a flood today; whatever has been laying around for many years -- will get rearranged when a flood occurs. And, this is what happened, world wide, with the flood of Noah.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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Only one time in history has there been a world wide flood -- which covered the entire earth so that the water level was above the mountain peaks. That is pretty deep water
If the entire world was covered in water, where did the flood waters recede too? Where did it go?
If the entire world was covered in water, where did the flood waters recede too? Where did it go?
Well, I am, for one pleased by the article as the Urantia Book says that humanity first evolved in Asia about 1 million years ago. Getting closer!
quote:Originally posted by bluetick:
Only one time in history has there been a world wide flood -- which covered the entire earth so that the water level was above the mountain peaks. That is pretty deep water
If the entire world was covered in water, where did the flood waters recede too? Where did it go?
That there is a darn good point, blue.
'God' musta had one HELLUVA Krazy Straw....
The whole notion of Noah’s flood came from the period of Babylonian captivity, where, as a moral building measure, the Jewish scholars of the time re-wrote, basically, their entire history. They had, as historical facts (though greatly distorted) the life of David, the life of Abraham, the onetime life of Adam, and even further back the hazy traditions of Daliamatia (spelling?) which lingered even to those times, mainly thru the Sumerians. After failing to be able to place the lineage of David into direct correlation with Adam, one of these scholars decided that it would be easier to create a onetime flood, which would allow the world to drown in its own wickedness, and thus to create a direct line for David through one of Noah’s sons. And the other scholars agreed to this.
What is interesting is that the Jewish people of that day saw these things for what they were, a moral building exercise for an enslaved race. It fell to later day generations to assemble these and other texts into the “inerrant word of God”.
But Noah really lived!
He was a Sumerian winemaker in Erich (spelling?), and he was greatly interested in the current (back then) rising of the local rivers, caused by geological shifts in the world climate. Every year he would warn his neighbors about the rising rivers, and eventually counseled that the families should build homes in the form of a houseboat, herding their animals on board each night for protection. Eventually there came a year where the sudden rise of the river washed away all his neighbors. Only Noah and his family were saved, along with their animals, in their houseboat.
So, you see, there is a grain of truth in every myth!
Al
What is interesting is that the Jewish people of that day saw these things for what they were, a moral building exercise for an enslaved race. It fell to later day generations to assemble these and other texts into the “inerrant word of God”.
But Noah really lived!
He was a Sumerian winemaker in Erich (spelling?), and he was greatly interested in the current (back then) rising of the local rivers, caused by geological shifts in the world climate. Every year he would warn his neighbors about the rising rivers, and eventually counseled that the families should build homes in the form of a houseboat, herding their animals on board each night for protection. Eventually there came a year where the sudden rise of the river washed away all his neighbors. Only Noah and his family were saved, along with their animals, in their houseboat.
So, you see, there is a grain of truth in every myth!
Al
quote:Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
A dinosaur was a specific animal. A bird is a specific animal. Where are the gradual ancestoral examples?
Where is the consistency of that evolution?
We have fossils of dinos. We have birds.
With the randomness of evolution, and even given the "rejecting" of the mutations that weren't "bird friendly" there should be mountains of transitions.
(Unless, of course, the "Great Flood" washed them all away...4500 years ago!)
cage, cage, cage.
there is insurmountable evidence that all large animals (and plants) on the face of the earth were wiped out by a asteroid/comet 65 million years ago. the only things left alive were those animals and plants that could live on the decaying detritus. this happened, cage. we are even "reptty sure" we know where the crater is located (off the yucatan pennensula). the only "dinosaurs" that survived were very small creatures hat looked like miniature t-rex. it is those dinosaurs that speciated into the animals we call "birds" today. when you see a bird, you are actually seeing a living dinosaur.
and, of course, the event allowed small furry mammals (who were able to reaming warm while the earth was went through a long cold spell because of all the crap stirred up by the cosmic event in the atmosphere blocking out the sun) to take over the earth and eventually result in you and me.
inside of every bird is a dinosaur. true story. there is a scientist that recently sequences the genome of a chicken and found the genese that "turn on" scales, long tails and teeth. he plans to stoek a chicken embryo inot developing into a (LINK) pint sized dinosaur. this isn't much of a leap as one might imagine because chickens (and all birds) actually meet all the anatomical definitions we use to define "dinosaur."
quote:Originally posted by alwilliams767:
The whole notion of Noah’s flood came from the period of Babylonian captivity,
al, please cite a reference for this claim?
it is pretty well established that the story is a plagiarization of earlier stories such as the sumarian "epic of Gilgamesh" mixed with some elements of a few other ancient flood stories from other civilizations.
just as the jesus myth was a re-telling of other very similar stories.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
So, yes, Noah's flood, which lasted for one year, was deeper than the mountain tops -- could have rearranged all the sediment, all the soil, all the rocks -- on earth.
god must really be a showman. with infinite power, he could have simply stopped the hearts of every man, woman and child except for his chosen few. that would be a humane way to go. instead, he created a spectacle that hollywood could never top and sat up there and watch (with a big grin on His face) as millions of women, children and babies and gods and cats and giraffes and lemurs died in a horrible panic. i guess he made this show just to show a few family members and friends that he has the powah. then he admits to his mistake by erecting a rainbow.
yeah that makes perfect sense. jesus christ you people actually worship such a "infinitely loving" being? WAKE UP!
quote:Originally posted by b50m:
Bill,
How would you explain a flood of only 4500 years ago affecting strata layers from 400,000 years ago?
Here is an interesting view of Flood Geology.
http://www.atlantaapologist.or...ers/floodgeology.htm
You must have forgotten. Bill does not answer questions.
quote:Originally posted by alwilliams767:
The whole notion of Noah’s flood came from the period of Babylonian captivity, where, as a moral building measure, the Jewish scholars of the time re-wrote, basically, their entire history. They had, as historical facts (though greatly distorted) the life of David, the life of Abraham, the onetime life of Adam, and even further back the hazy traditions of Daliamatia (spelling?) which lingered even to those times, mainly thru the Sumerians. After failing to be able to place the lineage of David into direct correlation with Adam, one of these scholars decided that it would be easier to create a onetime flood, which would allow the world to drown in its own wickedness, and thus to create a direct line for David through one of Noah’s sons. And the other scholars agreed to this.
What is interesting is that the Jewish people of that day saw these things for what they were, a moral building exercise for an enslaved race. It fell to later day generations to assemble these and other texts into the “inerrant word of God”.
But Noah really lived!
He was a Sumerian winemaker in Erich (spelling?), and he was greatly interested in the current (back then) rising of the local rivers, caused by geological shifts in the world climate. Every year he would warn his neighbors about the rising rivers, and eventually counseled that the families should build homes in the form of a houseboat, herding their animals on board each night for protection. Eventually there came a year where the sudden rise of the river washed away all his neighbors. Only Noah and his family were saved, along with their animals, in their houseboat.
So, you see, there is a grain of truth in every myth!
Al
quote:Beyond this place of wrath and tears, Is a better place.
Keep dreamin if that makes you feel better. Me? I'll live in reality where no magical beings exist and no mansions of gold in the sky.
quote:inside of every bird is a dinosaur. true story. there is a scientist that recently sequences the genome of a chicken and found the genese that "turn on" scales, long tails and teeth. he plans to stoek a chicken embryo inot developing into a (LINK) pint sized dinosaur. this isn't much of a leap as one might imagine because chickens (and all birds) actually meet all the anatomical definitions we use to define "dinosaur."
LOL! Unob, I saw "Jurassic Park" a long time ago
It is a movie. It is not reality.
Try again.
quote:yeah that makes perfect sense. jesus christ you people actually worship such a "infinitely loving" being? WAKE UP!
Worship, and call him loving and merciful, and can't wait to go see him. Yikes!
The surprising truth
Of course the fatal flaw in the idea that giant dinosaurs still lurk in remote jungles or cold, deep lakes is that all the evidence suggests they died out about 65 million years ago. Many of the lakes said to hide dinosaurs were created only about 10,000 years ago.
If dinosaurs had existed up until much more recently — say, the Nixon administration or even Shakespeare's time — the likelihood of a few remaining, lonely huge dinosaurs might be plausible. But 65 million years is a long time for giant dinosaurs to live and die without leaving any recent fossils.
Yet scientifically speaking, not all dinosaurs died out. Most of us see dinosaurs every day, and some people even have them in their homes. Birds are the modern version of dinosaurs, though seeing Will Ferrell or Jeff Goldblum running terrified from an approaching pigeon just isn't very dramatic.
http://www.livescience.com/str...world-dinosaurs.html
Of course the fatal flaw in the idea that giant dinosaurs still lurk in remote jungles or cold, deep lakes is that all the evidence suggests they died out about 65 million years ago. Many of the lakes said to hide dinosaurs were created only about 10,000 years ago.
If dinosaurs had existed up until much more recently — say, the Nixon administration or even Shakespeare's time — the likelihood of a few remaining, lonely huge dinosaurs might be plausible. But 65 million years is a long time for giant dinosaurs to live and die without leaving any recent fossils.
Yet scientifically speaking, not all dinosaurs died out. Most of us see dinosaurs every day, and some people even have them in their homes. Birds are the modern version of dinosaurs, though seeing Will Ferrell or Jeff Goldblum running terrified from an approaching pigeon just isn't very dramatic.
http://www.livescience.com/str...world-dinosaurs.html
quote:Sez Jennifer:
The surprising truth
Of course the fatal flaw in the idea that giant dinosaurs still lurk in remote jungles or cold, deep lakes is that all the evidence suggests they died out about 65 million years ago. Many of the lakes said to hide dinosaurs were created only about 10,000 years ago.
If dinosaurs had existed up until much more recently — say, the Nixon administration or even Shakespeare's time — the likelihood of a few remaining, lonely huge dinosaurs might be plausible. But 65 million years is a long time for giant dinosaurs to live and die without leaving any recent fossils.
Yet scientifically speaking, not all dinosaurs died out. Most of us see dinosaurs every day, and some people even have them in their homes. Birds are the modern version of dinosaurs, though seeing Will Ferrell or Jeff Goldblum running terrified from an approaching pigeon just isn't very dramatic.
http://www.livescience.com/str...world-dinosaurs.html
Are you sure you want to get involved in this?
It will be more than just "opinion".
Always wondered about these things too. Hard to believe they're only "cousins".
Prehistoric Crocodiles - The Ancient Cousins of the Dinosaurs
Everything You Ever Needed to Know About Crocodile Evolution
Of all the reptiles alive today, crocodiles and alligators may be the least changed from their prehistoric ancestors of the late Cretaceous period, over 65 million years ago--although the even earlier crocodiles of the Triassic and Jurassic periods sported some distinctly un-crocodile-like features, such as bipedal postures and vegetarian diets. (See a gallery of prehistoric crocodile pictures.)
http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/...s/a/crocodilians.htm
Prehistoric Crocodiles - The Ancient Cousins of the Dinosaurs
Everything You Ever Needed to Know About Crocodile Evolution
Of all the reptiles alive today, crocodiles and alligators may be the least changed from their prehistoric ancestors of the late Cretaceous period, over 65 million years ago--although the even earlier crocodiles of the Triassic and Jurassic periods sported some distinctly un-crocodile-like features, such as bipedal postures and vegetarian diets. (See a gallery of prehistoric crocodile pictures.)
http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/...s/a/crocodilians.htm
quote:Originally posted by CageTheElephant:quote:inside of every bird is a dinosaur. true story. there is a scientist that recently sequences the genome of a chicken and found the genese that "turn on" scales, long tails and teeth. he plans to stoek a chicken embryo inot developing into a (LINK) pint sized dinosaur. this isn't much of a leap as one might imagine because chickens (and all birds) actually meet all the anatomical definitions we use to define "dinosaur."
LOL! Unob, I saw "Jurassic Park" a long time ago
It is a movie. It is not reality.
Try again.
It SCIENCE cage.
quote:It SCIENCE cage.
I'm open. Roll out the sequence, Ubob.
quote:I'm open. Roll out the sequence, Ubob.
Sorry UNOB...they shouldn't ah put tha' damm B buy the N on this moving keyboard!