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He is a very good speaker. His voice is so unique. The Wake Up America vid is also good.
Glad to see he holds his 'brothers' who are not Catholic in high esteem as well.
Glad to see he holds his 'brothers' who are not Catholic in high esteem as well.
Yes, Bill, you are so comfortable that you have no idea what a true Christian is. But....one day God is going to fill you in. Then it will be too late for you.
quote:Originally posted by semiannualchick:
Yes, Bill, you are so comfortable that you have no idea what a true Christian is. But....one day God is going to fill you in. Then it will be too late for you.
CHICK, I DID NOT REALIZE YOU ARE ROMAN CATHOLIC! - SURPRISE! SURPRISE! SURPRISE!
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quote:Personally, I am more comfortable in a church that is a Bible-teaching, CHRIST-centered church.
You just don't get it- we believe CHRIST is Present in the EUCHARIST! That is where we share in His Covenant!
So, YES Jesus is the Center of the Church.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi VP,
Interesting, he tells us, "The Eucharist is the source of the church's life."
Personally, I am more comfortable in a church that is a Bible-teaching, CHRIST-centered church.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Here is a very good example of Bill lying.
He always contends that VP is unnecessarily antagonizing him and what he say on here. Yet this is his response to her posting about her faith.
To say that the catholic church is not bible/christ centered is a lie. He knows that but yet he still lies and says otherwise.
I don't believe in any religion but I am getting pretty tired of Bill's my way or no way attitude on here.
Bill, is it 1981 yet? Why are you still here?
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by semiannualchick:
Yes, Bill, you are so comfortable that you have no idea what a true Christian is. But....one day God is going to fill you in. Then it will be too late for you.
CHICK, I DID NOT REALIZE YOU ARE ROMAN CATHOLIC! - SURPRISE! SURPRISE! SURPRISE!
bg,
Jesus said "work to earn food which affords, continually, eternal life"
(J n6:27). " our fathers had manna to eat in the desert". (Jn 6:31)
Jesus told them "the real bread from heaven comes from the
Father."The Disciples said "Give us this bread". Jesus told
them "It is I who am the bread of life" (Jn 6:34-35) Jesus said,
I myself am the bread that comes down from heaven.
If anyone eats of this bread, He shall live forever. It is
my flesh, given for the life of the world ( Jn 6:51-52)
My flesh is real food, my blood is real drink. He who eats my
flesh and drinks my blood, lives continually in me, and
I in him" (Jn 6:54-57).There were no attempts to soften what he said.
No attempt to correct misunderstandings, for there were none.
Jesus said " Do this in rememberance of me". Jesus said so much about
this it can't be denied.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi VP,
Interesting, he tells us, "The Eucharist is the source of the church's life."
Personally, I am more comfortable in a church that is a Bible-teaching, CHRIST-centered church.
bg,
To eat the Bible is not the same thing. You LOL at Jesus and what he is
saiding, Disreguard what he teaches and then tell him he has it wrong.
So your more comfortable in denial. Your the bible pagan make
up your mind. Is the Bible right or not?
Hi VP,
Interesting, he tells us, "The Eucharist is the source of the church's life."
Personally, I am more comfortable in a church that is a Bible-teaching, CHRIST-centered church.
bg,
To eat the Bible is not the same thing. You LOL at Jesus and what he is
saiding, Disreguard what he teaches and then tell him he has it wrong.
So your more comfortable in denial. Your the bible pagan make
up your mind. Is the Bible right or not?
Why don't all of you answer a simple question: Are catholic people saved?
Why don't all of you answer a simple question: Are catholic people saved?
Because it's not simple.
Are all Baptists saved?
All Presbyterian?
All Methodist?
There are saved and unsaved people around the world, and unlike Bill, I don't think they have to be Christian or any particular flavor of religion.
Because it's not simple.
Are all Baptists saved?
All Presbyterian?
All Methodist?
There are saved and unsaved people around the world, and unlike Bill, I don't think they have to be Christian or any particular flavor of religion.
Veep, of COURSE he gets it! But you know by now that Bill Gray would rather antagonize you than anyone else. I think it's because he is jealous. Everybody else here loves and admires you and he can't stand that!
And renecillo, of COURSE Catholics are saved! They believe Christ died for their sins. And they go one step further, which ic another thing that bothers Bill Gray - they continue all day, every day, to try to be better people. Even Bill Gray has stated many times that Catholics are saved. He has stated that we who are saved are brothers and sisters in Christ. But you can see how he treats his "sister" Veep.
He must be jealous of his "sister", you know, kind of a sibling rivalry. Only Veep is too mature to stoop to his level.
And renecillo, of COURSE Catholics are saved! They believe Christ died for their sins. And they go one step further, which ic another thing that bothers Bill Gray - they continue all day, every day, to try to be better people. Even Bill Gray has stated many times that Catholics are saved. He has stated that we who are saved are brothers and sisters in Christ. But you can see how he treats his "sister" Veep.
He must be jealous of his "sister", you know, kind of a sibling rivalry. Only Veep is too mature to stoop to his level.
quote:Originally posted by renecillo7:
Why don't all of you answer a simple question: Are catholic people saved?
ren-
Theirs' is a large number, so many will fall.
quote:Originally posted by semiannualchick:
Yes, Bill, you are so comfortable that you have no idea what a true Christian is. But....one day God is going to fill you in. Then it will be too late for you.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
CHICK, I DID NOT REALIZE YOU ARE ROMAN CATHOLIC! - SURPRISE! SURPRISE! SURPRISE!
Stupid man.............
quote:As I have often said, when interpreting the Bible -- first, we read a passage or verse literally to see if it makes sense in the literal interpretation. If it does not, we look at a symbolic or metaphorical meaning.
I see, so the Bible is inerrant and literal unless YOU decide it is metaphorical.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gifted Child:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi VP, Interesting, he tells us, "The Eucharist is the source of the church's life." Personally, I am more comfortable in a church that is a Bible-teaching, CHRIST-centered church. God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill
bg,
Hi Child,
Roman Catholics justify this false teaching with the Scripture passage found in John 6:53-55, "So Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.'"
So, using this simple rule of hermeneutics, we must look for a symbolic or metaphorical understanding of this passage. His body and His blood represent the Word of God. We must be in the Word of God daily; we must be (not literally, Child) eating and drinking the Word of God. And, we must be in the Word of God until He returns to Rapture His church, His body of believers, His Bride.
bg----
You need to leave this alone. It's way over you head, about
a mile over. YOU insult everything holy with your god complex. all the made up
stuff off the top of your head. This entire answer is false. Your're foaming
at the mouth with this mindless dribble. I hate to see you talk about some things
because of how much hate is in you. I hope you think you're right.
Your not. So I hope that much more.
Bill, question for you. Why is it when you interprete a passage in the bible, your version is always right, but anytime anyone else interpretes a passage, they are always wrong?
You know, at the Last Supper, so many were unable to comprehend what Jesus was saying. How could this man mean to eat the flesh and drink the blood? How...and they left.
Only those who open their hearts to truly listen stayed, to partake with Jesus in the Institution of the Eucharist.
Jesus stood His ground, and explained the New and Everlasting Covenant.
He did not waver, or say, "well its just a symbol, wait don't leave.."
He said'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.'"
He meant it.
Bill, I hope your spirituality deepens to where you may someday understand this. An attack on the Eucharist is an attack on Jesus Himself.
May God have mercy on us all!
Only those who open their hearts to truly listen stayed, to partake with Jesus in the Institution of the Eucharist.
Jesus stood His ground, and explained the New and Everlasting Covenant.
He did not waver, or say, "well its just a symbol, wait don't leave.."
He said'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.'"
He meant it.
Bill, I hope your spirituality deepens to where you may someday understand this. An attack on the Eucharist is an attack on Jesus Himself.
May God have mercy on us all!
I think if we just ignore Bill's ramblings, we could actually discuss some topics.
Anybody want to take a stab at the giants again in the wives thread?
Anybody want to take a stab at the giants again in the wives thread?
quote:Originally posted by O No!:quote:As I have often said, when interpreting the Bible -- first, we read a passage or verse literally to see if it makes sense in the literal interpretation. If it does not, we look at a symbolic or metaphorical meaning.
I see, so the Bible is inerrant and literal unless YOU decide it is metaphorical.
Yes! Yes, yes, yes yes yesyesyes... YES! That has always been his contention, Saint Bill has spoken, so should it be understood.
quote:Originally posted by renecillo7:
Why don't all of you answer a simple question: Are catholic people saved?
Hi Ren,
This is such an important, such a pertinent question -- that I have used it to begin a new discussion. Your question is too important to allow it to be buried or lost in the middle of another discussion where "spitting" has already begun.
Take a look at "Who Is Saved? - How Are We Saved?"
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Originally posted by vplee123:
You know, at the Last Supper, so many were unable to comprehend what Jesus was saying. How could this man mean to eat the flesh and drink the blood? How...and they left.
Only those who open their hearts to truly listen stayed, to partake with Jesus in the Institution of the Eucharist.
Jesus stood His ground, and explained the New and Everlasting Covenant.
He did not waver, or say, "well its just a symbol, wait don't leave.."
He said'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.'"
He meant it.
Bill, I hope your spirituality deepens to where you may someday understand this. An attack on the Eucharist is an attack on Jesus Himself.
May God have mercy on us all!
Veep,
I'm not attacking anybody, but you'll understand if I think cannibalism is uncivilized.
If the Eucharist really is the essential foundation of Christianity, then count me out.
Glad we've come to terms on this.
quote:Originally posted by Gifted Child:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by Gifted Child:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi VP, Interesting, he tells us, "The Eucharist is the source of the church's life." Personally, I am more comfortable in a church that is a Bible-teaching, CHRIST-centered church. God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill
bg, To eat the Bible is not the same thing. You LOL (?) at Jesus and what he is saiding (sic), Disreguard (sic) what he teaches and then tell him he has it wrong. So your (sic) more comfortable in denial. Your (sic) the bible pagan make up your mind. Is the Bible right or not?
Hi Child,
Quite honestly, I have never tried EATING my Bible. I read it; I study it; sometimes, I even fall asleep while reading it and sleep with it. But, even seasoned with good salsa, I have never EATEN it!
And, I can assure you this -- I have NEVER eaten Jesus Christ! I worship Him, I adore Him, I pray to Him, I sing to Him -- I do many things in His name. But, I have NEVER eaten Him. Can anyone imagine how BIG the Human Body of Jesus Christ would have to be -- for billions of people to EAT His body and DRINK His blood every day for 2000 years? Wow!
Roman Catholics justify this false teaching with the Scripture passage found in John 6:53-55, "So Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.'"
As I have often said, when interpreting the Bible -- first, we read a passage or verse literally to see if it makes sense in the literal interpretation. If it does not, we look at a symbolic or metaphorical meaning.
Using that hermeneutical approach, we read that Jesus said, "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life. . ." Now, since He was standing there, alive, among them -- when He said this -- was He telling them to kill Him and eat Him then? Of course not! Was He telling them that, after He was crucified, they should carve up His body and eat it then? Of course not!
So, using this simple rule of hermeneutics, we must look for a symbolic or metaphorical understanding of this passage. His body and His blood represent the Word of God. We must be in the Word of God daily; we must be (not literally, Child) eating and drinking the Word of God. And, we must be in the Word of God until He returns to Rapture His church, His body of believers, His Bride.
This is the meaning of that passage -- not that we should literally be eating His body and drinking His blood.
bg ---- You need to leave this alone. It's way over you head, about a mile over. YOU insult everything holy with your god complex. all the made up stuff off the top of your head. This entire answer is false. Your're foaming at the mouth with this mindless dribble. I hate to see you talk about some things because of how much hate is in you. I hope you think you're right. Your not. So I hope that much more.
Hi Child,
I have given you a good Biblical and theological response. And, all you can do is to stand up like a child, stick your tongue out, and scream, "You are wrong! You are wrong!"
Unless you want to live up to your name -- when you say that I am wrong -- give me solid Biblical proof. If not, you are just a child ranting and crying.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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Thanks Bill! I agree that it is pertinent. My parents are Catholics and I am Church of Christ and I am glad you decided to chime in and answer!
NP, Billy Joe, Bill said it is not really anything but Koolaid and a cracker.
Bon Appetit!
Bon Appetit!
b,
It really is no more than grape juice and a cracker.
But let's cut Veep some slack. It become the literal body and blood of Jesus at some point during the ritual.
Absurd as this sounds, a billion people believe it.
If it is true, then Catholics are cannibals. If it is not true, then the essential tenet of Catholicism is untrue.
Either way, I want nothing to do with them, religion wise.
It really is no more than grape juice and a cracker.
But let's cut Veep some slack. It become the literal body and blood of Jesus at some point during the ritual.
Absurd as this sounds, a billion people believe it.
If it is true, then Catholics are cannibals. If it is not true, then the essential tenet of Catholicism is untrue.
Either way, I want nothing to do with them, religion wise.
quote:But let's cut Veep some slack. It become the literal body and blood of Jesus at some point during the ritual.
Absurd as this sounds, a billion people believe it.
Thanks, BCBG, (I think).
It's actually at the Eucharistic Prayer, the priest calls the Holy Spirit, and transubstantiation occurs. THAT is why we kneel- not to pray to statues, as certain people have said, but out of respect for the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.
And you're right- 1.2 Billion people believe it, worldwide.
Bill believe it or not ,a lot of Christians that are not Catholics actually believe the Bible.
Matt.26:26-27-28
......Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to his disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is my body"
27-28 And He took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying,"Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sin"
Matt.26:26-27-28
......Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to his disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is my body"
27-28 And He took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying,"Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sin"
Bill will never agree with the scripture. That is one of those 'symbols'.
So true b50m. Half Calvin/half Arminians obviously get a pass when it comes to subscribing to a literal, inerrant version of the Bible for those things they just don't agree with.
It seems that they are most adamantly against the portions of the Bible that would cause them to hold a ticket to hell.
It seems that they are most adamantly against the portions of the Bible that would cause them to hold a ticket to hell.
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:
It's actually at the Eucharistic Prayer, the priest calls the Holy Spirit, and transubstantiation occurs. THAT is why we kneel- not to pray to statues, as certain people have said, but out of respect for the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. nd you're right- 1.2 Billion people believe it, worldwide.
Hi VP,
But, what are you doing when you are kneeling in front of the statues of Saint this or that? Are you kneeling there just to rest -- or to pray to that statue?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Originally posted by themax:
Bill believe it or not ,a lot of Christians that are not Catholics actually believe the Bible. Matt.26:26-27-28
......Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to his disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is my body"
27-28 And He took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying,"Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sin"
So, Max,
Do YOU believe in transubstantiation, that the wafer actually becomes the human body of Jesus Christ -- and that the juice actually becomes the human blood of Jesus Christ?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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Bill, I'm going to say I understand your big word.
But I will say that to a Christian that believes what Jesus said then the answer would be yes.
Jesus said it and I believe Him.
But I will say that to a Christian that believes what Jesus said then the answer would be yes.
Jesus said it and I believe Him.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by themax:
Bill believe it or not ,a lot of Christians that are not Catholics actually believe the Bible. Matt.26:26-27-28
......Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to his disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is my body"
27-28 And He took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying,"Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sin"
So, Max,
Do YOU believe in transubstantiation, that the wafer actually becomes the human body of Jesus Christ -- and that the juice actually becomes the human blood of Jesus Christ?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Bill Gray
So what your saying is Jesus can't do what he says he can. you don't believe
God can place his essence in a stupid wafer? He's God and he hasn't lied yet.
Not in the Bible that I know of.
omnipresent! He is everywhere at the same time.
So if we can comprehend omnipresence, that is a good first step in understanding how He can be present in the Eucharist.
So if we can comprehend omnipresence, that is a good first step in understanding how He can be present in the Eucharist.
quote:Originally posted by INVICTUS:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by themax:
Bill believe it or not ,a lot of Christians that are not Catholics actually believe the Bible. Matt.26:26-27-28 ......Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to his disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is my body" 27-28 And He took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying,"Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sin"
So, Max,
Do YOU believe in transubstantiation, that the wafer actually becomes the human body of Jesus Christ -- and that the juice actually becomes the human blood of Jesus Christ?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill
Bill Gray, So what your saying is Jesus can't do what he says he can. you don't believe God can place his essence in a stupid wafer? He's God and he hasn't lied yet. Not in the Bible that I know of.
Hi Vic,
Just what do YOU mean when you say "God can place His essence in a stupid wafer"?
What do YOU mean by "His essence"?
I just want to makes sure we are on the same page and same meaning.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by INVICTUS:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by themax:
Bill believe it or not ,a lot of Christians that are not Catholics actually believe the Bible. Matt.26:26-27-28 ......Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to his disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is my body" 27-28 And He took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying,"Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sin"
So, Max,
Do YOU believe in transubstantiation, that the wafer actually becomes the human body of Jesus Christ -- and that the juice actually becomes the human blood of Jesus Christ?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill
Bill Gray, So what your saying is Jesus can't do what he says he can. you don't believe God can place his essence in a stupid wafer? He's God and he hasn't lied yet. Not in the Bible that I know of.
Hi Vic,
Just what do YOU mean when you say "God can place His essence in a stupid wafer"?
What do YOU mean by "His essence"?
I just want to makes sure we are on the same page and same meaning.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Hi Bil,
The only essence I know of would be the most important part of it. The inherent
element that makes it what it is, In this case the spiritual supernatural being
of the person Jesus Christ. It sounds funny when you talk about real body and
blood. I'm not Catholic yet, But I have come is believe it's an actural moment
for Jesus to touch my soul. One of the best things he did for all of us.
quote:But I have come is believe it's an actural moment
for Jesus to touch my soul.
Absolutely!
Its a beautiful thing, Invictus. The essence is the entirety- Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.
Every aspect of our Lord. And we have the privelege to enter into the Covenant with Him at that moment.
When people say Body and Blood, it paints such a strange picture- you have nailed it with "THE ESSENCE". Everything that Jesus is- Man, and Divine God. All in one perfect package.
The Gospel according to John, chapter 6
60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you that do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. 65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." 66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. 67 Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also wish to go away?" 68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God
Many of even the ones close to Jesus had trouble understanding that He is the bread of life- the flesh- so Jesus made it clear, and many disciples left.
So, my point is, it's not like God didn't foresee this division in the True Presence of the Eucharist. It started that very day.
60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you that do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. 65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." 66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. 67 Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also wish to go away?" 68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God
Many of even the ones close to Jesus had trouble understanding that He is the bread of life- the flesh- so Jesus made it clear, and many disciples left.
So, my point is, it's not like God didn't foresee this division in the True Presence of the Eucharist. It started that very day.
Veep,
The only thing that closely resembles omnipresence are gravitrons. They are massless sub-atomic particles not restrained by the speed of light because of their lack of mass.
If you want to say that God is gravitrons, that's an interesting hypothesis. Write it up.
The only thing that closely resembles omnipresence are gravitrons. They are massless sub-atomic particles not restrained by the speed of light because of their lack of mass.
If you want to say that God is gravitrons, that's an interesting hypothesis. Write it up.
I shall consult my science text in the morning, and we will collaborate. Perhaps a breakthrough is on the horizon.
Will you help me?
Will you help me?
My dear, nothing would suit me finer.
quote:Originally posted by INVICTUS:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by INVICTUS:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by themax:
Bill believe it or not ,a lot of Christians that are not Catholics actually believe the Bible. Matt. 26:26-27-28 ......Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to his disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is my body" 27-28 And He took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sin"
So, Max, Do YOU believe in transubstantiation, that the wafer actually becomes the human body of Jesus Christ -- and that the juice actually becomes the human blood of Jesus Christ? God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill
Bill Gray, So what your saying is Jesus can't do what he says he can. you don't believe God can place his essence in a stupid wafer? He's God and he hasn't lied yet. Not in the Bible that I know of.
Hi Vic, Just what do YOU mean when you say "God can place His essence in a stupid wafer"?
What do YOU mean by "His essence"? I just want to makes sure we are on the same page and same meaning.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill
Hi Bill,
The only essence I know of would be the most important part of it. The inherent element that makes it what it is, In this case the spiritual supernatural being of the person Jesus Christ. It sounds funny when you talk about real body and blood. I'm not Catholic yet, But I have come is believe it's an actural moment for Jesus to touch my soul. One of the best things he did for all of us.
Hi Vic,
I am not sure what you mean by an "actural" moment. But, if you mean that this is a "spiritual moment" for you -- we do not have to eat the body and drink the blood, literally, to be spiritually close to Jesus Christ. Some times I feel such a moment when we are singing a Christian song which speaks to my heart and the Holy Spirit touches my soul. At times like this, I choke up, often tears in my eyes, and cannot continue singing. Other times, when I watch a beautiful young child at play -- I can stand and watch the beauty of God within this child. That is a special "spiritual moment."
There are times when I am reading my Bible and, suddenly, a passage is illuminated which before had not been clear to me. I have heard many Holy Spirit blessed sermon messages which truly touched my heart.
All of these are "spiritual moments" for me when I strongly feel the presence of God around me. And, I will say that, at communion, most often I will feel one of those special "spiritual moments." But, none of this, in any way, relates to eating the actual body and drinking the actual blood of Jesus Christ.
To the best of my understanding, when Roman Catholics speak of the "essence of Christ" in the elements -- they are speaking of the wafer actually becoming the physical human body of Christ. About a month ago, I forwarded an article to VP showing photos of a priest giving communion to a nun -- and it showed her with actual raw meat in her mouth. Now, that, my Friend, is gross.
Yes, Jesus Christ dying on the cross to offer salvation to all who will, by grace, through faith -- believe and receive it -- is the most wonderful of gifts. But, He resurrected and ascended into heaven. He is not still hanging on a cross. Nor is He spreading His body out for billions of people to eat every week. He is in heaven, at the right hand of God the Father, interceding for all Christian believers. And, He will come to Rapture His church -- and then, seven years later, He will come again, His Second Coming, to establish His Millennial Kingdom on earth. He is not lunch!
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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.[/QUOTE]
He is not lunch!
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill[/QUOTE]
Was that an attempt at humor or are you really that ignorant?
He is not lunch!
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill[/QUOTE]
Was that an attempt at humor or are you really that ignorant?
Since a sense of humor doesn't seem to be part of his make up I am going to have to go with your other observation.
quote:Was that an attempt at humor or are you really that ignorant?
assuming it was BG that said that, yes- go for the latter.
He has no respect for the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Sad that one can disagree, but have to take it one step further to denegration.....
You know, I'm just guessing, but making a joke about the Lords Supper, might not be the best way to get on the good side of God.
quote:Originally posted by smokey1:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Yes, Jesus Christ dying on the cross to offer salvation to all who will, by grace, through faith -- believe and receive it -- is the most wonderful of gifts. But, He resurrected and ascended into heaven. He is not still hanging on a cross. Nor is He spreading His body out for billions of people to eat every week. He is in heaven, at the right hand of God the Father, interceding for all Christian believers. And, He will come to Rapture His church -- and then, seven years later, He will come again, His Second Coming, to establish His Millennial Kingdom on earth. He is not lunch!
Was that an attempt at humor or are you really that ignorant?
Hi Smoky,
You say that I am ignorant? What would you call a priest and a nun who pose the nun with raw meat in her mouth -- AND the people who believe this raw meat is actually part of the human body of Jesus Christ?
This was supposedly a miracle. Yet, the priest and nun "just happened" to have cameras rolling -- at just the right time to catch this miracle on video. Now, how convenient -- OR PLANNED - is that?
Check out this URL link: http://www.najumary.or.kr/mary...t-2010/2010-2-28.htm
If you believe this is real -- I have some $2 bills I will sell you real cheap -- and a bridge in Brooklyn which I can get really cheap for you.
Why don't we just stick to discussing the real miracle of Jesus Christ -- that He was born of the virgin Mary; died on the cross to "pay in full" our sin debt to God -- and through this death He offers the "free gift" of salvation to all who will, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, believe and receive the wonderful gift; that He was resurrected and ascended into heaven -- where He is continually interceding for all Christian believers -- the ONLY Mediator between God and man. That, my Friend, is the real miracle -- not some priest and nun staging a floor show for the cameras.
If you want to discuss miracles -- the Bible is full or real miracles. Let's talk about them -- and not man-made miracles and traditions made from the Vatican throne room. There is only one real throne room -- and God still occupies it, not the pope.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by smokey1:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Yes, Jesus Christ dying on the cross to offer salvation to all who will, by grace, through faith -- believe and receive it -- is the most wonderful of gifts. But, He resurrected and ascended into heaven. He is not still hanging on a cross. Nor is He spreading His body out for billions of people to eat every week. He is in heaven, at the right hand of God the Father, interceding for all Christian believers. And, He will come to Rapture His church -- and then, seven years later, He will come again, His Second Coming, to establish His Millennial Kingdom on earth. He is not lunch!
Was that an attempt at humor or are you really that ignorant?
Hi Smoky,
You say that I am ignorant? What would you call a priest and a nun who pose the nun with raw meat in her mouth -- AND the people who believe this raw meat is actually part of the human body of Jesus Christ?
This was supposedly a miracle. Yet, the priest and nun "just happened" to have cameras rolling -- at just the right time to catch this miracle on video. Now, how convenient -- OR PLANNED - is that?
Check out this URL link: http://www.najumary.or.kr/mary...t-2010/2010-2-28.htm
If you believe this is real -- I have some $2 bills I will sell you real cheap -- and a bridge in Brooklyn which I can get really cheap for you.
Why don't we just stick to discussing the real miracle of Jesus Christ -- that He was born of the virgin Mary; died on the cross to "pay in full" our sin debt to God -- and through this death He offers the "free gift" of salvation to all who will, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, believe and receive the wonderful gift; that He was resurrected and ascended into heaven -- where He is continually interceding for all Christian believers -- the ONLY Mediator between God and man. That, my Friend, is the real miracle -- not some priest and nun staging a floor show for the cameras.
If you want to discuss miracles -- the Bible is full or real miracles. Let's talk about them -- and not man-made miracles and traditions made from the Vatican throne room. There is only one real throne room -- and God still occupies it, not the pope.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Do you have any idea what little, if any, credibility you have on this forum? And it's stupid comments about other peoples churches that reveal just what a small, self righteous man you really are.
quote:you believe this is real -- I have some $2 bills I will sell you real cheap -- and a bridge in Brooklyn which I can get really cheap for you.
Whatcha asking for those 2 dollar bills, Bill?
I might take you up on those.
quote:Originally posted by themax:quote:you believe this is real -- I have some $2 bills I will sell you real cheap -- and a bridge in Brooklyn which I can get really cheap for you.
Whatcha asking for those 2 dollar bills, Bill?
I might take you up on those.
A BARGAIN! - ONLY $3.00 EACH!
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quote:Originally posted by smokey1:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by smokey1:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Yes, Jesus Christ dying on the cross to offer salvation to all who will, by grace, through faith -- believe and receive it -- is the most wonderful of gifts. But, He resurrected and ascended into heaven. He is not still hanging on a cross. Nor is He spreading His body out for billions of people to eat every week. He is in heaven, at the right hand of God the Father, interceding for all Christian believers. And, He will come to Rapture His church -- and then, seven years later, He will come again, His Second Coming, to establish His Millennial Kingdom on earth. He is not lunch!
Was that an attempt at humor or are you really that ignorant?
Hi Smoky,
You say that I am ignorant? What would you call a priest and a nun who pose the nun with raw meat in her mouth -- AND the people who believe this raw meat is actually part of the human body of Jesus Christ?
This was supposedly a miracle. Yet, the priest and nun "just happened" to have cameras rolling -- at just the right time to catch this miracle on video. Now, how convenient -- OR PLANNED - is that?
Check out this URL link: http://www.najumary.or.kr/mary...t-2010/2010-2-28.htm
If you believe this is real -- I have some $2 bills I will sell you real cheap -- and a bridge in Brooklyn which I can get really cheap for you.
Why don't we just stick to discussing the real miracle of Jesus Christ -- that He was born of the virgin Mary; died on the cross to "pay in full" our sin debt to God -- and through this death He offers the "free gift" of salvation to all who will, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, believe and receive the wonderful gift; that He was resurrected and ascended into heaven -- where He is continually interceding for all Christian believers -- the ONLY Mediator between God and man. That, my Friend, is the real miracle -- not some priest and nun staging a floor show for the cameras.
If you want to discuss miracles -- the Bible is full or real miracles. Let's talk about them -- and not man-made miracles and traditions made from the Vatican throne room. There is only one real throne room -- and God still occupies it, not the pope.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill
Do you have any idea what little, if any, credibility you have on this forum? And it's stupid comments about other peoples churches that reveal just what a small, self righteous man you really are.
Well, Smokey,
If refuting false teachings, false doctrines, makes me a small person -- all I can say in,"Praise God for Small People!"
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:all I can say in,"Praise God for Small People!"
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Glad you admitted it Billy. Now if you can just the meek part down, you might have a shot.
quote:Originally posted by themax:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
If refuting false teachings, false doctrines, makes me a small person -- all I can say is,"Praise God for Small People!"
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill
Glad you admitted it Billy. Now if you can just the meek part down, you might have a shot.
Yes, Max,
And, praise God for those who will post our full statement instead of cutting it to make it have a different meaning. One is quoting; the other is posting a false statement. Which are you guilty of doing?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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