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Hi to all my Forum Friends,

Today, in the TimesDaily Reader's Views section, a letter titled "Hate Is Immoral" from Jason S. Green of Killen, Alabama, was published. I would like to take a moment and examine the contents of Jason's letter. First, let me preface my comments by stating, unequivocally, that I agree with him that hatred of any kind is immoral -- and it is against the Word of God. God would have us hate no one. Yet, He does tell us to hate, with a righteous hatred, all immoral actions and immoral lifestyles.

Yes, I know that many who want to defend the homosexual lifestyle, same-sex marriages, and abortion -- will declare, "You cannot hate the lifestyle without hating the person!" Not true. You and I may be planning an evening out -- and you show up reeking of a strong perfume or a men's cologne which I find offensive. I hate the smell -- but, you are still my friend and I can enjoy your company. I may need to pray for a sinus blockage for the evening; but, I can still enjoy your company. Ergo, I hate the smell; but, love the person.

In the same way, God tells us in the Bible that He loves us, all of us, everyone in the world, so much -- that He sent His beloved Son to die in our place to pay our sin debt, a debt we could never pay. Yes, Jesus Christ died a cruel, painful, horrible death on the cross for one purpose: to make it possible for all people, i.e, "WHOEVER will believe in Him" -- to have forgiveness of his/her sin debt and gain eternal forgiveness, eternal life with God. Notice that God tells us WHOEVER. He does not say "only heterosexuals" -- nor does He say "only people who do good works." No, He says, "WHOEVER believes in Him shall NOT perish, but HAVE eternal life" (John 3:16).

We are told in 2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."

Yet, on the other hand, God does tell us that the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22); that it is detestable (Leviticus 20:13); that it is degrading, unnatural, an indecent act (Romans 1:26-27); that it is contrary to sound teaching (1 Timothy 1:10); and that those who live the homosexual lifestyle will not inherit the kingdom of God, i.e., will not spend eternity with God (1 Corinthians 6:9).

So, we can clearly see that, while God loves all people (John 3:16); He strongly dislikes, with a righteous hatred, all lifestyles which would pull people away from Him and cause them to lose eternal life in His presence. He created all people to share fellowship and love with Him; yet, He gave each of us the gift of "free will" that we might show our love for Him -- through making a personal choice to follow Him and to spend eternity with Him. This is what repentance is -- that we turn from following the destructive worldly lifestyles -- and to turn to follow Him.

So, with that qualification, let's examine Jason's letter:

Jason wrote, "I was disappointed to read the letter in which a writer blames Senate Democrats for 'holding hostage' a military spending bill by trying to lift the discriminatory 'don't ask, don't tell' ban on gays serving openly in the military. He then mentions 'furthering the gay agenda' and accuses liberals of 'standing for immorality.'

I have not read the letter to which Jason is referring; but, the issues I do understand. One of the most dishonest, destructive, and deceitful policies existing in the Senate and Congress today, is the ability to "piggy-back" unpopular bills and laws on other totally unrelated bills -- in a dishonest attempt to compromise and sneak through bills they know the public, you and me, do not want.

This is a perfect example of that practice. We all know that our military desperately needs funding to provide the supplies and materials needed to protect the lives of our young military people and to bring a quicker end to the armed hostilities. Yet, those wishing to push "open homosexuality" upon the military -- refuse to approve the necessary funding so needed by our military -- unless the law to allow open homosexuality in the military is also tacked onto the funding bill and approved with it.

In other words, our distinguished Liberal leaders are saying to us, "We don't care how many Americans are killed in battle because they do not have the needed supplies! If you will not allow open homosexuality in the military -- then, let them all be killed!" In other words, the Liberal congressmen and senators are holding the lives of our military people hostage -- to gain their homosexual agenda. That is wrong! That is abominable! And, it should be made criminal! Congress and the Senate should NOT be allowed to hold the lives of our young military people hostage -- to gain their homosexual agenda!

And, from a personal view, I can attest to the fact that having open homosexuality in the military would create a very negative environment -- at a time when everyone should be standing together. To put it more bluntly, in the military, when going in harm's way and a squad member tells you, "I have your back" -- it is comforting to know that he means, "I have your back" -- not "I am checking out your backside!"

Then, Jason tells us, "The only agenda I am aware of gays having is the same agenda women and African-Americans had in the 1950s and '60s: equality and freedom from discrimination."

This is not only dishonest and untrue; but, it is an blatant insult to every African-American and woman in America. We are born within our different racial, or ethnic, families. We are born male or female. But, NO ONE is born a homosexual. There is no "gay gene." You can twist and spin Biblical truths -- but, one cannot twist scientific facts. And, the scientific fact is that, try as they may, no scientist has ever discovered a "gay gene."

All people are born with a clean slate, pure and clean. Then, life begins to write upon our slate -- some good, some bad; some encouraging, some discouraging; some moral, some immoral. Everything that happens in our lives, starting with, or before, birth -- and especially in the first years as a baby, a toddler, a young child, a youth, and into young adulthood -- all write upon the slate of our lives. And, what is written will guide the path we take in life. This is fact; a "gay gene" is not.

Yes, women had and have a right to equality with no discrimination. Yes, our fellow Americans whose ancestors came, not from Europe, but, from other nations, Africa, Asia, or wherever -- have a right to equality with no discrimination. But, for the gay activist to make the blatant attempt to ride their struggles piggy-back -- in their misguided homosexual agenda attempt to change the moral laws of America -- is wrong and an insult to those people -- and to all Americans.

Next, Jason continues this piggy-back logic, "The military's policy is blatantly discriminatory toward gays. It seems that just like the freeing of slaves, the integration of our schools, and acceptance of equal rights for women, we will drag the church kicking and screaming again into the world of change. We cannot continue to try to define a 21st-century world with a 1st-century book written by uneducated men who thought the sun revolved around a flat earth at the center of a still universe. It is clear to me that discrimination, hate and intolerance of alternative lifestyles is what is immoral."

Now, the truth begins to rise to the surface. Looking beyond Jason's, and the homosexual activists', attempts to ride the backs of African-Americans and women; people who had a legitimate problem with segregation and discrimination -- Jason is finally focusing on his true target: the Christian church and the Christian Bible.

He tells us that "modern society" is going to drag the Christian church, kicking and screaming, into a "world of change." That, my Friends, is the crux, the essence, of the whole issue, i.e, do not ask society to adapt to God's Word -- but, adapt the Bible, God's Word, to fit the desires and morals of the pagan "new world" modern society.

Then, Jason gets to the old worn out excuse used by every atheist, secularist, and non-believer who will not accept being accountable to God, because they want to be accountable only to their own gods, themselves. Their tactic: when all else fails; start declaring that the Bible is just a book of myths written by uneducated men thousands of years ago.

Yet, what they will not, or cannot, see because of their spiritual blindness -- is that the Bible is the only sacred text which is unquestionably validated -- by prophecy, by science, i.e., archeology, and by both religious and secular historians.

By prophecy: over 1800 prophecies written in the Bible -- and, ALL have been fulfilled as prophesied. The only prophecies left to be fulfilled are those surrounding the End Times and the return of Jesus Christ. Over 1800 prophecies fulfilled! No other book, or person, can make that proven claim. 100% accuracy.

The Bible is proven by archeology: Literally thousands of archeological finds have proven the Bible to be true. Not one single archeological find has proven the Bible to be wrong. 100% accuracy.

The Bible is proven by historical documents: Over 24,000 existing manuscripts or partial manuscripts of Biblical books exist today. The book of Isaiah was written about seven hundred years before Christ. The copy of the book of Isaiah stored in the Qumran caves at least one hundred years before Jesus Christ, and discovered in 1947-48, is virtually identical to the book of Isaiah found in our Bibles today. And, many early historians, both secular and religious, have written of Biblical events which have been proven to have occurred as written.

No, the Bible was not written by a bunch of illiterate tribesmen; nor by a bunch of people trying to push their particular political agendas, as our atheist and secularist Friends will accuse. The Bible was authored by God Himself. Under the supernatural inspiration of the Holy Spirit, 40 men, in diverse geographical locations, over a period of 1600 years -- wrote the revelations given to them by God. Did He dictate every word? No, the men all wrote using their own styles, in their own cultures -- but, guided, word by word, by the Holy Spirit. So, yes, the Bible was written exactly as God wanted it written.

And, further proof of the Holy Spirit inspiration of the Bible is that those books written by 40 men, living in many different geographical locations, over a period of 1600 years -- all have one unified theme: Jesus Christ and the salvation He offers to all mankind. The Bible is truly the Written Word of God -- and is God's full revelation to man for our salvation and to guide us in our Christian lives.

Jason declares, "It is clear to me that discrimination, hate, and intolerance of alternative lifestyles is what is immoral."

This is the "catch all" phrase used by the Liberal Left, atheists, secularist, and all vanilla flavored non-believers -- all who are the most "intolerant" people on the planet -- "discrimination, hate, and intolerance." You might say this is their mantra and their anthem all rolled into one neat little package of intolerant accusation. Why? Well, we have all heard the old maxim, "The best defense is a strong offense!" And, who is more "offensive" than those who are trying to push their immoral lifestyles and intolerance upon a Christian society?

Jason tells us, "What people do in the bedroom is not the business of those who would try to police it with an ancient text that also commands parents to kill children who back talk, requires stoning of those who commit adultery, and warns against the mixing of wool and linen when making clothes."

Once again, what Jason is saying when he quotes the atheist gurus and Liberal Left geniuses -- is that, "I have no valid defense of my belief in the homosexual lifestyle -- so, I will go back to attacking the Bible, the bedrock of the Christian society." In other words, become very "offensive" as a strong defense! Jason, if you were the Defensive Coordinator for the Alabama Crimson Tide football team; our team would lose every game -- with opponents scoring over 100 points in every game.

Finally, Jason declares, "The sooner the church stops spewing a doctrine of hate and intolerance from the pulpit, the sooner we can learn to truly love our neighbor and to be tolerant of people who are born a little different than ourselves. Jason S. Green, Killen."

This is the kind of thinking found in the Liberal Left, and their courts, which allows a burglar, when injured breaking into a person's home -- to sue the homeowner for damages.

This is the kind of thinking found in the Liberal Left, and their courts, which allows homeowners to be sued when neighborhood kids climb over his safety fence and are injured illegally swimming in his pool -- or when bitten by his dog after they climb his security fence. This is the kind of "intolerance" Jason is describing. In other words, how dare we stand up for morality and for a moral society.

We have laws which say that same-sex marriage is immoral and wrong; just as we have laws which say that pedophilia, bestiality, and bigamy are wrong. Yet, the homosexuals want "special laws" written just for them declaring their lifestyle to be normal.

And, because the Bible clearly declares their lifestyle to be an abomination, detestable, degrading, unnatural, an indecent act, and contrary to sound teaching -- they attack the Bible. Isn't this much like the burglar who breaks into your home -- and then sues you for the injury his illegal act caused?

Do the homosexuals have the same rights as you and me? Yes, they are free to marry anyone, of the opposite sex, they desire -- or who will have them. You say this is not equal rights? Then, why can't Farmer John sue because we tell him he cannot marry his pet sheep? Why cannot the child predator sue because we tell him/her that he cannot marry the six year old child he loves?

Our society puts teachers and priest in jail for having sexual relations with young kids. Why are the homosexuals not screaming, "Intolerance!" when this happens? After all, shouldn't a pedophile have the same legal rights as a homosexual?

My Friends, this letter is just more of the Liberal Left sponsored and supported empty rhetoric -- in their attempt to remold God into the image of man's desires and morals in his pagan, worldly society. We do not mold God to fit an immoral society; we mold that society to fit God, to live under His proven Word.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
If Jason believes blacks and women are not discriminated against still today, he needs to look farther than the 'proverbial closet'.

Hi B,

I will agree with you that we in America still need to do a lot of "attitude adjustment." But, here in the California Political arena -- women are holding their own.

I am voting for a woman to be governor; I am voting to kick out one woman senator and elect another woman senator. And, unless there are major changes -- I will be a Palin supporter in 2012.

Yet, I do agree with you that across the board, we still have a ways to go to defeat discrimination.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
If Jason believes blacks and women are not discriminated against still today, he needs to look farther than the 'proverbial closet'.

Hi B,

I will agree with you that we in America still need to do a lot of "attitude adjustment." But, here in the California Political arena -- women are holding their own.

I am voting for a woman to be governor; I am voting to kick out one woman senator and elect another woman senator. And, unless there are major changes -- I will be a Palin supporter in 2012.

Yet, I do agree with you that across the board, we still have a ways to go to defeat discrimination.



suckup
quote:
Originally posted by Kraven:

suckup

LOL Kraven Bill also forgot he had me promise not to talk to him.

quote:
Bill Gray
Posted 08 October 2010 01:01 AM

quote:
:
Originally posted by b50m:
Yes Bill, they do. You are an ass. Plain and simple. Everything I said about you is being proven. Get back on the white horse Bill, there are some homos and atheist you need to slay. I'm through talking to you.



CAN I HAVE YOUR PROMISE ON THAT?



quote:
b50m

Absolutely Bill. These are my final words.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
In other words, the Liberal congressmen and senators are holding the lives of our military people hostage -- to gain their homosexual agenda. That is wrong! That is abominable! And, it should be made criminal! Congress and the Senate should NOT be allowed to hold the lives of our young military people hostage -- to gain their homosexual agenda!


Your insanity knows no bounds

quote:
And, from a personal view, I can attest to the fact that having open homosexuality in the military would create a very negative environment -- at a time when everyone should be standing together. To put it more bluntly, in the military, when going in harm's way and a squad member tells you, "I have your back" -- it is comforting to know that he means, "I have your back" -- not "I am checking out your backside!"


And either a plain old homophobe, or in the closet....which is usually one in the same.


quote:
Do the homosexuals have the same rights as you and me? Yes, they are free to marry anyone, of the opposite sex, they desire -- or who will have them. You say this is not equal rights? Then, why can't Farmer John sue because we tell him he cannot marry his pet sheep? Why cannot the child predator sue because we tell him/her that he cannot marry the six year old child he loves?


It makes me sick when I read one of you religious nuts spouting this kind of warped thinking. Bill most NORMAL people see one very HUGE difference in these cases....its called a victim. Having sex with children and animals is not only horribly disgusting but also nothing even close to 2 GROWN men or women having sex or wanting to share their lives together. If you can't see what the difference is here then you should not be allowed around children or animals.

quote:
Our society puts teachers and priest in jail for having sexual relations with young kids. Why are the homosexuals not screaming, "Intolerance!" when this happens? After all, shouldn't a pedophile have the same legal rights as a homosexual?


Why would they be screaming intolerance when someone has victimized a child?!?!?! And no a pedophile should not be given ANY rights as far as I am concerned. What does homosexuality and child molestation have in common to you Bill. It is a very sick and twisted argument you present here. I can not get my mind around how you equate the two. I guess I am just not as sick as you.

I thought Jason's letter was spot on. Homosexuals only want the same rights heterosexuals have. We can marry who ever we want. They can not. You may say they can marry anyone of the opposite sex, but how would you like it if that were reversed? You can marry anyone you like as long as it is a man. I don't know....you might not truly have a problem with that. Something tells me it might just be jealousy on your part Bill. This generation of homosexuals are fighting for their rights and freedoms in ways your generation could/would not. Does it make you angry that you didn't have the same opportunities to be open as these people do?
Hi Jan,

In my earlier post, I asked the question, "Our society puts teachers and priest in jail for having sexual relations with young kids. Why are the homosexuals not screaming, "Intolerance!" when this happens? After all, shouldn't a pedophile have the same legal rights as a homosexual?"

And, you reply, "Why would they be screaming intolerance when someone has victimized a child? And no a pedophile should not be given ANY rights as far as I am concerned. What does homosexuality and child molestation have in common to you Bill. It is a very sick and twisted argument you present here. I can not get my mind around how you equate the two. I guess I am just not as sick as you."

Jan, if you recall, a large percentage of the priests who molested children did so in a homosexual relationship -- man on young boy. So, does homosexuality and child molestation often go hand in hand? Yes, it does.

I have shared before on the Religion Forum about having a homosexual try to lure me into his hotel in Sheffield. One evening, I was hitch hiking from Florence to Sheffield and this guy in a new Buick gave me a ride. When we got to Sheffield, he drove to the Sheffield Hotel where he was obviously staying. As we were getting out of his car; he propositioned me; trying to get me into the hotel. I was a young boy and this scared the bejibbers out of me. Let me tell you; I set a track record running from the Sheffield Hotel on Montgomery Avenue to the Pool Hall across from the Colbert Theater.

Later, playing varsity basketball for Sheffield High, we played a game with a school in another Shoals area city. After the game, when I had showered and returned to the gym -- our coach was talking with the principal of that school. It was the same homosexual who had tried to lure me into the Sheffield Hotel.

As an adult, I realize now that I should have told Coach Collins; but, as a young boy I was afraid. Yet, over the years, I have often thought -- if he tried this with me -- how many other kids was he successful in seducing; how many young boys' lives did he destroy because he was a homosexual principal of that high school? Yes, I feel guilty for not speaking out then. Maybe I could have saved some kid from being lured into his web of homosexuality.

Are all homosexuals predators? No. But, in inordinate percentage do seem to be. Visit any city which hosts a military training base or, most likely, even a college -- a place where young people are in the world on their own for the first time -- and you will find homosexuals swarming like flies.

When I went through Electronic/Radar Tech School in Denver; a base where thousands of young boys were stationed -- you would not believe the brazen attitude of the homosexual community attracted to Denver because of this young population. Let me give you an example -- and this is in no way an exaggeration. The bus to the Air Base stopped running at 10:00 PM. If a young Airman was on the bus stop and had missed the bus -- no problem, cars of homosexuals were literally lined up trying to give the young man a ride.

I have walked the seven miles from downtown to the Air Base in the winter -- because I did not want to get into a car with several homosexuals. And, by the time I got to the base, my hands were so cold that I could not get my ID card out of my wallet to show the Air Police at the gate. But, that was much better than fighting off gays in a car.

So, I do not know your personal involvement with gays and lesbians; and I will admit that not all are predators -- but, please do not try to tell me that homosexuality is harmless. The large number of priests and other homosexual predators show otherwise.

Then, you say, "I thought Jason's letter was spot on. Homosexuals only want the same rights heterosexuals have. We can marry who ever we want. They can not."

And, Farmer John cannot marry his pet sheep. And, a bigamist cannot marry six wives, And, a pedophile cannot marry a six year old child. But, any of these people do have the right to marry within our existing laws. However, we are not going to make special laws just to accommodate their worldly, immoral lifestyle.

Next, you declare, "You may say they can marry anyone of the opposite sex, but how would you like it if that were reversed? You can marry anyone you like as long as it is a man. I don't know....you might not truly have a problem with that. Something tells me it might just be jealousy on your part Bill. This generation of homosexuals are fighting for their rights and freedoms in ways your generation could/would not. Does it make you angry that you didn't have the same opportunities to be open as these people do?"

As usual, when Liberals and Gay Activists do not have a valid response, cannot justify their demands that society should adjust to the homosexual lifestyle -- you begin personal attacks; first on the Bible, then on individuals who show you the error of your thinking.

Sorry, Jan, I have never had a problem with my sexuality. And, since 1987, I have had not had any problem with my spiritual life. So, just go ahead and throw your insults and rhetoric against the wall to see if it sticks. It doesn't. Those attempts just make you look small and inept.

The homosexual lifestyle is wrong. By society's standards; it is wrong -- and by Biblical standards it is wrong. Why do you think that same-sex marriage continues to be voted down by the voters in California? It is not because all those who voted against same-sex marriage are Christians. I would say a large percentage of those who voted against same-sex marriage were not Christians. Yet, even they realized that same-sex marriage, open homosexuality -- is like a cancer left untreated; it will metastasize and spread, corrupting all aspects of our society.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:So, does homosexuality and child molestation often go hand in hand? Yes, it does.


"Often" How about some actual data? You know... reality?

Hmm. I see something in your other quote that needs fixing (assuming the story is even true):

quote:
.. how many young boys' lives did he destroy because he was a homosexual child molesting sexual predator principal of that high school? Yes, I feel guilty for not speaking out then. Maybe I could have saved some kid from being lured into his web of homosexuality sexually molested.


There you go, fixed it for you.

quote:

Are all homosexuals predators? No. But, in inordinate percentage do seem to be.


Riiiiight. Again, you see, there's this thing called 'reality'. How about some actual data?

(Ignoring anecdotal hogwash.)

quote:
And, Farmer John cannot marry his pet sheep.


Blah blah blah... Say it with me everyone: Informed Willing Consent. Not a difficult concept.
is this not an advocation of slavery:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


or this?:

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)


or:

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


child abuse:

Prov.13 [24] He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Prov.23 [13] Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. [14] Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.


genocide:

Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I am driving out from before you the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst. But you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (For you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.)
Exodus, Chapter 34, verses 11-14

You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you. Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight; your enemies shall fall by the sword before you. For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you. You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.
Leviticus, Chapter 26, verses 7-9


so bill it is a contradiction to say "use the bible as a moral guideline" and to say " dont use a book that advocates these things"
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Perhaps the reason why the USA has one of the highest crime rates and highest divorce rates in the First World is because we have adopted the Bible as our moral guide.

Time to let it go and decide morality through discussion, philosophy, justice, and empathy.

nsns


Perfectly stated.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
but really, should a book that sdvocates slavery, child abuse, hatred and genocide be our moral guideline?

NO - BUT THE BIBLE SHOULD BE YOUR MORAL GUIDE!


Since you quoted Old Testament for justifications for discriminating against homosexuals, then you must hold true to all morals & commandments put forth in the Old Testament. You know as well as I do that you cannot pick & choose those passages that you wish to follow (or enforce) & those you wish to ignore. Would you like me to continue with this train of thought? I didn't think so.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
All of those come from the Old Testament, that is, the Jewish Torah.

Did the Hebrew law at the time state those things, yes, it did. We do not follow Hebrew law now.


Are these things commanded by this god, or are they not? Did it sanction genocide, rape, slavery, and murder, or didn't it? If so, why would you want to worship it as the master of anything remotely moral?
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Perhaps the reason why the USA has one of the highest crime rates and highest divorce rates in the First World is because we have adopted the Bible as our moral guide.

Time to let it go and decide morality through discussion, philosophy, justice, and empathy.

nsns


Absolutely brilliant statement.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
All of those come from the Old Testament, that is, the Jewish Torah.

Did the Hebrew law at the time state those things, yes, it did. We do not follow Hebrew law now.


b,

luv ya, but like he11 they did. The morality of the OT is an evil mixture of revelation from a cruel god and ignorant folklore.

Why is it immoral to mix dairy and meat products? Your bible makes a cheeseburger a sin.

The OT condones slavery, genocide, filicide, rape, the oppression of women, and a dozen other compliments I could pay it.

The moral environment, the Zeitgeist if you will, has progressed to the better since then, but those who cling to ancient superstition are prevented from joining contemporary society in any meaningful way.

It is particularly regrettable that the South cannot see its way clear of that disgusting tradition, and the fruits of that intransigence should be obvious.


nsns
Yes, the OT does. That is why we don't follow the OT any more.
Whether you wish to believe or not is your prerogative.

Science kills animals, embryos, cells, etc. everyday to benefit mankind. Non-scientific people would call that a cruel and ignorant process.

Mankind has 'evolved' from Adam and Eve and it has been a painful process.

The fact that we look on those things now as being wrong proves that we have learned the lesson.

And if you are going to lump the entire "South" together, then I will lump all of California into the Bill Gray group.
You don't follow the OT anymore?

No Ten Commandments? No Flood?

Then what is the source of your morals?

Do you admit that most of the "history" of the OT is fiction?

Surveys indicate that the Deep South is about 80% Fundevangelical. No survey indicates that California has anything at all to do with Gray, except a tendency toward random eccentricity.

Experimentation on animals may be cruel, and that is now taken into account, but it is by no means ignorant.


nsns
quote:
Originally posted by HoldenMyOwn:
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
Perhaps the reason why the USA has one of the highest crime rates and highest divorce rates in the First World is because we have adopted the Bible as our moral guide.

Time to let it go and decide morality through discussion, philosophy, justice, and empathy.

nsns

Perfectly stated.

DEEP, ARE YOU TALKING TO YOURSELF AGAIN?

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@ Bill Gray

You make me what to have homosexual sex with Men just to go againts every word you wrote.

If i was bored and had no life, which i think may be your case, i could sit here and find all kinds of passages in the bible, twist them to make my point, and feel self righteuos about my point of view.

I stopped reading your BS when you began using homosexual and pediophile, child molestation in the same sentence.

PLUS, you have no proof, at all, that the bible is gods word. How do you know that Satan, the master deceiver, didn't write is just to fool all those poor brainwashed people who still follow the old book?

How do you brainwash millions into believing in the bible? You tell the that god is real, from the time they are able to understand, and tell them to never go againts what is written. They do it with Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc. Then, when the time is right, they tell the child the truth, they are not real!
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
Just reading the post of all of you, I can just imagine the hate Bill is spewing now.
Put him on ignore, it will make your day go alot better. Smiler


Evil prevails when good men do nothing. While Bill isn't evil, his ideas certainly are wicked and immoral. I'll put up with the nonsense just to provide a little reality. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Hybrid:
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
Just reading the post of all of you, I can just imagine the hate Bill is spewing now.
Put him on ignore, it will make your day go alot better. Smiler


Evil prevails when good men do nothing. While Bill isn't evil, his ideas certainly are wicked and immoral. I'll put up with the nonsense just to provide a little reality. Smiler


Hy,

Maybe you aren't aware of billgrays intentions. The boy is evil.
quote:
Originally posted by HoldenMyOwn:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
DEEP, ARE YOU TALKING TO YOURSELF AGAIN?

Most people know who I am given that my user name incorporates my real name. And no, I am not Deep Fat. I'm glad that closed minded sheep like yourself are slowly becoming a thing of the past.

Hi Holden,

Actually, you have this a wee bit confused. Christian believers truly are becoming the focus of more secular, atheist, and worldly hatred. God tells us this will happen, in the book you seem to want to ignore.

Or are you only a Liberal who wants to adapt the Bible to fit the world's desires and rules?

However, rather than Christian believers becoming a thing of the past -- Christian believers are the ONLY ones with a future -- an eternal future in the presence of God.

The rest; well, let's just leave it that, those who deny Him will NOT spend eternity in His presence. And, shucks, that only leaves one other place for them to spend eternity. I will leave that for you to ponder.

By the way, welcome to the Religion Forum. What religion do you practice?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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